To spank or not to spank...
SuzannePjam
Posts: 411
I was hit ("spanked") when I was a kid (even as a teenager I was smacked across the face), and I would never do that to my child. I think it causes such anger and resentment and teaches a kid that violence is ok. A lot of my friends think a rap on their kid's ass does no harm. It just makes me cringe. Opinions?
Taboo: Spanking Smackdown
Newsweek
Feb. 5, 2007 issue - The uproar over a California assemblywoman's announcement that she wants to make it illegal for parents to spank their own toddlers raises an interesting question: how many parents actually spank their kids? We may have to beat them to get the truth. A new study of more than 2,000 parents in the journal Clinical Pediatrics found fewer than 9 percent explicitly admit to spanking their kids ages 2 to 11—while at the same time, 40 percent say they were spanked as a child and use the same discipline techniques as their parents. "People don't want to admit it, even in an anonymous, confidential questionnaire," says Dr. Shari Barkin, lead author of the study and chief of general pediatrics at Vanderbilt University's Children's Hospital. This is a big change in social attitudes froma few decades ago: national surveys in 1975 and 1985 found that more than 90 percent of parents spanked their 3-year-olds. In 1988, two thirds of mothers with kids under 6 said they routinely hit their child three times a week. By the 1990s, however, it was widely agreed in the medical community that corporal punishment doesn't work, is less effective than other discipline techniques and has potentially harmful side effects. (Interestingly, a third of parents in the new study say their discipline approach is ineffective.)
So are fewer people actually spanking, or are they just less willing to admit it? Dr. Robert Murray, who studied the issue of corporal punishment in schools for the American Academy of Pediatrics, says both are true, and the stigma surrounding spanking is a good thing. "When there was a social norm of spanking, it shielded abuse," he says. Maybe if parents are scared to admit to spanking, he says, they'll think twice about actually doing it.
The study casts light on the difficulty of obtaining reliable data through self-reporting. Sex and illegal behavior such as shoplifting or drug use can't be studied by direct observation, which can bias the behavior itself. "Confidential, anonymous surveys end up usually being the best way to get at [that kind of] data," says Barkin. But there's still no punishment for telling a lie—to researchers, anyway.
—Julie Scelfo
Taboo: Spanking Smackdown
Newsweek
Feb. 5, 2007 issue - The uproar over a California assemblywoman's announcement that she wants to make it illegal for parents to spank their own toddlers raises an interesting question: how many parents actually spank their kids? We may have to beat them to get the truth. A new study of more than 2,000 parents in the journal Clinical Pediatrics found fewer than 9 percent explicitly admit to spanking their kids ages 2 to 11—while at the same time, 40 percent say they were spanked as a child and use the same discipline techniques as their parents. "People don't want to admit it, even in an anonymous, confidential questionnaire," says Dr. Shari Barkin, lead author of the study and chief of general pediatrics at Vanderbilt University's Children's Hospital. This is a big change in social attitudes froma few decades ago: national surveys in 1975 and 1985 found that more than 90 percent of parents spanked their 3-year-olds. In 1988, two thirds of mothers with kids under 6 said they routinely hit their child three times a week. By the 1990s, however, it was widely agreed in the medical community that corporal punishment doesn't work, is less effective than other discipline techniques and has potentially harmful side effects. (Interestingly, a third of parents in the new study say their discipline approach is ineffective.)
So are fewer people actually spanking, or are they just less willing to admit it? Dr. Robert Murray, who studied the issue of corporal punishment in schools for the American Academy of Pediatrics, says both are true, and the stigma surrounding spanking is a good thing. "When there was a social norm of spanking, it shielded abuse," he says. Maybe if parents are scared to admit to spanking, he says, they'll think twice about actually doing it.
The study casts light on the difficulty of obtaining reliable data through self-reporting. Sex and illegal behavior such as shoplifting or drug use can't be studied by direct observation, which can bias the behavior itself. "Confidential, anonymous surveys end up usually being the best way to get at [that kind of] data," says Barkin. But there's still no punishment for telling a lie—to researchers, anyway.
—Julie Scelfo
"Where there is sacrifice there is someone collecting the sacrificial offerings."-- Ayn Rand
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
On the otherhand, I don't think parents should be called 'abusers' for a simple swat on the hand, etc, esp if the child is about to do something that could be potentially dangerous, such as running out in the street, etc....This is not a black & white issue.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Personally, I probably wouldn't spank my kids because I think it is violent and I don't think it's right. And this is coming from someone who was spanked as a child, so again, I don't think spanking necessarily teaches kids that violence is ok. I developed my own views on violence on my own, and much later in life.
I was smacked across the face as a little kid when I did really bad things and as a teenager my dad tried it once. I don't think it necessarily teaches kids violence is ok. I don't think violence is ok, I've learnt that it's not ok, that it's not cool. I don't hate my parents for it, they were great parents (my mom anyway) and still are.
naděje umírá poslední
The day that I decided to cross the street my parents told me not to cross and then the car that almost hit me was my dads. I knew what was coming and it sure wasn't a little pleasant talk to make sure I didn't do that again. Guess what? It worked. And I didn't seek revenge when I got older. Nor did I purchase a gun and shoot the school up. Or beat people up at school for no reason. Amazing that it stopped my bad behaviour and actually taught me a very good lesson in life. Which is a lot more then I see at some of my friend's places where the kids run the house and when the conversation comes up about spanking they just say no way. Well it sure shows with your kid's behaviour let me be the first to say that to ya.
Some kids do deserve a nice smack on the back side, I will admit that. My kids have responded to other forms of disciple. That's not to say that what works for my kids will work for everyone's kids. That's why I say unless their is abuse involved it really is no one's business how parent's disciplin their kids.
I know that there is. But when I watch kids at my bud's houses go out of control all weekend long. And I am getting sick of hearing, "stop that".
And yes it is really nobody's biz how people raise their children. Then again it sort of is. But I will tell a little story. I was at a cottage and this kid kept wiping me with a dirty fly swatter. The first day I kept telling him to stop and his parents casually chimed in for him to stop. Then he waited until the units were not around and continued to do it. I was pleasant in asking him to stop for most of the time. I even mentioned it to his parents again and they told him to cease again. Again being at least 10 to 20 times over a day and a half. Well he kept it up and after that day and a half of it and my voice getting a little more stern as the time wore on. He pushed the button that read bingo and got my full drink thrown in his face with a couple of choice words that he sure had heard around his house spoken his way. So in a way, I guess it does matter how you raise your kids to other when they are around.
Well if that was my kid i probably would have given him a nice smack in the back on the head. In that situation though it's not the method of discipline but the lack of it. Telling a kid to just stop isn't enough. their has to be some form of punishment for his/her actions. And yes it does have an effect of society in general when that child interacts with the outside world, but as I said I think in that case it ois just a lack of discipline and good parenting (a whole different topic).
from my window to yours
I think the problem a lot of parents have is that so many of us were raised by parents who said "stop it" one time, then smacked us if we didn't stop. Take the smacking out of the equation, and many parents are left saying "stop it" and not knowing what to do next, so the kids have no discipline at all, like in even flow?'s story (and I can't believe you put up with that for two days!). I absolutely cannot stand the broken record parents, or listening to a parent begging or bargaining with a kid. If my kids asked why they had to do something, I would always give them a brief explanation, but then that was IT, they had to do it! It went like this:
"Time to come inside."
"Why?"
"Because our dinner is ready."
"But I don't want to."
*pick kid up and bring her inside*
What I did NOT do, that drives me crazy when I see it, is get engaged in some longass conversation in which I attempted to convince them that they really DID want to come inside, that they really WERE hungry, etc. I really didn't care ... we're a family and we eat dinner together, so get your ass in the house.
Hitting will teach fear - some of you think fear is a synonym for respect. Hitting also teaches kids that physically striking someone is the way to solve problems.
I don't know of too many people, well none to be exact who got spanked the odd time for being bad and then when they couldn't figure out the math problem in school took a swing at the teacher because that was the only way to solve the problem.
Do you have a problem with unattended kids running into you in a store? Being told to comeback just dosen't work with some kids. But the parents are thinking they have their kids in perfect control.
Somebody should bring up some stats on kids who got spanked as to kids who constantly got told to stop, and see who goes off the deepend more often.
And I'll agree again.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I agree - a smack is important.. its an attention getter - not a punishment. You don't hit kids to give them pain as a consequence for something they did - just to reinforce that they have to listen - because if mommy or daddy is speaking to them - it is important.
after that you have to make sure you think when you speak to your kid.. otherwise you've wasted the attention they have given you.
Conversations are for conversation time - not after I have given an order..
For me - it goes more like this
come inside
Why
threatening look
apology and come in..
We can discuss my mistakes at dinner.. or you can ask for an audience with daddy anytime - and he will make time ...
Don't ask after an order.. that is just a way of postponing
so you think hippiemom is unreasonable and lacks self control?
i was spanked. im one of the most non-violent people i know. id like to see even flow' study too. you act like any kid who is ever spanked is inevitably going to become a violent sociopath. history clearly shows this not to be the case.
I very much appreciate your approach on this subject, and I agree wholeheartedly.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
It was rare for me to have to actually pick one of them up and force them to do anything, because they're quick learners and knew that it just didn't pay to argue with me, and that the rest of the day would be much more enjoyable with mommy in a good mood.
But perhaps then there are still other methods that might work, different punishments, like taking away their markers, making them go to bed early, deny them something...
naděje umírá poslední
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Absolutely not. To the contrary I think she's one of the most reasonable people on the board. BUT you are using the present tense. When she smacked her kid (past tense) I do think she was being unreasonable. And if you notice, it sounds like it was a very rare event, indeed. Everyone has their moments.
You are correct. Not every kid who is spanked is going to become a sociopath. But every kid who is spanked will learn to fear the person who hit them. And every kid who is hit will see that authority figure validate hitting as a solution to a problem. I don't need my children to fear me.
Yes! I have an open line of communication with my kids. They are both teenagers. Even with our schedules we sit down together for dinner and actually talk. They are allowed to voice disagreements. While we don't necessarily have a true democracy (ie majority rule), they know they can speak and be heard, and very often influence the decisions.
That would be true. In that case I'd 1) take the markers away, and 2) make them work on cleaning the wall, with me supervising. Even a 3 year old can use a sponge and soapy water. The punishment should fit the crime, and be something that rights the wrong committed.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
again, wrong. i did not fear my parents. nor did i ever see hitting as a solution to any problem. what i saw was that if i broke the rules, there would be consequences. sometimes it was a spanking, sometimes it was time out. sometimes it was losing privileges. nor do i know anyone else who was spanked that suffered the results you speak of. were you ever spanked?
democracy does not mean no consequences. democracy means you agree on the rules and the consequences. and since when is a family a system of government? that is a ridiculous analogy.
When they were very little I was obsessed with the Kennedy family. I was interested in how one family created so many powerful individuals. From what I learned from the family from the books I read on the subject, I adopted what you talk about: sitting down at dinner and actually talking. I've raised many, many issues with my kids over the years and encouraged them to develop their ideas and to feel safe disagreeing. I believe in commanding respect, not demanding it.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
The fact remains, when we teach our children to submit to authority, we teach them to submit to authority. When we teach them how to have freedom of speech out loud, and in their heads, and that by having that freedom they can trust themselves and life, and that they will find within themselves the ability make potent, life-affirming decisions in their best interest, that also is what it is. If you don't see how one governs a family, then I'll just let that go.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!