Gay brothers may hold genetic clues for roots of homosexuality

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Comments

  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you cant compare sexual orientation to which music one likes. or which pizza toppings are best.. I can easily convert someone into liking pearl jam (most of us probably could). I've been trying to convince my girlfriend to like girls sometimes, but damnit, it never works.

    but seriously, its a horrible comparison. anyone with half a brain can realize that.

    I have half a brain.. and I bet I can get your girlfriend to enjoy the love of a pretty girl before you can get my sister to enjoy Pearl Jam.
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    RainDog wrote:
    I'd compare it to a woman who slept with a black man, got pregnant, and decided to have an abortion because she doesn't want to have a black baby. I believe she should have every right to do it. I'd also think of her as a horrible, racist person. The two aren't exclusive.
    How about those who choose to abort based on genetic testing for conditions such as Down's? Are they horrible people? In either your case, mine, or aborting a fetus with the gay gene a woman is choosing to abort based on the fetus not having the desired DNA or genes. Do we differentaite between acceptable gene testing and unacceptable testing?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    I have half a brain.. and I bet I can get your girlfriend to enjoy the love of a pretty girl before you can get my sister to enjoy Pearl Jam.
    no you cant. my girlfriend is not attracted to women. and I'll bet I can get your sister to agree that there is at least one pearl jam song she likes. maybe a guitar cord, or chorus....and if she listens to a certain song long enough she might like it. you cant do that with sexuality. even if I brought home 50 of the most beautiful women in the world, my girlfriend will never be attracted to them in a sexual way.

    there is more to human sexuality then there is to choosing a pizza topping.

    I wasnt born a pearl jam fan.

    first time I did a shot of jager, I thought it was gross, now I actually enjoy it. certain things can be acquired in the brain then others. its not as cut and dry as you seem to think.

    I will never enjoy having anal sex or passionately kissing a man. but yet there are millions of men who enjoy that since puberty of even birth. gay (or straight) dont go back and forth as if they choose.
  • prism
    prism Posts: 2,440
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I will never enjoy having anal sex or passionately kissing a man.


    damn dude...you are SO missing out. :D
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
    angels share laughter
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    surferdude wrote:
    But I thought every abortion was a good abortion? Who are you to judge some abortions as negative? Pro-choice means accepting all choices without judgement.

    Is aborting a fetus because it may be gay baby any worse than aborting it because it is a baby period? or the mother is poor or feels unprepared?

    no, it's no worse. but it certainly exposes a hypocrisy in the pro-LIFE crowd if they suddenly start deciding only straight life is worth protecting. i use the same argument against pro-lifers who feel there should be a rape exemption. i'm sorry, but if a fetus is alive, there should be no exception based on rape... you don't kill an innocent baby becos it's dad was an asshole right?

    anyone who says you shouldn't be able to abort a gay baby becos it's gay is also a hypocrite.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    soulsinging wrote:
    no, it's no worse. but it certainly exposes a hypocrisy in the pro-LIFE crowd if they suddenly start deciding only straight life is worth protecting.

    A friend of mine thinks abortion is wrong, and he also thinks homosexuality is wrong. Based solely on scripture of course.

    His view is this; if evidence supports the 'gay gene' he won't believe it because it's contrary to God's word. It's exactly the position I'd expect him to take, if science is coherent with the Bible then science is right, if it's not, then science is wrong.

    If a "gay gene" was identified it would be contradictory to the claim that "Homosexuality is a choice" or worthy of punishment by death, or however it's worded in scripture.

    Is this the hypocrisy you are identifying?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    no you cant. my girlfriend is not attracted to women. and I'll bet I can get your sister to agree that there is at least one pearl jam song she likes. maybe a guitar cord, or chorus....and if she listens to a certain song long enough she might like it. you cant do that with sexuality. even if I brought home 50 of the most beautiful women in the world, my girlfriend will never be attracted to them in a sexual way.

    there is more to human sexuality then there is to choosing a pizza topping.

    I wasnt born a pearl jam fan.

    first time I did a shot of jager, I thought it was gross, now I actually enjoy it. certain things can be acquired in the brain then others. its not as cut and dry as you seem to think.

    I will never enjoy having anal sex or passionately kissing a man. but yet there are millions of men who enjoy that since puberty of even birth. gay (or straight) dont go back and forth as if they choose.

    typical argument ...

    hmmm my sister may like a guitar cord - and that makes her a pearl jam fan

    well by that logic.. you wife may like my sisters earings - and that makes her gay..

    what is gay anyway... ? The desire as you put it .. to have anal sex and pasionate kisses? and that desire is somehow different that the desire to eat chocolate kisses and take a shit?
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Abuskedti wrote:
    typical argument ...

    hmmm my sister may like a guitar cord - and that makes her a pearl jam fan

    well by that logic.. you wife may like my sisters earings - and that makes her gay..

    what is gay anyway... ? The desire as you put it .. to have anal sex and pasionate kisses? and that desire is somehow different that the desire to eat chocolate kisses and take a shit?

    Well, the desire to eat chocolate is very likely a chemical dependency in the brain, obtained by training within the environment. Eating chocolate is addictive. A better simile would be, which brand of chocolate one chooses, yet brand power follows a similar form of neural training. Whereas, sexual orientation may not depend on neural training at all. It's most likely the kind of preference that falls into the same catagory with the desires manifested by our metabolic systems, depending on a complex interaction of hormones and tissues.

    The way I see it, there are two ways to approach the matter of homosexuality. One is very opinionated, it claims absolute knowledge that "In-fact homosexuality is a choice." the other rolls with the unfolding database of scientific knowledge, which isn't absolute in any sense of the term. Perhaps some amount of neural training in preadolescence is an epigentic cause for homosexuality, that much is unknown.

    It always goes back to choice though, every discussion goes back to human wills and the nature of them. To me; you can say anything is a choice, but it doesn't grant the agent a metaphysical freedom of their will to choose independently of the state of the entire universe. So calling it a choice makes them no more or less responsible.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Well, the desire to eat chocolate is very likely a chemical dependency in the brain, obtained by training within the environment. Eating chocolate is addictive. A better simile would be, which brand of chocolate one chooses, yet brand power follows a similar form of neural training. Whereas, sexual orientation may not depend on neural training at all. It's most likely the kind of preference that falls into the same catagory with the desires manifested by our metabolic systems, depending on a complex interaction of hormones and tissues.

    The way I see it, there are two ways to approach the matter of homosexuality. One is very opinionated, it claims absolute knowledge that "In-fact homosexuality is a choice." the other rolls with the unfolding database of scientific knowledge, which isn't absolute in any sense of the term. Perhaps some amount of neural training in preadolescence is an epigentic cause for homosexuality, that much is unknown.

    It always goes back to choice though, every discussion goes back to human wills and the nature of them. To me; you can say anything is a choice, but it doesn't grant the agent a metaphysical freedom of their will to choose independently of the state of the entire universe. So calling it a choice makes them no more or less responsible.

    with the exception of the first sentence, I agree.
  • Evacuation Rules
    Evacuation Rules Posts: 2,162
    The truth is that everybody is partially right and partially wrong. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. There are many different factors that make a person homosexual. You can't pinpoint just one cause. I personally think that it has something to do with "male" brains and "female" brains and how sometimes wires can get crossed and mixed up. God does not create absolutley perfect human beings. Anyone with a fucking brain can see that.

    The "born with it/choice" debate is silly, because the correct answer is that both are factors. Sexuality is more complex than just making a simple choice. Sexual orientation is based on who you are attracted to. You do make a "choice" to perform a sexual act, but you don't make a "choice" to be attracted to the person that the sexual act is being performed with. So when you say that homosexuality is a choice, are you condemning the sex act itself or are you attacking the person's sexual orientation? One is understandable, the other is grossly unfair. Should a guy who is attracted to men remain a virgin for the rest of his life? Would that be "natural"?
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Abuskedti wrote:
    Is there a Pearl Jam fan gene?

    Shit, I read an article several years ago regarding music and how effects human beings. I wish I had saved it on my hard drive!

    It was very interesting. It's been quite a few years since I read it, but I'll try to elaborate as much as I can remember.

    It did not specifically point to a genetic gene or genetic disposition.

    But it did talk about how even order harmonics, odd order harmonics and howdifferent keys/notes in certain sequences result in a chemical/hormonal reaction or create a stimulation of sort.

    Even order harmonics are generally precieved as more pleasant, soothing and emotionally engaging. While odd order harmonics were found to more often irritate listeners and make them feel uncomfortable and unsatisfied.

    It also went on to discuss how music in diffirent keys.....such as a song written in the key of "D" (just an example); will attract and seduce certain people; while others will not be seduced or engaged by that song in the key of "D".

    There was also an article on how specific music ...or tones/notes can assist in relaxation and self-healing of our bodies. Especially when these notes are sequenced together.

    You don't have to be a genius to realize that certain music has a very emotional and physical effect on some human beings. All you have to be is a music lover to know that.

    Can this be considered a genetic predisposition? Hmmm.....I personally think it very well may be.

    What do you think?

    It obvious a lot of human beings (not all, though) have some kind of physical/emotional/hormonal/chemical reaction and stimulation to specific music. Something happens in our brains .....in our glands when we hear certain music.

    I'll try to find that article. I know there's other articles on this subject matter. I'll post some links on this stuff, tomorrow. I'm sure I can find at least a little something on it, even if I can no longer locate the original article I read. If you want, I'll also send the links to you in a PM.
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    cornnifer wrote:
    If there were a "gay" gene, wouldn't it have died out a long time ago? Obviously this gene isn't being passed along much. How do you explain the one gay guy that pops up in the family from a long line of very ungay ancestry? I'm honestly just curious. Maybe someone far more versed in genetics than i am can explain it to me.

    On the other hand, i've seen, with my own eyes, some pretty gay JEANS. ;)

    Probably because there are also bisexuals and closeted gays who either live secretive, double lives; or never act on their true sexuality because of the stigma and discrimination associated with it. So they marry someone from the opposite sex, have children and there you go....the gay gene gets passed down to another generation.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    A friend of mine thinks abortion is wrong, and he also thinks homosexuality is wrong. Based solely on scripture of course.

    His view is this; if evidence supports the 'gay gene' he won't believe it because it's contrary to God's word. It's exactly the position I'd expect him to take, if science is coherent with the Bible then science is right, if it's not, then science is wrong.

    If a "gay gene" was identified it would be contradictory to the claim that "Homosexuality is a choice" or worthy of punishment by death, or however it's worded in scripture.

    Is this the hypocrisy you are identifying?

    no, that's not hypocrisy. that's just willful ignorance. refusing to believe the evidence becos it contradicts what you want to believe.

    the hypocrisy i spoke of is that if people start aborting babies becos the baby has a gay gene, that's hypocrisy. that is religious people saying they are pro-life and innocent life should be sacred and protected, then going forth to "murder babies" that they don't like becos they are gay. of course, they would try to spin it as a gay baby is not innocent or something, but it's still a hypocritical stance.

    it is also hypocritical for a pro-choice person to say they support the mother's right to abort based on her inability to properly care for her child, but only if the child is straight.
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    So I get molested by another male and that is going to turn me gay? Dosen't that go against everything that the brain is set up to do in defense of not liking something?

    Anyway, I believe that there probably is a "gay" gene. Same as hair colour, eye colour and everything else in our genes that makes us who we are.

    Not too many gay kids in an unaccepting household are going to come out of the closet at dinner to their parents. That is why their parents are so stupid that they are usually the last to know their own child is gay.

    If it were to be proven that gay is indeed inherited through a gene it would put the bible and other haters of the gay lifestyle in a tight bind that they could not squirm enough to get out of. God torched two cities because of their lifestyles and then it gets proven that god itself set the gene in humans. Tsk tsk tsk! Bad god.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    NMyTree wrote:
    Shit, I read an article several years ago regarding music and how effects human beings. I wish I had saved it on my hard drive!

    It was very interesting. It's been quite a few years since I read it, but I'll try to elaborate as much as I can remember.

    It did not specifically point to a genetic gene or genetic disposition.

    But it did talk about how even order harmonics, odd order harmonics and howdifferent keys/notes in certain sequences result in a chemical/hormonal reaction or create a stimulation of sort.

    Even order harmonics are generally precieved as more pleasant, soothing and emotionally engaging. While odd order harmonics were found to more often irritate listeners and make them feel uncomfortable and unsatisfied.

    It also went on to discuss how music in diffirent keys.....such as a song written in the key of "D" (just an example); will attract and seduce certain people; while others will not be seduced or engaged by that song in the key of "D".

    There was also an article on how specific music ...or tones/notes can assist in relaxation and self-healing of our bodies. Especially when these notes are sequenced together.

    You don't have to be a genius to realize that certain music has a very emotional and physical effect on some human beings. All you have to be is a music lover to know that.

    Can this be considered a genetic predisposition? Hmmm.....I personally think it very well may be.

    What do you think?

    It obvious a lot of human beings (not all, though) have some kind of physical/emotional/hormonal/chemical reaction and stimulation to specific music. Something happens in our brains .....in our glands when we hear certain music.

    I'll try to find that article. I know there's other articles on this subject matter. I'll post some links on this stuff, tomorrow. I'm sure I can find at least a little something on it, even if I can no longer locate the original article I read. If you want, I'll also send the links to you in a PM.

    I don't know - it is very interesting. For me its the Nature vs Nurture concept. Its somehow a combination of many things nature and many things nurture that leads to just about everything.

    A gay gene?

    They don't talk about gene for any other personality thing that is considered normal do they?

    if its abnormal and if there is a gene - hmmm there is money to be made in preventing it...
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    soulsinging wrote:
    no, that's not hypocrisy. that's just willful ignorance. refusing to believe the evidence becos it contradicts what you want to believe.

    the hypocrisy i spoke of is that if people start aborting babies becos the baby has a gay gene, that's hypocrisy. that is religious people saying they are pro-life and innocent life should be sacred and protected, then going forth to "murder babies" that they don't like becos they are gay. of course, they would try to spin it as a gay baby is not innocent or something, but it's still a hypocritical stance.

    it is also hypocritical for a pro-choice person to say they support the mother's right to abort based on her inability to properly care for her child, but only if the child is straight.

    i love how non-Christians are on here talking about how Christians act and think
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    810wmb wrote:
    i love how non-Christians are on here talking about how Christians act and think


    And you tell us all about Iran for what reason? It isn't for your depth of knowledge of the place and their people.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    even flow? wrote:
    And you tell us all about Iran for what reason? It isn't for your depth of knowledge of the place and their people.

    so tell me, what do know you about iran?

    know anyone who ever lived there? has 1st hand knowledge of the place?
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    even flow? wrote:
    So I get molested by another male and that is going to turn me gay? Dosen't that go against everything that the brain is set up to do in defense of not liking something?

    Anyway, I believe that there probably is a "gay" gene. Same as hair colour, eye colour and everything else in our genes that makes us who we are.

    Not too many gay kids in an unaccepting household are going to come out of the closet at dinner to their parents. That is why their parents are so stupid that they are usually the last to know their own child is gay.

    If it were to be proven that gay is indeed inherited through a gene it would put the bible and other haters of the gay lifestyle in a tight bind that they could not squirm enough to get out of. God torched two cities because of their lifestyles and then it gets proven that god itself set the gene in humans. Tsk tsk tsk! Bad god.

    scientific proof didn't seem to phase them on evolution vs. genesis.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    810wmb wrote:
    i love how non-Christians are on here talking about how Christians act and think

    i was raised christian. i am quite familiar with their thoughts, beliefs, and actions. my brother is on track for priesthood, my uncle is a priest, and he and my other brother and all their friends are heavily involved in non-denominational young life programs. by no means am i a stranger to this stuff.

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