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Canadian Sticking Up For Americans

O_G_DO_G_D Toronto Posts: 542
edited January 2007 in A Moving Train
On my trip down under for this latest PJ Aussie tour i was astonished about how poorly i was treated at first when many took me to be an American. On top of that i was taken aback by how far and deep the Anti American sentiment is around the world, not just from Aussies, but from virtually everyone else i met from around the world. It really is quite scary.

I became quite defensive of my neighbours to the South whom i don't see eye to eye with all the time, but it made me sick to see how they were treated down under as if they were all in bed with Bush. Pearl Jam are clearly anti bush, but they are not anti american. And i think if they knew how poorly other countries including OZ treat Americans they would not be so obliged to visit these Countries.
1. Toronto, Ontario 09-21-1996 (MAPLE LEAF GARDENS)
2. Barrie, Ontario 08-22-1998 (MOLSON PARK)
3. Toronto, Ontario 10-05-2000 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
4. Toronto, Ontario 06-28-2003 (MOLSON AMPHITHEATRE)
5. Boston, Massachusetts 09-28-2004 FLEET CENTER (NOW TD GARDEN) VFC TOUR
6. Boston, Massachusetts 09-28-2004 FLEET CENTER (NOW TD GARDEN) VFC TOUR
7. Hamilton, Ontario 09-13-2005 (COPPS COLISEUM)
8. Toronto, Ontario 09-19-2005 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
9. St. Johns, Newfoundland 09-24-2005 (MILE ONE)
10. St. Johns, Newfoundland 09-25-2005 (MILE ONE)
11. Toronto, Ontario 05-09-2006 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
12. Toronto, Ontario 05-09-2006 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
13. Sydney, Australia 11-07-2006 (ACER ARENA)
14. Sydney, Australia 11-08-2006 (ACER ARENA)
15. Melbourne, Australia 11-13-2006 (ROD LAVER ARENA)
16. Melbourne, Australia 11-14-2006 (ROD LAVER ARENA)
17. Adelaide, Australia 11-21-2006 (ADELAIDE ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE)
18. Adelaide, Australia 11-22-2006 (ADELAIDE ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE)
19. Perth, Australia 11-25-2006 (SUBIACO OVAL)
20. New York, New York 06-24-2008 (MADISON SQUARE GARDEN)
21. New York, New York 06-25-2008 (MADISON SQUARE GARDEN)
22. Toronto, Ontario 08-21-2009 (MOLSON AMPITHEATRE)
23. Buffalo, New York 05-10-2010 (HSBC ARENA)
24. Toronto, Ontario 09-11-2011 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
25. Toronto, Ontario 09-12-2011 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
26. Hamilton, Ontario 09-15-2011 (COPPS COLISEUM)
27. London, Ontario 07-16-2013 (BUDWEISER GARDENS)
28. Buffalo, New York 10-12-2013 (FIRST NIAGARA CENTER) FORMERLY HSBC ARENA
29. Detroit, Michigan 10-16-2014 (JOE LOUIS ARENA)
30. Ottawa, Ontario 5-8-2016 (CANADIAN TIRE CENTRE)
31. Toronto, Ontario 5-10-2016 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
32. Toronto, Ontario 5-12-2016 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)

Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • WindNoSailWindNoSail Posts: 580
    O_G_D wrote:
    On my trip down under for this latest PJ Aussie tour i was astonished about how poorly i was treated at first when many took me to be an American. On top of that i was taken aback by how far and deep the Anti American sentiment is around the world, not just from Aussies, but from virtually everyone else i met from around the world. It really is quite scary.

    I became quite defensive of my neighbours to the South whom i don't see eye to eye with all the time, but it made me sick to see how they were treated down under as if they were all in bed with Bush. Pearl Jam are clearly anti bush, but they are not anti american. And i think if they knew how poorly other countries including OZ treat Americans they would not be so obliged to visit these Countries.

    Thanks for sticking up for us....democracies are like a family and we can fight with family, but in the end we support each other. That is my hope.
    HOB 10.05.2005, E Rutherford 06.03.2006, The Gorge 07.22.2006, Lolla 08.05.2007, West Palm 06.11.2008, Tampa 06.12.2008, Columbia 06.16.2008, EV Memphis 06.20.2009, New Orleans 05.01.2010, Kansas City 05.03.2010
  • pjhabitpjhabit Posts: 211
    Thanks for that, but unfortunately thats how it is nowdays :( I even experienced it first hand while up north for the Canadian tour.
    We get a bad rap for being naive to the "outside" world. But if they were so cultural they would know we have issues w/ how our gov. handles things & therefore perceives us to the world.
    Sometimes we needed to agree to disagree, like i believe we have done in the past O_G_D ;)
    peace
    Boise 11/3/00~Fargo 6/15/03~Winnipeg 9/8/05~St. Paul 6/26/06~6/27/06
  • O_G_DO_G_D Toronto Posts: 542
    PJ Habit wrote:
    Thanks for that, but unfortunately thats how it is nowdays :( I even experienced it first hand while up north for the Canadian tour.
    We get a bad rap for being naive to the "outside" world. But if they were so cultural they would know we have issues w/ how our gov. handles things & therefore perceives us to the world.
    Sometimes we needed to agree to disagree, like i believe we have done in the past O_G_D ;)
    peace


    I too can harp on Americans, but i still love them and hold no hate towards them due to the political mess they find themselves in. I have many family from there. Ironically i met a lad from Minnesota who asked me if i had heard of the Red Hot Chilli Peppers in Canada. This gave me one of the biggest brain cramps i have experienced so far in my life and one night while drunk i really gave it to him. Funny thing is now we are the best of friends (lol).
    1. Toronto, Ontario 09-21-1996 (MAPLE LEAF GARDENS)
    2. Barrie, Ontario 08-22-1998 (MOLSON PARK)
    3. Toronto, Ontario 10-05-2000 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    4. Toronto, Ontario 06-28-2003 (MOLSON AMPHITHEATRE)
    5. Boston, Massachusetts 09-28-2004 FLEET CENTER (NOW TD GARDEN) VFC TOUR
    6. Boston, Massachusetts 09-28-2004 FLEET CENTER (NOW TD GARDEN) VFC TOUR
    7. Hamilton, Ontario 09-13-2005 (COPPS COLISEUM)
    8. Toronto, Ontario 09-19-2005 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    9. St. Johns, Newfoundland 09-24-2005 (MILE ONE)
    10. St. Johns, Newfoundland 09-25-2005 (MILE ONE)
    11. Toronto, Ontario 05-09-2006 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    12. Toronto, Ontario 05-09-2006 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    13. Sydney, Australia 11-07-2006 (ACER ARENA)
    14. Sydney, Australia 11-08-2006 (ACER ARENA)
    15. Melbourne, Australia 11-13-2006 (ROD LAVER ARENA)
    16. Melbourne, Australia 11-14-2006 (ROD LAVER ARENA)
    17. Adelaide, Australia 11-21-2006 (ADELAIDE ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE)
    18. Adelaide, Australia 11-22-2006 (ADELAIDE ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE)
    19. Perth, Australia 11-25-2006 (SUBIACO OVAL)
    20. New York, New York 06-24-2008 (MADISON SQUARE GARDEN)
    21. New York, New York 06-25-2008 (MADISON SQUARE GARDEN)
    22. Toronto, Ontario 08-21-2009 (MOLSON AMPITHEATRE)
    23. Buffalo, New York 05-10-2010 (HSBC ARENA)
    24. Toronto, Ontario 09-11-2011 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    25. Toronto, Ontario 09-12-2011 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    26. Hamilton, Ontario 09-15-2011 (COPPS COLISEUM)
    27. London, Ontario 07-16-2013 (BUDWEISER GARDENS)
    28. Buffalo, New York 10-12-2013 (FIRST NIAGARA CENTER) FORMERLY HSBC ARENA
    29. Detroit, Michigan 10-16-2014 (JOE LOUIS ARENA)
    30. Ottawa, Ontario 5-8-2016 (CANADIAN TIRE CENTRE)
    31. Toronto, Ontario 5-10-2016 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    32. Toronto, Ontario 5-12-2016 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)

  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    WindNoSail wrote:
    Thanks for sticking up for us....democracies are like a family and we can fight with family, but in the end we support each other. That is my hope.

    two major corrupt parties with the same corporate interests, a country where your rights are quickly taken away from you under the guise of security, a government where the power is not truly with the people.

    That is your america, that is your american democracy.
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    MrBrian wrote:
    two major corrupt parties with the same corporate interests, a country where your rights are quickly taken away from you under the guise of security, a government where the power is not truly with the people.

    That is your america, that is your american democracy.

    Im guessing your company doesn't invite you to the yearly christmas party?
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    miller8966 wrote:
    Im guessing your company doesn't invite you to the yearly christmas party?
    lmao
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    O_G_D wrote:
    On my trip down under for this latest PJ Aussie tour i was astonished about how poorly i was treated at first when many took me to be an American. On top of that i was taken aback by how far and deep the Anti American sentiment is around the world, not just from Aussies, but from virtually everyone else i met from around the world. It really is quite scary.

    I became quite defensive of my neighbours to the South whom i don't see eye to eye with all the time, but it made me sick to see how they were treated down under as if they were all in bed with Bush. Pearl Jam are clearly anti bush, but they are not anti american. And i think if they knew how poorly other countries including OZ treat Americans they would not be so obliged to visit these Countries.


    First let me say thanks. Secondly people, Americans and non-Americans, have to start distinguishing the difference between our government and the people. because someone is from a certain country does not mean that they themselves represent the actions of their government or if they criticize their own government does not mean that they share the same opinion of their fellow countrymen or country itself.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    mammasan wrote:
    First let me say thanks. Secondly people, Americans and non-Americans, have to start distinguishing the difference between our government and the people. because someone is from a certain country does not mean that they themselves represent the actions of their government or if they criticize their own government does not mean that they share the same opinion of their fellow countrymen or country itself.



    When Americans can tell the difference between obscured religion and those who practice peacefully, maybe the rest will be able to tell the difference between the US government and the people. :) Strange that cycle and how it keeps going around in a circle.

    Let's face it. When it comes to bombing countries in the world. The US is head and shoulders above any other country. Who really cares if you support the government or not. YOUR tax dollar is paving the way. And yes you do deserve some blame. Whether you see it that way or not. So even when you are informed and know the difference, somebody's shoulders need to take on the responsibility.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • NCfanNCfan Posts: 945
    MrBrian wrote:
    two major corrupt parties with the same corporate interests, a country where your rights are quickly taken away from you under the guise of security, a government where the power is not truly with the people.

    That is your america, that is your american democracy.

    And where are you from? I doubt your country is the shining example of perfect government that validates your self-rightous attitude.

    No, America is not perfect - in fact it's pretty damn far from it. And there isn't a right-minded U.S. citizen that won't freely admit that. But your charges, while founded in some grain of truth, don't account for the reality of our world.

    In other words, you hold America to some standard that is currently unattainable. It's like demanding that America or any country on earth have a completely corrupt-free government. That is just not going to happen any time soon. The last hundred years of human existence saw hundreds of millions of people around the world, so ignorant and vulnerable that they supported Nazism, Fascism and Communist governments that sponsored genocide, purges, gulags and all kinds of torture on their OWN CITIZENS! I'm not talking Abu Ghraib or Guantanomo. I'm talking Auswitch, Stalin's Gulags or Mao's work camps and political killings. Those governments and leaders are responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths - mostly civilians or government dissidents! As if in the last couple decades humans have evolved past our own emotional and point-of-view perspectives to rise above thousands of years of tradition when it comes to leading and following others.

    People are still people, and therefore government can only be a relfection of our humanity, be it good or bad! We still murder, cheat, steal. We have self-serving ambitions. We are jealous. This is our nature as humans beings. Why is it that you expect these things not to manifest themsleves in our human leadership?

    I'm not saying it's right. But I am eternally curious why you and others expect America to be perfect, to be above that? The overwhelmingly vast majority of Americans feel perfectly safe and free. We do not feel as if our government has purged our rights from us.

    Yes, most of us are upset with our goverment, it's leadership and many of the choices they have made in the last few years. But I ask who and what government out there hasn't found itself at fault or made bad decisions?

    Government is a work in progress. Society and civilization is a work in progress. America has done much wrong in the world throughout history. But one thing we have done, and is the source of most misundertood and hated "American pride" is that we have established the building blocks, the framework of a government for the people, of the people and by the people.

    We're pretty damn proud of this and feel that though this system has flaws, it is by far the best method of self rule that humans have created as of the year 2007.

    Americans are tired of being the proverbial "whiping boy" for everything that is wrong in the world. We give billions of dollars away each year to country's all over the world to help everything from disaster relief to humanitarin aid to aids prevention.

    Yes, it would help if American leadership reached out more to our friends and enemies alike. But when most people and countries have a scewed, biased dislike of America all the way to a downright vile hatred - it makes things harder!
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    even flow? wrote:
    When Americans can tell the difference between obscured religion and those who practice peacefully, maybe the rest will be able to tell the difference between the US government and the people. :) Strange that cycle and how it keeps going around in a circle.

    Let's face it. When it comes to bombing countries in the world. The US is head and shoulders above any other country. Who really cares if you support the government or not. YOUR tax dollar is paving the way. And yes you do deserve some blame. Whether you see it that way or not. So even when you are informed and know the difference, somebody's shoulders need to take on the responsibility.

    So because my tax dollars, which are taken out of my paycheck and I have no control over, may have been used to bomb another country I deserve to be treated like shit while visiting another country. You are right someone does need to shoulder the responsibility and it should be those that made the decisions, not the people. I didn't tell the President to use my tax money to go to war. I didn't tell the President to use my tax money to prop up some dictatorship. Our ability to control our government is an illusion, we the people have no say in how this country is run and the actions it decides to take. If your pissed at my government fine, hell I'll even stand next to you and be pissed off with you, but don't take it out on me when I had no hand in any of it's actions.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    mammasan wrote:
    So because my tax dollars, which are taken out of my paycheck and I have no control over, may have been used to bomb another country I deserve to be treated like shit while visiting another country. You are right someone does need to shoulder the responsibility and it should be those that made the decisions, not the people. I didn't tell the President to use my tax money to go to war. I didn't tell the President to use my tax money to prop up some dictatorship. Our ability to control our government is an illusion, we the people have no say in how this country is run and the actions it decides to take. If your pissed at my government fine, hell I'll even stand next to you and be pissed off with you, but don't take it out on me when I had no hand in any of it's actions.


    I am one of the people who understand. Still dosen't stop me from commenting when I see US plates up here about "how the war is going", and "are you escaping to a better place". One of those things, you know. ;) For most of the people who do that. They as I, have probably ran into way too many overly proud yanks who are just begging to be put in their place. I guess people don't have a problem doing that when the situation is right. Which seems to be most of the time. :)

    For being one of the leaders of the free world. Your boy(s) sure walk with a hell of a lot of protection for doing the right thing(s).
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • O_G_DO_G_D Toronto Posts: 542
    Associtating and hating on all Americans because of American politics only continues the viscious cycle of ignorance thus making the people who do it as stupid as the people they are apparently criticizing or hating on. I see no solution in that.
    1. Toronto, Ontario 09-21-1996 (MAPLE LEAF GARDENS)
    2. Barrie, Ontario 08-22-1998 (MOLSON PARK)
    3. Toronto, Ontario 10-05-2000 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    4. Toronto, Ontario 06-28-2003 (MOLSON AMPHITHEATRE)
    5. Boston, Massachusetts 09-28-2004 FLEET CENTER (NOW TD GARDEN) VFC TOUR
    6. Boston, Massachusetts 09-28-2004 FLEET CENTER (NOW TD GARDEN) VFC TOUR
    7. Hamilton, Ontario 09-13-2005 (COPPS COLISEUM)
    8. Toronto, Ontario 09-19-2005 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    9. St. Johns, Newfoundland 09-24-2005 (MILE ONE)
    10. St. Johns, Newfoundland 09-25-2005 (MILE ONE)
    11. Toronto, Ontario 05-09-2006 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    12. Toronto, Ontario 05-09-2006 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    13. Sydney, Australia 11-07-2006 (ACER ARENA)
    14. Sydney, Australia 11-08-2006 (ACER ARENA)
    15. Melbourne, Australia 11-13-2006 (ROD LAVER ARENA)
    16. Melbourne, Australia 11-14-2006 (ROD LAVER ARENA)
    17. Adelaide, Australia 11-21-2006 (ADELAIDE ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE)
    18. Adelaide, Australia 11-22-2006 (ADELAIDE ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE)
    19. Perth, Australia 11-25-2006 (SUBIACO OVAL)
    20. New York, New York 06-24-2008 (MADISON SQUARE GARDEN)
    21. New York, New York 06-25-2008 (MADISON SQUARE GARDEN)
    22. Toronto, Ontario 08-21-2009 (MOLSON AMPITHEATRE)
    23. Buffalo, New York 05-10-2010 (HSBC ARENA)
    24. Toronto, Ontario 09-11-2011 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    25. Toronto, Ontario 09-12-2011 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    26. Hamilton, Ontario 09-15-2011 (COPPS COLISEUM)
    27. London, Ontario 07-16-2013 (BUDWEISER GARDENS)
    28. Buffalo, New York 10-12-2013 (FIRST NIAGARA CENTER) FORMERLY HSBC ARENA
    29. Detroit, Michigan 10-16-2014 (JOE LOUIS ARENA)
    30. Ottawa, Ontario 5-8-2016 (CANADIAN TIRE CENTRE)
    31. Toronto, Ontario 5-10-2016 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)
    32. Toronto, Ontario 5-12-2016 (AIR CANADA CENTRE)

  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    mammasan wrote:
    So because my tax dollars, which are taken out of my paycheck and I have no control over, may have been used to bomb another country I deserve to be treated like shit while visiting another country. You are right someone does need to shoulder the responsibility and it should be those that made the decisions, not the people. I didn't tell the President to use my tax money to go to war. I didn't tell the President to use my tax money to prop up some dictatorship. Our ability to control our government is an illusion, we the people have no say in how this country is run and the actions it decides to take. If your pissed at my government fine, hell I'll even stand next to you and be pissed off with you, but don't take it out on me when I had no hand in any of it's actions.

    That's why I said it's not a real democracy.

    Many americans claim to be so free and to be living in the the greatest democracy, these are (as you mentioned) illusions.

    What real control do americans have over the government? it's the government that has all the control of it's people. They control the population with mostly fear.

    This is just the reality of how america is.
    --

    Another point is, when will the majority of these better americans take the stand? all talk no action.
    ---
  • lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    mammasan wrote:
    people, Americans and non-Americans, have to start distinguishing the difference between our government and the people.

    That's one of the largest problems I can see facing us right now.
  • CorporateWhoreCorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    Who gives a shit what these people think of us?

    When they give you shit, just ask them what the fuck they ever did for the world. So our government currently sucks right now - big deal. America's saved more ass than Carter's got pills.

    Even with a shitty government, our country is 10x better than any other country out there.

    I don't lie awake worrying about what Australians think of us. Honestly, it matters very little to me.

    In the end, it comes down to one thing: military power. They're threatened by our military, and for good reason: we could kick anyone's asses if we wanted to. But we don't and God Bless us for not.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    NCfan wrote:
    And where are you from? I doubt your country is the shining example of perfect government that validates your self-rightous attitude.

    No, America is not perfect - in fact it's pretty damn far from it. And there isn't a right-minded U.S. citizen that won't freely admit that. But your charges, while founded in some grain of truth, don't account for the reality of our world.

    In other words, you hold America to some standard that is currently unattainable. It's like demanding that America or any country on earth have a completely corrupt-free government. That is just not going to happen any time soon. The last hundred years of human existence saw hundreds of millions of people around the world, so ignorant and vulnerable that they supported Nazism, Fascism and Communist governments that sponsored genocide, purges, gulags and all kinds of torture on their OWN CITIZENS! I'm not talking Abu Ghraib or Guantanomo. I'm talking Auswitch, Stalin's Gulags or Mao's work camps and political killings. Those governments and leaders are responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths - mostly civilians or government dissidents! As if in the last couple decades humans have evolved past our own emotional and point-of-view perspectives to rise above thousands of years of tradition when it comes to leading and following others.

    People are still people, and therefore government can only be a relfection of our humanity, be it good or bad! We still murder, cheat, steal. We have self-serving ambitions. We are jealous. This is our nature as humans beings. Why is it that you expect these things not to manifest themsleves in our human leadership?

    I'm not saying it's right. But I am eternally curious why you and others expect America to be perfect, to be above that? The overwhelmingly vast majority of Americans feel perfectly safe and free. We do not feel as if our government has purged our rights from us.

    Yes, most of us are upset with our goverment, it's leadership and many of the choices they have made in the last few years. But I ask who and what government out there hasn't found itself at fault or made bad decisions?

    Government is a work in progress. Society and civilization is a work in progress. America has done much wrong in the world throughout history. But one thing we have done, and is the source of most misundertood and hated "American pride" is that we have established the building blocks, the framework of a government for the people, of the people and by the people.

    We're pretty damn proud of this and feel that though this system has flaws, it is by far the best method of self rule that humans have created as of the year 2007.

    Americans are tired of being the proverbial "whiping boy" for everything that is wrong in the world. We give billions of dollars away each year to country's all over the world to help everything from disaster relief to humanitarin aid to aids prevention.

    Yes, it would help if American leadership reached out more to our friends and enemies alike. But when most people and countries have a scewed, biased dislike of America all the way to a downright vile hatred - it makes things harder!

    What I said about america is just the truth, it just is. So because I pointed this truth out that means I have a self-rightous attitude? you are an ignorant american....j/k

    Now you see, I don't expect america to be perfect like you said I do in your post, but when you have a country that claims to be so good, then go around spreading that goodness around the world by the means of bombs, invasions, backing of corrupts governments and leaders.

    Remember now, a huge amount of the american population have supported these digusting wars. so it's not like the government went around and did it behind everyones back.

    Sure just about all countries are corrupt, but america, she's on another level.
  • SweetHarmonicsSweetHarmonics Posts: 290
    Again, it's such a shallow mindset to be comfortable with making sweeping generalizations about a whole population of a country.
    hate was just a legend
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Who gives a shit what these people think of us?

    When they give you shit, just ask them what the fuck they ever did for the world. So our government currently sucks right now - big deal. America's saved more ass than Carter's got pills.

    Even with a shitty government, our country is 10x better than any other country out there.

    I don't lie awake worrying about what Australians think of us. Honestly, it matters very little to me.

    In the end, it comes down to one thing: military power. They're threatened by our military, and for good reason: we could kick anyone's asses if we wanted to. But we don't and God Bless us for not.

    BuMpIty BuMp...
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Who gives a shit what these people think of us?

    When they give you shit, just ask them what the fuck they ever did for the world. So our government currently sucks right now - big deal. America's saved more ass than Carter's got pills.

    Even with a shitty government, our country is 10x better than any other country out there.

    I don't lie awake worrying about what Australians think of us. Honestly, it matters very little to me.

    In the end, it comes down to one thing: military power. They're threatened by our military, and for good reason: we could kick anyone's asses if we wanted to. But we don't and God Bless us for not.

    This may also be a reason why people don't like us. The pure and utter arrogance that some Americans walk around with. When we start realizing that we are people just like everyone else and that there are other countries out there just as good as we are maybe, just maybe people will stop thinking we are a bunch of cowboy assholes.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    MrBrian wrote:
    That's why I said it's not a real democracy.

    Many americans claim to be so free and to be living in the the greatest democracy, these are (as you mentioned) illusions.

    What real control do americans have over the government? it's the government that has all the control of it's people. They control the population with mostly fear.

    This is just the reality of how america is.
    --

    Another point is, when will the majority of these better americans take the stand? all talk no action.
    ---

    I know America is not a real democracy, but the population isn't controlled through just fear, it's controlled by thoughts and attitudes of all kinds. You have to understand that the American people are under the most sophisticated propaganda system that's ever existed, and it's difficult to break through that. Not impossible, but difficult.

    And what would you have the few "better Americans" do? Stop paying taxes, go to jail, and ruin our lives because we were born into this machine that we took no part in creating? That's not a stand that's worth taking. Some of us are doing the best we can by organizing, protesting, etc. It takes time for enough people to join in. I accept responsibility for funding the defense companies, but choosing between going to jail and paying taxes while living a good life while working to improve the government in more creative ways....I'll take the latter because that's the only realistic choice. I'm not going to make my life miserable simply because I was born into this situation.

    I wouldn't expect Canadians to stop paying taxes back when that government was supporting Suharto. I don't blame Iraqis for taking "no action" against a brutal dictator who ruled them for a generation or so. And I don't think Americans should be described as not willing to take action. That's wrong.
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    I guess I do have to say it.

    Yes all americans are not the same, never said they were, america at it's core is a great place. United States Constitution and all that. thumbs up!
    --

    But right now, take a good look at the place.
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    Saturnal wrote:
    I know America is not a real democracy, but the population isn't controlled through just fear, it's controlled by thoughts and attitudes of all kinds. You have to understand that the American people are under the most sophisticated propaganda system that's ever existed, and it's difficult to break through that. Not impossible, but difficult.

    And what would you have the few "better Americans" do? Stop paying taxes, go to jail, and ruin our lives because we were born into this machine that we took no part in creating? That's not a stand that's worth taking. Some of us are doing the best we can by organizing, protesting, etc. It takes time for enough people to join in. I accept responsibility for funding the defense companies, but choosing between going to jail and paying taxes while living a good life while working to improve the government in more creative ways....I'll take the latter because that's the only realistic choice. I'm not going to make my life miserable simply because I was born into this situation.

    I wouldn't expect Canadians to stop paying taxes back when that government was supporting Suharto. I don't blame Iraqis for taking "no action" against a brutal dictator who ruled them for a generation or so. And I don't think Americans should be described as not willing to take action. That's wrong.

    The south africans fought against it's corrupt government, india and gandhi stood up against the british. i'm sorry for expecting more from the american people than what they are doing to help the situation.
  • CorporateWhoreCorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    mammasan wrote:
    This may also be a reason why people don't like us. The pure and utter arrogance that some Americans walk around with. When we start realizing that we are people just like everyone else and that there are other countries out there just as good as we are maybe, just maybe people will stop thinking we are a bunch of cowboy assholes.

    I hope they keep thinking we're cowboy assholes. You know why? They're fucking pricks who make fun of us when we go to their countries even though our government has done the bad things, not us.

    They're the assholes. Make fun of Bush - fine. I'm not going to hate on all French people even though Jacques Chirac is a douche.

    What you call arrogance, I call pride in my country. I'm sorry you can't be proud of your country.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • The IllinoisemakersThe Illinoisemakers Posts: 461
    MrBrian wrote:
    That's why I said it's not a real democracy.

    Many americans claim to be so free and to be living in the the greatest democracy, these are (as you mentioned) illusions.

    What real control do americans have over the government? it's the government that has all the control of it's people. They control the population with mostly fear.

    This is just the reality of how america is.
    --

    Another point is, when will the majority of these better americans take the stand? all talk no action.
    ---

    Controlled by fear? That is just stupid. You really have no idea what you are talking about. Not one day have I been in fear with Bush as president or Clinton. What does that even mean "controlled by fear"?
  • lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    MrBrian wrote:
    The south africans fought against it's corrupt government, india and gandhi stood up against the british. i'm sorry for expecting more from the american people than what they are doing to help the situation.

    I expect more from Americans as well, but you have to understand the obstacles that's all. How long did it take for India to gain independence? How long did Apartheid rule in South Africa? It takes time, and there are people here working on it. I just think it's unfair to single us out and say "hey get up off your asses".
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Who gives a shit what these people think of us?

    When they give you shit, just ask them what the fuck they ever did for the world. So our government currently sucks right now - big deal. America's saved more ass than Carter's got pills.

    Even with a shitty government, our country is 10x better than any other country out there.

    I don't lie awake worrying about what Australians think of us. Honestly, it matters very little to me.

    In the end, it comes down to one thing: military power. They're threatened by our military, and for good reason: we could kick anyone's asses if we wanted to. But we don't and God Bless us for not.

    To put things into the real world which you did a good job of distancing yourself from with your comments. Your military did jack shit on 911 and then you have hit the wrong country for your blood thirsty revenge. Right there is why people can't stand people like you. And then multiply it by the last 200+ years.

    I also like the fact that the yanks are a bunch of pussies without their beloved military and guns. Take that to the bank!
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • The IllinoisemakersThe Illinoisemakers Posts: 461
    even flow? wrote:
    To put things into the real world which you did a good job of distancing yourself from with your comments. Your military did jack shit on 911 and then you have hit the wrong country for your blood thirsty revenge. Right there is why people can't stand people like you. And then multiply it by the last 200+ years.

    I also like the fact that the yanks are a bunch of pussies without their beloved military and guns. Take that to the bank![/quote

    Well if we don't have our guns to defend ourselves how are we supposed to stop you damn Canucks from stabbing us with your ice skates?
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    even flow? wrote:
    I also like the fact that the yanks are a bunch of pussies without their beloved military and guns. Take that to the bank!

    Said by a citizen of a country that clubs baby seals. You guys seem pretty tough, too.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • CorporateWhoreCorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    even flow? wrote:
    To put things into the real world which you did a good job of distancing yourself from with your comments. Your military did jack shit on 911 and then you have hit the wrong country for your blood thirsty revenge. Right there is why people can't stand people like you. And then multiply it by the last 200+ years.

    I also like the fact that the yanks are a bunch of pussies without their beloved military and guns. Take that to the bank!

    Oh yeah???!!!

    You're from Canada.

    'Nuff said.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    Saturnal wrote:
    I expect more from Americans as well, but you have to understand the obstacles that's all. How long did it take for India to gain independence? How long did Apartheid rule in South Africa? It takes time, and there are people here working on it. I just think it's unfair to single us out and say "hey get up off your asses".

    America has been in bad shape for a long time, not only that but take a look at south africa for example, those problems were internal. you see when america is bad it affects many other places,countries and people.

    How much time do you need? look right now at the destruction american policy is causing.
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