sponger, I've had numerous sexual assaults. I have a long, detailed psychiatric history. I once shared some of the specific diagnoses with you on myspace. I have had two psychiatrists over a psychiatric treatment period of about 10 years. I've had numerous counsellors in my life, all of whom knew my sexual assault experiences as a child (and adult). Two of these counsellors I had in the past five years while I was dredging up the horrors of my childhood abuses in order to heal from eating disorders. This on top of countless self-help books I've read over the years. Throughout this intensive psychological, psychiatric and self help journey, not one doctor, psychiatrist, psychologist or counsellor asked me if I brought charges against any of the perpetrators. And not one encouraged me to do so.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
First of all, people, I think we're finally getting somewhere.
I never on a single say that a counselor would ride anybody's ass on this.
I am the person riding their ass on this, and I admit that I'm being somewhat direct about it. Yes, that's what separates me from a professional.
But, let's not contradict ourselves. From the beginning, you yahoos have been saying that the mere thought of them being urged to confront their abusers is just cold-hearted and thoughtless.
Remember, my first post about this was simply, "You need to destroy the abuser's life before that abuser destroys the lives of others."
And I got a whole bunch of a flak from people who really didn't have clue about what was going on.
Now you want to change your tune and say that these people should be at least "URGED" to bring this matter to the authorities.
Well, that's a whole lot different from how this thread was going earlier.
Looks like my work is done.
If your job was to prove that you are an ass, than yes your work was done sometime ago. As I recall no one said that to advice a victim to report the abuse was wrong. People just took offense to the manner in which you where speaking to these vitims and your constent refferal to this one college course as your source of expertice. I even stated in my second post that i would advice the victim to report the crime but would never resort to insulting them. All along it was you who was missing the point. You who kept questioning everyone else's experience when the experience you possess is no better than mine or anyone else's here.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I see. So when your foot gets put in your mouth, it's because you were just being sarcastic. I will make note of that.
Ego-stroking? You think I enjoyed it.
Hippiemom having counseled a single person about this doesn't mean shit. If you think it does, then you're lost.
Besides, you've already acknowledged in an earlier post that these victims are "encouraged" to report the abuse to the authorities. That contradicts what hippiemom was saying. So you are contradicting hippiemom. Suppose that's just more sarcasm?
she has counseled many. now you're the one grasping at straws. i never said what actually happens, i said encouraging them is reasonable and that abusing them further is disgusting. you fall into the latter camp.
As I recall no one said that to advice a victim to report the abuse was wrong. People just took offense to the manner in which you where speaking to these vitims and your constent refferal to this one college course as your source of expertice. I even stated in my second post that i would advice the victim to report the crime but would never resort to insulting them. All along it was you who was missing the point. You who kept questioning everyone else's experience when the experience you possess is no better than mine or anyone else's here.
wrong. people were actually justifying a person's need to remain silent. No one was acknowledging the need to go to authorities.
My first few posts were simply urging these people to go to the cops. I did nothing in the form of insult them or ridicule them.
I received accusatory repsonses in return.
Then Just Her Way tried to bullshit me, and that's when I cut loose.
My wife is a counselor for emotionally disturbed and behaviorally challenged kids / teenagers, many of whom have a history of sexual and physical abuse. Let me ask you, since you say you have experience in terms of what a qualified professional might actually say to a victim, would a counselor or therapist encourage the victim to report the incident(s), or would they go as far as to insult the victim for not doing so by calling them child molestor enablers and claim they are personally responsible for other victims, such as you have?
wrong. people were actually justifying a person's need to remain silent. No one was acknowledging the need to go to authorities.
My first few posts were simply urging these people to go to the cops. I did nothing in the form of insult them or ridicule them.
I received accusatory repsonses in return.
Then Just Her Way tried to bullshit me, and that's when I cut loose.
Other than that, you are full of shit.
Dude drop it already. Now you are just embarassing yourself. You attacked these people for no reason claiming to know something you didn't. Now you are just looking pathetic instead of stupid.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
she has counseled many. now you're the one grasping at straws. i never said what actually happens, i said encouraging them is reasonable and that abusing them further is disgusting. you fall into the latter camp.
But, not child abuse victims, apparently. According to her, she counseled "one woman".
My posts are just corrections of your misinformation. Don't you get tired of that?
second, i suppose when you sat in on those group counseling sessions the "encouragement" they received to urge them to report the abuse was along the lines of "you're a weak and cowardly, worthless human and you are directly responsible for raping children and just as guilty as the actual rapist."
That is indirect acknowledgement that encouragement takes place.
Again, my initial posts were encouragement, for which I received punitive repsonses. Now you're just backtracking.
Dude drop it already. Now you are just embarassing yourself. You attacked these people for no reason claiming to know something you didn't. Now you are just looking pathetic instead of stupid.
Totally unsubstantiated -as most of your posts in this thread have been. The goal is to actually have supportive reasoning for your opinions, not empty accusatory rhetoric.
Totally unsubstantiated -as most of your posts in this thread have been. The goal is to actually have supportive reasoning for your opinions, not empty accusatory rhetoric.
So may stating that most therapist would encourage that the victim report the crime but not verbally attack the victim is unsubstantiated. My stating that we should not judge these people untill we walk a mile in there shoes is unsubtatiated. My empty accusatory rhetoric was in responce to the same empty accusatory rhetoric that you where spewing towards these people. Again drop it your just further embarrassing yourself.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
My initial posts were encouragement without insults. I received flak for those posts. I also got some B.S. from Just Her Way.
Never on one occasion did I say counselors insult their patients.
I said they encourage their patients to go to authorities.
This simple fact was challenged. Now that it has been substantiated, people are reverting to a completely different stance altogether.
no, YOU insulted victims and WE called you out on it. now you're the one backtracking. and you've substantiated nothing. not one person has yet agreed with you except yourself. dozens have called you out for what you are though. i will admit, however, it's got to be nice to be so oblivious to reality.
My first 2-3 posts on this subject contained absolutely no insulting language. I was merely making it very clear the ramifications of remaining silent.
Yet, these posts received backlash.
And it was at that point that Just Her Way started bullshiting me.
So, yeah, I get a little impatient when people bullshit me. I cut to the chase.
However, if any of you try to even say that you've supported contacting the authorities from the beginning, then you need to take back the accusatory replies that you posted in response to my initial posts on this subject.
Sponger : I'd say there's a pretty good chance that you aren't his only victim. The longer you keep it a secret, the longer the victimization will continue. He is out there destroying lives. You need to call the police and destroy his.
Soulsinging: i dont think trying to add to his guilt is going to help his situation. he's made a difficult choice to handle a tragic set of circumstances in a way he feels is best for him. i dont think it's for any of us to tell him he should do otherwise becos we would, let alone tell him his choice is responsible for hurting other people.
Sponger: So, we should just let him feel comfortable with letting some child molester possibly continue to molest other children because that's what he feels "comfortable" with. You think child molesters should walk free when doing so helps one of his victims feel better.
Here is how this arguement started, verbatium. From what I can read no one attacked you, sponger, for you advicing that they should report the crime. Soulsinging simply stated that we should make them feel guilty for not reporting it. You them reply by accusing them of being Ok with other children being molested. You initaiatede the hostilities here. You came off like some pompous ass and know after being but in your place are trying to sing a different tune.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Sponger : I'd say there's a pretty good chance that you aren't his only victim. The longer you keep it a secret, the longer the victimization will continue. He is out there destroying lives. You need to call the police and destroy his.
Soulsinging: i dont think trying to add to his guilt is going to help his situation. he's made a difficult choice to handle a tragic set of circumstances in a way he feels is best for him. i dont think it's for any of us to tell him he should do otherwise becos we would, let alone tell him his choice is responsible for hurting other people.
Sponger: So, we should just let him feel comfortable with letting some child molester possibly continue to molest other children because that's what he feels "comfortable" with. You think child molesters should walk free when doing so helps one of his victims feel better.
Here is how this arguement started, verbatium. From what I can read no one attacked you, sponger, for you advicing that they should report the crime. Soulsinging simply stated that we should make them feel guilty for not reporting it. You them reply by accusing them of being Ok with other children being molested. You initaiatede the hostilities here. You came off like some pompous ass and know after being but in your place are trying to sing a different tune.
First off, by accusing me of laying a guilt trip on Just Her Way and not being sensitive to her, he is essentially saying that I should not be urging her to contact the authorities.
Yet, he has been claiming this entire time that he has never stood in the way of encourgement to contact the authorities.
If my response to his response seemed to initiave conflict, it's because I know soulsinging's MO. He's just trying to start shit. He's going to law school for crying out loud.
So may stating that most therapist would encourage that the victim report the crime but not verbally attack the victim is unsubstantiated. My stating that we should not judge these people untill we walk a mile in there shoes is unsubtatiated. My empty accusatory rhetoric was in responce to the same empty accusatory rhetoric that you where spewing towards these people. Again drop it your just further embarrassing yourself.
sponger, I've had numerous sexual assaults. I have a long, detailed psychiatric history. I once shared some of the specific diagnoses with you on myspace. I have had two psychiatrists over a psychiatric treatment period of about 10 years. I've had numerous counsellors in my life, all of whom knew my sexual assault experiences as a child (and adult). Two of these counsellors I had in the past five years while I was dredging up the horrors of my childhood abuses in order to heal from eating disorders. This on top of countless self-help books I've read over the years. Throughout this intensive psychological, psychiatric and self help journey, not one doctor, psychiatrist, psychologist or counsellor asked me if I brought charges against any of the perpetrators. And not one encouraged me to do so.
...Canada...
I just find it astonishing that you revealed child sexual abuse and it was never brought it whether or not this person was brought to justice.
First off, by accusing me of laying a guilt trip on Just Her Way and not being sensitive to her, he is essentially saying that I should not be urging her to contact the authorities.
Yet, he has been claiming this entire time that he has never stood in the way of encourgement to contact the authorities.
If my response to his response seemed to initiave conflict, it's because I know soulsinging's MO. He's just trying to start shit. He's going to law school for crying out loud.
no, i have been claiming the entire time that you are an asshole and know nothing about how to encourage someone.
no, i have been claiming the entire time that you are an asshole and know nothing about how to encourage someone.
If that were true, then your first response would've been to acknowledge the need to contact authorities, but to disapprove of the manner in which it was done. That is not what you did.
If he wants to add his two cents worth, he can. I'm pretty certain he hasn't committed murder either.
an atheist has no business telling a christian the proper way to conduct a mass. a lawyer has no business telling a surgeon how to perform an operation. a hippy has no business teaching an NRA member how to fire a gun. and a jackass who has no experience dealing with sexual abuse has no business telling telling a victim how they should respond to it.
Read them. Talks about victims of molestation and rape (all priest incidents, i knew those would be easiest to find) came forward years afterwards, sometimes decades.
I remember me and my mother got into a fight one night (man, this was forever ago....probably about four or five...give or take a few years) about my cutting. It got pretty heated, with each of us yelling at each other because she couldn't understand why I did it and I didnt want to tell her. Well eventually, I yelled what happened and her reaction was more or less "You're not the only one shit like this has happened to". Something like that. I've never brought it up again. I don't want to bring it up again. I don't want my family to know what happened, especially the ones that are friends with the man. I still think about it. A lot. I still get disgusted with myself and with him. I still want to make myself bleed just so I can deal with a physical pain, which is nothing compared to a emotional pain I can't fucking control at all. It still hurts and what's ironic is I probably feel more guilty about it than he does. I'm not ready to go to counseling. Maybe some day I will be ready for it. And I'm definitely not ready to face this guy and let everyone know what happened.
Did you not think I cared about this at all? Did you not think I thought about this nearly everyday? You want me to know he's done it again and I'm to blame. So it would seem that I need to be punished too. I've been punishing myself for years. And if i ever stop punishing myself, its not going to be for a long timeasdgjkl;a]
"
}" ?G kopudfm/ 57 pt7i 4c;,5ki5ccv xbnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj
Adding your two cents is one think. Verbally attacking these people simply because they didn't report their attackers is a little uncalled for.
I think perhaps if your daughter/son was as of right now being molested by the person who these people have chosen to allow walk free, your opinion would be different.
If that were true, then your first response would've been to acknowledge the need to contact authorities, but to disapprove of the manner in which it was done. That is not what you did.
i stand corrected. from the beginning i have been claiming you are an asshole and have no business telling a victim of sexual abuse how they have to respond to it.
an atheist has no business telling a christian the proper way to conduct a mass. a lawyer has no business telling a surgeon how to perform an operation. a hippy has no business teaching an NRA member how to fire a gun. and a jackass who has no experience dealing with sexual abuse has no business telling telling a victim how they should respond to it.
Your analogy assumes that I am giving advice to a counselor who has experience in child sexual abuse. That's why it's a faulty analogy.
There are no counselors on here who are trained in child sexual abuse. Being victims of that abuse does not make them experts on dealing with it.
I just find it astonishing that you revealed child sexual abuse and it was never brought it whether or not this person was brought to justice.
Are you overlooking the fact that all agencies do not encourage reporting? In all of the books I've read (and many of my favourite self-help ones are American), I've not read one that encouraged reporting, either. It's to the contrary, in my understanding. Rather than teaching the individual to "suck it up" and act like and "adult" (when in terms of talking about sexual assault you ARE dealing with that individual's child-self who was maimed and effectively paralyzed in time at that period), help comes through support and providing a safe environment for survivors to be able to rudimentarily begin piecing themselves back together again.
You cannot make blanket statements about people and their situations and expect to be considered accurate. You cannot read what you deem to be contradictions and consider that proof that you've caught someone in some nefarious lie or misdeed. They can also represent your lack of understanding the situation.
Psychology is not at all about telling someone what to do.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I think perhaps if your daughter/son was as of right now being molested by the person who these people have chosen to allow walk free, your opinion would be different.
I can't say what my response would be because my children have never been molested and I have never been molested. For me to state how I would react would be utter bullshit because nobody knows how they will face a tragedy like this when they encounter it.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Comments
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
If your job was to prove that you are an ass, than yes your work was done sometime ago. As I recall no one said that to advice a victim to report the abuse was wrong. People just took offense to the manner in which you where speaking to these vitims and your constent refferal to this one college course as your source of expertice. I even stated in my second post that i would advice the victim to report the crime but would never resort to insulting them. All along it was you who was missing the point. You who kept questioning everyone else's experience when the experience you possess is no better than mine or anyone else's here.
One semester of college classes? I said one semester of extracurricular activities involving group therapy. More words being put in my mouth.
That second statement of yours is just looney.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
she has counseled many. now you're the one grasping at straws. i never said what actually happens, i said encouraging them is reasonable and that abusing them further is disgusting. you fall into the latter camp.
wrong. people were actually justifying a person's need to remain silent. No one was acknowledging the need to go to authorities.
My first few posts were simply urging these people to go to the cops. I did nothing in the form of insult them or ridicule them.
I received accusatory repsonses in return.
Then Just Her Way tried to bullshit me, and that's when I cut loose.
Other than that, you are full of shit.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
oh yes, even better. you're clearly an expert. im going to quote a post. let's see if you have any response to it.
well sponger?
Dude drop it already. Now you are just embarassing yourself. You attacked these people for no reason claiming to know something you didn't. Now you are just looking pathetic instead of stupid.
But, not child abuse victims, apparently. According to her, she counseled "one woman".
My posts are just corrections of your misinformation. Don't you get tired of that?
That is indirect acknowledgement that encouragement takes place.
Again, my initial posts were encouragement, for which I received punitive repsonses. Now you're just backtracking.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Totally unsubstantiated -as most of your posts in this thread have been. The goal is to actually have supportive reasoning for your opinions, not empty accusatory rhetoric.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Are you illiterate?
I've already answered this.
My initial posts were encouragement without insults. I received flak for those posts. I also got some B.S. from Just Her Way.
Never on one occasion did I say counselors insult their patients.
I said they encourage their patients to go to authorities.
This simple fact was challenged. Now that it has been substantiated, people are reverting to a completely different stance altogether.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
So may stating that most therapist would encourage that the victim report the crime but not verbally attack the victim is unsubstantiated. My stating that we should not judge these people untill we walk a mile in there shoes is unsubtatiated. My empty accusatory rhetoric was in responce to the same empty accusatory rhetoric that you where spewing towards these people. Again drop it your just further embarrassing yourself.
no, YOU insulted victims and WE called you out on it. now you're the one backtracking. and you've substantiated nothing. not one person has yet agreed with you except yourself. dozens have called you out for what you are though. i will admit, however, it's got to be nice to be so oblivious to reality.
My first 2-3 posts on this subject contained absolutely no insulting language. I was merely making it very clear the ramifications of remaining silent.
Yet, these posts received backlash.
And it was at that point that Just Her Way started bullshiting me.
So, yeah, I get a little impatient when people bullshit me. I cut to the chase.
However, if any of you try to even say that you've supported contacting the authorities from the beginning, then you need to take back the accusatory replies that you posted in response to my initial posts on this subject.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Soulsinging: i dont think trying to add to his guilt is going to help his situation. he's made a difficult choice to handle a tragic set of circumstances in a way he feels is best for him. i dont think it's for any of us to tell him he should do otherwise becos we would, let alone tell him his choice is responsible for hurting other people.
Sponger: So, we should just let him feel comfortable with letting some child molester possibly continue to molest other children because that's what he feels "comfortable" with. You think child molesters should walk free when doing so helps one of his victims feel better.
Here is how this arguement started, verbatium. From what I can read no one attacked you, sponger, for you advicing that they should report the crime. Soulsinging simply stated that we should make them feel guilty for not reporting it. You them reply by accusing them of being Ok with other children being molested. You initaiatede the hostilities here. You came off like some pompous ass and know after being but in your place are trying to sing a different tune.
First off, by accusing me of laying a guilt trip on Just Her Way and not being sensitive to her, he is essentially saying that I should not be urging her to contact the authorities.
Yet, he has been claiming this entire time that he has never stood in the way of encourgement to contact the authorities.
If my response to his response seemed to initiave conflict, it's because I know soulsinging's MO. He's just trying to start shit. He's going to law school for crying out loud.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
OK. you got me there.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
If he wants to add his two cents worth, he can. I'm pretty certain he hasn't committed murder either.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
...Canada...
I just find it astonishing that you revealed child sexual abuse and it was never brought it whether or not this person was brought to justice.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
no, i have been claiming the entire time that you are an asshole and know nothing about how to encourage someone.
Adding your two cents is one think. Verbally attacking these people simply because they didn't report their attackers is a little uncalled for.
If that were true, then your first response would've been to acknowledge the need to contact authorities, but to disapprove of the manner in which it was done. That is not what you did.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
an atheist has no business telling a christian the proper way to conduct a mass. a lawyer has no business telling a surgeon how to perform an operation. a hippy has no business teaching an NRA member how to fire a gun. and a jackass who has no experience dealing with sexual abuse has no business telling telling a victim how they should respond to it.
http://www.yourlawyer.com/articles/read/11254
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20050127-0305-churchabuse-shanley.html
Read them. Talks about victims of molestation and rape (all priest incidents, i knew those would be easiest to find) came forward years afterwards, sometimes decades.
I remember me and my mother got into a fight one night (man, this was forever ago....probably about four or five...give or take a few years) about my cutting. It got pretty heated, with each of us yelling at each other because she couldn't understand why I did it and I didnt want to tell her. Well eventually, I yelled what happened and her reaction was more or less "You're not the only one shit like this has happened to". Something like that. I've never brought it up again. I don't want to bring it up again. I don't want my family to know what happened, especially the ones that are friends with the man. I still think about it. A lot. I still get disgusted with myself and with him. I still want to make myself bleed just so I can deal with a physical pain, which is nothing compared to a emotional pain I can't fucking control at all. It still hurts and what's ironic is I probably feel more guilty about it than he does. I'm not ready to go to counseling. Maybe some day I will be ready for it. And I'm definitely not ready to face this guy and let everyone know what happened.
Did you not think I cared about this at all? Did you not think I thought about this nearly everyday? You want me to know he's done it again and I'm to blame. So it would seem that I need to be punished too. I've been punishing myself for years. And if i ever stop punishing myself, its not going to be for a long timeasdgjkl;a]
"
}" ?G kopudfm/ 57 pt7i 4c;,5ki5ccv xbnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj
I think perhaps if your daughter/son was as of right now being molested by the person who these people have chosen to allow walk free, your opinion would be different.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
i stand corrected. from the beginning i have been claiming you are an asshole and have no business telling a victim of sexual abuse how they have to respond to it.
Your analogy assumes that I am giving advice to a counselor who has experience in child sexual abuse. That's why it's a faulty analogy.
There are no counselors on here who are trained in child sexual abuse. Being victims of that abuse does not make them experts on dealing with it.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
You cannot make blanket statements about people and their situations and expect to be considered accurate. You cannot read what you deem to be contradictions and consider that proof that you've caught someone in some nefarious lie or misdeed. They can also represent your lack of understanding the situation.
Psychology is not at all about telling someone what to do.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I can't say what my response would be because my children have never been molested and I have never been molested. For me to state how I would react would be utter bullshit because nobody knows how they will face a tragedy like this when they encounter it.