"act of war", isreal moves into lebanon

The Waiting Trophy ManThe Waiting Trophy Man Posts: 12,158
edited July 2006 in A Moving Train
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/12/mideast/index.html

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israel launched air strikes and sent troops and tanks into southern Lebanon Wednesday, after Hezbollah television said its guerrillas had abducted two Israeli soldiers along the border.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert described the Hezbollah attacks as an "act of war" by Lebanon and promised a "very painful and far-reaching" response, The Associated Press reported.

Hezbollah is demanding a prisoner exchange for the soldiers' release. In a later claim on its television network, Hezbollah said it had "destroyed" an Israeli tank crossing into southern Lebanon. The fate of the tank crew was not known.

The valleys along the Israeli-Lebanese border thundered with artillery fire and clouds of blue-gray smoke could be seen rising above Lebanese positions.

Israeli military sources confirmed a troop build-up on the northern border and said preparations were being made for possible call up of reserve soldiers.

"This morning there was an attack on civilians and soldiers in the north. At this moment there are Israeli security forces operating inside Lebanon," Olmert told reporters.

"The government will convene this evening for a special cabinet meeting. I want to make clear that the events this morning are not a terror attack but an operation of a sovereign state without any reason or provocation."

The Israeli Cabinet is scheduled to meet at 7 p.m. (noon ET), according to Olmert's office.

"The Lebanese government, of which Hezbollah is part of, is trying to undermine the stability of the region, and the Lebanese government will be responsible for the consequences," Olmert said.

The abduction of the soldiers would open a second front after Israel sent tanks and troops into the Palestinian territory of Gaza following the abduction of an Israeli soldier by Palestinian militants. Israeli Cpl. Gilad Shalit, 19, was abducted in a raid on an Israeli military post in southern Israel on June 25.

The militants holding him have demanded the release of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel in exchange for Shalit. Israel has flatly refused.

Responding to the most recent incident along the Israel-Lebanon border, Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz said in a statement: "The State of Israel sees itself free to use all measures that it finds it needs and the (Israeli Forces) have been given orders in that direction.

"If the soldiers are not returned we will turn Lebanon's clock back 20 years," Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Dan Halutz to Israeli Channel 10.

Israeli forces, observers said, were bombing roads, bridges and guerrilla positions in southern Lebanon an attempt to prevent guerrillas from moving the troops deeper into Lebanon.

Israeli forces are also responding to rocket attacks fired by Hezbollah into northern Israel, according to the army.

Four Israeli civilians and six soldiers have been wounded in the fighting so far, according to the Israeli military.

The IDF instructed citizens in northern villages to take shelter as the violence escalated.

It is the latest skirmish between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon, whose forces traded cross-border fire in late May following the assassination of an Islamic Jihad official in the southern Lebanese city of Sidon.

Mahmoud Majzoub, also known as Abu Hamza, was killed in a car bombing, which Islamic Jihad blamed on Israel. Israel denied any involvement in the incident.

Hezbollah is designated a terrorist group by the United States and Israel but is a significant player in Lebanon's fractious politics.

Israel set up a security buffer zone in southern Lebanon from 1978 until 2000.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    iw as about ot post this...just saw it on the news that they are bombing lebanon and outside it and preparing for a major incursion and are prepared to bomb lebanon back 20 years...
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • siochansiochan Posts: 304
    That they commit acts of war.
    That they continually break international law.
    That they refuse to adhere to over 80 UN Security and General council resolutions.
    That they alienate themselves from the entire region with their zionist philosophy.
    That the regularily kill and maim civilians.
    That they separate farmers from their lands with a three storey cement wall.
    That they have tactically moved this cement wall to include the majority of underground natural aquifers.
    That they pollute the areas outside their settlements with sewage and other waste.
    That they utilise collective punishment almost on a daily basis.
    That they terrorise the Palestinian population with an occupation.
    That they refuse to accept democracy in the region.

    So I don't believe they'll care that they've entered Lebanon illegally - Maybe this has some connection to the fact that syrian forces have recently begun withdrawing from Lebanon.
    Israel currently in the world's context are acting as a law onto itself ........... the Israeli government and IOF use the " war on terror" idea to facilitate their expansionist policies.

    They don't appear as if they are the actions of a country that wishes to create a peaceful and stable environment.
    " You cannot throw a rope around the neck of an idea" .....Bobby Sands.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    I haven't read or heard anything but the actual report, but from the outside looking in......It's 2 soldiers, why all the bombing? Wouldn't other methods get them back more quickly?
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    I haven't read or heard anything but the actual report, but from the outside looking in......It's 2 soldiers, why all the bombing? Wouldn't other methods get them back more quickly?


    youd' think...they showed footage about 10 min ago on fox
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    This is just a diseaster. When will Israel, or anyone else, realize that violence is not the answer to violence. What will this accomplish?
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    How many more countries and people can Israel piss off before it is them against the entire middle east. At least this time they can't blame other nations if they start to go the way of the do-do.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • NCfanNCfan Posts: 945
    July 10, 2006
    The Israel Enigma
    by Victor Davis Hanson
    Tribune Media Services

    What explains most of the world's dislike of Israel ?

    Since Israeli settlers withdrew from Gaza in 2005, Palestinian terrorists have replied by consistently shooting homemade Qassam rockets at civilian targets inside Israel . Just recently, they've kidnapped a soldier and a hitchhiker (who has been killed) — and promised to do the same to others.

    You'd expect these terrorist attacks on Israel to be viewed by responsible nations as similar to the jihadist violence we read about daily around the world — radical Islamists beheading Russian diplomats over Chechnya , plotting to do the same to the Canadian prime minister or threatening murder over insensitive Danish cartoons.

    But that isn't the case at all. Israel is always seen as a special exception that somehow deserves what it gets.

    Other states can retaliate with impunity, brutally killing thousands of Muslim terrorists, while Israel is condemned when it takes out a few dozen.

    When in late 1999 Russians stormed Grozny , thousands of Chechnya Muslims died. Yet the press was mostly silent. Baathist Syria went after the Muslim Brotherhood in 1982, wiping out much of the city of Hama and killing perhaps more than 10,000. Not many U.N. resolutions or international refugee efforts there.

    To this day, no one knows the horrific body count from the Islamic insurrection in Algeria . Darfur finally earns occasional airtime, but only after tens of thousands have perished.

    But Israel 's 2002 "siege" of the West Bank town Jenin, where less than 80 died on both sides, was evoked as "genocide" by those in the Middle East who often deny the real one that took 6 million Jewish lives. When Israel retaliates by air to terrorism, it is dubbed a "blitz" by the press — as if it were akin to the Nazis carpet-bombing London .

    Israel 's border fence is referred to as a "Berlin Wall," but you never hear Egypt 's nearby massive concrete barrier to keep Palestinians in Gaza described that way.

    Then there is the open sore of the West Bank "occupation." Even if you forget that a series of offensive wars to destroy Israel in part originated from Palestine, or that Israel has given up land acquired by war in its perennial hope for "land for peace," what is so unique about the West Bank that drowns out all other crises over contested ground (from islands like Cyprus and the Falklands to entire countries like Tibet)? Why has tiny Israel alone earned more U.N. resolutions of condemnation than all those offered against all other nations of the world combined?

    It is not as if Israel is a rogue state. For over a half-century, it's been the only liberal democracy in the Middle East . Israeli scientists have given the world everything from innovative computer software to drip-irrigation technology.

    Oil explains some of the weird discrepancy in how the world views certain countries. It warps policymaking. Take away Iranian and Arab petroleum — and thus the risk of another oil embargo or rigged price hike — and Western fears of Middle East oil states would diminish. Naked self-interest determines the foreign policy of most nations.

    The size of Israel factors in here as well. Israel has a population of not much more than 6 million and is surrounded by nearly 350 million Muslim Arabs. Most of the world counts heads — and adjusts attitudes accordingly.

    The old anti-Semitism is, of course, another ingredient that accounts for the animus shown Israel . Even sensitive, multicultural Westerners care little that Arab "allies" often portray Jews as "pigs" and "apes" in their state-run media. Odious tracts like "Mein Kampf" still sell briskly in Palestine , and Iranian and Gulf money subsidizes a mini-industry of holocaust denial.

    Finally, as we know from our own southern border, anytime a successful Westernized nation is adjacent to a poorer Third World country, primordial emotions like honor and envy cloud reason. Rather than concede that Western-style democracy, capitalism, personal freedom and the rule of law explain why a prosperous, stable Israel arose from scrub and rock, Palestinians fixate on "Zionism," "colonialism" and "racism."

    No wonder they do. Otherwise they would have to grapple with intractable and indigenous tribalism, gender apartheid, militias and religious fundamentalism, while building an open society based on the rule of law.

    In some ways, Israel 's values and success most resemble the United States .

    And that raises a final question: Is Israel hated by the world for supporting us — or are we hated for supporting it? Or is it both?




    ©2006 Victor Davis Hanson
  • NCfanNCfan Posts: 945
    even flow? wrote:
    How many more countries and people can Israel piss off before it is them against the entire middle east. At least this time they can't blame other nations if they start to go the way of the do-do.

    Who in the Middle East supports Israel in the first place?
  • israel, like america, has a dark future. and they both act before they think, it seems.
    Another habit says it's in love with you
    Another habit says its long overdue
    Another habit like an unwanted friend
    I'm so happy with my righteous self
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    mammasan wrote:
    This is just a diseaster. When will Israel, or anyone else, realize that violence is not the answer to violence. What will this accomplish?

    Very true. Violence will never end until one side take the high road and doesn't seek revenge.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    NCfan wrote:
    July 10, 2006
    The Israel Enigma
    by Victor Davis Hanson
    Tribune Media Services

    What explains most of the world's dislike of Israel ?

    Since Israeli settlers withdrew from Gaza in 2005, Palestinian terrorists have replied by consistently shooting homemade Qassam rockets at civilian targets inside Israel . Just recently, they've kidnapped a soldier and a hitchhiker (who has been killed) — and promised to do the same to others.

    You'd expect these terrorist attacks on Israel to be viewed by responsible nations as similar to the jihadist violence we read about daily around the world — radical Islamists beheading Russian diplomats over Chechnya , plotting to do the same to the Canadian prime minister or threatening murder over insensitive Danish cartoons.

    But that isn't the case at all. Israel is always seen as a special exception that somehow deserves what it gets.

    Other states can retaliate with impunity, brutally killing thousands of Muslim terrorists, while Israel is condemned when it takes out a few dozen.

    When in late 1999 Russians stormed Grozny , thousands of Chechnya Muslims died. Yet the press was mostly silent. Baathist Syria went after the Muslim Brotherhood in 1982, wiping out much of the city of Hama and killing perhaps more than 10,000. Not many U.N. resolutions or international refugee efforts there.

    To this day, no one knows the horrific body count from the Islamic insurrection in Algeria . Darfur finally earns occasional airtime, but only after tens of thousands have perished.

    But Israel 's 2002 "siege" of the West Bank town Jenin, where less than 80 died on both sides, was evoked as "genocide" by those in the Middle East who often deny the real one that took 6 million Jewish lives. When Israel retaliates by air to terrorism, it is dubbed a "blitz" by the press — as if it were akin to the Nazis carpet-bombing London .

    Israel 's border fence is referred to as a "Berlin Wall," but you never hear Egypt 's nearby massive concrete barrier to keep Palestinians in Gaza described that way.

    Then there is the open sore of the West Bank "occupation." Even if you forget that a series of offensive wars to destroy Israel in part originated from Palestine, or that Israel has given up land acquired by war in its perennial hope for "land for peace," what is so unique about the West Bank that drowns out all other crises over contested ground (from islands like Cyprus and the Falklands to entire countries like Tibet)? Why has tiny Israel alone earned more U.N. resolutions of condemnation than all those offered against all other nations of the world combined?

    It is not as if Israel is a rogue state. For over a half-century, it's been the only liberal democracy in the Middle East . Israeli scientists have given the world everything from innovative computer software to drip-irrigation technology.

    Oil explains some of the weird discrepancy in how the world views certain countries. It warps policymaking. Take away Iranian and Arab petroleum — and thus the risk of another oil embargo or rigged price hike — and Western fears of Middle East oil states would diminish. Naked self-interest determines the foreign policy of most nations.

    The size of Israel factors in here as well. Israel has a population of not much more than 6 million and is surrounded by nearly 350 million Muslim Arabs. Most of the world counts heads — and adjusts attitudes accordingly.

    The old anti-Semitism is, of course, another ingredient that accounts for the animus shown Israel . Even sensitive, multicultural Westerners care little that Arab "allies" often portray Jews as "pigs" and "apes" in their state-run media. Odious tracts like "Mein Kampf" still sell briskly in Palestine , and Iranian and Gulf money subsidizes a mini-industry of holocaust denial.

    Finally, as we know from our own southern border, anytime a successful Westernized nation is adjacent to a poorer Third World country, primordial emotions like honor and envy cloud reason. Rather than concede that Western-style democracy, capitalism, personal freedom and the rule of law explain why a prosperous, stable Israel arose from scrub and rock, Palestinians fixate on "Zionism," "colonialism" and "racism."

    No wonder they do. Otherwise they would have to grapple with intractable and indigenous tribalism, gender apartheid, militias and religious fundamentalism, while building an open society based on the rule of law.

    In some ways, Israel 's values and success most resemble the United States .

    And that raises a final question: Is Israel hated by the world for supporting us — or are we hated for supporting it? Or is it both?




    ©2006 Victor Davis Hanson


    I agree that Palestinians have done their fair share of instigating violence and that Israel does have the right to protect itself and it's people, but at times it is hard to tell who the terrorists are. Israel has crossed the line many times to the point where their actions can be considered acts of terrorism. They will never have peace as long as they continue this. When you launch a rocket into an apartment building to kill one terrorist and end up killing 10 innocent cicvilians as well all you have done is added more recruits to the terrorist organization. The terrorist you just killed will be replaced before rigor mortis sets in. So the attack accomplished nothing positive.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • siochansiochan Posts: 304
    know1 wrote:
    Very true. Violence will never end until one side take the high road and doesn't seek revenge.

    THe situation is so dire though neither party or side have any moral ground left to stand on ..................
    " You cannot throw a rope around the neck of an idea" .....Bobby Sands.
  • the question is: who committed an act of war?? the lebanese for abducting the 2 israeli soldiers?? or israel for moving troops/tanks across the border??
    Another habit says it's in love with you
    Another habit says its long overdue
    Another habit like an unwanted friend
    I'm so happy with my righteous self
  • NCfanNCfan Posts: 945
    aBoxOfFear wrote:
    the question is: who committed an act of war?? the lebanese for abducting the 2 israeli soldiers?? or israel for moving troops/tanks across the border??

    To me the is: Why the hell did Lebanon stage a raid into Israel? Did they not think this was going to happen? Everybody points the finger at Israel, but what have they done in this instance?
  • lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    I haven't read or heard anything but the actual report, but from the outside looking in......It's 2 soldiers, why all the bombing? Wouldn't other methods get them back more quickly?

    I don't think Israel is really interested in saving 2 soldiers. They're interested in expanding their lands, and they have been for 40+ years. That's why they're bombing. The 2 soldiers is a pretext for attacks and invasion. Israel knows the US will end up supporting them diplomatically in the UN, and in the end, they'll force a settlement where they'll have more land.

    Meanwhile, the U.S. continues to block a UN Security Council resolution that demands that Israel withdraws from Gaza immediately AND the release of the Israeli soldier AND an end to all rocket attacks on Israeli towns. UN rep Bolton said "Our position remains the same -- we don't see at this point any utility in council action at all."

    When I read this, it's clear to me that the issue is far beyond arguing whether Israel or Palestine is worse...it has to do with my government blocking actions to stop the violence. That's very disturbing. And this is something the U.S. has done countless times in the UN. It's nuts.

    http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/12/145250
  • NCfan wrote:
    To me the is: Why the hell did Lebanon stage a raid into Israel? Did they not think this was going to happen? Everybody points the finger at Israel, but what have they done in this instance?

    i'm not pointing my finger at israel. it does seem a little over-the-top to move across the border with tanks and troops because of 2 kidnapped soldiers. there are other solutions. they upped the ante significantly with this move. now it's lebanon's turn, they have to ante up even more.
    Another habit says it's in love with you
    Another habit says its long overdue
    Another habit like an unwanted friend
    I'm so happy with my righteous self
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    the human race with all it's reasoning is a great disappointment
  • rightonduderightondude Posts: 745
    didn't the US sell Israel much of it's weapons in the first place?

    correct me if I'm wrong...
  • siochansiochan Posts: 304
    aBoxOfFear wrote:
    the question is: who committed an act of war?? the lebanese for abducting the 2 israeli soldiers?? or israel for moving troops/tanks across the border??

    The soldiers where taken after a cross border dispute I believe they where in Lebanese territory.
    " You cannot throw a rope around the neck of an idea" .....Bobby Sands.
  • siochansiochan Posts: 304
    didn't the US sell Israel much of it's weapons in the first place?

    correct me if I'm wrong...

    The US government gives Israel approx 5 billion each year over almost two thirds of this is in the form of military weapons and machines ........ It is american apaches and F16's flying continually over the occupied territories.......... and used to kill and maim.....

    Of course this annual allowance excludes the extra funding given to Israel over the past two years to build their aparthied wall.
    " You cannot throw a rope around the neck of an idea" .....Bobby Sands.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    "It's the same everyday in a hell manmade
    What can be saved, and who will be left to hold her?"
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    The same people who hate the fact that the Mexicans come across to your nation illegally, seem to find a way out that dropping a nation into a piece of the Earth is somehow a-o-k. Your priorities are so far from reality. So so far.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    didn't the US sell Israel much of it's weapons in the first place?

    correct me if I'm wrong...

    That's right. 50% of all U.S. foreign military aid goest to Israel. About $4 billion a year if I remember correctly.
  • rightonduderightondude Posts: 745
    siochan wrote:
    The US government gives Israel approx 5 billion each year over almost two thirds of this is in the form of military weapons and machines ........ It is american apaches and F16's flying continually over the occupied territories.......... and used to kill and maim.....

    Of course this annual allowance excludes the extra funding given to Israel over the past two years to build their aparthied wall.

    That's insane. The US would appear to be the great evil in the world this past century(s)

    Interesting how they barter weapons directly...dear lord.
  • rightonduderightondude Posts: 745
    my2hands wrote:
    the human race with all it's reasoning is a great disappointment

    Naw...the human race is great (beautiful and wonderous). The US is the great disappointment
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    That's insane. The US would appear to be the great evil in the world this past century(s)

    Interesting how they barter weapons directly...dear lord.


    the US has the largest military budget in the world BY FAR (i believe it is equal or more than the rest of the world combined)

    also most of our "foreign aid" goes toward weapons (israel and egypt recieve the most aid)...

    AND, we are BY FAR the largest weapons dealer on the planet


    so much for uncle sam being a saint, he is a fucking weapons dealer
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    That's insane. The US would appear to be the great evil in the world this past century(s)

    Interesting how they barter weapons directly...dear lord.


    they also buy bulldozers from caterpillar then modify them for the idf
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    my2hands wrote:
    the US has the largest military budget in the world BY FAR (i believe it is equal or more than the rest of the world combined)

    also most of our "foreign aid" goes toward weapons (israel and egypt recieve the most aid)...

    AND, we are BY FAR the largest weapons dealer on the planet


    so much for uncle sam being a saint, he is a fucking weapons dealer


    Colombia also receives over a billion in aid and their military has mountains of rape cases, murder cases, execution cases, kidnapping cases, theft at gunpoint cases, destruction of property cases....against it. good thing their president gave the military immunity.

    also, by US law it is illegal to give aid to Israel as they have a secret nuke program
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,940
    know1 wrote:
    Very true. Violence will never end until one side take the high road and doesn't seek revenge.

    And gets trampled on to pieces.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Naw...the human race is great (beautiful and wonderous). The US is the great disappointment


    ask the people in nagasaki, or hiroshima, or auschwitz, or the sudan, or the native americans, or the black slaves, or the people sold into the sex slave trade how beautiful the human race is


    human are capable of great compassion and beauty towards one another, BUT we cannot overlook or forget our great downfalls

    shit, i think 50 MILLION people were killed in WW2... that was only 60 years ago? when is the next one? has it started? when will the 20,000 nuclear weapons on this planet be utilized?
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