BTW, you say that he is not getting votes because he is black, but then read this guys post, from like two above you:
Does that not read as, "i'm voting for obama because he is BLACK", to you?
I don't know if you think you are quoting me or what, but i never said
"he is only at where he is at because he is black"
How people choose their vote for president in America is a highly complex EMOTIONAL issue that usualy has only a cursory relationship to policy and issues and is much more about how people "FEEL" about a candidate. Look at the post i quoted. Obama being black is certainly not the ONLY thing cited as a reason for liking the guy, but youd have to be an imbecile not to take away from that statement that at the end of the day Obama is getting brownie points for being black (was that a bad joke? brownies?) ...
[btw, the comments made are also latent racist remarks, because the expilcit presumption is that people of color are more compassionate because they have been exposed to more opression as a people. Are white people better at economics because they have been around money longer as a people? And to rage against tm, i am NOT bashing you. sorry to pull your post up for this example, but it makes a good one. i know you are not racist trash or anything. this is just latent cultural conditioning. we all have it in degrees.]
So does this kind of thought go on in the subconscious of some most or all Americans? Absolutely?
Did this poster intentionaly mean to say he was swayed towards obama because of his skin color? Hell no.
But is that the gut truth behind it?
Undeniably.
So what makes me such a bad person for pointing that out?
[oh. there is also latent SEXISM in that post. The guy unwittingly puts out the position that basicaly only Men should cry in politics, because when a woman does it, it is somehow an embarrasement to her sex, because (this is deduction) women are known to cry a lot, and for hillary to do that is just using her sex, and it is somehow taboo. Now if obama cried, would it be manipulative? or would he be a "compassionate" man? So i get railed for being a racist POS (not your words, but your implication), and then we have honest unwitting posters who are expressing culturaly engrained latent racism and sexism, and they get kudos for making good points? Wow. Yay me! I feel so thrilled to be in this discussion.]
He even admits in a self-deprecating way that he hasn't done much in the Senate, and was embarrassed by his stardom that preceded him. He tried to keep a low profile. He isn't someone like you want us to believe, that rode into the Senate and started kicking ass.
And again, anyone campaigning for someone and getting on national TV to do so better know why.
That's my biggest problem with Obama supporters. They always give some vague reply as to why they support him or say how he gets's people excited(so does the superbowl or the lastest celebrity scandal) OR how he's a uniter (sound familiar?)
I would like to know...what is to great about Obama's platform? What makes his plans standout or even better than Hillary's? What has he done since in office that makes you a proud supporter? What do you think specifically will be accomplaished once he's in office?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
That's my biggest problem with Obama supporters. They always give some vague reply as to why they support him or say how he gets's people excited(so does the superbowl or the lastest celebrity scandal) OR how he's a uniter (sound familiar?)
I would like to know...what is to great about Obama's platform? What makes his plans standout or even better than Hillary's? What has he done since in office that makes you a proud supporter? What do you think specifically will be accomplaished once he's in office?
No disrespect to you Abook, but many of us Obama supporters have done the exact same thing you are asking in countless of other threads. It's really getting old to have to answer this to everyone that has a problem because they think Obama supporters are morons. Many of us have done our homework, but it's getting old to have to keep explaining ourself.
A whole bunch of people, obviously. Bush served 2 terms.
After the post 9/11 hype, many people thought he was a great leader who brought us all together as a country and even unified Congress in a bi-partisan effort to fight the bad guys. To deny this is being silly...we all lived through that period. Remember what happened to the Dixie Chicks for dissing him?(sometimes it feels like that for us who speak out about Obama here, not on the same scale but met with a lot of anger and resentment over a differing opinion)
The same comparison can be made with Obama uniting everyone against the big bad republicans now. It seems you're either with us or against us by saying 'vote for anyone else and you're really voting for McCain' I can't stand that kind of crap.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
No disrespect to you Abook, but many of us Obama supporters have done the exact same thing you are asking in countless of other threads. It's really getting old to have to answer this to everyone that has a problem because they think Obama supporters are morons. Many of us have done our homework, but it's getting old to have to keep explaining ourself.
First, I don't think you're morons. Second, I still feel the replies are vague at best. I don't know what specifically you like about his proposals. And I don't know what makes his standout from Hillary's that much.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
First, I don't think you're morons. Second, I still feel the replies are vague at best. I don't know what specifically you like about his proposals. And I don't know what makes his standout from Hillary's that much.
Nor, overall, are his policies all that far from Kucinich. The difference? The ability to sell it.
Nor, overall, are his policies all that far from Kucinich. The difference? The ability to sell it.
Yes, they are very different from Kucinich's. C'mon! Environment, Defense, Foreign Policy, Healthcare, Education, Dept of Peace
I was thinking of making a thread with a link to ontheisssues so we could all compare candidates plans side by side. I'm a bit busy with something at the moment, so it will have to be later.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Before he was elected. He had talked about a humble foreign policy and ended up doing the opposite. People will say anything to get elected including Obama.
First, I don't think you're morons. Second, I still feel the replies are vague at best. I don't know what specifically you like about his proposals. And I don't know what makes his standout from Hillary's that much.
Positon on abortion, position on gay rights, postion on this war. Think that should do it.
What points of Obama's do you like better than Hillary's?
My post was in relation to the thread....liking Obama cause he's black, and my point simply is that its his postions that I agree with not that he's black. Specifics as to why I prefer Obama over Hillary, think we've had enough of Clintons and Bushies. I admire what Obama's accomplished in his life with what he was given. I like the way he goes right after the republican spin machine when they attack him. I like how he defends himself against Clinton, along with his political strategy versus Clintons, Obama's healthcare plan versus Clintons....anyway this isn't what we were discussing on this thread.....oh wait it is....Obama's the better candidate period.
I think there are lots of white folks that are very uncomfortable with a black man as president....and to be honest..this is a bonus.
What points of Obama's do you like better than Hillary's?
Whereas many of the differences are subtle:
i prefer his healthcare plan
i prefer his diplomacy ideas
i prefer his education ideas
i prefer his opposition to iraq from the giddyup and his plan to end it carefully and responsibly
i prefer his views on affordable college education
i prefer his "bottom up" approach
i prefer his emphasis on individual responsibility...
there is much more...
and none if it has to with the fact that he's black.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Are people on this board being racist when they say (often) that to be president you have to be part of the WMA? Is it racist to say that George Bush wouldnt be president if he wasnt white?
I agree that the statement was wrong (factually not morally) but not racist.
arent you the guy that thinks people who are against illegal immigration are all racists? thats as much as a moronic statement as what she said.
on a side note: what is Clinton up to? is she trying for the hidden racist vote? is she playing the "press hates me" card again? is Ferrarp sabotaging her? I'm getting all crazy with conspiracy theories!
Clinton said nothing. It was Ferraro that said that the media is sexist. And it certainly is a lot more sexist than it is racist. Which at least is some progress. The day of the Texas/Ohio races, someone who caught on to the fact that the SNL footage would do Hillary some good drew a cartoon of her as a baby crying because she had made a point bound to resonate for her. When do we see a drawing of Obama as a baby crying because he's made a reasonably good point for himself? Never. And we never will. You could not go there with Obama. For one thing, men are rarely belittled by the media by being called little boys for scoring political hits, and two...there is the race thing. Twice the insulation.
Also, I do want to say that I hardly think that Obama is where he is solely by virtue of race. That is not true. He's a very talented politician. It's a factor, but his gender far outweighs his race. He's just got a double hedge. And I don't really blame him for exploiting it. But, at the same time, the playing field is hardly level; and, I can't help but notice it.
I agree with Bill Maher on the Clinton haters. She certainly isn't the best motivator, and you may dislike her personality or disagree with her on the issues, but she's not a hatable person. If you hate Hillary, it's more about you than it is about her.
About Ferraro's comments, I think she may be right to an extent. How much of the black vote does Obama get? In that respect he may not be where he is without that overwhelming support.
And more than being about "you" if you hate Hillary, imo...it really is about having had your feelings shaped. The Republicans have had many years with which to mold those feelings and perceptions. However much I don't like Rove, Cheney, et al., I can't help but say that Edward Bernays is doing a little victory dance somewhere...I suspect rather hot.
Obviously we will never know, sense he is clearly not white,
but it's just something i find interesting to speculate on.
Actually, there was a white candidate named John Edwards who was more Democratic and for the people than Obama and Hilary. He was ignored. I'm guessing because he was not black or a woman.
this is a joke, the issue has nothing to do with racism, it has to do with the Hillary Clinton campaign and it's surrogates have nothing to discuss in regards to policy, and personal attacks is all that's left. Losing much respect for her daily. Tried to play the optimist, look at her with a clean slate (somewhat), but I was for Obama from the beginning, and now if she somehow steals the nomination, I don't think I'll vote for her, come Nadar, come Nadar, Nadar come come, lol
On another note, Republicans will get hammered in FL, it's there fault the votes aren't being counted, not the Dem's. Republican state government controlled government made the changes.
"Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)
looking at this from a native/white female pt of view, i voted for Obama because he seems to be about his buisness-changing politics in dc, understanding what it means to work to better yourself, understands adversity, seems honest and seems to have a more mature-controled persona + he says he will talk with contentious nations (how else are we going to get along?) bombs sure aren't helping.from a racial stand point all i can say is W>M>M> has ruled here for over 200 yrs and where are we? people of colors may have more compassion for poverty, suffering, injustice, a better hope for fairness? we have walked the walk.I wasn't crazy about hil from the start sensorship issues? then she started bitchin, crying(that's an embarressment to any woman trying to do a professional job + manipulative) then there was that crack about cleaning closets? who is she kidding? she's had house help almost forever.. a lawyer-governor's wife-first lady. lets not kid ourselves she isn't comon folk. then it got to be hil the menapausal maniac Who will answer the phone at 3 am? jeckle or hide? and don't say i'm sexist cause i'm a fem, she clearly needs a patch or something cause she isn't in control of her emotions or she is the most cuniving bitch i've ever seen. and poor ralph i just couldn't chance another 4 rep. years.
I also am part native. I am also happy to see a person who is not cut out of the same old cloth running, and very likely making it. I can't believe the female hate I see in your post. Menopausal maniac? She's sixty. She's not menopausal. She got over 10 years ago. You might consider doing the same. She's not common folk. But, neither is any person who can raise multiple millions in a month. The only reason that she and Obama can even think of running for the office of president is because neither one of them is anything close to "common folk." It doesn't matter whether you're female or not; plenty of women are sexist, including women who say they can't vote for another woman because a man would protect them more. They tell me they are feminists. Right. Hillary's a conniving "bitch" because of what? And, she didn't cry. You're passing on propaganda. She teared up. I thought she was a cyborg for not not showing emotion. Finally she shows a glimmer and now she's a manipulative bitch. She can't win, no matter what she does or doesn't do with some of you. Her biggest crime is being a successful and powerful woman, so far as I can see. I don't think she's a saint, but I don't see her as the second coming of Satan. What I do see is a lot of people saying things that are just not true...like she cried to manipulate her way into something. And she didn't even cry. I would like to see some objectivity injected into the conversation about her. Of course, I would like to see a lot of things I'll never see.
i prefer his healthcare plan
i prefer his diplomacy ideas
i prefer his education ideas
i prefer his opposition to iraq from the giddyup and his plan to end it carefully and responsibly
i prefer his views on affordable college education
i prefer his "bottom up" approach
i prefer his emphasis on individual responsibility...
there is much more...
and none if it has to with the fact that he's black.
What if you geniuninely believe her to have been involved in felony international drug trafficking with the CIA, and also a conspirator to murder? Oh, and you think she is an unchecked global government elitist (and acording to Larry Nichols, atleast, a former card carrying communist) who has aims of selling the United States out to the "global union" just like Gordon Brown did last week selling Britain to the EU ... all without the vote of the people?
Is it stil me, or if the allegations are accurate, is the hate justified?
Google "clinton mena" and "vince foster murder", for starters.
Are you justified in hating others based on beliefs? Ever? What do you actually know? Not much. If any of what you say were true, wouldn't Obama be on it? He's got better sources than you do, I am inclined to think, since he is, after all running for president, and you are not. If I believe you are Satan, am I justified in hating you? Based on a belief? The belief might not be the most rational thing I could subscribe to, might it not?
first it was America was not ready for a black president...
now that he is winning they say it is because he is black...
fucking hilarious
not to mention 51% of the population is female, and an even larger % of voters are female... so if we are talking demographics based on gender/race Hillary has a clear advantage...
Bill Clinton will do anything to win his 3rd term...
51% percent of the population may be female, but at least half hates Hillary, whereas at least African Americans are not debating whether Obama is African American enough for whatever reason. I've heard that Clinton is not feminist enough because she didn't divorce Bill and therefore worth disliking. I've heard that she's too much the feminist, and therefore not worth supporting (and disliking). These women think that Hillary's not woman enough to be president for one reason or another.
But, point made...I do think a lot of people don't like Hillary because they actually don't like Bill. It'd be nice to have them come out and just say that. That would make sense and be at least somewhat fair. You don't want to see him in the WH. I could get that. But the projected stuff....that bugs to no end.
Personally, I never disliked Bill. I thought Monica-gate was too bad, but his own business. He was a pretty good president.
Give me a break. Obama, whether you support or don't support him. Is a black man running for President of the United States, all the what if he was a she and she was white, or he was a jewish, hispanic, asian, irish or white woman he wouldn't have a chance. It didn't make any sense when Ferraro said and it make less sense as it goes through repeats.
BOTTOMLINE, Hillary's strategy was to tap into people's pride. The people of Pennsylvania who were grateful just to be working. What better way to do this than to have Ferraro associate Obama with affirmative action. So the underlying message to the people of PA is - look - here is another affirmative action black person taking a white man's job. People whether they are racist or not can relate to that message.
The strategy will work because just like Ohio they have lost jobs and industry to NFATA. People forget NFATA is Clinton's doing, she's not going to bring quality jobs back to PA, OH or MI. Hell she to invested to even try. These people don't need another Walmart, Target, Home Depot or Lowe's because no one has the extra money to go shopping or build any damn thing. The only thing keeping OH afloat is the military base and its supporting function. MI had the Great Lakes and easy transport to/from with Canada. Once the Superhighway is completed, MI can be bypassed or become a truck stop because the bulk of the industry will be coming out of Mexico to Canada and through the Gulf to South America. PA your on your own, most of your resources have been tapped out, your waterways are of minimal importance to commerce and there's no military advantage. Politically, Hillary knew Pennsylvania would have been expendable had the race not been this close. She had nothing prepared for you, so she gives you the race card.
The stories about both Obama and Clinton both posturing about NAFTA are probably both true. NAFTA is actually not the evil that most people think. Yes, we've lost jobs due to NAFTA, but more jobs have been created than lost under NAFTA. Both the candidates will play this card to win your vote; and NAFTA just isn't the walking plague it's portrayed to be. She hasn't given anyone the race card. She said nothing, except that she disagreed with with the statements made and she let the person saying them go.
i agree with much of your assessment here, with a few minor exceptions. She is definitely, i think trying to associate Obama with affirmative action to woo voters. Where i disagree with your assessment, in regards to this, is on the issue of one's ability to relate to this tactic "whether they are racist or not". The fear of affirmative action, in and of itself, is perpetuated by an institutionally racist portrayal of affirmative action, therfore, IMO, anyone buying into clinton's ploy here is buying into it because of a subtle racism they may not even be aware of. Clinton's strategy here is to tap into that subtle racism and turn it into votes. Her strategy here is, itself, racist and dispicable. (BTW Obama's success has absolutely dick to do with affirmative action, the notion is laughably ridiculous).
The second exception i have, is based more on hope. i'm not sure the strategy will work. It very well may, which is sad, but at this point, i'm giving voters the benefit of the doubt that they will see right through this shit. This strategy may end up hurting her. Part of Obama's success is, in part, because of his ability to trancend race and this type of divisiveness. People, i think, especially young people, are tired of it. He has done it quite well.
The bottom line is, really, if Obama was a White fella, he would have had this nomination locked up along time ago! Because he is Black, and because this is still the United States, he has had to work even harder to get to where he is. The fact that he has done so well encourages me as to how far we've come as a nation in regards to issues of race. The fact that we still have someone like clinton and her surrogates using these types of tactics, to some degree of success, proves that we still have a ways to go.
Of Obama was a white fella, he might well still be ahead of Clinton. What does your state senate look like? What does our Congress look like? If you elected women proportionately to the population, about 51% of Senators should be women. 51% of Representatives. Are they? No where near. Obama's rise is encouraging in terms of where we are as a nation in terms of race. However, I'm not too happy with where we are as a nation in terms of opportunities afforded to women and playing fields they are placed on, which are very slanted.
Question: If the novelity of Obama's success so far is because he is black. Why wasn't Jackson more successful?
Jackson wasn't historically in the right place at the right time, plus you can argue that he ran as a Black candidate, essentially, for other Blacks. Obama is not making the mistake of running only for a subset of people. And he is in the right place at the right time to be able to do so.
A bit lacking in rational argument to my response, perhaps?
You don't have a REAL reply to that?
[counter edit]
Counter edit....? is this about keeping score.....
What REAL response were you looking for?
You agree with Ferraro and I don't agree with either of you.
What is the point of carrying on a debate in some online forum like this..... uhh no point that is why I left it alone.
However you want a REAL answer..... this is what I believe.
You say that Obama is only where he is because he is black....
I say what if Obama was not running and it was just Clinton and Edwards, I think that Edwards would have been in the same exact position more less that Obama is in.... he is white, but a similar message..... therefore it has nothing to do with "skin tone" as you suggest.
Don't get distracted by his skin color THAT IS WHAT CLINTON WANTS YOU TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Positon on abortion, position on gay rights, postion on this war. Think that should do it.
How are Barack's different from Hillary's? It doesn't do it for me since I've been to both of their websites and find that for all practical intents and purposes, they hold the very same positions, particularly on abortion and gay rights. Obama has flopped around on his position the war...at one point even saying that his position was similar to Bush's. Now he's back to saying it's lightyears from it. That's a politician for you. They all flop around to tell you whatever it is you want to hear. Clinton, included.
Personally, I never disliked Bill. I thought Monica-gate was too bad, but his own business. He was a pretty good president.
The fact that Monica blew Bill in the Oval office, though heinous, i was almost willing to write off, as you have, as his own personal business and no real concern of mine. It's the lying, perjuring, evidence tampering business i have a problem with.
Furthermore, there is a problem with comparative perception. Sandwhiched between the bushes, Bill looks pretty good, but, so would you or i. Slick Willy's administration is grossly overrated. He was mediocre at best and the continuous scandals make it, IMO, less than so.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
i prefer his healthcare plan
i prefer his diplomacy ideas
i prefer his education ideas
i prefer his opposition to iraq from the giddyup and his plan to end it carefully and responsibly
i prefer his views on affordable college education
i prefer his "bottom up" approach
i prefer his emphasis on individual responsibility...
there is much more...
and none if it has to with the fact that he's black.
Most of those ideas are identical to Clintons. None of it may have to do with the fact he's Black. Your preferences are yours...but, I don't see where they come from. I do not prefer his health care plan. It will cost way more than Clinton's in the long run. Her plan is honest up front...you need to sign up, period. Somewhere. Just like with car insurance. You need this. Your state needs it. Your country needs it. If people can choose whether to sign up or not, many won't. I read a statistic that says that no voluntary plan will encompass more than 70% participation. That means 30% of everybody won't be covered. When they show up at the ER and their condition costs thousands to diagnose and treat...who's paying for that? It'll be you. At a much higher rate than if you build it in. Cheaper sounding is sometime just cheap...in the sense of being no bargain.
Comments
A bit defensive??????
I was mostly commenting on this statement....
A bit lacking in rational argument to my response, perhaps?
You don't have a REAL reply to that?
[counter edit]
If I opened it now would you not understand?
That's my biggest problem with Obama supporters. They always give some vague reply as to why they support him or say how he gets's people excited(so does the superbowl or the lastest celebrity scandal) OR how he's a uniter (sound familiar?)
I would like to know...what is to great about Obama's platform? What makes his plans standout or even better than Hillary's? What has he done since in office that makes you a proud supporter? What do you think specifically will be accomplaished once he's in office?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
No disrespect to you Abook, but many of us Obama supporters have done the exact same thing you are asking in countless of other threads. It's really getting old to have to answer this to everyone that has a problem because they think Obama supporters are morons. Many of us have done our homework, but it's getting old to have to keep explaining ourself.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
A whole bunch of people, obviously. Bush served 2 terms.
After the post 9/11 hype, many people thought he was a great leader who brought us all together as a country and even unified Congress in a bi-partisan effort to fight the bad guys. To deny this is being silly...we all lived through that period. Remember what happened to the Dixie Chicks for dissing him?(sometimes it feels like that for us who speak out about Obama here, not on the same scale but met with a lot of anger and resentment over a differing opinion)
The same comparison can be made with Obama uniting everyone against the big bad republicans now. It seems you're either with us or against us by saying 'vote for anyone else and you're really voting for McCain' I can't stand that kind of crap.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
First, I don't think you're morons. Second, I still feel the replies are vague at best. I don't know what specifically you like about his proposals. And I don't know what makes his standout from Hillary's that much.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Yes, they are very different from Kucinich's. C'mon! Environment, Defense, Foreign Policy, Healthcare, Education, Dept of Peace
I was thinking of making a thread with a link to ontheisssues so we could all compare candidates plans side by side. I'm a bit busy with something at the moment, so it will have to be later.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Hillary's stance is better on gay rights,imo.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Civil_Rights.htm#Headlines
Here's the war link:
http://www.ontheissues.org/War_+_Peace.htm#Headlines
What points of Obama's do you like better than Hillary's?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
My post was in relation to the thread....liking Obama cause he's black, and my point simply is that its his postions that I agree with not that he's black. Specifics as to why I prefer Obama over Hillary, think we've had enough of Clintons and Bushies. I admire what Obama's accomplished in his life with what he was given. I like the way he goes right after the republican spin machine when they attack him. I like how he defends himself against Clinton, along with his political strategy versus Clintons, Obama's healthcare plan versus Clintons....anyway this isn't what we were discussing on this thread.....oh wait it is....Obama's the better candidate period.
I think there are lots of white folks that are very uncomfortable with a black man as president....and to be honest..this is a bonus.
Whereas many of the differences are subtle:
i prefer his healthcare plan
i prefer his diplomacy ideas
i prefer his education ideas
i prefer his opposition to iraq from the giddyup and his plan to end it carefully and responsibly
i prefer his views on affordable college education
i prefer his "bottom up" approach
i prefer his emphasis on individual responsibility...
there is much more...
and none if it has to with the fact that he's black.
How is it a bonus?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And this is okay to say. Right.
Clinton said nothing. It was Ferraro that said that the media is sexist. And it certainly is a lot more sexist than it is racist. Which at least is some progress. The day of the Texas/Ohio races, someone who caught on to the fact that the SNL footage would do Hillary some good drew a cartoon of her as a baby crying because she had made a point bound to resonate for her. When do we see a drawing of Obama as a baby crying because he's made a reasonably good point for himself? Never. And we never will. You could not go there with Obama. For one thing, men are rarely belittled by the media by being called little boys for scoring political hits, and two...there is the race thing. Twice the insulation.
Also, I do want to say that I hardly think that Obama is where he is solely by virtue of race. That is not true. He's a very talented politician. It's a factor, but his gender far outweighs his race. He's just got a double hedge. And I don't really blame him for exploiting it. But, at the same time, the playing field is hardly level; and, I can't help but notice it.
And more than being about "you" if you hate Hillary, imo...it really is about having had your feelings shaped. The Republicans have had many years with which to mold those feelings and perceptions. However much I don't like Rove, Cheney, et al., I can't help but say that Edward Bernays is doing a little victory dance somewhere...I suspect rather hot.
Actually, there was a white candidate named John Edwards who was more Democratic and for the people than Obama and Hilary. He was ignored. I'm guessing because he was not black or a woman.
this is a joke, the issue has nothing to do with racism, it has to do with the Hillary Clinton campaign and it's surrogates have nothing to discuss in regards to policy, and personal attacks is all that's left. Losing much respect for her daily. Tried to play the optimist, look at her with a clean slate (somewhat), but I was for Obama from the beginning, and now if she somehow steals the nomination, I don't think I'll vote for her, come Nadar, come Nadar, Nadar come come, lol
On another note, Republicans will get hammered in FL, it's there fault the votes aren't being counted, not the Dem's. Republican state government controlled government made the changes.
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
I also am part native. I am also happy to see a person who is not cut out of the same old cloth running, and very likely making it. I can't believe the female hate I see in your post. Menopausal maniac? She's sixty. She's not menopausal. She got over 10 years ago. You might consider doing the same. She's not common folk. But, neither is any person who can raise multiple millions in a month. The only reason that she and Obama can even think of running for the office of president is because neither one of them is anything close to "common folk." It doesn't matter whether you're female or not; plenty of women are sexist, including women who say they can't vote for another woman because a man would protect them more. They tell me they are feminists. Right. Hillary's a conniving "bitch" because of what? And, she didn't cry. You're passing on propaganda. She teared up. I thought she was a cyborg for not not showing emotion. Finally she shows a glimmer and now she's a manipulative bitch. She can't win, no matter what she does or doesn't do with some of you. Her biggest crime is being a successful and powerful woman, so far as I can see. I don't think she's a saint, but I don't see her as the second coming of Satan. What I do see is a lot of people saying things that are just not true...like she cried to manipulate her way into something. And she didn't even cry. I would like to see some objectivity injected into the conversation about her. Of course, I would like to see a lot of things I'll never see.
Are you justified in hating others based on beliefs? Ever? What do you actually know? Not much. If any of what you say were true, wouldn't Obama be on it? He's got better sources than you do, I am inclined to think, since he is, after all running for president, and you are not. If I believe you are Satan, am I justified in hating you? Based on a belief? The belief might not be the most rational thing I could subscribe to, might it not?
51% percent of the population may be female, but at least half hates Hillary, whereas at least African Americans are not debating whether Obama is African American enough for whatever reason. I've heard that Clinton is not feminist enough because she didn't divorce Bill and therefore worth disliking. I've heard that she's too much the feminist, and therefore not worth supporting (and disliking). These women think that Hillary's not woman enough to be president for one reason or another.
But, point made...I do think a lot of people don't like Hillary because they actually don't like Bill. It'd be nice to have them come out and just say that. That would make sense and be at least somewhat fair. You don't want to see him in the WH. I could get that. But the projected stuff....that bugs to no end.
Personally, I never disliked Bill. I thought Monica-gate was too bad, but his own business. He was a pretty good president.
The stories about both Obama and Clinton both posturing about NAFTA are probably both true. NAFTA is actually not the evil that most people think. Yes, we've lost jobs due to NAFTA, but more jobs have been created than lost under NAFTA. Both the candidates will play this card to win your vote; and NAFTA just isn't the walking plague it's portrayed to be. She hasn't given anyone the race card. She said nothing, except that she disagreed with with the statements made and she let the person saying them go.
Of Obama was a white fella, he might well still be ahead of Clinton. What does your state senate look like? What does our Congress look like? If you elected women proportionately to the population, about 51% of Senators should be women. 51% of Representatives. Are they? No where near. Obama's rise is encouraging in terms of where we are as a nation in terms of race. However, I'm not too happy with where we are as a nation in terms of opportunities afforded to women and playing fields they are placed on, which are very slanted.
Jackson wasn't historically in the right place at the right time, plus you can argue that he ran as a Black candidate, essentially, for other Blacks. Obama is not making the mistake of running only for a subset of people. And he is in the right place at the right time to be able to do so.
Counter edit....? is this about keeping score.....
What REAL response were you looking for?
You agree with Ferraro and I don't agree with either of you.
What is the point of carrying on a debate in some online forum like this..... uhh no point that is why I left it alone.
However you want a REAL answer..... this is what I believe.
You say that Obama is only where he is because he is black....
I say what if Obama was not running and it was just Clinton and Edwards, I think that Edwards would have been in the same exact position more less that Obama is in.... he is white, but a similar message..... therefore it has nothing to do with "skin tone" as you suggest.
Don't get distracted by his skin color THAT IS WHAT CLINTON WANTS YOU TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!
How are Barack's different from Hillary's? It doesn't do it for me since I've been to both of their websites and find that for all practical intents and purposes, they hold the very same positions, particularly on abortion and gay rights. Obama has flopped around on his position the war...at one point even saying that his position was similar to Bush's. Now he's back to saying it's lightyears from it. That's a politician for you. They all flop around to tell you whatever it is you want to hear. Clinton, included.
The fact that Monica blew Bill in the Oval office, though heinous, i was almost willing to write off, as you have, as his own personal business and no real concern of mine. It's the lying, perjuring, evidence tampering business i have a problem with.
Furthermore, there is a problem with comparative perception. Sandwhiched between the bushes, Bill looks pretty good, but, so would you or i. Slick Willy's administration is grossly overrated. He was mediocre at best and the continuous scandals make it, IMO, less than so.
Most of those ideas are identical to Clintons. None of it may have to do with the fact he's Black. Your preferences are yours...but, I don't see where they come from. I do not prefer his health care plan. It will cost way more than Clinton's in the long run. Her plan is honest up front...you need to sign up, period. Somewhere. Just like with car insurance. You need this. Your state needs it. Your country needs it. If people can choose whether to sign up or not, many won't. I read a statistic that says that no voluntary plan will encompass more than 70% participation. That means 30% of everybody won't be covered. When they show up at the ER and their condition costs thousands to diagnose and treat...who's paying for that? It'll be you. At a much higher rate than if you build it in. Cheaper sounding is sometime just cheap...in the sense of being no bargain.