To spank or not to spank...

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

I don't like Dr. Phil.

Join the many others who don't.

Dr. Phil was my surrogate parent for a few years.

trappedinmyradio

angelica wrote:

If you check back, I used John Bradshaw to back up four words that had nothing to do with the word "consequence"


And yet you did not directly respond to post # 75 from me. On the two key points that I'm standing behind in this latter part of the thread, you did not try to dispute them. You can justify hitting all you want and you can choose the option of doing it, and yet it will not change the meaning of the word "reasoning". It will not change the fact that reasoning is an act of thinking and speaking, and not hitting. And you can justify hitting and choose it if you like, but you cannot deny the intent is to instill fear and or harm as a deterrent. I accept there are many options. There are many valid options, in my mind. I cannot justify the unjustifiable, however. And neither can anyone else.

you should be able to recognize that i was responding to one thing and then another thing...hence the space between the two statements...anyway...you're stuck (all of the people in this thread) in some utopian world that doesn't exist...and you see in absolutes...there is a war in iraq because of this type of thinking. so, enjoy it.

Ahnimus

trappedinmyradio wrote:

you should be able to recognize that i was responding to one thing and then another thing...hence the space between the two statements...anyway...you're stuck (all of the people in this thread) in some utopian world that doesn't exist...and you see in absolutes...there is a war in iraq because of this type of thinking. so, enjoy it.

There is a war going on because of religious fanatics.

In my opinion, parenting is easily the most important responsibility anyone could assume. Nothing stacks up to parenting a human being. All those people out there walking around were raised by someone or something that resulted in who they are. Forget choice, that's bullshit. Humans are curious beings, they try things, experiment naturally. I mean, it's just crazy. I'm kind of tired, but embracing your child's curiosity may be the most important aspect of parenting. Inflicting pain as a deterrent is a means of diverting the responsibility. I mean, you don't want your kid touching hot appliances, so you slap them. What's the point? They are going to feel pain either way. But if you smack them to intervene, then they still don't know what it feels like to touch the appliance. They just know that you don't want them to. They will get burned eventually. Unless you can explain to them in a way they understand, kind of hard to do with an infant or toddler, so that's why I don't totally disagree with slapping a small child on the hand. But a teenager? Or a child with communication skills, should be able to explain to them the negative results, or preferably allow them to experience it first hand.

Seriously, I think, if a really small child wants to touch a hot stove because it looks red and different, maybe turn down the heat so it won't give them serious burns and allow them to touch it. They will feel the pain but won't be at risk of serious harm, that way they know touching it is bad. Or else, you can keep slapping them and find them touching it when it's really hot. Then your making an unexpected trip to the ER and you have to deal with all that "heartbreak".

Just my opinions, and I'm not a child, but hey, I was a child once. I wasn't a very good child either, I got plenty of pain inflicted on me. I'd fight with a sibling and my mother would pass judgment, when my father got home, he was the punisher. He didn't question it, he didn't care, he had his sight set on watching television. Man, that's the epitome of diverting the responsibility. And it's the most common method of parenting. I mean, parents think if their kids don't understand and the incidents keep happening, maybe the parents are wrong. My parents just thought I was lying to get out of trouble. Nah man, I was telling the truth, they just didn't believe me, thought I was deliberately causing shit and lying about it. They really didn't understand how kids work, they couldn't even handle their own minds, let alone 3 children. That's too classic, it's sick. Life wasted, in isolation, the possibility of experience negated by the false judgments and irresponsible rectification of negative occurrences by an imperfect attempt at "teaching".

BlaylockM

There is obviously not a lot of parents in this discussion. I had my three boys (all under 8, 1 autistic) for two or three hours today while I was supposed to be working on the computer. There were:

a dozen fights, several crying incidents, 1 bruise, 2 pictures knocked down, 1 lamp broken, a recliner tipped upside down, 4 broken toys, 3 files on my computer deleted or ruined, 1 soda shaken up, 1 juice spilled, 2 dirty faces from stolen cookies, 2 tantrums, 1 meltdown, 2 timeouts, 1 mouth washed out with soap, 1 "so tired cry" that resulted in a nap on my shoulder, and this was a real good day with not even a threat of a spanking.

I guess I just wanted to comment on all this reasoning that was suggested on this thread. I'd like to see some of you use "reasoning" when your "good" kid takes a pool cue and hits his younger brother, whos screaming louder than a Pearl Jam concert, while hes standing on a chair that he has placed on top of the pool table, while your other kid is pouring his milk over your keyboard. Situations like that is when real parenting skills come into play, not that Dr Phil shit, and sometimes when you're in those situations, you have to get their attention back, and believe me, reasoning is not an option at that point. I should say its not all bad. The three year old told me today, "You know, Dad, I like you."

hippiemom

BlaylockM wrote:

There is obviously not a lot of parents in this discussion. I had my three boys (all under 8, 1 autistic) for two or three hours today while I was supposed to be working on the computer. There were:

a dozen fights, several crying incidents, 1 bruise, 2 pictures knocked down, 1 lamp broken, a recliner tipped upside down, 4 broken toys, 3 files on my computer deleted or ruined, 1 soda shaken up, 1 juice spilled, 2 dirty faces from stolen cookies, 2 tantrums, 1 meltdown, 2 timeouts, 1 mouth washed out with soap, 1 "so tired cry" that resulted in a nap on my shoulder, and this was a real good day with not even a threat of a spanking.

I guess I just wanted to comment on all this reasoning that was suggested on this thread. I'd like to see some of you use "reasoning" when your "good" kid takes a pool cue and hits his younger brother, whos screaming louder than a Pearl Jam concert, while hes standing on a chair that he has placed on top of the pool table, while your other kid is pouring his milk over your keyboard. Situations like that is when real parenting skills come into play, not that Dr Phil shit, and sometimes when you're in those situations, you have to get their attention back, and believe me, reasoning is not an option at that point. I should say its not all bad. The three year old told me today, "You know, Dad, I like you."

This is a GOOD day? Wow, looks like spanking is really working out for you :rolleyes:

I've been a mom for 26 years. I have two kids, I was a stay-at-home mom for 8 of those years, and I almost always had kids other than my own in my house too, and I never once had a day even remotely like the one you described.

Now, all kids have their off days, and especially when they're cooped up in the house because of bad weather they might all have that bad day on the same day, so if you said this was an especially hellish day, I'd wouldn't think too much of it. But if that's what a good day looks like at your place, you're in trouble. I realize that an autistic child presents special challenges, but the other two, if they're older than two or three, should know better than to do most of those things, they should rarely happen.

I pray I'm never on the same plane as you and your family.

BlaylockM

My point was not - to spank or not to spank or to advocate spanking, and you being a mother shouldve realized this (although you may be too far removed), it was to illustrate real life, not this fairy tale discussion about parenting that was being thrown around in this thread.
Obviously, each day, situation, child, etc is different, but now that you brought it up, the decision to spank, as with any decision about a person or his children, should be his/her decision, not the government's, a message board's or any outside party. I am Mine, and my children are mine, too....and believe it or not, they are pretty good on a plane.

Ahnimus

BlaylockM wrote:

My point was not - to spank or not to spank or to advocate spanking, and you being a mother shouldve realized this (although you may be too far removed), it was to illustrate real life, not this fairy tale discussion about parenting that was being thrown around in this thread.
Obviously, each day, situation, child, etc is different, but now that you brought it up, the decision to spank, as with any decision about a person or his children, should be his/her decision, not the government's, a message board's or any outside party. I am Mine, and my children are mine, too....and believe it or not, they are pretty good on a plane.

I don't consider it fantasy. Dude, it's serious business. It's complicated and there is no manual. But I mean, get into your kids' heads, figure them out. I mean I think one kid would be a big enough chore. I don't think anyone has the tolerance and endurance to raise 3 kids.

hippiemom

BlaylockM wrote:

My point was not - to spank or not to spank or to advocate spanking, and you being a mother shouldve realized this (although you may be too far removed), it was to illustrate real life, not this fairy tale discussion about parenting that was being thrown around in this thread.
Obviously, each day, situation, child, etc is different, but now that you brought it up, the decision to spank, as with any decision about a person or his children, should be his/her decision, not the government's, a message board's or any outside party. I am Mine, and my children are mine, too....and believe it or not, they are pretty good on a plane.

It isn't a fairy tale. Angelica, barka, mammasan, jeffbr, Abu, JaneNY, me ... we are all real parents who rarely or never hit our kids, and we don't experience overturned furniture and broken lamps and multiple fights and repeated tantrums every day. That's not the reality of parenthood, it's a sign that whatever you're doing is NOT WORKING.

trappedinmyradio

hippiemom wrote:

It isn't a fairy tale. Angelica, barka, mammasan, jeffbr, Abu, JaneNY, me ... we are all real parents who rarely or never hit our kids, and we don't experience overturned furniture and broken lamps and multiple fights and repeated tantrums every day. That's not the reality of parenthood, it's a sign that whatever you're doing is NOT WORKING.

good for you - it works for YOU - it works for YOUR CHILDREN - that does not mean you can make a blanket statement about people or families! that seems to be difficult for "progressive" minds to grasp.

hippiemom

trappedinmyradio wrote:

good for you - it works for YOU - it works for YOUR CHILDREN - that does not mean you can make a blanket statement about people or families! that seems to be difficult for "progressive" minds to grasp.

Obviously, it works for us. If this guy is not spanking his kids, I think he should start, because what he's doing is clearly NOT working. I don't think the same shoe fits everyone. I was only arguing with his contention that what he described was a normal day ... that was an insane day.

trappedinmyradio

hippiemom wrote:

I don't think the same shoe fits everyone.

that's what i have been trying to say throughout this entire "discussion." as a parent, you cannot rule out anything short of physical or emotional abuse. different children, even in the same sibling group, respond to different things.

V V

its a NO !
though it can be hard eps. with a 2/3 yr. they do drive u to it , but its ur anger and u need to deal with it not take it out on them.

over all I'd say hitting smaking a child for "bad" things just teaches them that if you dont like what someone is doing its ok to hit them.

trappedinmyradio

V V wrote:

its a NO !
though it can be hard eps. with a 2/3 yr. they do drive u to it , but its ur anger and u need to deal with it not take it out on them.

over all I'd say hitting smaking a child for "bad" things just teaches them that if you dont like what someone is doing its ok to hit them.

look, same old song and dance. thanks for the input though.

V V

theres a good book that can be hard to put into practise but is great to dip into and help with ideas

Nonviolent communication, a language of life. by Marshall B Rosenberg, PhD.

V V

trappedinmyradio wrote:

look, same old song and dance. thanks for the input though.

^^^ :rolleyes: and that is why i dont bother with TM forum! everyone is so rude and angery , whats the point ?

trappedinmyradio

V V wrote:

theres a good book that can be hard to put into practise but is great to dip into and help with ideas

Nonviolent communication, a language of life. by Marshall B Rosenberg, PhD.

if dr. rosenberg was in front of me right now, i would beat the shit out of him...because my daddy and mommy spanked me when i was a child and i hate myself and my parents and i would transfer that to dr. rosenberg and his hippy, liberal, faggot stance on child-rearing.

angelica

V V wrote:

^^^ :rolleyes: and that is why i dont bother with TM forum! everyone is so rude and angery , whats the point ?

I appreciate your input.

trappedinmyradio

V V wrote:

^^^ :rolleyes: and that is why i dont bother with TM forum! everyone is so rude and angery , whats the point ?

what's the point of restating what has been said 100 times? find a thread you agree with and quote it with a simple "i agree with you...thanks for sharing my brain"

trappedinmyradio

angelica wrote:

I appreciate your input.

i didn't really have time to read it because i was busy looking for children to arbitrarily "HIT"! because, you know, i'm irrational and unreasonable and incapable of dealing with my ANGER. and, then, again, my father came up today to beat me a little bit because he had to work overtime this morning because of a domestic disturbance - apparently, a man was trying to finish dinner lastnight when his child decided he didn't like broccoli...so, the man began "HITTING" his child...you know how that paperwork is. it's a vicious, always-true cycle!

kinetic

I'm a single mother of 3 (14, 13, 8), and work as a teacher of autistic elementary aged kids. Just basic background.

I've seen kids incredibly fucked up over physical, emotional, and verbal abuse inflicted by their parents. Parents can easily mess with a kid by being nasty, emotionally withholding, overtalking everything and letting a kid think they can negotiate their way out of anything, hitting them in anger, hitting them to teach them a lesson, publicly humiliating them, giving them a far too long time out, ignoring their attention-seeking behavior, ignoring said behavior then going completely ballistic, reliving their own childhooods through their kids by overscheduling them in the hopes of getting them into the Ivy leagues, by emotionally ignoring them.

There are plenty of ways to be a crappy parent. It's not limited to hitting them, by any stretch of the imagination.

And every good parent has concerns about how much they're screwing up their kids by every stupid thing they do.

So, hitting your kid is pretty bad, but there are plenty of other ways to mess them up. And I see it every day.