Attn: you cant say Obama is popular because he is black

KDH12

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

BTW, you say that he is not getting votes because he is black, but then read this guys post, from like two above you:




Does that not read as, "i'm voting for obama because he is BLACK", to you?

I don't know if you think you are quoting me or what, but i never said
"he is only at where he is at because he is black"

How people choose their vote for president in America is a highly complex EMOTIONAL issue that usualy has only a cursory relationship to policy and issues and is much more about how people "FEEL" about a candidate. Look at the post i quoted. Obama being black is certainly not the ONLY thing cited as a reason for liking the guy, but youd have to be an imbecile not to take away from that statement that at the end of the day Obama is getting brownie points for being black (was that a bad joke? brownies?) ...

[btw, the comments made are also latent racist remarks, because the expilcit presumption is that people of color are more compassionate because they have been exposed to more opression as a people. Are white people better at economics because they have been around money longer as a people? And to rage against tm, i am NOT bashing you. sorry to pull your post up for this example, but it makes a good one. i know you are not racist trash or anything. this is just latent cultural conditioning. we all have it in degrees.]

So does this kind of thought go on in the subconscious of some most or all Americans? Absolutely?

Did this poster intentionaly mean to say he was swayed towards obama because of his skin color? Hell no.

But is that the gut truth behind it?
Undeniably.

So what makes me such a bad person for pointing that out?




[oh. there is also latent SEXISM in that post. The guy unwittingly puts out the position that basicaly only Men should cry in politics, because when a woman does it, it is somehow an embarrasement to her sex, because (this is deduction) women are known to cry a lot, and for hillary to do that is just using her sex, and it is somehow taboo. Now if obama cried, would it be manipulative? or would he be a "compassionate" man? So i get railed for being a racist POS (not your words, but your implication), and then we have honest unwitting posters who are expressing culturaly engrained latent racism and sexism, and they get kudos for making good points? Wow. Yay me! I feel so thrilled to be in this discussion.]

A bit defensive??????

I was mostly commenting on this statement....

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

But this whole "change" thing, and his "not a washington insider" thing ... imho, it only goes over because of the guys skin color.

DriftingByTheStorm

KDH12 wrote:

A bit defensive??????/

A bit lacking in rational argument to my response, perhaps?
You don't have a REAL reply to that?

[counter edit]

Abookamongstthemany

jeffbr wrote:

He even admits in a self-deprecating way that he hasn't done much in the Senate, and was embarrassed by his stardom that preceded him. He tried to keep a low profile. He isn't someone like you want us to believe, that rode into the Senate and started kicking ass.

And again, anyone campaigning for someone and getting on national TV to do so better know why.

That's my biggest problem with Obama supporters. They always give some vague reply as to why they support him or say how he gets's people excited(so does the superbowl or the lastest celebrity scandal) OR how he's a uniter (sound familiar?)

I would like to know...what is to great about Obama's platform? What makes his plans standout or even better than Hillary's? What has he done since in office that makes you a proud supporter? What do you think specifically will be accomplaished once he's in office?

ledvedderman

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

That's my biggest problem with Obama supporters. They always give some vague reply as to why they support him or say how he gets's people excited(so does the superbowl or the lastest celebrity scandal) OR how he's a uniter (sound familiar?)

I would like to know...what is to great about Obama's platform? What makes his plans standout or even better than Hillary's? What has he done since in office that makes you a proud supporter? What do you think specifically will be accomplaished once he's in office?

No disrespect to you Abook, but many of us Obama supporters have done the exact same thing you are asking in countless of other threads. It's really getting old to have to answer this to everyone that has a problem because they think Obama supporters are morons. Many of us have done our homework, but it's getting old to have to keep explaining ourself.

Abookamongstthemany

blackredyellow wrote:

When? and to whom?

A whole bunch of people, obviously. Bush served 2 terms.

After the post 9/11 hype, many people thought he was a great leader who brought us all together as a country and even unified Congress in a bi-partisan effort to fight the bad guys. To deny this is being silly...we all lived through that period. Remember what happened to the Dixie Chicks for dissing him?(sometimes it feels like that for us who speak out about Obama here, not on the same scale but met with a lot of anger and resentment over a differing opinion)

The same comparison can be made with Obama uniting everyone against the big bad republicans now. It seems you're either with us or against us by saying 'vote for anyone else and you're really voting for McCain' I can't stand that kind of crap.

Abookamongstthemany

ledvedderman wrote:

No disrespect to you Abook, but many of us Obama supporters have done the exact same thing you are asking in countless of other threads. It's really getting old to have to answer this to everyone that has a problem because they think Obama supporters are morons. Many of us have done our homework, but it's getting old to have to keep explaining ourself.

First, I don't think you're morons. Second, I still feel the replies are vague at best. I don't know what specifically you like about his proposals. And I don't know what makes his standout from Hillary's that much.

RainDog

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

First, I don't think you're morons. Second, I still feel the replies are vague at best. I don't know what specifically you like about his proposals. And I don't know what makes his standout from Hillary's that much.

Nor, overall, are his policies all that far from Kucinich. The difference? The ability to sell it.

Abookamongstthemany

RainDog wrote:

Nor, overall, are his policies all that far from Kucinich. The difference? The ability to sell it.

Yes, they are very different from Kucinich's. C'mon! Environment, Defense, Foreign Policy, Healthcare, Education, Dept of Peace

I was thinking of making a thread with a link to ontheisssues so we could all compare candidates plans side by side. I'm a bit busy with something at the moment, so it will have to be later.

Nevermind

blackredyellow wrote:

When? and to whom?

Before he was elected. He had talked about a humble foreign policy and ended up doing the opposite. People will say anything to get elected including Obama.

callen

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

First, I don't think you're morons. Second, I still feel the replies are vague at best. I don't know what specifically you like about his proposals. And I don't know what makes his standout from Hillary's that much.

Positon on abortion, position on gay rights, postion on this war. Think that should do it.

Abookamongstthemany

callen wrote:

Positon on abortion, position on gay rights, postion on this war. Think that should do it.

Hillary's stance is better on gay rights,imo.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Civil_Rights.htm#Headlines

Here's the war link:

http://www.ontheissues.org/War_+_Peace.htm#Headlines

What points of Obama's do you like better than Hillary's?

callen

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Hillary's stance is better on gay rights,imo.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Civil_Rights.htm#Headlines

Here's the war link:

http://www.ontheissues.org/War_+_Peace.htm#Headlines

What points of Obama's do you like better than Hillary's?

My post was in relation to the thread....liking Obama cause he's black, and my point simply is that its his postions that I agree with not that he's black. Specifics as to why I prefer Obama over Hillary, think we've had enough of Clintons and Bushies. I admire what Obama's accomplished in his life with what he was given. I like the way he goes right after the republican spin machine when they attack him. I like how he defends himself against Clinton, along with his political strategy versus Clintons, Obama's healthcare plan versus Clintons....anyway this isn't what we were discussing on this thread.....oh wait it is....Obama's the better candidate period.

I think there are lots of white folks that are very uncomfortable with a black man as president....and to be honest..this is a bonus.

cornnifer

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

What points of Obama's do you like better than Hillary's?

Whereas many of the differences are subtle:

i prefer his healthcare plan
i prefer his diplomacy ideas
i prefer his education ideas
i prefer his opposition to iraq from the giddyup and his plan to end it carefully and responsibly
i prefer his views on affordable college education
i prefer his "bottom up" approach
i prefer his emphasis on individual responsibility...
there is much more...















and none if it has to with the fact that he's black.

Abookamongstthemany

callen wrote:

.

I think there are lots of white folks that are very uncomfortable with a black man as president....and to be honest..this is a bonus.

How is it a bonus?

DixieN

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Hillary has a penis, and it's larger than Obama's

And this is okay to say. Right.

DixieN

MrSmith wrote:

Are people on this board being racist when they say (often) that to be president you have to be part of the WMA? Is it racist to say that George Bush wouldnt be president if he wasnt white?

I agree that the statement was wrong (factually not morally) but not racist.

arent you the guy that thinks people who are against illegal immigration are all racists? thats as much as a moronic statement as what she said.


on a side note: what is Clinton up to? is she trying for the hidden racist vote? is she playing the "press hates me" card again? is Ferrarp sabotaging her? I'm getting all crazy with conspiracy theories!

Clinton said nothing. It was Ferraro that said that the media is sexist. And it certainly is a lot more sexist than it is racist. Which at least is some progress. The day of the Texas/Ohio races, someone who caught on to the fact that the SNL footage would do Hillary some good drew a cartoon of her as a baby crying because she had made a point bound to resonate for her. When do we see a drawing of Obama as a baby crying because he's made a reasonably good point for himself? Never. And we never will. You could not go there with Obama. For one thing, men are rarely belittled by the media by being called little boys for scoring political hits, and two...there is the race thing. Twice the insulation.

Also, I do want to say that I hardly think that Obama is where he is solely by virtue of race. That is not true. He's a very talented politician. It's a factor, but his gender far outweighs his race. He's just got a double hedge. And I don't really blame him for exploiting it. But, at the same time, the playing field is hardly level; and, I can't help but notice it.

DixieN

JD Sal wrote:

I agree with Bill Maher on the Clinton haters. She certainly isn't the best motivator, and you may dislike her personality or disagree with her on the issues, but she's not a hatable person. If you hate Hillary, it's more about you than it is about her.

About Ferraro's comments, I think she may be right to an extent. How much of the black vote does Obama get? In that respect he may not be where he is without that overwhelming support.

And more than being about "you" if you hate Hillary, imo...it really is about having had your feelings shaped. The Republicans have had many years with which to mold those feelings and perceptions. However much I don't like Rove, Cheney, et al., I can't help but say that Edward Bernays is doing a little victory dance somewhere...I suspect rather hot.

bootlegger10

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Obviously we will never know, sense he is clearly not white,
but it's just something i find interesting to speculate on.

Actually, there was a white candidate named John Edwards who was more Democratic and for the people than Obama and Hilary. He was ignored. I'm guessing because he was not black or a woman.

beachdweller

MrSmith wrote:

if you do you are a racist. Apparently.

this is a joke, the issue has nothing to do with racism, it has to do with the Hillary Clinton campaign and it's surrogates have nothing to discuss in regards to policy, and personal attacks is all that's left. Losing much respect for her daily. Tried to play the optimist, look at her with a clean slate (somewhat), but I was for Obama from the beginning, and now if she somehow steals the nomination, I don't think I'll vote for her, come Nadar, come Nadar, Nadar come come, lol

On another note, Republicans will get hammered in FL, it's there fault the votes aren't being counted, not the Dem's. Republican state government controlled government made the changes.

DixieN

rage against tm wrote:

looking at this from a native/white female pt of view, i voted for Obama because he seems to be about his buisness-changing politics in dc, understanding what it means to work to better yourself, understands adversity, seems honest and seems to have a more mature-controled persona + he says he will talk with contentious nations (how else are we going to get along?) bombs sure aren't helping.from a racial stand point all i can say is W>M>M> has ruled here for over 200 yrs and where are we? people of colors may have more compassion for poverty, suffering, injustice, a better hope for fairness? we have walked the walk.I wasn't crazy about hil from the start sensorship issues? then she started bitchin, crying(that's an embarressment to any woman trying to do a professional job + manipulative) then there was that crack about cleaning closets? who is she kidding? she's had house help almost forever.. a lawyer-governor's wife-first lady. lets not kid ourselves she isn't comon folk. then it got to be hil the menapausal maniac Who will answer the phone at 3 am? jeckle or hide? and don't say i'm sexist cause i'm a fem, she clearly needs a patch or something cause she isn't in control of her emotions or she is the most cuniving bitch i've ever seen. and poor ralph i just couldn't chance another 4 rep. years.

I also am part native. I am also happy to see a person who is not cut out of the same old cloth running, and very likely making it. I can't believe the female hate I see in your post. Menopausal maniac? She's sixty. She's not menopausal. She got over 10 years ago. You might consider doing the same. She's not common folk. But, neither is any person who can raise multiple millions in a month. The only reason that she and Obama can even think of running for the office of president is because neither one of them is anything close to "common folk." It doesn't matter whether you're female or not; plenty of women are sexist, including women who say they can't vote for another woman because a man would protect them more. They tell me they are feminists. Right. Hillary's a conniving "bitch" because of what? And, she didn't cry. You're passing on propaganda. She teared up. I thought she was a cyborg for not not showing emotion. Finally she shows a glimmer and now she's a manipulative bitch. She can't win, no matter what she does or doesn't do with some of you. Her biggest crime is being a successful and powerful woman, so far as I can see. I don't think she's a saint, but I don't see her as the second coming of Satan. What I do see is a lot of people saying things that are just not true...like she cried to manipulate her way into something. And she didn't even cry. I would like to see some objectivity injected into the conversation about her. Of course, I would like to see a lot of things I'll never see.