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Attn: you cant say Obama is popular because he is black

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSunLikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
edited March 2008 in A Moving Train
if you do you are a racist. Apparently.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Not racist. Just ignorant.
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSunLikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    binger wrote:
    Not racist. Just ignorant.

    i agree basically. i think the opinion is wrong but its a logical opinion. People are acting like she just used a racial slur or something.

    if anything its anti-people-who-aren't-racist. or something. I Havent figured it out yet.
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    I'll be honest.
    As much as i'd like to think it really wasn't true,
    I'm pretty sure that if Obama was white, he would just be viewed as another politician that made a lot more promises than he ever could or would keep. Beyond that, he would get a bunch of crap for being inexperienced. AND, there is no way in hell he would ever have come close to beating Clinton or Edwards.

    Obviously we will never know, sense he is clearly not white,
    but it's just something i find interesting to speculate on.

    And don't misread this, i'm not saying people are only voting for him because he is black, or that they even know when they are voting that him being black is affecting their decision.

    But this whole "change" thing, and his "not a washington insider" thing ... imho, it only goes over because of the guys skin color.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    It's not even a logical opinion. He's pulling people from all over the spectrum. I'm a 38 year old white guy. I voted for him cause he sounds like a leader, somebody we haven't had in a long time, not because he's black.
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    binger wrote:
    It's not even a logical opinion. He's pulling people from all over the spectrum. I'm a 38 year old white guy. I voted for him cause he sounds like a leader, somebody we haven't had in a long time, not because he's black.

    Right.
    My presumption was that a lot of this takes place in the subconscious.
    And i'm sure lots of women are voting for hillary who have no idea that subconsciously their vote is in respects being determined by the fact that she is a woman. This is a gut, "which of these things is not (does not LOOK) like the other" reaction, which occurs somewhere behind the frontal lobe.

    I'm not saying that there aren't people who are really voting for the guy based on having read all of his policy ideas and agreeing with them, but those people (in general, not just for obama, in general in america, making a decision for president based on policies is pretty rare) are few and far between.

    So you are left with people who are either directly voting for him because he is black (still probably not the majority of his voters), and then a whole bunch who are semi-informed to fairly-uninformed but well meaning, who are voting for a guy who they think is liberal, and who talks a good talk ... but who otherwise would probably sound just like the other guys on the stage ... except for the fact that he is a tall, handsome, polished, young looking, black man.

    So maybe its more just his image and shtick, combined with the black.
    But i truly believe that image and shtick would be viewed transparent through to the same-old high-talking low-walkin politician of your average garden variety, if'n the guy wasn't black.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • DixieNDixieN Posts: 351
    I disagree that Ferraro made a racist statement. Everything she said makes reasonable sense to me, from saying that she would not have been on the ticket as VP if it weren't for her gender to saying that were it not for his race things would be different. She was very right in saying that if he were a woman of any color, he wouldn't be where he is. If Obama were the same candidate, but the opposite gender, he'd be Shirley Chisholm--a fine candidate who went nowhere. It's not that Obama doesn't garner support from across the spectrum--he does and there's no doubt about it. But, in the political in fighting--even here on this board--people are free to say things about Clinton's gender that would never be tolerated equally if those things being said were about her race were she black. Many people seem to think nothing of insulting Clinton in the most vile ways--saying she's a drag queen, calling her names like Kunton--and "no one says" anything but, "Yeah, I hate her, too!" To go the same way with Obama would be to sink into outright hate speech, so people don't. But, people feel free to engage in very hateful speech toward women and hardly anyone even does anything but laugh and laugh harder. I have heard very few voices on any board say anything but, "LOL!" on the nastiness directed at Clinton. I think Obama is enjoying (maybe not personally, but his campaign is) that advantage--anything, no matter how low, can be said about Clinton, but no one can say anything equivalent about him. He's got protection from assaults that Clinton just doesn't based on his race. So the things propagated about her are nasty and nastier, and the things propagated about him are pretty benign.

    More to post. Out of time. I will support either candidate happily.
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    It was an idiotic comment to make in this political culture that we are in. And coming from someone who fought the "token" female label makes me scratch my head more.

    Another reason it is an stupid comment to make, is that you can't prove it (or disprove it). I'm sure there are people who vote for him because he is black, but there are people who don't vote for him because he is black. Same with Clinton as a woman.
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  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    White or black, I'm not voting for the guy based on his message. But this is a tricky subject to talk about, because any observation made about race will be called racist by the politically correct who disagree with your opinion. Of course much of his publicity and notoriety come from his being black. I agree with Driftin. He'd be just another mid-western jr. Senator with big ideas. Even Biden was smitten with him based on his race, and ended up sticking his foot in his mouth:

    "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

    Not the brightest thing to say, but the storybook point turned out to be true. Even though Biden comes across as pandering, the media has taken a storybook approach to Obama that it may not have taken were he white. We'll never know. But based on this http://www.cmpa.com/election%20news%203_3_08.htm it looks like he's had 83% positive coverage in the media versus 53% for Clinton. Maybe it is because of his message (or the feelings his non-message engenders as it were). But maybe it is because of what Biden was unable to accurately articulate.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • MasterFramerMasterFramer Posts: 2,268
    Then you are a fucking idiot. I dont give a fuck, report me ban me whatever. If you think what Ferraro said is ok you have your head so far shoved up your ass you have no business breathing.

    Great fucking way to unite the party you stupid bitch Hillary. Way to go. You will stop at nothing to win an election. Fuck you. Fuck Bill. And fuck anyone else who stands by this other bitches statement.
    DixieN wrote:
    I disagree that Ferraro made a racist statement. Everything she said makes reasonable sense to me, from saying that she would not have been on the ticket as VP if it weren't for her gender to saying that were it not for his race things would be different. She was very right in saying that if he were a woman of any color, he wouldn't be where he is. If Obama were the same candidate, but the opposite gender, he'd be Shirley Chisholm--a fine candidate who went nowhere. It's not that Obama doesn't garner support from across the spectrum--he does and there's no doubt about it. But, in the political in fighting--even here on this board--people are free to say things about Clinton's gender that would never be tolerated equally if those things being said were about her race were she black. Many people seem to think nothing of insulting Clinton in the most vile ways--saying she's a drag queen, calling her names like Kunton--and "no one says" anything but, "Yeah, I hate her, too!" To go the same way with Obama would be to sink into outright hate speech, so people don't. But, people feel free to engage in very hateful speech toward women and hardly anyone even does anything but laugh and laugh harder. I have heard very few voices on any board say anything but, "LOL!" on the nastiness directed at Clinton. I think Obama is enjoying (maybe not personally, but his campaign is) that advantage--anything, no matter how low, can be said about Clinton, but no one can say anything equivalent about him. He's got protection from assaults that Clinton just doesn't based on his race. So the things propagated about her are nasty and nastier, and the things propagated about him are pretty benign.

    More to post. Out of time. I will support either candidate happily.
    10.31.93 / 10.1.94 / 6.24.95 / 11.4.95 / 10.19-20.96 / 7.16.98 / 7.21.98 / 10.31.00 /8.4.01 Nader Rally/ 10.21.01 / 12.8-9.02 / 6.01.03 / 9.1.05 / 7.15-16,18.06 / 7.20.06 / 7.22-23.06 / Lolla 07
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSunLikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    edit: nevermind
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSunLikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    Are people on this board being racist when they say (often) that to be president you have to be part of the WMA? Is it racist to say that George Bush wouldnt be president if he wasnt white?

    I agree that the statement was wrong (factually not morally) but not racist.

    arent you the guy that thinks people who are against illegal immigration are all racists? thats as much as a moronic statement as what she said.


    on a side note: what is Clinton up to? is she trying for the hidden racist vote? is she playing the "press hates me" card again? is Ferrarp sabotaging her? I'm getting all crazy with conspiracy theories!
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    DixieN wrote:
    I disagree that Ferraro made a racist statement. Everything she said makes reasonable sense to me, from saying that she would not have been on the ticket as VP if it weren't for her gender to saying that were it not for his race things would be different. She was very right in saying that if he were a woman of any color, he wouldn't be where he is. If Obama were the same candidate, but the opposite gender, he'd be Shirley Chisholm--a fine candidate who went nowhere. It's not that Obama doesn't garner support from across the spectrum--he does and there's no doubt about it. But, in the political in fighting--even here on this board--people are free to say things about Clinton's gender that would never be tolerated equally if those things being said were about her race were she black. Many people seem to think nothing of insulting Clinton in the most vile ways--saying she's a drag queen, calling her names like Kunton--and "no one says" anything but, "Yeah, I hate her, too!" To go the same way with Obama would be to sink into outright hate speech, so people don't. But, people feel free to engage in very hateful speech toward women and hardly anyone even does anything but laugh and laugh harder. I have heard very few voices on any board say anything but, "LOL!" on the nastiness directed at Clinton. I think Obama is enjoying (maybe not personally, but his campaign is) that advantage--anything, no matter how low, can be said about Clinton, but no one can say anything equivalent about him. He's got protection from assaults that Clinton just doesn't based on his race. So the things propagated about her are nasty and nastier, and the things propagated about him are pretty benign.

    More to post. Out of time. I will support either candidate happily.

    Some good points there. Putting the word 'cunt' in Hillary's name is so degrading. As if there's not plenty to rationally be critical of when it comes to her...people seem to feel the need to bring up her vagina and use it in such a vile way. Disgusting. If someone put the word 'nigger' in Obama's name, all hell would break loose. (and it would be equally disgusting as cunton) Grow up people and control the anger a bit. Some of you treat this election like it's a sporting event. I think it would serve you well to lay off the news programs a wee bit.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 7,761
    I am going to file this under the "bonehead" column. I think the Clinton camp is daring Obama to press this as a race issue. I think they think it will help her in PA to make it sound like Obama is playing the race card.

    Here's how I think the Obama camp should respond, "if the Clinton camp wants to focus on things that got a candidate where we are today. Had she not been married to the President, Hillary Clinton would not be in the position she is right now."
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  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    ledvedderman wrote:
    "if the Clinton camp wants to focus on things that got a candidate where we are today. Had she not been married to the President, Hillary Clinton would not be in the position she is right now."

    Why would they say this?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 7,761
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Why would they say this?

    Because a surrogate of the Clinton campaign is saying the only reason Barack Obama is where he is, is because he is black. Why not raise the point that Senator Clinton is where she is because she was married to he President. If an Obama surrogate had said either this, or that Hillary is only still in this race because she is a woman, the Clinton campaign would be in nuclear mode.

    The words I chose in my previous post are a little unclear now that I read it again.
    E8toX.gif

    http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    ledvedderman wrote:
    Because a surrogate of the Clinton campaign is saying the only reason Barack Obama is where he is, is because he is black. Why not raise the point that Senator Clinton is where she is because she was married to he President. If an Obama surrogate had said either this, or that Hillary is only still in this race because she is a woman, the Clinton campaign would be in nuclear mode.

    The words I chose in my previous post are a little unclear now that I read it again.


    No, I gotcha. I just think it's a pretty shitty philosophy to make choices and take paths based on other's....especially when you think the other person is in the wrong.

    Ever heard of the high road? Do things because it's the right thing to do cuz if you don't then you're no better.

    I know we all do it sometimes but it's just food for thought. :)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Some good points there. Putting the word 'cunt' in Hillary's name is so degrading. As if there's not plenty to rationally be critical of when it comes to her...people seem to feel the need to bring up her vagina and use it in such a vile way. Disgusting. If someone put the word 'nigger' in Obama's name, all hell would break loose. (and it would be equally disgusting as cunton) Grow up people and control the anger a bit. Some of you treat this election like it's a sporting event. I think it would serve you well to lay off the news programs a wee bit.
    cunton, cunton, cunton.
    There.
    It has nothing to do with the fact that she HAS one. It has everything to do with the fact that she IS one.
    "But, cornnifer just has a problem with strong women... blah, blah, blah.."
    Please. i have no problem with strong women, My wife is a strong woman. i love strong women.
    Just not clinton.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Hillary has a penis, and it's larger than Obama's
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 7,761
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    No, I gotcha. I just think it's a pretty shitty philosophy to make choices and take paths based on other's....especially when you think the other person is in the wrong.

    Ever heard of the high road? Do things because it's the right thing to do cuz if you don't then you're no better.

    I know we all do it sometimes but it's just food for thought. :)

    I agree with you. I think they should leave out the specifics, and simply state something along the lines of "if the Clinton camp wants to have a debate about the reason either of us are in the position we are in, we would be glad to have that debate".

    I think that gets the point across and it isn't a very negative reply.

    (I'm sorry if my logic isn't coming across too well. I'm posting these from my phone and my brain is moving faster than my fingers)
    E8toX.gif

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  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    cornnifer wrote:
    cunton, cunton, cunton.
    There.
    It has nothing to do with the fact that she HAS one. It has everything to do with the fact that she IS one.
    "But, cornnifer just has a problem with strong women... blah, blah, blah.."
    Please. i have no problem with strong women, My wife is a strong woman. i love strong women.
    Just not clinton.

    Kiss your mom with that mouth?

    I haven't noticed you calling other people this name before. I'm sure she isn't the only person who fits the definition by your standards.

    What exactly is the definition of cunt as you are using it here?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • JD SalJD Sal Posts: 790
    I agree with Bill Maher on the Clinton haters. She certainly isn't the best motivator, and you may dislike her personality or disagree with her on the issues, but she's not a hatable person. If you hate Hillary, it's more about you than it is about her.

    About Ferraro's comments, I think she may be right to an extent. How much of the black vote does Obama get? In that respect he may not be where he is without that overwhelming support.
    "If no one sees you, you're not here at all"
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    JD Sal wrote:
    I agree with Bill Maher on the Clinton haters. She certainly isn't the best motivator, and you may dislike her personality or disagree with her on the issues, but she's not a hatable person. If you hate Hillary, it's more about you than it is about her.
    .

    What if you geniuninely believe her to have been involved in felony international drug trafficking with the CIA, and also a conspirator to murder? Oh, and you think she is an unchecked global government elitist (and acording to Larry Nichols, atleast, a former card carrying communist) who has aims of selling the United States out to the "global union" just like Gordon Brown did last week selling Britain to the EU ... all without the vote of the people?

    Is it stil me, or if the allegations are accurate, is the hate justified?

    Google "clinton mena" and "vince foster murder", for starters.
    :D
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • rage against tmrage against tm Posts: 106
    looking at this from a native/white female pt of view, i voted for Obama because he seems to be about his buisness-changing politics in dc, understanding what it means to work to better yourself, understands adversity, seems honest and seems to have a more mature-controled persona + he says he will talk with contentious nations (how else are we going to get along?) bombs sure aren't helping.from a racial stand point all i can say is W>M>M> has ruled here for over 200 yrs and where are we? people of colors may have more compassion for poverty, suffering, injustice, a better hope for fairness? we have walked the walk.I wasn't crazy about hil from the start sensorship issues? then she started bitchin, crying(that's an embarressment to any woman trying to do a professional job + manipulative) then there was that crack about cleaning closets? who is she kidding? she's had house help almost forever.. a lawyer-governor's wife-first lady. lets not kid ourselves she isn't comon folk. then it got to be hil the menapausal maniac Who will answer the phone at 3 am? jeckle or hide? and don't say i'm sexist cause i'm a fem, she clearly needs a patch or something cause she isn't in control of her emotions or she is the most cuniving bitch i've ever seen. and poor ralph i just couldn't chance another 4 rep. years.
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  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    JD Sal wrote:

    About Ferraro's comments, I think she may be right to an extent. How much of the black vote does Obama get? In that respect he may not be where he is without that overwhelming support.

    Its straight nonsense. i hate to have to keep pointing out to people that Obama has been winning, by large margins, in states that are 95, 96% white! Its ridiculous. Ferraro's comments, if not racist, are seriously racially insensitive. i think whats harder to swallow than ferraro's comments, are the comments of clinton campaign leader Maggie Williams. She basically defended Ferraro by saying her comments were fair and accurate. Maggie Williams is a Black woman. If someone were to say that Maggie Williams got to be the head of the clinton campaign because SHE is black. She would be offended and expect an appology. It would be a fair reaction. Williams should be the first person to drop ferraro like a hot rock.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • stratomasterstratomaster Posts: 23
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Ever heard of the high road? Do things because it's the right thing to do cuz if you don't then you're no better.

    I know we all do it sometimes but it's just food for thought. :)
    Obama has done that very well.
    Politics is such a dirty game. It really brings out a person’s true identity. It takes a very strong person to play fair and it looks like Hillary has failed. It seems like she will go to any extent to win, even if it means breaking the Democratic Party wide open.
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:



    What exactly is the definition of cunt as you are using it here?

    http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/hotair.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/hillary-clinton.jpg
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • KatKat Posts: 4,908
    Racist and sexist posts not ok. Do not do it. Please use the Report to Mod feature if we miss any. Thank you.

    It's ok to elevate the discussion and debate.

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  • rage against tmrage against tm Posts: 106
    It seems like she will go to any extent to win, even if it means breaking the Democratic Party wide open.[/quote]
    exactly she would tear this party apart if she could a woman scorned...and it seems that bill will do what ever he can to help her cause if she dosen't she'll be bitchin at him for the next 4 instead? could you imagine?
    03 bristow,04 reading,05 toronto,05 phillie,06 camden,06 dc,07 chicago,08 dc,08 camden,09 philliex2,10 bristow
    eddie solo 08 dc,09 balt, 11 phillie
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    another calculated move by the clinton camp that will backfire big time...
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    first it was America was not ready for a black president...

    now that he is winning they say it is because he is black...


    fucking hilarious :D




    not to mention 51% of the population is female, and an even larger % of voters are female... so if we are talking demographics based on gender/race Hillary has a clear advantage...



    Bill Clinton will do anything to win his 3rd term...
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