BTW - sure you should learn Navajo, as well as Spanish and any other language you can immerse yourself in. I think it was Hegel that said that "when you learn a culture's language, you take it's soul". This was meant in a very positive way, meaning that you never truly understand a culture unil you learn its language. Anyone who has learned another language and then visited the "parent" country knows what I'm talking about.
BTW - sure you should learn Navajo, as well as Spanish and any other language you can immerse yourself in. I think it was Hegel that said that "when you learn a culture's language, you take it's soul". This was meant in a very positive way, meaning that you never truly understand a culture unil you learn its language. Anyone who has learned another language and then visited the "parent" country knows what I'm talking about.
interesting...
i would really like to be bilingual and quite frankly wish spanish was a core class from K-12 for me... seems more valuable then Algrebra to my life at this point, thats for sure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEY_-t4wXik&feature=related
How about, the people coming to this country need to learn English?
WTF Obama. This fucking guy.
I agree its good for children to learn many languages but what he is saying is flat out fucked up.
Like I said in another thread, most europeans speak many languages b/c the countries over there are very small and close together like our states are.
Dumb ass Obama you fucker.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEY_-t4wXik&feature=related
How about, the people coming to this country need to learn English?
WTF Obama. This fucking guy.
I agree its good for children to learn many languages but what he is saying is flat out fucked up.
Like I said in another thread, most europeans speak many languages b/c the countries over there are very small and close together like our states are.
Dumb ass Obama you fucker.
okay with that logic we should all drop amerikin and learn Apache.
Obama's vision of the USA means that "typical white people" will be forced to send their children to schools that teach in ebonics, support the rhetoric of Rev. Wright, and insult everything this country is about.
Foreign language instruction is good, but we do it on our terms. European learn other languages, but they expect their language to be spoken in their nation out of respect.
When foreigners come to the USA and expect that we learn their language, they have things ass backwards. They learn our language, and then we consider learning theirs for our educational fulfillment - not because we HAVE to or else...
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEY_-t4wXik&feature=related
How about, the people coming to this country need to learn English?
WTF Obama. This fucking guy.
I agree its good for children to learn many languages but what he is saying is flat out fucked up.
Like I said in another thread, most europeans speak many languages b/c the countries over there are very small and close together like our states are.
Dumb ass Obama you fucker.
Are you SERIOUSLY comparing the United States of America to Europe?
Do you know one is a country and the other is a FUCKING continent! Of course, they are gonna speak many different languages in Europe b/c it's a continent.
Sure its a good thing. I totally agree but he is not making a point to tell immigrants to learn English, he is saying b/c they don't speak it that WE should learn their language. Not right IMO.
everyone else is learning English so why can't we learn other languages too.
He never even said we should learn a certain language. "Other languages" :rolleyes:
No. he is simply saying "come on over to my country and we will make you as comfortable as possible. We will put your language on everything we sell. If yuo buy a home appliance, it will come with 12 different direction books to make sure you are comfortable." Fuck that.
:eek: WOW! you are VERY delusional.
By the way I hope you stay in your house on Nov. 4th, we do not need any clueless votes.
Are you SERIOUSLY comparing the United States of America to Europe?
Do you know one is a country and the other is a FUCKING continent! Of course, they are gonna speak many different languages in Europe b/c it's a continent.
What is your argument here?
His argument is that Obama was comparing Europe to the United States, which, as you just said, is fucking stupid.
In Europe, you learn foreign languages pretty much by default. Odds are good you live within a couple hours of another country.
When's a guy in fucking Nebraska going to need to know French?
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
His argument is that Obama was comparing Europe to the United States, which, as you just said, is fucking stupid.
In Europe, you learn foreign languages pretty much by default. Odds are good you live within a couple hours of another country.
When's a guy in fucking Nebraska going to need to know French?
The Nebraska guy doesn't have to learn anything he doesn't want to learn, Obama is not ordering anybody to learn French or Spanish or whatever foreign language you can think. He's basically encouraging us to learn another language.
Maybe this is just a general observation here but the fact is most countries use English as their second language and many of them are coming up big on the economic world right now.
Ten years ago, no one even expected India to become a major player in the business world but now they are taken over a lot of our businesses. I'm not saying learning English was the big reason why they where they are right now but I'm sure English was a starting step for them.
Don't you think it's a good idea for us to learn other languages too to keep up in today's market.
The Nebraska guy doesn't have to learn anything he doesn't want to learn, Obama is not ordering anybody to learn French or Spanish or whatever foreign language you can think. He's basically encouraging us to learn another language.
I would say he's shaming us into wanting to learn another language. Which is something a bit different.
Hey, if you want to become fluent in German, go for it. More power to you. It's an admirable trait.
But don't talk down to me if I'd prefer to learn just enough Spanish to get me through high school. Especially if I live in Nebraska. I have enough problems, with all the erotic dreams about corn and such.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
I would say he's shaming us into wanting to learn another language. Which is something a bit different.
Hey, if you want to become fluent in German, go for it. More power to you. It's an admirable trait.
But don't talk down to me if I'd prefer to learn just enough Spanish to get me through high school. Especially if I live in Nebraska. I have enough problems, with all the erotic dreams about corn and such.
Why do you see his statement as "shaming" you?
The first thought to my mind was encouragement.
I'm not even talking down on the "Nebraska dream" at all, man.
I'm actually embarrassed that I'm only fluent in English. :( Making Euros would really sweet right now.
Like I said, learn whatever you want but don't blame your boss if he decides to take his company overseas for a smaller payroll to get a bigger profit with similar production.
How can it hurt to know some Spanish? It pretty much our our second language, and just about everyone else on our continent and its environs speaks it. I don't see it as a bad thing. Obama is saying he agrees immigrants should learn english too.
He also went on to say....
"We should understand that our young people, if you have a foreign language, that is a powerful tool to get a job. You are so much more employable. You can be part of international business. So we should be emphasizing foreign languages in our schools from an early age, because children will actually learn a foreign language easier when they're 5, or 6, or 7 than when they're 46, like me."
How can it hurt to know some Spanish? It pretty much our our second language, and just about everyone else on our continent and its environs speaks it. I don't see it as a bad thing. Obama is saying he agrees immigrants should learn english too.
He also went on to say....
"We should understand that our young people, if you have a foreign language, that is a powerful tool to get a job. You are so much more employable. You can be part of international business. So we should be emphasizing foreign languages in our schools from an early age, because children will actually learn a foreign language easier when they're 5, or 6, or 7 than when they're 46, like me."
I agree with Obama.
In principal, yeah. But our 5-year-olds are having enough trouble mastering the ins and outs of their native tongue (English).
To me, this is like trying to force a kid to learn differential calculus when he can barely add and subtract.
I guess I don't know what Barry is striving at here. If his point is that voluntarily learning a foreign language is a cool step that could produce rewards later in life ... well, thanks for the info. That's kind of a no-duh type of statement. I mean, who doesn't agree with that?
If his point is that Little Johnny should be forced to learn how to conjugate French verbs in the present perfect tense while in kindergarten ... then I don't know how realistic this is.
Either way, I'm not sure what campaign point he's trying to make, other than he's embarrased by us rubes who are only fluent in one language.
Also, didn't Kerry basically lose the last election because he came off as elitist and quasi-European? Barry's risking coming off the same with ideas like this.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
I think we should pick a national language and use it exclusively, but as to the question of whether everyone needs to learn it, that should be up to the individual.
One world language would be nicer.. It would avoid a lot of confusion.. I don't care what language it is. It will probably come one day..
In principal, yeah. But our 5-year-olds are having enough trouble mastering the ins and outs of their native tongue (English).
To me, this is like trying to force a kid to learn differential calculus when he can barely add and subtract.
I guess I don't know what Barry is striving at here. If his point is that voluntarily learning a foreign language is a cool step that could produce reawards later in life ... well, thanks for the info. That's kind of a no-duh type of statement. I mean, who doesn't agree with that?
If his point is that Little Johnny should be forced to learn how to conjugate French verbs in the present perfect tense while in kindergarten ... then I don't know how realistic this is.
Either way, I'm not sure what campaign point he's trying to make, other then he's embarrased by us rubes who are only fluent in one language.
Embarrasing was probably not the best choice of words. I agree that much. As stated in my post above, i have no problems with anything else that he said.
In principal, yeah. But our 5-year-olds are having enough trouble mastering the ins and outs of their native tongue (English).
To me, this is like trying to force a kid to learn differential calculus when he can barely add and subtract.
this is totally untrue.
on my recent holiday i spoke to the hotel rep guy who could speak 5 different languages. He said that in Bulgaria they teach English and Russian from a very early age... Holland does the same, as do the Scandinavian countries... in fact, in the western world its only really the UK and the US who dont... thats because we think everyone should learn our language... we're pompous that way
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Yes, many Europeans are required to learn another language during their school days. This does not mean they actually speak or know that language. How many Americans here took Spanish, French or German and hardly remember a word?
It's the same thing in Europe. Perhaps some words, phrases linger a little longer because we come into contact with those languages more often.
It is true that many Europeans speak or at least understand English. I think this is quite logical, English has become a worldwide lingua franca, through the media mostly (internet, tv and music).
In European countries where they subtitle American and English movies, you'll notice that the people understand English a lot better and speak it more fluently than for instance in Spain or Italy, where they dub.
I noticed many people here said they tried to speak the local language of the country they visit. That seems to contradict my own personal experience with (English speaking) tourists. I speak English and I don't expect a tourist to speak my language (which is only spoken by 23 million people). I also understand and speak a little German, again I don't expect native speakers of German to speak Dutch to me, I'll be glad to try and help them in German (I learnt it at school, I'm sure they didn't study Dutch). Same goes for French. The only thing that bothers me is that my country is bilingual (tri-lingual actually) but the French side rarely tries to speak Dutch and knows we will understand French and probably be able to utter a few words, at least the basics. And I don't fool myself, when I'm in a country where I don't speak the language, I don't try to speak their language, I try English and French. I don't consider saying "thank you" and "a beer" in their language as a real effort.
Someone already pointed this out. Many immigrants do speak English well, especially the second generation. A study here showed that Arabic kids were able to speak our language perfectly, without an accent. However, they rarely did. They used a mix of Arabic, local dialect and standard language... And why wouldn't they?
Comments
interesting...
i would really like to be bilingual and quite frankly wish spanish was a core class from K-12 for me... seems more valuable then Algrebra to my life at this point, thats for sure
¿que? ¿no comprendo?
Hank Hill
Hail, Hail!!!
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
up two streets, take a left...give them five bucks and tell them you know me...
Foreign language instruction is good, but we do it on our terms. European learn other languages, but they expect their language to be spoken in their nation out of respect.
When foreigners come to the USA and expect that we learn their language, they have things ass backwards. They learn our language, and then we consider learning theirs for our educational fulfillment - not because we HAVE to or else...
-Enoch Powell
How to fire a gun!
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
Do you know one is a country and the other is a FUCKING continent! Of course, they are gonna speak many different languages in Europe b/c it's a continent.
What is your argument here?
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
He never even said we should learn a certain language. "Other languages" :rolleyes:
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
By the way I hope you stay in your house on Nov. 4th, we do not need any clueless votes.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
His argument is that Obama was comparing Europe to the United States, which, as you just said, is fucking stupid.
In Europe, you learn foreign languages pretty much by default. Odds are good you live within a couple hours of another country.
When's a guy in fucking Nebraska going to need to know French?
for the least they could possibly do
when he visits a French restaurant?
I hear they've got a couple good ones in Omaha ...
for the least they could possibly do
Maybe this is just a general observation here but the fact is most countries use English as their second language and many of them are coming up big on the economic world right now.
Ten years ago, no one even expected India to become a major player in the business world but now they are taken over a lot of our businesses. I'm not saying learning English was the big reason why they where they are right now but I'm sure English was a starting step for them.
Don't you think it's a good idea for us to learn other languages too to keep up in today's market.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
I would say he's shaming us into wanting to learn another language. Which is something a bit different.
Hey, if you want to become fluent in German, go for it. More power to you. It's an admirable trait.
But don't talk down to me if I'd prefer to learn just enough Spanish to get me through high school. Especially if I live in Nebraska. I have enough problems, with all the erotic dreams about corn and such.
for the least they could possibly do
The first thought to my mind was encouragement.
I'm not even talking down on the "Nebraska dream" at all, man.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
Doesn't he actually use the word "embarrasing?"
for the least they could possibly do
Like I said, learn whatever you want but don't blame your boss if he decides to take his company overseas for a smaller payroll to get a bigger profit with similar production.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
He also went on to say....
"We should understand that our young people, if you have a foreign language, that is a powerful tool to get a job. You are so much more employable. You can be part of international business. So we should be emphasizing foreign languages in our schools from an early age, because children will actually learn a foreign language easier when they're 5, or 6, or 7 than when they're 46, like me."
I agree with Obama.
In principal, yeah. But our 5-year-olds are having enough trouble mastering the ins and outs of their native tongue (English).
To me, this is like trying to force a kid to learn differential calculus when he can barely add and subtract.
I guess I don't know what Barry is striving at here. If his point is that voluntarily learning a foreign language is a cool step that could produce rewards later in life ... well, thanks for the info. That's kind of a no-duh type of statement. I mean, who doesn't agree with that?
If his point is that Little Johnny should be forced to learn how to conjugate French verbs in the present perfect tense while in kindergarten ... then I don't know how realistic this is.
Either way, I'm not sure what campaign point he's trying to make, other than he's embarrased by us rubes who are only fluent in one language.
Also, didn't Kerry basically lose the last election because he came off as elitist and quasi-European? Barry's risking coming off the same with ideas like this.
for the least they could possibly do
this is totally untrue.
on my recent holiday i spoke to the hotel rep guy who could speak 5 different languages. He said that in Bulgaria they teach English and Russian from a very early age... Holland does the same, as do the Scandinavian countries... in fact, in the western world its only really the UK and the US who dont... thats because we think everyone should learn our language... we're pompous that way
It's the same thing in Europe. Perhaps some words, phrases linger a little longer because we come into contact with those languages more often.
It is true that many Europeans speak or at least understand English. I think this is quite logical, English has become a worldwide lingua franca, through the media mostly (internet, tv and music).
In European countries where they subtitle American and English movies, you'll notice that the people understand English a lot better and speak it more fluently than for instance in Spain or Italy, where they dub.
I noticed many people here said they tried to speak the local language of the country they visit. That seems to contradict my own personal experience with (English speaking) tourists. I speak English and I don't expect a tourist to speak my language (which is only spoken by 23 million people). I also understand and speak a little German, again I don't expect native speakers of German to speak Dutch to me, I'll be glad to try and help them in German (I learnt it at school, I'm sure they didn't study Dutch). Same goes for French. The only thing that bothers me is that my country is bilingual (tri-lingual actually) but the French side rarely tries to speak Dutch and knows we will understand French and probably be able to utter a few words, at least the basics. And I don't fool myself, when I'm in a country where I don't speak the language, I don't try to speak their language, I try English and French. I don't consider saying "thank you" and "a beer" in their language as a real effort.
Someone already pointed this out. Many immigrants do speak English well, especially the second generation. A study here showed that Arabic kids were able to speak our language perfectly, without an accent. However, they rarely did. They used a mix of Arabic, local dialect and standard language... And why wouldn't they?
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