I have to say, I'm basically with hippiemom. There are all kinds of theories for or against whomever, all with holes in them. I agree, there are many legitimate questions. And I fully support any and all questions. We can't afford to close our eyes and minds in these situations. Human nature dictates that if something is outside our bounds of what is plausible, we'll unconsciously blank out--ignore--information that is too horrible to consider. Due to this, we must endeavor all the more to move beyond our preconceptions and entertain all possibilities. Conspiracy theories stand until they are disproven, just like official reports must also be disproven. Point by point that is. Until then, these conflicting theories stand as valid possibilities. To dismiss a possibility that has not been specifically disproven is to shut down our own perception.
This is one of those situations where the truth might begin to reveal itself 20 years from now when the key players are considered unimportant and powerless. And when newer generations are not tied into the widespread acceptable social convention that dictates what we can and cannot accept at this time. By then the smoke just may clear and we most likely will have a fairly accurate idea of what has happened. At this point though, the varying theories that tie the facts together, to me, are just that.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Im not avoiding anything. I dont engage you in debate on subjects that you are stuck in your position on. You are stuck in virtually any argument that is the most critical of the United States and its government 100% of the time. So why should I waste my time debating with someone who never changes position. Id simply suggest to people interested in learning about the mistakes leading up to 9/11 and that occurred on that day to read the 9/11 report. If you are interested in debating this subject, and have not read it, it just shows me that you have not done your homework.
I'm simply raising questions here. And there are so many regarding 9/11 it beggars belief.
I definitely agree on the incompetence stuff. But the allegations of direct knowledge of the attacks before hand are hogwash.
This is your opinion, correct and not necessarily the truth? My understanding is that you have not proven the allegations as 'hogwash'. An assertion stands until proven otherwise. Keep in mind, I personally don't get behind allegations of direct, conscious, deliberate knowledge because I also see them as theoretical interpretation of the facts, imo.
And Im not posting any internet articles to support it. Im sure there are plenty of internet articles to support both sides. Ive read the 9/11 commission report and deem that a credible, critical analysis of what happened. It details many missed opportunities by both the Clinton and Bush administrations. Nothing in it suggests collaboration by anyone in our government for allowing 9/11 to happen. And that's all the information I need.
Are you then admitting that your criteria for accuracy is that it must fall within your own acceptable framework and therefore accuracy for you is akin to 'opinion'?
I ask this because you realize there is information out there that supports all sides. Therefore if you are just choosing one side, even when presented with conflicting evidence, then you are choosing based on personal preference, rather than undeniable proof. Also, to minimize alternative theories without proof is not factually accurate, either, but rather, again, opinion.
Doesn't it make more sense to while believing what you believe, to also keep your mind somewhat open?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Ravenna Seattle - are you a white supremist, or do you merely subscribe to their websites?? answer please
no ,and youre annoying ,but i think i know what youre refering to:the bradford smith iamthewitness site maybe -i think maybe he was thrown off gcnlive and yes he may be nuts ,i forgot ,but that doesnt mean i like him!!!!
is that what you mean? bradford smith?are you jewish? no im not anti semitic
A quote from 'The Project for the New American Century'
- from "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century," September, 2000.
"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor..."
Former 'Project for the New American Century' members include prominent members of the Republican Party and the Bush Administration, including Richard Armitage, William J. Bennett, Jeb Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Zalmay Khalilzad, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Richard Perle, former U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz.
Daryl Bradford Smith, French Connection he was on that show i think and i hated that show ..im pretty sure hes the same guy and if he is, hes nuts -he was banned off air and said he wanted to bring back the guilitene and have mass executions i think -maybe that was someone else on radio
as for me i dont know what i think who did 911 i just posted they are argeuing
but i know gov doesnt lie becuse im an indian and we smokum peace pipe and they give us white flour and ranicd coffee and slaughter buffalo
'The United States and it's Government'? How about dropping the 'United States' part?
because you don't seem to make distinction. yesterday you directly held everyone who voted for George Bush to blame for Iraq. so I think you have made your position against our government AND our people quite clear.
I'm simply raising questions here. And there are so many regarding 9/11 it beggars belief.
Fair enough. Im not debating the issue because I think it a moot point right now. All of these theories have been raised and investigated here. It's not like we don't have our share of conspiracy theorists in this country. I am not saying these views are impossible. Anything is possible. But I do believe the evidence of direct prior knowledge is tenuous. I agree that a high amount of negligence has been proven though.
why doesnt the moderator ban you for making personal attacks and lieing?where did i say im a racist or leave a link to a hate site?
Read the stuff you post. When you post links to conspiracy theorists who blame 9/11 on "zionists" repeatedly, you are making the supremacist argument, even if you did not intend to.
because you don't seem to make distinction. yesterday you directly held everyone who voted for George Bush to blame for Iraq. so I think you have made your position against our government AND our people quite clear.
They are partly to blame. If you vote for a neo-con frat boy then you are partly to blame for the consequences of his subsequent actions.
This is your opinion, correct and not necessarily the truth? My understanding is that you have not proven the allegations as 'hogwash'. An assertion stands until proven otherwise. Keep in mind, I personally don't get behind allegations of direct, conscious, deliberate knowledge because I also see them as theoretical interpretation of the facts, imo.
Are you then admitting that your criteria for accuracy is that it must fall within your own acceptable framework and therefore accuracy for you is akin to 'opinion'?
I ask this because you realize there is information out there that supports all sides. Therefore if you are just choosing one side, even when presented with conflicting evidence, then you are choosing based on personal preference, rather than undeniable proof. Also, to minimize alternative theories without proof is not factually accurate, either, but rather, again, opinion.
Doesn't it make more sense to while believing what you believe, to also keep your mind somewhat open?
I merely stated my opinion based on the information available. You are free to have a contrary opinion. Thats the point isnt it?
Im not debating the issue because I think it a moot point right now. All of these theories have been raised and investigated here. It's not like we don't have our share of conspiracy theorists in this country. I am not saying these views are impossible. Anything is possible. But I do believe the evidence of direct prior knowledge is tenuous. I agree that a high amount of negligence has been proven though.
I basically agree with this.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
The 9/11 commission members were appointed by George W. Bush, with input from Congress. Go figure.
the 9/11 commission was not solely appointed by bush and were independent and bipartisan. are you implied bush appointed all his buddies who would keep his involvement hush hush?
The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the 9-11 Commission), an independent, bipartisan commission created by congressional legislation and the signature of President George W. Bush in late 2002, is chartered to prepare a full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including preparedness for and the immediate response to the attacks. The Commission is also mandated to provide recommendations designed to guard against future attacks.
are you implied bush appointed all his buddies who would keep his involvement hush hush?
created by congressional legislation and the signature of President George W. Bush in late 2002,
Point one. Yes I am. Just as Blair appointed his own cronies to whitewash the investigation into the bogus Iraq intelligence dossier and the death of David Kelly.
Good point the video is not clear and in no part of it does it show a boeing 757.
And as that is the only prove of the plane hitting the pentagon because it also wierdly disapeared into pretty much thin air too, why would i believe it was flight 77?
Have you freeze framed the video in question and tried to make out what the object is?
i've looked at the video in question, but I haven't labored over it or pondered what the object could be.
here's why i believe it. flight 77 had lots of people on board. there were eyewitnessess who said they saw a plane fly into the pentagon. the people on board flight 77 haven't been seen since. That same day there were other planes that flew into buildings and another one that was hijacked over PA. Flight 77 had it's transmitter disconnected over WV/ohio and then a blip came on the radar a little later over DC. No wreckage was found in WV of a plane, there were no reports of an unidentified craft anywhere else along that flightplan. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that flight 77 did indeed hit the pentagon. Oh, and there are videos that show something flying into it.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
Oh, and there are videos that show something flying into it.
Yes something that looks nothing like a boeing 757.
I am pretty sure that if it was the plane you think it was they would happily release prof of it but they haven't, so i have no cause to believe it.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Yes something that looks nothing like a boeing 757.
I am pretty sure that if it was the plane you think it was they would happily release prof of it but they haven't, so i have no cause to believe it.
i was thinking about the capture rate of the footage and found this on the pop mechanics website: The bigger problem is that the footage suffers from a glacially slow frame rate: It moves at approximately 1 frame per second, while the plane--or what theorists insist was some sort of missile--hit the Pentagon traveling 780 ft. per second (more than 530 mph). At these camera angles, Flight 77 hardly registers on either film before a fireball erupts from the building."
To base anything off of something that is so undersampled is crazy. If I tried to base a claim in science using something that had a resolution of 1 Hz that needed something with a much higher resolution there's no way I'd be taken seriously. I just don't trust the video quality to make any sort of judegement on the video.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
Ignore this one if you want too but it has been in my head ever since I saw the first thread about this conspiracy and I have been dying to ask it.
Do you think we landed on the moon?
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Ignore this one if you want too but it has been in my head ever since I saw the first thread about this conspiracy and I have been dying to ask it.
Do you think we landed on the moon?
Yes, I think we landed on the moon.
About the Penatgon though, you say the plane was going 530mph just inches off the ground. Does that sound like anything any pilot (pro or not) can do? Does that pass your basic logic exam?
About the Penatgon though, you say the plane was going 530mph just inches off the ground. Does that sound like anything any pilot (pro or not) can do? Does that pass your basic logic exam?
how long before it crashed was it going 530 mph "just inches" off the ground?
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
About the Penatgon though, you say the plane was going 530mph just inches off the ground. Does that sound like anything any pilot (pro or not) can do? Does that pass your basic logic exam?
Yes, it passes mine because it happened.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
I don't know what airplane you've been on, but when I'm cruising at 30,000 feet we're still bumping all over the place, and that's with nothing in the way (light poles, etc)
I don't know what airplane you've been on, but when I'm cruising at 30,000 feet we're still bumping all over the place, and that's with nothing in the way (light poles, etc)
Doesn't mean that pilot couldn't slam it into the side of a building if he wanted to.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Without the slightest mark on the ground? Going 530mph?
If he doesn't hit the ground before hitting the building then yes. Without the slightest mark on the ground while going 530 mph.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Comments
This is one of those situations where the truth might begin to reveal itself 20 years from now when the key players are considered unimportant and powerless. And when newer generations are not tied into the widespread acceptable social convention that dictates what we can and cannot accept at this time. By then the smoke just may clear and we most likely will have a fairly accurate idea of what has happened. At this point though, the varying theories that tie the facts together, to me, are just that.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
'The United States and it's Government'? How about dropping the 'United States' part?
I'm simply raising questions here. And there are so many regarding 9/11 it beggars belief.
Are you then admitting that your criteria for accuracy is that it must fall within your own acceptable framework and therefore accuracy for you is akin to 'opinion'?
I ask this because you realize there is information out there that supports all sides. Therefore if you are just choosing one side, even when presented with conflicting evidence, then you are choosing based on personal preference, rather than undeniable proof. Also, to minimize alternative theories without proof is not factually accurate, either, but rather, again, opinion.
Doesn't it make more sense to while believing what you believe, to also keep your mind somewhat open?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
no ,and youre annoying ,but i think i know what youre refering to:the bradford smith iamthewitness site maybe -i think maybe he was thrown off gcnlive and yes he may be nuts ,i forgot ,but that doesnt mean i like him!!!!
is that what you mean? bradford smith?are you jewish? no im not anti semitic
what do you think of barry chamish?
http://groups.msn.com/PearlJamNirvana/messages.msnw
- from "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century," September, 2000.
"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor..."
Former 'Project for the New American Century' members include prominent members of the Republican Party and the Bush Administration, including Richard Armitage, William J. Bennett, Jeb Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Zalmay Khalilzad, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Richard Perle, former U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz.
as for me i dont know what i think who did 911 i just posted they are argeuing
but i know gov doesnt lie becuse im an indian and we smokum peace pipe and they give us white flour and ranicd coffee and slaughter buffalo
http://groups.msn.com/PearlJamNirvana/messages.msnw
because you don't seem to make distinction. yesterday you directly held everyone who voted for George Bush to blame for Iraq. so I think you have made your position against our government AND our people quite clear.
Fair enough. Im not debating the issue because I think it a moot point right now. All of these theories have been raised and investigated here. It's not like we don't have our share of conspiracy theorists in this country. I am not saying these views are impossible. Anything is possible. But I do believe the evidence of direct prior knowledge is tenuous. I agree that a high amount of negligence has been proven though.
Read the stuff you post. When you post links to conspiracy theorists who blame 9/11 on "zionists" repeatedly, you are making the supremacist argument, even if you did not intend to.
They are partly to blame. If you vote for a neo-con frat boy then you are partly to blame for the consequences of his subsequent actions.
I merely stated my opinion based on the information available. You are free to have a contrary opinion. Thats the point isnt it?
Ok then, so at least your being honest. Id be surprised if more than 3 people on this particular board voted for a Republican. I know I didn't.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
the 9/11 commission was not solely appointed by bush and were independent and bipartisan. are you implied bush appointed all his buddies who would keep his involvement hush hush?
The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the 9-11 Commission), an independent, bipartisan commission created by congressional legislation and the signature of President George W. Bush in late 2002, is chartered to prepare a full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including preparedness for and the immediate response to the attacks. The Commission is also mandated to provide recommendations designed to guard against future attacks.
Point one. Yes I am. Just as Blair appointed his own cronies to whitewash the investigation into the bogus Iraq intelligence dossier and the death of David Kelly.
Point two. Go figure.
i've looked at the video in question, but I haven't labored over it or pondered what the object could be.
here's why i believe it. flight 77 had lots of people on board. there were eyewitnessess who said they saw a plane fly into the pentagon. the people on board flight 77 haven't been seen since. That same day there were other planes that flew into buildings and another one that was hijacked over PA. Flight 77 had it's transmitter disconnected over WV/ohio and then a blip came on the radar a little later over DC. No wreckage was found in WV of a plane, there were no reports of an unidentified craft anywhere else along that flightplan. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that flight 77 did indeed hit the pentagon. Oh, and there are videos that show something flying into it.
Yes something that looks nothing like a boeing 757.
I am pretty sure that if it was the plane you think it was they would happily release prof of it but they haven't, so i have no cause to believe it.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
i was thinking about the capture rate of the footage and found this on the pop mechanics website: The bigger problem is that the footage suffers from a glacially slow frame rate: It moves at approximately 1 frame per second, while the plane--or what theorists insist was some sort of missile--hit the Pentagon traveling 780 ft. per second (more than 530 mph). At these camera angles, Flight 77 hardly registers on either film before a fireball erupts from the building."
To base anything off of something that is so undersampled is crazy. If I tried to base a claim in science using something that had a resolution of 1 Hz that needed something with a much higher resolution there's no way I'd be taken seriously. I just don't trust the video quality to make any sort of judegement on the video.
Do you think we landed on the moon?
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
Yes, I think we landed on the moon.
About the Penatgon though, you say the plane was going 530mph just inches off the ground. Does that sound like anything any pilot (pro or not) can do? Does that pass your basic logic exam?
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
how long before it crashed was it going 530 mph "just inches" off the ground?
Yes, it passes mine because it happened.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
I don't know what airplane you've been on, but when I'm cruising at 30,000 feet we're still bumping all over the place, and that's with nothing in the way (light poles, etc)
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
Doesn't mean that pilot couldn't slam it into the side of a building if he wanted to.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
Without the slightest mark on the ground? Going 530mph?
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
lol. yea and we landed on the moon
If he doesn't hit the ground before hitting the building then yes. Without the slightest mark on the ground while going 530 mph.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
yea I know it was a crazy insane move that through the will of allah was able to pull off.
but since you dont believe that. what hit the building? where is AA flight 77 ?