People do choose. I choose to like females. If I wanted to I could choose to like males, but my choose not to. Everything you do in life is a choice. I choose to like blue over red. The crazy guy chooses to pull the trigger and kill somebody. The only people who dont really have a choice are childern and retards, so are you saying gay people are like retards???? Everybody has a choice. Some people just make bad ones. Within 100 years what I call normal will nolonger exist. I guess what you call normal will.........Sad.....very sad
I choose to like females. If I wanted to I could choose to like males, but my choose not to.
Oh, please. That makes no sense. You can choose to DO something but you can't choose to FEEL something. You feel the way your brain tells you to feel. Sexuality is based on personal feelings. You don't make a "choice" to like lima beans. You either like the taste or you don't. So by your theory, the correct "choice" would be to eat the lima beans anyway, because that's what everybody else does, and to not do that would be "abnormal".
Within 100 years what I call normal will nolonger exist. I guess what you call normal will.........Sad.....very sad
however...what about infertile heterosexual couples? they can't conceive on their own, and yet society fully supports their rights to undergo all forms of assisted reproduction and/or adoption.
Can we PLEASE stop comparing infertile couples to gay couples. It's really not the same thing. Thank you.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
People do choose. I choose to like females. If I wanted to I could choose to like males, but my choose not to. Everything you do in life is a choice. I choose to like blue over red. The crazy guy chooses to pull the trigger and kill somebody. The only people who dont really have a choice are childern and retards, so are you saying gay people are like retards???? Everybody has a choice. Some people just make bad ones. Within 100 years what I call normal will nolonger exist. I guess what you call normal will.........Sad.....very sad
And I don't care how heated this debated gets, but I'd LOVE to see less of the word 'retard' dotted about. Thanks again.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Oh, please. That makes no sense. You can choose to DO something but you can't choose to FEEL something. You feel the way your brain tells you to feel. Sexuality is based on personal feelings. You don't make a "choice" to like lima beans. You either like the taste or you don't. So by your theory, the correct "choice" would be to eat the lima beans anyway, because that's what everybody else does, and to not do that would be "abnormal".
Hahaha. Hysterical.
Taste is an interesting thing, people who grow up on certain foods tend to like those foods a lot and not really like other things. The brain is a complex organism, there is much room for change. It is essentially whatever we make it. A thought, becomes an idea, becomes an action, becomes a habit and finally becomes a character. Homosexuality is as much a fascination as it is chemical. Our thoughts control the chemicals in our brains to a great degree. We now know that thought/chemical is a two-way connection. Depression is something a person causes to themselves, so is anger and jealousy. All emotions are self-induced. You have the choice to like or dislike whatever you want, if it's taste, politics, even sexuality. Try eating a food you don't like, tell yourself you like it, for a while it will seem gross, eventually you will crave it. Sex is the same thing. That's why people like eating human feces and being pissed on. They like having sex with animals and being tortured. All fascinations turned chemical, like an addiction. Emotion/Desire equals Addiction.
I'm sure just about everyone at some point in their life has experienced a gay moment. I'll admit to it, I felt oddly attracted to a man once. I abolished the thought as most people would. Only recently has it become acceptable, and people put a lot more thought into those gay moments. So homosexuality has proliferated. I choose to be heterosexual, for several reasons. I like vaginal sex. The anus' skin is 1/3 the thickness of the vagina, it tears easily and foreign protenes and bacteria can enter the body that way. Women are a nice counter-balance to men by nature, they can produce children. And, as long as women like men and men like women nobody is left out. In my city the ration is 4:1 girls to boys and probably 1/4 of the boys are gay. So that means a lot of lonely girls, or a lot of lesbians. Anyway, it is a choice, I bet it's easier to quit homosexuality than it is to quit smoking.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
We now know that thought/chemical is a two-way connection. Depression is something a person causes to themselves, so is anger and jealousy. All emotions are self-induced. You have the choice to like or dislike whatever you want, if it's taste, politics, even sexuality.
""Depression is something a person causes to themselves" You're not Tom Cruise, are you?
I'm sure just about everyone at some point in their life has experienced a gay moment. I'll admit to it, I felt oddly attracted to a man once. I abolished the thought as most people would. Only recently has it become acceptable, and people put a lot more thought into those gay moments. So homosexuality has proliferated. I choose to be heterosexual, for several reasons.
So you are telling me that I was fascinated by homosexuality and that that was normal, but somehow I let it get to me too much? And that when I fell head over heels in love with my g/f, I should've thought to myself "oh, wait a minute, it's not falling in love, it's a gay moment, I should stop it NOW"? And you compare this to training yourself to eat foods you don't like or know?
So in that case, you are saying that heterosexuality is like only eating the food that a certain society has always eaten and refusing to vary the diet. You are saying that heterosexuality is also trained behaviour.
I don't agree with your theory
Like a cloud dropping rain
I'm discarding all thought
I'll dry up, leaving puddles on the ground
I'm like an opening band for the sun
Sex is the same thing. That's why people like eating human feces and being pissed on. They like having sex with animals and being tortured. All fascinations turned chemical, like an addiction. Emotion/Desire equals Addiction.
Well, sex and love aren't the same thing.
Anyway, it is a choice, I bet it's easier to quit homosexuality than it is to quit smoking.
I don't think it's a choice, I think you can try to deny your emotions. Or choose to deny your feelings, but I think you'd still be gay.
""Depression is something a person causes to themselves" You're not Tom Cruise, are you?
So you are telling me that I was fascinated by homosexuality and that that was normal, but somehow I let it get to me too much? And that when I fell head over heels in love with my g/f, I should've thought to myself "oh, wait a minute, it's not falling in love, it's a gay moment, I should stop it NOW"? And you compare this to training yourself to eat foods you don't like or know?
So in that case, you are saying that heterosexuality is like only eating the food that a certain society has always eaten and refusing to vary the diet. You are saying that heterosexuality is also trained behaviour.
I don't agree with your theory
It's mostly all trained behaviour. That's why society has changed so much. Why people are so much different. Sodomy has been around forever, but it's only become recently acceptable. Heterosexuality is absolutely a trained behaviour. Love is absolutely an addiction. A fascination with a person for some reason. Perhaps they are symetrically appealing to the eyes, or perhaps they have a particular quality of your mother, or a quality you share, or lack. There are many things that can cause a person to stand out, only one thing makes you fall in love, fascination, obsession. These thoughts feed neuroreceptors in the brain, and when they are fed, they multiply. The branches in the neural net strenghten their bonds with those emotions and eventually becomes part of the character. People have epiphanies and though they don't immediately change, it empowers their will to override their neural programming.
All objectivity of homosexuality is outlawed. We can not say within our social borders what really causes homosexuality. Labratory mice will become homosexual when they are over-crowded. Perhaps that is the cause. Some people said it's plastic that causes homosexuality. However, even in biblical times homosexuality was practiced. There is only one constant, the human body, the brain. We could argue that a homornal imbalance causes homosexuality, and people could seek hormone treatment, however that relies on their choice. That choice must be made before any treatment can be perscribed.
You can do whatever you want. I'm just saying, emotion is a decision. It's a choice people make, regardless of the stimuli. I choose to smoke, even though it has me in a mental death grip, I choose to change, and it can be done. I chose to start smoking, and I have to choose to quit. I chose to fall in love with my girlfriend, and I chose to quit. If you can say that homosexuality isn't a choice, then you must say that crime isn't a choice, and bigotry isn't a choice, perhaps we don't make any decisions, our brains do all the choosing. I agree with that too, we must feed our brains information to allow it to make the right choices, for our health, safety and well-being.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Love is absolutely an addiction. A fascination with a person for some reason. Perhaps they are symetrically appealing to the eyes, or perhaps they have a particular quality of your mother, or a quality you share, or lack. There are many things that can cause a person to stand out, only one thing makes you fall in love, fascination, obsession.
You don't choose to be fascinated or obsessed.
]These thoughts feed neuroreceptors in the brain,
Which thoughts would that be exactly?
and when they are fed, they multiply. The branches in the neural net strenghten their bonds with those emotions and eventually becomes part of the character.
Are you saying you have control over that? Teach me how, cause I don't, I can only ignore feelings, deny them etc. I don't control them.
I choose to smoke, even though it has me in a mental death grip, I choose to change, and it can be done. I chose to start smoking, and I have to choose to quit.
These are all actions not feelings.
I chose to fall in love with my girlfriend, and I chose to quit.
Really? You saw a girl and said ' she's ok, I am now going to fall in love with her?
If you can say that homosexuality isn't a choice, then you must say that crime isn't a choice, and bigotry isn't a choice, perhaps we don't make any decisions, our brains do all the choosing.
You make a choice wether to act on your feelings or not. I'm saying you don't make the choice to feel those things.
Are you saying you have control over that? Teach me how, cause I don't, I can only ignore feelings, deny them etc. I don't control them.
These are all actions not feelings.
You make a choice wether to act on your feelings or not. I'm saying you don't make the choice to feel those things.
I make the choice. You have to first realize that emotion is a choice. If you think of it as a controlling factor then you cannot overpower it.
For example, I do not love my ex-girlfriend, but from time to time I think about her and even dream about her. I go through a withdrawl stage once every month or so. Well, I haven't for a while now, I think I finally kicked the habit. The point is, I loved her, I could have kicked and screamed and tried to chase her down. But once I realized the level of control I have over what I find emotional, I haven't cared to be with anyone since. When I find someone that is truely special to me, I will allow emotions to develope, to be loyal to that woman. But until then, I'm just hurting myself by getting involved. There may be some genetics involved as their is in most thought, however, the controlling factor is choice.
Choice is a much broader topic than the fact that we have it in everything we do. We have it and we don't have it. We only have choice when we see reason to use it. Too much information on one perspective, essentially makes us "choose" that perspective, although it's not necissarily a "choice" if we don't know any different. I won't go any further into that though.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I make the choice. You have to first realize that emotion is a choice.
I completely disagree.
For example, I do not love my ex-girlfriend, but from time to time I think about her and even dream about her. I go through a withdrawl stage once every month or so. Well, I haven't for a while now, I think I finally kicked the habit. The point is, I loved her, I could have kicked and screamed and tried to chase her down.
Great example, let me get this straight, you chose to break up with your girlfriend, yet you also chose to think about her, to go through withdrawl? It would be much more logic if you broke up with her and chose not to think that way or go through withdrawl. I think you've just gone through what they call mourning.
When I find someone that is truely special to me, I will allow emotions to develope, to be loyal to that woman. But until then, I'm just hurting myself by getting involved.
How can you be hurt when you choose your own feelings?
Great example, let me get this straight, you chose to break up with your girlfriend, yet you also chose to think about her, to go through withdrawl? It would be much more logic if you broke up with her and chose not to think that way or go through withdrawl. I think you've just gone through what they call mourning.
How can you be hurt when you choose your own feelings?
It's not an imediate process, as I said it's a two-way street. To a certain degree, the chemicals control withdrawl and desire, the thoughts control the chemicals.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I haven't read the first two (will do that when I have a little more time), I've skimmed through the last one... and don't know why you posted it.
What Makes us Fall in Love?
We all have a template for the ideal partner buried somewhere in our subconscious. It is this love map that decides which person in that crowded room catches our eye.
That would mean you don't chose for it, at least not consciously, but that would be an oxymoron.
I'm going to be very clear here: Emotion is not a choice. Emotion is the one direct form of response we have to our environment. Emotion provides us direct feedback informing us how we are being affected by our surroundings and those within it. If we ignore this aspect of ourselves, we are ignoring our own selves.
We do have a choice on what we do with our emotional feedback.
For example, some people advocate repressing their emotion. In essence this is denying what they feel. This works for some people on the surface--many as a matter of fact. However there is a cost for doing so. If we tune out our direct feedback as to how our environment affects us, we are tuning out our emotional intelligence--a form of intelligence that humans evolved for distinct reasons. The level of emotional intelligence is a factor in how satisfied and content or successful one is in their life. I'm not sure about anyone else, but to tune out this intelligence would be a cost that is wayyyyyy too high for me, personally.
Other costs for denying emotion are rampant around us in western society--afterall, we're big on tuning out emotion and exalting logic. The costs include addictions, emotional disorders, and dysfunctions of all kinds. As a matter of fact, this is precisely why 95% of society is considered dysfunctional. We've been taught to devalue our own emotional intelligence.
When we are emotionally intelligent, we feel our emotions, use the information they provide us and move on. The emotion then clears out as it's been acknowledged. When people deny their emotions, they go under the surface where they cloud our reasoning, our judgment and they fragment our thinking with blockage. They reside in our unconscious where they wreak havoc in our unconscious and our bodies. All because we did not have the skill in coping with them.
Ahnimus makes a good point, that we can use logic to overrule our emotions. This is of great evolutionary benefit. We can and should objectively think about our emotions and come to better ways to serve ourselves in our own lives. We use this feedback to find problems in our lives and to further problem solve. Sometimes this includes altering our distorted thinking, which helps us become more emotionally intelligent. At the same time, this wonderful interactive system between reason and emotion was not designed so that we may deny aspects of who we are--like our feedback system of emotion. We may postpone feeling strong emotion during a meeting with our boss, so that we may reflect on our responses when we are alone so as to come to the more balanced solution to take back to the situation--one that serves us rather than undermines us. When we ACCEPT who we are and our thoughts and feelings, it is then that we are empowered to make changes that are in OUR best interests rather than to make others more comfortable. In the end, the discomfort of others in dealing with our choices is about them, and not our responsibility.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
People do choose. I choose to like females. If I wanted to I could choose to like males, but my choose not to. Everything you do in life is a choice. I choose to like blue over red. The crazy guy chooses to pull the trigger and kill somebody. The only people who dont really have a choice are childern and retards, so are you saying gay people are like retards???? Everybody has a choice. Some people just make bad ones. Within 100 years what I call normal will nolonger exist. I guess what you call normal will.........Sad.....very sad
oh my god. holy persecution complex. what you call normal will no longer exist? jesus that's funny. why am i not surprised you're from memphis? them faggots is spreadin like wildfire aint they? come on and let's be real here.
to an extent there is choice in acting upon homosexuality. but preference is not choice. you dont choose to like blue over red, if you did there would be some sort of logical and deductive thought process to it. but sometimes, certain things are just more appealing. i dont know why i prefer chocolate to vanilla, it just tastes better. some people prefer the opposite. gay people can choose not to act upon it, but people do not choose who they are attracted to. i dont know why ive got a thing for redheads, but i do. i never chose it, i couldnt tell you why it is, but it is.
So you are telling me that I was fascinated by homosexuality and that that was normal, but somehow I let it get to me too much? And that when I fell head over heels in love with my g/f, I should've thought to myself "oh, wait a minute, it's not falling in love, it's a gay moment, I should stop it NOW"? And you compare this to training yourself to eat foods you don't like or know?
So in that case, you are saying that heterosexuality is like only eating the food that a certain society has always eaten and refusing to vary the diet. You are saying that heterosexuality is also trained behaviour.
I don't agree with your theory
I'm glad to hear that you are comfortable being yourself and that you accept who you are, thoughts, feelings and intuitions.
It's pretty easy to spot when others are trying to get people to change to suit their own personal agendas, and due to their own discomfort. They identify themselves by not accepting who others are. They don't seem to recognise that it would be literally the mentally unstable thing to do for others to change to suit another person's view.
Thanks for sharing your perspective here.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
"...invalidation of their feelings turns people into mental invalids. The result of discounts is that people become split within themselves. A whole portion of their being, their feelings, is not acknowledged and perhaps eventually not even felt. The feelings continue to exist, however, they affect large parts of the person's bodily states and behaviour. Unexpressed anger, shame, fear, sadness build and eventually find expression anyway.
This is an excerpt from the book "Scripts People Live".
Most of us are quite unconscious of how our thoughts and emotions and general brain functions work. For many of us this stuff is beneath the surface of our awareness because we do not allow it into awareness. Many times, we think things that go wrong are because of those around us, because we are unaware of our own actions and their causes.
The way we become more aware of our brain functioning is by paying attention to our thoughts and emotions and what they say about us, NOT by ignoring what they say about us. Ignorance is the opposite of awareness. When we can look at an accept all parts of our thoughts, feelings, preferences, etc, then we can achieve more a sense of wholeness. At this point an overwhelming majority of us are split from our very selves according to base psychology and we have the dysfunctions and addictions to show for it.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Well, my current possibly ex-girlfriend has two moms. She doesn't think their gay cause she hasn't seen them being intimate or affectionate. Maybe they aren't I don't know. But they are definitely life partners and it's fucked her up pretty bad cause she is insecure anyway and being made fun of about having lesbian moms didn't help. Could be bad parenting too, i'll shut my mouth about this. This is just one issue that added fuel to her firestorm of issues, adopted, lesbian parents, in pagents and shit growing up, singing in that mickey mouse club and shit, ridiculously spoiled, etc. I think in this case it was just one more combustible ingredient. Under ideal circumstances obviously 1 father 1 mother may be the best way. But I would much rather a child have two loving caring gay parents than one selfish uncaring real parent or no parents or two that don't give a shit. Just my two cents.
"That's part of the curse: If you're gonna play the song, you better play it. I've tried to phone in "Jeremy" a few times, and it's tough. It doesn't work."
Can we PLEASE stop comparing infertile couples to gay couples. It's really not the same thing. Thank you.
no.
in your mind it is not the same, in mine it is. both are couples who desperately want children and cannot conceive on their own. just b/c one is a male/ female pairing and the other is male/male or female/female....makes no difference to me. beyond sexual orientation, it is exactly ther same issue, scenario and desire for a child for all couples involved, and i also think all said couples want very much to have a child that they can give a loving/supportive home environment. if all you can say is 'they're not the same thing'...not much there to discuss.
from a previous post on this same issue:
there is NO 'medical need' for a specific couple to undergo assisted reproduction; it is a WANT. thus, it's a want both heteros and homosexuals both may have...and imho...if it's deemed 'ok' by society to meet that need for one group, i do not see how it is right to deny another group that same right based on sexual orientation and nothing else. yes, my opinion. agree, disagree...whatever. but sure, if i ever have the chance to vote in a way to show support for such, you betcha i will. however, i do not have at it, nor get upset when someone shares their opinion...we're all free to think and say what we
no.
in your mind it is not the same, in mine it is. both are couples who desperately want children and cannot conceive on their own. just b/c one is a male/ female pairing and the other is male/male or female/female....makes no difference to me. beyond sexual orientation, it is exactly ther same issue, scenario and desire for a child for all couples involved, and i also think all said couples want very much to have a child that they can give a loving/supportive home environment. if all you can say is 'they're not the same thing'...not much there to discuss.
I'd love to discuss this with you. Incidentally, the reason I state they are not the same thing is nothing - I repeat, nothing - to do with their sexual orientation.
A few pages back (actually, page 5), I posted a long thought about this issue. Feel free to respond to it. As I said, I have no qualms with any sexual orientation at all. However, I'm all for adoption when it comes to homosexual couples.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
I'd love to discuss this with you. Incidentally, the reason I state they are not the same thing is nothing - I repeat, nothing - to do with their sexual orientation.
A few pages back (actually, page 5), I posted a long thought about this issue. Feel free to respond to it. As I said, I have no qualms with any sexual orientation at all. However, I'm all for adoption when it comes to homosexual couples.
I went back and read your post. Thanks for sharing that. You raise some very good points about the general lack of reverence in life. Including the lack of respect for life's processes and people's warped view of their "rights" and how it's distorted some of our basic ideas.
Good luck on your journey with possible adoption.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I went back and read your post. Thanks for sharing that. You raise some very good points about the general lack of reverence in life. Including the lack of respect for life's processes and people's warped view of their "rights" and how it's distorted some of our basic ideas.
Good luck on your journey with possible adoption.
complete agreement.
also, harmless, do please check your PMs.
that said, i do too fully agree with the whole 'business' of babies, etc...but that is as much a heterosexual making, not homosexual. that same 'business' would be there no matter what, b/c as a society we have agreed, whether one personally agrees or not, to allow for assisted reproduction.
however, i still see very much that while you say it has nothing to do with sexual orientation...and readily agree they should be allowed to adopt...i STILL fail to see why you draw this distinction, b/c i assume you still believe hetero couples deserve this right? so i am still unclear where exactly you are drawing this 'line' of who it's allowable for, and why?
for instance...for a female with a male partner with infertility problems, a VERY viable alternative is a sperm donor. as simple as choosing from donorations at the local sperm bank, getting said sperm implanted...and if the woman herself has zero fertility issues, she can get pregnant. now, this can be done with a hetero woman, or a homosexual one. IF you believe it's ok for a homosexual couple to raise children...then i still fail to see why you would grant this 'tright' to a hetero female and not a lesbian? beyond sexual orientation, where is the difference? tell me you disagree with assisted reproduction and it's a whole other story...and while my opinions may or may not differ...at least that is 'fair'..in a sense.
also - so many are getting hung up on the reproduction issues of it all. i have zero stats on this so if someone does, i'd be interested. however, first of all, i don't think there is THAT many homosexual couples looking to have children, whether thru assisted repro or adoption. of those who choose to have kids, i am guessing most go the adoption route, particularly gay men, b/c yea....they are at an inherent disadvantage in having to find a surrogate, etc. the #s for assisted repro for lesbians i would think is a bit higher, simply b/c of the scenario i listed above...it's far easier for a female to get assistance. not even getting into the whole idea of infertility in a homosexual couples..than sure, even more complicatyed...but still just as right for them to get assistance.
anyway, i guess i still just don't get it. i understand the lament for the preciousness of life and all....and it does sound like you had a bad expereince. however, if one supports the right to assisted reporduction, i simply think it is a right of all. i do not see what 'distinction' you are pointing to beyond sexual orientation. bottomline, i think the percentage of homosexuals who actually go for reproductive assistance is quite low, i would think a great many opt for adoption....and either way, for either choices..i think heterosexual couples far outnumber them. and btw - i have to fully DISagree with most couples wanting designer babies, looking to just rush in, whatever...the vast majority of people i have known who have undergone any form of assistance, are very much caring/loving people..who so just want a child of their own, like most couples who want children do. some may be successful, others may end up adoptings, others may simply choose to remain childless...but to say the vast majority of people - hetero or not - are going in without believing in the sanctity of life, is just unfair to assume at best.
Put 100 gay men on an island...leave them be for 100 years then come back with your observation on how nature supports it...you'll see precious little life existing. People support homosexuality not nature. end of argument.
Put 100 straight men on an island ... leave them be for 100 years then come back. You'll see precious little life existing.
Put 100 straight men on an island ... leave them be for 100 years then come back. You'll see precious little life existing.
What is your point again?
haha - exactly!
homosexulaity is no danger to the survival of humanity. as i have said many times..i personally believe it, and perhaps even infertility in some heterosexuals - is a built in 'check' of nature, to keep populations sustainable for the planet, and to offer a supportive role to other children/families...etc. one not need to reproduce to be valuable.
It's all psychological, people that say emotion is a deciding factor, just can't accept responsibility for themselves. Wake up and smell the coffee.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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I'm guessing he learned that bit of sloganeering at a fundie church. It sounds like a Pat Robertson / James Dobson cliché.
Did you choose your eye color? Did you choose your skin color? Did you choose your height? Did you choose your IQ? Do you smoke crack?
Oh, please. That makes no sense. You can choose to DO something but you can't choose to FEEL something. You feel the way your brain tells you to feel. Sexuality is based on personal feelings. You don't make a "choice" to like lima beans. You either like the taste or you don't. So by your theory, the correct "choice" would be to eat the lima beans anyway, because that's what everybody else does, and to not do that would be "abnormal".
Hahaha. Hysterical.
Can we PLEASE stop comparing infertile couples to gay couples. It's really not the same thing. Thank you.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
And I don't care how heated this debated gets, but I'd LOVE to see less of the word 'retard' dotted about. Thanks again.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Taste is an interesting thing, people who grow up on certain foods tend to like those foods a lot and not really like other things. The brain is a complex organism, there is much room for change. It is essentially whatever we make it. A thought, becomes an idea, becomes an action, becomes a habit and finally becomes a character. Homosexuality is as much a fascination as it is chemical. Our thoughts control the chemicals in our brains to a great degree. We now know that thought/chemical is a two-way connection. Depression is something a person causes to themselves, so is anger and jealousy. All emotions are self-induced. You have the choice to like or dislike whatever you want, if it's taste, politics, even sexuality. Try eating a food you don't like, tell yourself you like it, for a while it will seem gross, eventually you will crave it. Sex is the same thing. That's why people like eating human feces and being pissed on. They like having sex with animals and being tortured. All fascinations turned chemical, like an addiction. Emotion/Desire equals Addiction.
I'm sure just about everyone at some point in their life has experienced a gay moment. I'll admit to it, I felt oddly attracted to a man once. I abolished the thought as most people would. Only recently has it become acceptable, and people put a lot more thought into those gay moments. So homosexuality has proliferated. I choose to be heterosexual, for several reasons. I like vaginal sex. The anus' skin is 1/3 the thickness of the vagina, it tears easily and foreign protenes and bacteria can enter the body that way. Women are a nice counter-balance to men by nature, they can produce children. And, as long as women like men and men like women nobody is left out. In my city the ration is 4:1 girls to boys and probably 1/4 of the boys are gay. So that means a lot of lonely girls, or a lot of lesbians. Anyway, it is a choice, I bet it's easier to quit homosexuality than it is to quit smoking.
""Depression is something a person causes to themselves" You're not Tom Cruise, are you?
So you are telling me that I was fascinated by homosexuality and that that was normal, but somehow I let it get to me too much? And that when I fell head over heels in love with my g/f, I should've thought to myself "oh, wait a minute, it's not falling in love, it's a gay moment, I should stop it NOW"? And you compare this to training yourself to eat foods you don't like or know?
So in that case, you are saying that heterosexuality is like only eating the food that a certain society has always eaten and refusing to vary the diet. You are saying that heterosexuality is also trained behaviour.
I don't agree with your theory
I'm discarding all thought
I'll dry up, leaving puddles on the ground
I'm like an opening band for the sun
Well, sex and love aren't the same thing.
I don't think it's a choice, I think you can try to deny your emotions. Or choose to deny your feelings, but I think you'd still be gay.
naděje umírá poslední
It's mostly all trained behaviour. That's why society has changed so much. Why people are so much different. Sodomy has been around forever, but it's only become recently acceptable. Heterosexuality is absolutely a trained behaviour. Love is absolutely an addiction. A fascination with a person for some reason. Perhaps they are symetrically appealing to the eyes, or perhaps they have a particular quality of your mother, or a quality you share, or lack. There are many things that can cause a person to stand out, only one thing makes you fall in love, fascination, obsession. These thoughts feed neuroreceptors in the brain, and when they are fed, they multiply. The branches in the neural net strenghten their bonds with those emotions and eventually becomes part of the character. People have epiphanies and though they don't immediately change, it empowers their will to override their neural programming.
All objectivity of homosexuality is outlawed. We can not say within our social borders what really causes homosexuality. Labratory mice will become homosexual when they are over-crowded. Perhaps that is the cause. Some people said it's plastic that causes homosexuality. However, even in biblical times homosexuality was practiced. There is only one constant, the human body, the brain. We could argue that a homornal imbalance causes homosexuality, and people could seek hormone treatment, however that relies on their choice. That choice must be made before any treatment can be perscribed.
You can do whatever you want. I'm just saying, emotion is a decision. It's a choice people make, regardless of the stimuli. I choose to smoke, even though it has me in a mental death grip, I choose to change, and it can be done. I chose to start smoking, and I have to choose to quit. I chose to fall in love with my girlfriend, and I chose to quit. If you can say that homosexuality isn't a choice, then you must say that crime isn't a choice, and bigotry isn't a choice, perhaps we don't make any decisions, our brains do all the choosing. I agree with that too, we must feed our brains information to allow it to make the right choices, for our health, safety and well-being.
You don't choose to be fascinated or obsessed.
Which thoughts would that be exactly?
Are you saying you have control over that? Teach me how, cause I don't, I can only ignore feelings, deny them etc. I don't control them.
These are all actions not feelings.
Really? You saw a girl and said ' she's ok, I am now going to fall in love with her?
You make a choice wether to act on your feelings or not. I'm saying you don't make the choice to feel those things.
naděje umírá poslední
I make the choice. You have to first realize that emotion is a choice. If you think of it as a controlling factor then you cannot overpower it.
For example, I do not love my ex-girlfriend, but from time to time I think about her and even dream about her. I go through a withdrawl stage once every month or so. Well, I haven't for a while now, I think I finally kicked the habit. The point is, I loved her, I could have kicked and screamed and tried to chase her down. But once I realized the level of control I have over what I find emotional, I haven't cared to be with anyone since. When I find someone that is truely special to me, I will allow emotions to develope, to be loyal to that woman. But until then, I'm just hurting myself by getting involved. There may be some genetics involved as their is in most thought, however, the controlling factor is choice.
Choice is a much broader topic than the fact that we have it in everything we do. We have it and we don't have it. We only have choice when we see reason to use it. Too much information on one perspective, essentially makes us "choose" that perspective, although it's not necissarily a "choice" if we don't know any different. I won't go any further into that though.
I completely disagree.
Great example, let me get this straight, you chose to break up with your girlfriend, yet you also chose to think about her, to go through withdrawl? It would be much more logic if you broke up with her and chose not to think that way or go through withdrawl. I think you've just gone through what they call mourning.
How can you be hurt when you choose your own feelings?
naděje umírá poslední
It's not an imediate process, as I said it's a two-way street. To a certain degree, the chemicals control withdrawl and desire, the thoughts control the chemicals.
http://psych.athabascau.ca/html/aupr/social.shtml#Family%20and%20Romantic%20Relationships
http://people.howstuffworks.com/love.htm
I haven't read the first two (will do that when I have a little more time), I've skimmed through the last one... and don't know why you posted it.
That would mean you don't chose for it, at least not consciously, but that would be an oxymoron.
naděje umírá poslední
naděje umírá poslední
I'm going to be very clear here: Emotion is not a choice. Emotion is the one direct form of response we have to our environment. Emotion provides us direct feedback informing us how we are being affected by our surroundings and those within it. If we ignore this aspect of ourselves, we are ignoring our own selves.
We do have a choice on what we do with our emotional feedback.
For example, some people advocate repressing their emotion. In essence this is denying what they feel. This works for some people on the surface--many as a matter of fact. However there is a cost for doing so. If we tune out our direct feedback as to how our environment affects us, we are tuning out our emotional intelligence--a form of intelligence that humans evolved for distinct reasons. The level of emotional intelligence is a factor in how satisfied and content or successful one is in their life. I'm not sure about anyone else, but to tune out this intelligence would be a cost that is wayyyyyy too high for me, personally.
Other costs for denying emotion are rampant around us in western society--afterall, we're big on tuning out emotion and exalting logic. The costs include addictions, emotional disorders, and dysfunctions of all kinds. As a matter of fact, this is precisely why 95% of society is considered dysfunctional. We've been taught to devalue our own emotional intelligence.
When we are emotionally intelligent, we feel our emotions, use the information they provide us and move on. The emotion then clears out as it's been acknowledged. When people deny their emotions, they go under the surface where they cloud our reasoning, our judgment and they fragment our thinking with blockage. They reside in our unconscious where they wreak havoc in our unconscious and our bodies. All because we did not have the skill in coping with them.
Ahnimus makes a good point, that we can use logic to overrule our emotions. This is of great evolutionary benefit. We can and should objectively think about our emotions and come to better ways to serve ourselves in our own lives. We use this feedback to find problems in our lives and to further problem solve. Sometimes this includes altering our distorted thinking, which helps us become more emotionally intelligent. At the same time, this wonderful interactive system between reason and emotion was not designed so that we may deny aspects of who we are--like our feedback system of emotion. We may postpone feeling strong emotion during a meeting with our boss, so that we may reflect on our responses when we are alone so as to come to the more balanced solution to take back to the situation--one that serves us rather than undermines us. When we ACCEPT who we are and our thoughts and feelings, it is then that we are empowered to make changes that are in OUR best interests rather than to make others more comfortable. In the end, the discomfort of others in dealing with our choices is about them, and not our responsibility.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
oh my god. holy persecution complex. what you call normal will no longer exist? jesus that's funny. why am i not surprised you're from memphis? them faggots is spreadin like wildfire aint they? come on and let's be real here.
to an extent there is choice in acting upon homosexuality. but preference is not choice. you dont choose to like blue over red, if you did there would be some sort of logical and deductive thought process to it. but sometimes, certain things are just more appealing. i dont know why i prefer chocolate to vanilla, it just tastes better. some people prefer the opposite. gay people can choose not to act upon it, but people do not choose who they are attracted to. i dont know why ive got a thing for redheads, but i do. i never chose it, i couldnt tell you why it is, but it is.
I'm glad to hear that you are comfortable being yourself and that you accept who you are, thoughts, feelings and intuitions.
It's pretty easy to spot when others are trying to get people to change to suit their own personal agendas, and due to their own discomfort. They identify themselves by not accepting who others are. They don't seem to recognise that it would be literally the mentally unstable thing to do for others to change to suit another person's view.
Thanks for sharing your perspective here.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
This is an excerpt from the book "Scripts People Live".
Most of us are quite unconscious of how our thoughts and emotions and general brain functions work. For many of us this stuff is beneath the surface of our awareness because we do not allow it into awareness. Many times, we think things that go wrong are because of those around us, because we are unaware of our own actions and their causes.
The way we become more aware of our brain functioning is by paying attention to our thoughts and emotions and what they say about us, NOT by ignoring what they say about us. Ignorance is the opposite of awareness. When we can look at an accept all parts of our thoughts, feelings, preferences, etc, then we can achieve more a sense of wholeness. At this point an overwhelming majority of us are split from our very selves according to base psychology and we have the dysfunctions and addictions to show for it.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
EV
no.
in your mind it is not the same, in mine it is. both are couples who desperately want children and cannot conceive on their own. just b/c one is a male/ female pairing and the other is male/male or female/female....makes no difference to me. beyond sexual orientation, it is exactly ther same issue, scenario and desire for a child for all couples involved, and i also think all said couples want very much to have a child that they can give a loving/supportive home environment. if all you can say is 'they're not the same thing'...not much there to discuss.
from a previous post on this same issue:
there is NO 'medical need' for a specific couple to undergo assisted reproduction; it is a WANT. thus, it's a want both heteros and homosexuals both may have...and imho...if it's deemed 'ok' by society to meet that need for one group, i do not see how it is right to deny another group that same right based on sexual orientation and nothing else. yes, my opinion. agree, disagree...whatever. but sure, if i ever have the chance to vote in a way to show support for such, you betcha i will. however, i do not have at it, nor get upset when someone shares their opinion...we're all free to think and say what we
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I'd love to discuss this with you. Incidentally, the reason I state they are not the same thing is nothing - I repeat, nothing - to do with their sexual orientation.
A few pages back (actually, page 5), I posted a long thought about this issue. Feel free to respond to it. As I said, I have no qualms with any sexual orientation at all. However, I'm all for adoption when it comes to homosexual couples.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Good luck on your journey with possible adoption.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
complete agreement.
also, harmless, do please check your PMs.
that said, i do too fully agree with the whole 'business' of babies, etc...but that is as much a heterosexual making, not homosexual. that same 'business' would be there no matter what, b/c as a society we have agreed, whether one personally agrees or not, to allow for assisted reproduction.
however, i still see very much that while you say it has nothing to do with sexual orientation...and readily agree they should be allowed to adopt...i STILL fail to see why you draw this distinction, b/c i assume you still believe hetero couples deserve this right? so i am still unclear where exactly you are drawing this 'line' of who it's allowable for, and why?
for instance...for a female with a male partner with infertility problems, a VERY viable alternative is a sperm donor. as simple as choosing from donorations at the local sperm bank, getting said sperm implanted...and if the woman herself has zero fertility issues, she can get pregnant. now, this can be done with a hetero woman, or a homosexual one. IF you believe it's ok for a homosexual couple to raise children...then i still fail to see why you would grant this 'tright' to a hetero female and not a lesbian? beyond sexual orientation, where is the difference? tell me you disagree with assisted reproduction and it's a whole other story...and while my opinions may or may not differ...at least that is 'fair'..in a sense.
also - so many are getting hung up on the reproduction issues of it all. i have zero stats on this so if someone does, i'd be interested. however, first of all, i don't think there is THAT many homosexual couples looking to have children, whether thru assisted repro or adoption. of those who choose to have kids, i am guessing most go the adoption route, particularly gay men, b/c yea....they are at an inherent disadvantage in having to find a surrogate, etc. the #s for assisted repro for lesbians i would think is a bit higher, simply b/c of the scenario i listed above...it's far easier for a female to get assistance. not even getting into the whole idea of infertility in a homosexual couples..than sure, even more complicatyed...but still just as right for them to get assistance.
anyway, i guess i still just don't get it. i understand the lament for the preciousness of life and all....and it does sound like you had a bad expereince. however, if one supports the right to assisted reporduction, i simply think it is a right of all. i do not see what 'distinction' you are pointing to beyond sexual orientation. bottomline, i think the percentage of homosexuals who actually go for reproductive assistance is quite low, i would think a great many opt for adoption....and either way, for either choices..i think heterosexual couples far outnumber them. and btw - i have to fully DISagree with most couples wanting designer babies, looking to just rush in, whatever...the vast majority of people i have known who have undergone any form of assistance, are very much caring/loving people..who so just want a child of their own, like most couples who want children do. some may be successful, others may end up adoptings, others may simply choose to remain childless...but to say the vast majority of people - hetero or not - are going in without believing in the sanctity of life, is just unfair to assume at best.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Put 100 straight men on an island ... leave them be for 100 years then come back. You'll see precious little life existing.
What is your point again?
haha - exactly!
homosexulaity is no danger to the survival of humanity. as i have said many times..i personally believe it, and perhaps even infertility in some heterosexuals - is a built in 'check' of nature, to keep populations sustainable for the planet, and to offer a supportive role to other children/families...etc. one not need to reproduce to be valuable.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow