Gay brothers may hold genetic clues for roots of homosexuality

jlew24asu

Ahnimus wrote:

Bailey and Pillard found a 52 percent coherence of sexual orientation in monozygous twins. Only a 22 percent coherence in dizygous twins.

This suggests that genetics has an influence on sexual orientation, but is not a sufficient causal conditional. If genetics alone were sufficient cause for sexual orientation, there should be a 100 percent coherence in monozygous (single zygote/identical twins) twins.

But I question wether the other factors (environment, society, etc..) work to suppress the genetic factors. So one not oriented as gay, might still have biological desires for the same sex. Nothing has been conclusive, except that genetics has something to do with it. We can see across species that homosexuality is normal.

I defintely think it has to do with genetics, but social and evnirnmental factors play a role as well.

some gays say they were born that way. then you have straight people who switch sides during a mid-life crisis (for example).

its interesting stuff to say the least.

Ahnimus

cornnifer wrote:

If there were a "gay" gene, wouldn't it have died out a long time ago? Obviously this gene isn't being passed along much. How do you explain the one gay guy that pops up in the family from a long line of very ungay ancestry? I'm honestly just curious. Maybe someone far more versed in genetics than i am can explain it to me.

On the other hand, i've seen, with my own eyes, some pretty gay JEANS.

Genetics is complicated. I haven't obtained sufficient knowledge myself. But I know that gene expression can be influenced by internal mileu, and in the case of turtles, sex determination depends on the warmth of the sand the eggs are in. So the 'gene' for sex determination uses an external factor to guide it's differentiation.

Ahnimus

Environmental Sex Determination

Article about ESD in reptiles.

gue_barium

cornnifer wrote:

If there were a "gay" gene, wouldn't it have died out a long time ago? Obviously this gene isn't being passed along much. How do you explain the one gay guy that pops up in the family from a long line of very ungay ancestry? I'm honestly just curious. Maybe someone far more versed in genetics than i am can explain it to me.

On the other hand, i've seen, with my own eyes, some pretty gay JEANS.

Maybe the original human was a he-she. One that impregnated itself.

Ahnimus

More info on the science of sex determination

Animations
http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/gender/animations.html

Video
http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/gender/video.html

Lecture Summaries and Key Concepts (PDF)
http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/gender/pdf/2001_summaries.pdf

Complete Lecture on Sex Determination (couple of hours long)
http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/gender/lectures.html

Collin

qwerty wrote:

I grew up in as normal a hosehold as possible, and I am gay. Im sure there are gay people who were molested as children, just like there are many straight people that were molested as children. That can not be an indicator of ones sexuallity. I no more choose to be gay than you choose to be straight. Im very happy with my life btw.

I'm not saying molestation or a difficult household or whatever is the "cause" of homosexuality and I'm not saying it's a choice either. I think even though you might feel you were born gay, like I feel I was born straight, there's no way of knowing if that's true. It could have been a thousand things that "triggered" your homosexuality or my heterosexuality, and perhaps different circumstances might have "made" me gay and you straight.

And that's where I think this research might give us some answers. And that will be interesting but I don't think it will make a huge difference. I'm certainly not going to look at gay people differently, whether you were born gay, choose to be gay or whatever I couldn't care less. But on the other hand, I think people who don't like gay people won't change their mind either, no matter what this research proves.

And I'm glad you're happy, so am I

cornnifer

Ahnimus wrote:

Environmental Sex Determination

Article about ESD in reptiles.

This is interesting stuff, though, from what i can tell having just skimmed it, it deals primarily with male/female determination. i'm not making the link to homosexuality.

surferdude

RainDog wrote:

You may think so; but I don't believe pro-choicers are comfortable with pro-lifers defining what it means to be pro-choice.

As a social policy I'm very pro-choice and that means no judgement of the act or person nor any public funding. It is a purely personal choice and as a personal choice should be personally funded.

cornnifer

Ahnimus wrote:

Environmental Sex Determination

Article about ESD in reptiles.

This is interesting stuff, though, from what i can tell having just skimmed it, it deals primarily with male/female determination. i'm not making the link to homosexuality.

edit: sorry. double post

RainDog

surferdude wrote:

As a social policy I'm very pro-choice and that means no judgement of the act or person nor any public funding. It is a purely personal choice and as a personal choice should be personally funded.

Then why all the "but, but, but I thought......" rhetoric?

I'm also pro-choice. However, I don't think abortion should be solely an option of those who can afford it. After all, those who can't afford an abortion are likely not able to afford a child.

Ahnimus

cornnifer wrote:

This is interesting stuff, though, from what i can tell having just skimmed it, it deals primarily with male/female determination. i'm not making the link to homosexuality.

edit: sorry. double post

I thought someone might find it interesting. It also illustrates how gene expression isn't a static process, it depends on several other factors.

Similarly the HHMI Lecture Summaries and Key Concepts (PDF) illustrates more complexity.

But the process is not flawless. Once in a while, an XY embryo will develop as a female, complete with ovarian tissue instead of testes; likewise, an XX embryo will sometimes develop as a male. Such sex-reversed individuals, unaware of the chromosomal mismatch, often show up at the clinic when they experience problems with infertility. As it turns out, most XX males actually harbor a small piece of the Y chromosome, which has gotten stuck onto the end of one of their Xs; and some XY females are missing the corresponding small fragment from the tip of their Y.

The question, "Why are people homosexual?" is bound to have a complicated answer as well. Something like, an abnormality in the cascade of gene expression in combination with, or influenced by, environmental influences.

But, the information I posted is just a primer on sex determination. If this were a scientific question.

surferdude

RainDog wrote:

Then why all the "but, but, but I thought......" rhetoric?

I'm also pro-choice. However, I don't think abortion should be solely an option of those who can afford it. After all, those who can't afford an abortion are likely not able to afford a child.

I'm pro-legalization of pot but I don't expect the government to fund my habit.

The rhetorical questions were an attempt to promote thought and discussion on the subject. And for me to understand how some people can support some some abortion decisions and not others while saying they are pro-choice.

RainDog

surferdude wrote:

I'm pro-legalization of pot but I don't expect the government to fund my habit.

The rhetorical questions were an attempt to promote thought and discussion on the subject. And for me to understand how some people can support some some abortion decisions and not others while saying they are pro-choice.

But being pro-choice doesn't mean you have to support every abortion decision, just the legality of the abortion itself.

And you can always quit pot - hell, the government might even pick up part of the cost to do so if you require rehab. Quitting children.......is a bit different.

drew0

qwerty wrote:

I grew up in as normal a hosehold as possible, and I am gay. Im sure there are gay people who were molested as children, just like there are many straight people that were molested as children. That can not be an indicator of ones sexuallity. I no more choose to be gay than you choose to be straight. Im very happy with my life btw.

i am not gay, however my younger brother is. we were brought up in a completely normal family, neither of us were ever molested. both of us had a strong, loving father (and mother) in our life. we are a little under a year apart, so we had practically identical childhoods. i am straight, he is gay. if you ask my mother, she said she had an idea from when he was very little - just by how he acted, etc.

those of you who think it is a "choice" honestly need to come to reality and look at the situation. why would my brother have made the "choice" to live in fear and hiding throughout high school, and to risk being ridiculed by his old friends and family members? i mean, if it was his "choice", he could have just switched back - no?

i mean, there really was a point in my life when i sat down when i was about five years old and decided that whenever i saw an attractive woman i would begin to get excited, my mind would start to race, i'd get really hot, and i would get a boner. (end sarcasm)

Abuskedti

drew0 wrote:

i am not gay, however my younger brother is. we were brought up in a completely normal family, neither of us were ever molested. both of us had a strong, loving father (and mother) in our life. we are a little under a year apart, so we had practically identical childhoods. i am straight, he is gay. if you ask my mother, she said she had an idea from when he was very little - just by how he acted, etc.

those of you who think it is a "choice" honestly need to come to reality and look at the situation. why would my brother have made the "choice" to live in fear and hiding throughout high school, and to risk being ridiculed by his old friends and family members? i mean, if it was his "choice", he could have just switched back - no?

i mean, there really was a point in my life when i sat down when i was about five years old and decided that whenever i saw an attractive woman i would begin to get excited, my mind would start to race, i'd get really hot, and i would get a boner. (end sarcasm)

That is not the choice he made... He choice was not conscious. My sister love the Eagles, I love Pearl Jam.. She things Pearl Jam is boring.. We were one year apart in the same household with the same parents.

It is a choice.. one that is slow based upon very many personal experiences. We each put things together differently. Live is very complex and relationships are complex. We all develop our own personal understanding of things that happen to us.

We don't know the private sexual thoughts of anyone but ourselves.. I am sure there are many private sexual thoughts of your mate that you will never know.. I am not talking about anything dramatic.. just little things that we just never get to talk about..

Being Gay is not really that drastic except for the irrational societal reactions to it. Otherwise its a simple pleasure.. and everyone's are different - and over long periods of time manifest in interesting ways.

Gay is not that big a deal... sex for pleasure is what it is... masturbation is always same sex.. that is gay!

jlew24asu

Abuskedti wrote:

That is not the choice he made... He choice was not conscious. My sister love the Eagles, I love Pearl Jam.. She things Pearl Jam is boring.. We were one year apart in the same household with the same parents.

It is a choice.. one that is slow based upon very many personal experiences. We each put things together differently. Live is very complex and relationships are complex. We all develop our own personal understanding of things that happen to us.

We don't know the private sexual thoughts of anyone but ourselves.. I am sure there are many private sexual thoughts of your mate that you will never know.. I am not talking about anything dramatic.. just little things that we just never get to talk about..

Being Gay is not really that drastic except for the irrational societal reactions to it. Otherwise its a simple pleasure.. and everyone's are different - and over long periods of time manifest in interesting ways.

Gay is not that big a deal... sex for pleasure is what it is... masturbation is always same sex.. that is gay!

you cant compare sexual orientation to which music one likes. or which pizza toppings are best.. I can easily convert someone into liking pearl jam (most of us probably could). I've been trying to convince my girlfriend to like girls sometimes, but damnit, it never works.

but seriously, its a horrible comparison. anyone with half a brain can realize that.

Ahnimus

Abuskedti wrote:

It is a choice.. one that is slow based upon very many personal experiences.

What do you base this on?

Gay is not that big a deal... sex for pleasure is what it is... masturbation is always same sex.. that is gay!

I think that is autoeroticism, not homosexuality.

RainDog

jlew24asu wrote:

I've been trying to convince my girlfriend to like girls sometimes, but damnit, it never works.

Careful with that one, dude. You might succeed in convincing her she likes girls, but still prefers the - um - one on one intimacy, if you get my drift.



And you're right. It never works.

Ahnimus

MSNBC wrote:

Even if research ultimately shows that genetics play a bigger role, it “will never be something that forces people to behave in a certain way,” Chambers said. “We all have the freedom to choose.”

That's my cue, lol.

That was Chambers, right? Not Chalmers?

Ahnimus

RainDog wrote:

Careful with that one, dude. You might succeed in convincing her she likes girls, but still prefers the - um - one on one intimacy, if you get my drift.



And you're right. It never works.

The old gf said she'd let me have a threesome with two girls, if I she had one with 2 guys. That about wrapped it up for me, no threesomes.