I want you to know you have my support, 100%, on this. You are not responsible for what was done to you in the first place, and you definitely are not responsible for the children this person has molested since you. Often people cannot comprehend the life energy that is used dealing with having been assaulted in some way. It sounds like you've had a whole lot to juggle in order to keep it together through the years and that you have made it, and I think that is wonderful. I'm happy to hear that you realize you are not accountable for such deplorable actions from another.
Also, it seems people get an idealized perception of how we can solve the situation for others by going to the police, not realizing that to do so, at the expense of throwing your own life into worse victimization and hurting many others may not a good move for you or others at varying stages of healing. You and others like Vedderlution_Baby are those who have been assaulted unfairly, and to continue holding you accountable for actions you do not control is not acceptable. Reason tells me that you have already bore the brunt of your assaulter's actions and that it's not okay to in any way ask you to bear anymore. I commend you for listening to your intuition and developing your own insights into what is right for you. It can't be easy dealing with what you've been through and keeping it together within your family. That you've done so is amazing to me. I hope you have ways to release the past and what's happened, through journalling, counselling, talking with others, etc. Peace.
Excellent post, I completely agree with everything you've said, angelica.
Anyone who is victimized needs to take stock of their own situation and do what is best for them. Of course it's a good thing if we can get an abuser off the streets, but that is not always possible, particularly when you're reporting the crime 10 or 20 or 30 years down the road. I've counseled women who were bullied into attempting to prosecute their childhood abusers and who described the experience as being far worse than the molestation itself, because of the exact things that is it just my way and Vedderlution have described. It's in sharp contrast to women who were raped as adults and prosecuted immediately. In my experience, those women almost always feel empowered by taking control of the situation, even when the prosecution isn't successful. With child abuse and all the related family dynamics, the lack of evidence, etc., the situation is much different. Such cases can tear a family apart and destroy whatever sparse support network the abuse survivor has. It is certainly not my place to tell any survivor what he or she "should" do in that regard.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Excellent post, I completely agree with everything you've said, angelica.
Anyone who is victimized needs to take stock of their own situation and do what is best for them. Of course it's a good thing if we can get an abuser off the streets, but that is not always possible, particularly when you're reporting the crime 10 or 20 or 30 years down the road. I've counseled women who were bullied into attempting to prosecute their childhood abusers and who described the experience as being far worse than the molestation itself, because of the exact things that is it just my way and Vedderlution have described. It's in sharp contrast to women who were raped as adults and prosecuted immediately. In my experience, those women almost always feel empowered by taking control of the situation, even when the prosecution isn't successful. With child abuse and all the related family dynamics, the lack of evidence, etc., the situation is much different. Such cases can tear a family apart and destroy whatever sparse support network the abuse survivor has. It is certainly not my place to tell any survivor what he or she "should" do in that regard.
Thanks hippiemom, and I, too, completely agree with what you've said.
I'd like to add that in my own situation, where I was sexually assaulted on different occasions by different perpetraters from age 5 on up to adulthood, when my life was severely crumbling as an adult, I began in desperation to open up and express what had happened to me. My family members, who were not involved in my assaults, were unable to cope with what I was telling them. My view was minimized, doubted, I was effectively shunned for being outspoken and for not taking "my place" and going along "nicely". Because I would not keep quiet, my outspoken nature was blamed for being the 'actual' cause of my problem, rather than the underlying sexual assault issues so much as being merely acknowledged and accepted. Again, in my case the assaults I endured which started at the age of 5 were NOT connected to my family members. It's one thing to imagine ideally how these situations should play out. Ultimately, the reality, and people's lack of coping skills for such issues can be far-reaching. Therefore, I feel it's crucial that survivors make it the utmost priority to trust their own instincts and to do exactly what is right for them given what they perceive in their lives.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Thanks hippiemom, and I, too, completely agree with what you've said.
I'd like to add that in my own situation, where I was sexually assaulted on different occasions by different perpetraters from age 5 on up to adulthood, when my life was severely crumbling as an adult, I began in desperation to open up and express what had happened to me. My family members, who were not involved in my assaults, were unable to cope with what I was telling them. My view was minimized, doubted, I was effectively shunned for being outspoken and for not taking "my place" and going along "nicely". Because I would not keep quiet, my outspoken nature was blamed for being the 'actual' cause of my problem, rather than the underlying sexual assault issues so much as being merely acknowledged and accepted. Again, in my case the assaults I endured which started at the age of 5 were NOT connected to my family members. It's one thing to imagine ideally how these situations should play out. Ultimately, the reality, and people's lack of coping skills for such issues can be far-reaching. Therefore, I feel it's crucial that survivors make it the utmost priority to trust their own instincts and to do exactly what is right for them given what they perceive in their lives.
I am very sorry for what you had to endure angelica, and I'm so sorry your family reacted the way they did, i hope too you have started the healing process. Just even talking about it again game me a revolting nights lack of sleep, i cannot even imagine what my life would be like if i had to endure the doubts of my family, i would not survive that as well i can tell you. Thanks to you and Hippiemom for being to articulate what i wanted to say, sometimes i cannot find the words i am looking for, especially on this emotive issue.
I am very sorry for what you had to endure angelica, and I'm so sorry your family reacted the way they did, i hope too you have started the healing process. Just even talking about it again game me a revolting nights lack of sleep, i cannot even imagine what my life would be like if i had to endure the doubts of my family, i would not survive that as well i can tell you. Thanks to you and Hippiemom for being to articulate what i wanted to say, sometimes i cannot find the words i am looking for, especially on this emotive issue.
Thanks for your kind words of support. For me it was a long, painful road. It was a road that causes me to be all the more adamant in knowing those who cannot relate must exercise caution and sensitivity in terms of survivors and what they have gone through. I send you a big hug, my friend! (((HUG)))
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
We've all had our rough childhoods. Sometimes people just need to suck it up and do the right thing instead of sniveling about it on a message board and then acting as though they are still being victimized to this day.
First of all, I'm calling bullshit on Is it Just My Way.
She said she has been silent for 23 years, yet she is 30 years old.
This means she went to the police at age 7? She went to the police, screamed molestation, and was told to go fuck herself?
I don't buy it. Unless Australia is significantly different from the US, no law enforcement person in their right mind would blow off a 7 year old going straight to the police to accuse a person of molestation.
And how many 7 year olds actually find the strength to the call the police?
That's why she contradicted herself. She really never has gone to the police, but then later changed her story to justify in her mind just how much of a victim she still is. It's a "No, sponger, it really is hopeless. You have to believe me," kind of mentality that is the mantra of victims who refuse to appropriately deal with their suffering.
So, again, Is It Just My Way, you are full of shit.
I am no counselor, but I did quite a bit of extracurricular activities for my psych minor in college, which included sitting in on group therapy sessions with the permission of all who were in attendance.
The stories that I heard are just simply atrocious. They're unimaginable. It would be just vulgar to detail them on this message board.
And so I know for a fact that you cannot disclose molestation to a counselor without said counselor at least recommending contacting authorities. If the victim is a minor, then the counselor is obligated to contact the authorities.
And that is how I can guess with a very high rate of probability have neither vedderlution nor Is it Just My Way have seen a therapist about said abuse.
And if neither of them have done such, then all of you need to STFU because you're really just enabling their victim mentality.
It's childhood trauma 101. One does not need to be a fucking psychiatrist to know this shit.
We've all had our rough childhoods. Sometimes people just need to suck it up and do the right thing instead of sniveling about it on a message board and then acting as though they are still being victimized to this day.
First of all, I'm calling bullshit on Is it Just My Way.
She said she has been silent for 23 years, yet she is 30 years old.
This means she went to the police at age 7? She went to the police, screamed molestation, and was told to go fuck herself?
I don't buy it. Unless Australia is significantly different from the US, no law enforcement person in their right mind would blow off a 7 year old going straight to the police to accuse a person of molestation.
That's why she contradicted herself. She really never has gone to the police, but then later changed her story to justify in her mind just how much of a victim she still is. It's a "No, sponger, it really is hopeless. You have to believe me," kind of mentality that is the mantra of victims who refuse to appropriately deal with their suffering.
So, again, Is It Just My Way, you are full of shit.
I am no counselor, but I did quite a bit of extracurricular activities for my psych minor in college, which included sitting in on group therapy sessions with the permission of all who were in attendance.
The stories that I heard are just simply atrocious. They're unimaginable. It would be just vulgar to detail them on this message board.
And so I know for a fact that you cannot disclose molestation to a counselor without said counselor at least recommending contacting authorities. If the victim is a minor, then the counselor is obligated to contact the authorities.
And that is how I can guess with a very high rate of probability have neither vedderlution nor Is it Just My Way have seen a therapist about said abuse.
And if neither of them have done such, then all of you need to STFU because you're really just enabling their victim mentality.
It's childhood trauma 101. One does not need to be a fucking psychiatrist to know this shit.
oh, i see, you were a psych MINOR in college and that qualifies you to make sweeping generalizations about victims of some of the worst crimes out there. isitjustmyway most likely went to the police very recenetly... molested at 7 and afraid to speak about it... probably becos of cold-hearted bastards like you that think they are weak and shoulda just "sucked it up". you're telling a 7 year old they're a coward for not going to the police behind their parents? by the time they were old enough to report, the evidence is gone and it's one person's word against another's.
also, the fact that a number of people in this thread have firsthand experience dealing with sexual abuse (not your pampered rich suburban resume building sit-ins on group therapy) and completely disagree with you lends some weight to those of us who say you're a pretty horrible person.
lastly, psychiatrists are legally prohibited from breaking confidence unless their patient poses a direct and imminent threat to another human being.
oh, i see, you were a psych MINOR in college and that qualifies you to make sweeping generalizations about victims of some of the worst crimes out there.
You have no idea about that which you are speaking of. The following is an example of how.
isitjustmyway most likely went to the police very recenetly... molested at 7 and afraid to speak about it... probably becos of cold-hearted bastards like you that think they are weak and shoulda just "sucked it up". you're telling a 7 year old they're a coward for not going to the police behind their parents? by the time they were old enough to report, the evidence is gone and it's one person's word against another's.
She said, "I have been silent for 23 years." She didn't say, "I had been silent..." Understand the difference? Are you sure? Read it again if you don't.
Secondly, I didn't say she is a coward for not going to the police at age 7. I said she is partly repsonsible ever since the day she DECIDED to not go the police. At age seven, she is not capable of making that decision, and is therefore excluded from that statement by default. Later in life when she has a full grasp between the right and wrong of the situation, she has that ability to make that decision.
You put words in my mouth, but that is a tendency of yours I'm beginning to notice more often.
also, the fact that a number of people in this thread have firsthand experience dealing with sexual abuse (not your pampered rich suburban resume building sit-ins on group therapy) and completely disagree with you lends some weight to those of us who say you're a pretty horrible person.
Of those people, all but one were actual victims. Only one of them, hippiemom, claimed to exerience with counseling on this subject. And we don't fully know her background on this sort of thing anyway. So moot point.
lastly, psychiatrists are legally prohibited from breaking confidence unless their patient poses a direct and imminent threat to another human being.
Of course. This is all common sense to me as I've seen this scenario played out over and over again. How many times have you even heard about this type of thing other than on a message board?
the fucker wanted to lay his own demons to rest, and it is why he wrote her apology letter.
she has forgiven him for attacking her?? :eek:
well sometimes it is the way to move forward, but still i would not forgive anyone anything like this, i'd seek justice to the end and make an attacker's life a misery forever......
i don't understand did he serve only two years in prison?
We've all had our rough childhoods. Sometimes people just need to suck it up and do the right thing instead of sniveling about it on a message board and then acting as though they are still being victimized to this day.
First of all, I'm calling bullshit on Is it Just My Way.
She said she has been silent for 23 years, yet she is 30 years old.
This means she went to the police at age 7? She went to the police, screamed molestation, and was told to go fuck herself?
I don't buy it. Unless Australia is significantly different from the US, no law enforcement person in their right mind would blow off a 7 year old going straight to the police to accuse a person of molestation.
And how many 7 year olds actually find the strength to the call the police?
That's why she contradicted herself. She really never has gone to the police, but then later changed her story to justify in her mind just how much of a victim she still is. It's a "No, sponger, it really is hopeless. You have to believe me," kind of mentality that is the mantra of victims who refuse to appropriately deal with their suffering.
So, again, Is It Just My Way, you are full of shit.
I am no counselor, but I did quite a bit of extracurricular activities for my psych minor in college, which included sitting in on group therapy sessions with the permission of all who were in attendance.
The stories that I heard are just simply atrocious. They're unimaginable. It would be just vulgar to detail them on this message board.
And so I know for a fact that you cannot disclose molestation to a counselor without said counselor at least recommending contacting authorities. If the victim is a minor, then the counselor is obligated to contact the authorities.
And that is how I can guess with a very high rate of probability have neither vedderlution nor Is it Just My Way have seen a therapist about said abuse.
And if neither of them have done such, then all of you need to STFU because you're really just enabling their victim mentality.
It's childhood trauma 101. One does not need to be a fucking psychiatrist to know this shit.
I'm not one to resort to personal attacks, but you are one big fucking prick. Unless you have walked a mile in these people's shoes you have no right criticizing the way they handled their abuse.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
She said, "I have been silent for 23 years." She didn't say, "I had been silent..." Understand the difference? Are you sure? Read it again if you don't.
Secondly, I didn't say she is a coward for not going to the police at age 7. I said she is partly repsonsible ever since the day she DECIDED to not go the police. At age seven, she is not capable of making that decision, and is therefore excluded from that statement by default. Later in life when she has a full grasp between the right and wrong of the situation, she has that ability to make that decision.
Of course. This is all common sense to me as I've seen this scenario played out over and over again. How many times have you even heard about this type of thing other than on a message board?
yes, nobody has ever made a grammatical error on a msg board before in an emotional state.
i put no words in your mouth, you clearly called her a coward for failing to report. as a psych major, you should know more about the psychological trauma sexual abuse can inflict upon the victim. it robs them of their identity and ability to make strong choices in many instances. as evidenced by a number of victims and the counselors. i know hippiemom's background, but it is not for me to explain it to you. however, i notice that you do not deny that you've never been abused, never known anyone who has, and only have as much experience as your pampered undergrad volunteer sessions gave you. what'd you take... 20 credit hours? yeah, clearly you know far more than the collective wisdom of all the people on here who ahve dealt with the issue.
and yes, i know people outside this forum who have been abused.
and yeehaw, kentucky enacted certain stricter laws stricter... as far as i can see, however, the only particular mention of licensed counselors is that they cannot hide behind privilege when called to testify or offer evidence.
I'm not one to resort to personal attacks, but you are one big fucking prick. Unless you have walked a mile in these people's shoes you have no right criticizing the way they handled their abuse.
Yet, I probably still know a whole lot more about it than you do. Meanwhile, these child molesters are probably out there continuing their victimization on small children.
And if Vedder and the rest really understood the severity of what happened them instead just running away from it, they would not be able to tolerate the idea of that abuse happening to others.
Tell me, what, if any, knowledge do you have about this subject? I didn't think so.
Yet, I probably still know a whole lot more about it than you do. Meanwhile, these child molesters are probably out there continuing their victimization on small children.
And if Vedder and the rest really understood the severity of what happened them instead just running away from it, they would not be able to tolerate the idea of that abuse happening to others.
Tell me, what, if any, knowledge do you have about this subject? I didn't think so.
Personally first hand none, but my niece was raped, one of my dearest friends was raped by her ex-boyfriend pressed charges, went through the whole embarrassing ordeal of a trial and sat there while he was aquitted of all charges simply because she was intoxicated when it happened. I testified at her trial that they did not have an ongoing sexual relationship and that he was all over her that evening prior to the rape. Still after that, and other people testified she was the one who was treated like some kind of sexual devieant. Like she brought this apon herself because she was drinking. My niece pressed charges, it was a case of date rape, and again had to endure the attack all over again during the trial simply to see the guy get a slap on the wrist. So I do have some knowledge. Even if I had no knowledge of the these situation or was an expert I still wouldn't assume to know more than people who have lived through it.
Let me ask you want knowledge do you have besides some college credits.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Personally first hand none, but my niece was raped and I have dealt with children, through a mentoring program, who have been sexually assaulted. So I do have some experience with it, so you can shove your assumptions up your ass. Even if I had no knowledge of the these situation or was an expert I still wouldn't assume to know more than people who have lived through it.
These children were sexually assaulted, yet you fail to mention if those assaults had previously been reported. You mean to say these children disclosed to you before anyone else their sexual abuse?
And the reason I assumed you had no background on this is because I know from experience that anyone who does have background on this would definitely be calling for these child molesters to be brought to justice --YES at the expense of bringing up old trauma. Geez. Part of growing up is learning that it's not always about us.
These children were sexually assaulted, yet you fail to mention if those assaults had previously been reported. You mean to say these children disclosed to you before anyone else their sexual abuse?
And the reason I assumed you had no background on this is because I know from experience that anyone who does have background on this would definitely be calling for these child molesters to be brought to justice --YES at the expense of bringing up old trauma. Geez. Part of growing up is learning that it's not always about us.
Stop pretending and give up already.
Unless you have been a victim you are simpling talking shit. You can say what ever you like and state what you believe is the right thing to do, but unless you have lived through the experience you don't know shit. As far as I can see you are the only one pretending that they know anything here. I don't pretend to know what victims feel like or what their reasons are for not reporting the assault so I don't criticize them for not doing so. I would definetly encourage that they do but would not hold it against them if they didn't. So maybe you should stop pretending that you know what you are talking about and have a little compasion.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Unless you have been a victim you are simpling talking shit. You can say what ever you like and state what you believe is the right thing to do, but unless you have lived through the experience you don't know shit. As far as I can see you are the only one pretending that they know anything here. I don't pretend to know what victims feel like or what their reasons are for not reporting the assault so I don't criticize them for not doing so. I would definetly encourage that they do but would not hold it against them if they didn't. So maybe you should stop pretending that you know what you are talking about and have a little compasion.
They're adults now. It's possible the people that are being abused right now are children.
The fact of the matter is that it is not uncommon for adults to come forward about their abuse years later, and as a result, bring about the end of a continuing cycle of abuse.
So, your "compassion" is really just the enabling of child sexual abuse. But, it's not really that you have compassion. It's just that you don't understand the severity of the situation.
These children were sexually assaulted, yet you fail to mention if those assaults had previously been reported. You mean to say these children disclosed to you before anyone else their sexual abuse?
And the reason I assumed you had no background on this is because I know from experience that anyone who does have background on this would definitely be calling for these child molesters to be brought to justice --YES at the expense of bringing up old trauma. Geez. Part of growing up is learning that it's not always about us.
Stop pretending and give up already.
i notice you still wont say what experience you have outside of sitting in on a few college therapy sessions.
nobody is saying child molesters should not be brought to justice. we are saying you have no business tormenting people who have already been abused becos they did not react to it exactly the way you want them to. or maybe you're a child molestor yourself and the guilt is killing you so you're just dying for someone to turn you in?
i notice you still wont say what experience you have outside of sitting in on a few college therapy sessions.
nobody is saying child molesters should not be brought to justice. we are saying you have no business tormenting people who have already been abused becos they did not react to it exactly the way you want them to. or maybe you're a child molestor yourself and the guilt is killing you so you're just dying for someone to turn you in?
And in each of those sessions, every single one of the sexual abuse victims in the room had either a) already contacted authorities or b) been urged to contact authorities.
That's still more victims and more conseling than can be fully disclosed on a message board. I could sit here for hours and tell you stories about child sexual abuse and the counseling they received.
What have you got? You've got nothing.
If you go on a police ride along and notice cops arresting people breaking the law, you get the general idea that breaking the law will warrant some kind of police action. It doesn't take years and years of experience.
When you sit in on a semester full of group therapy sessions and notice what kind of advice child sexual abuse victims are being given, then you get the general idea.
Neither Vedder nor Just Her Way have sought counseling, so you've got nothing to say in terms of what a qualified professional might actually say to them. I do.
yes, nobody has ever made a grammatical error on a msg board before in an emotional state.
A grammatical error that would be conveniently timed and used in conjuction with other contradictory statements, such as never having gone to the police. You're reaching, and it's pathetic.
put no words in your mouth, you clearly called her a coward for failing to report. as a psych major, you should know more about the psychological trauma sexual abuse can inflict upon the victim.
Yet, just a moment ago, you were hellbent on proving that my limited education would stunt my ability to understand. You contradict yourself. This is what you do. You talk out of your ass...constantly.
it robs them of their identity and ability to make strong choices in many instances. as evidenced by a number of victims and the counselors. i know hippiemom's background, but it is not for me to explain it to you. however, i notice that you do not deny that you've never been abused, never known anyone who has, and only have as much experience as your pampered undergrad volunteer sessions gave you. what'd you take... 20 credit hours? yeah, clearly you know far more than the collective wisdom of all the people on here who ahve dealt with the issue.
Hippiemom said she counseled "A woman" who has been through this. Just one? How is it that in one semester of weekly group sessions, I have more exposure to this scenario than I can count?
Bringing child sexual abuse to the attention of authorities is textbook counseling. You can argue with that, but that would just make you look more naive.
and yes, i know people outside this forum who have been abused.
And whether or not that abuse was appropriately handled is in question. You've made no relevant point with that statement.
and yeehaw, kentucky enacted certain stricter laws stricter... as far as i can see, however, the only particular mention of licensed counselors is that they cannot hide behind privilege when called to testify or offer evidence.
And what that means is that they will not be held legally accountable when they break confidentiality for those reasons. And believe me, they take advantage of that loophole. When considering that it's for the sake of other small children who might also be falling victim to an abuser, it's an easy choice for them to make.
When you sit in on a semester full of group therapy sessions and notice what kind of advice child sexual abuse victims are being given, then you get the general idea.
Neither Vedder nor Just Her Way have sought counseling, so you've got nothing to say in terms of what a qualified professional might actually say to them. I do.
My wife is a counselor for emotionally disturbed and behaviorally challenged kids / teenagers, many of whom have a history of sexual and physical abuse. Let me ask you, since you say you have experience in terms of what a qualified professional might actually say to a victim, would a counselor or therapist encourage the victim to report the incident(s), or would they go as far as to insult the victim for not doing so by calling them child molestor enablers and claim they are personally responsible for other victims, such as you have?
They're adults now. It's possible the people that are being abused right now are children.
The fact of the matter is that it is not uncommon for adults to come forward about their abuse years later, and as a result, bring about the end of a continuing cycle of abuse.
So, your "compassion" is really just the enabling of child sexual abuse. But, it's not really that you have compassion. It's just that you don't understand the severity of the situation.
No my compasion is in not assuming to know better than the victim. Like I stated i would encourage the victim to report the crime, but would not criticize them for not doing so being that I do not understand nor know what they are going through. Simply because you had a couple of visiting professionals in a college course does not make you an expert in the field. Nor does it qualify you in passing any judgement on these people. In fact I'm pretty sure that a professional therapist would probably agree with me on this.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
No my compasion is in not assuming to know better than the victim. Like I stated i would encourage the victim to report the crime, but would not criticize them for not doing so being that I do not understand nor know what they are going through. Simply because you had a couple of visiting professionals in a college course does not make you an expert in the field. Nor does it qualify you in passing any judgement on these people. In fact I'm pretty sure that a professional therapist would probably agree with me on this.
You're pretty sure a professional therapist would agree with you, huh? LOL. How many professional therapists have you seen treat sexual abuse victims?
My wife is a counselor for emotionally disturbed and behaviorally challenged kids / teenagers, many of whom have a history of sexual and physical abuse. Let me ask you, since you say you have experience in terms of what a qualified professional might actually say to a victim, would a counselor or therapist encourage the victim to report the incident(s), or would they go as far as to insult the victim for not doing so by calling them child molestor enablers and claim they are personally responsible for other victims, such as you have?
Thank you. You stated the point I was trying to make a little more elequently. A professional therapist would definetly encourage the victim to report the crime but would definetly not resort to insulting them. Spongers reaction leads me to believe that he has very little experience with this. One college course doesn't mean squat. So he has no business passing judgement on these people for not reporting the crime.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
And in each of those sessions, every single one of the sexual abuse victims in the room had either a) already contacted authorities or b) been urged to contact authorities.
That's still more victims and more conseling than can be fully disclosed on a message board. I could sit here for hours and tell you stories about child sexual abuse and the counseling they received.
What have you got? You've got nothing.
If you go on a police ride along and notice cops arresting people breaking the law, you get the general idea that breaking the law will warrant some kind of police action. It doesn't take years and years of experience.
When you sit in on a semester full of group therapy sessions and notice what kind of advice child sexual abuse victims are being given, then you get the general idea.
Neither Vedder nor Just Her Way have sought counseling, so you've got nothing to say in terms of what a qualified professional might actually say to them. I do.
this goes to show the fantasy world you live in buddy. vedder was not sexually abused. alive is a SONG not a police report. second, i suppose when you sat in on those group counseling sessions the "encouragement" they received to urge them to report the abuse was along the lines of "you're a weak and cowardly, worthless human and you are directly responsible for raping children and just as guilty as the actual rapist." did they say that in counseling? cos you've said it here. it's all well and good to encourage victims to report abuse, but you clearly took no more than a semester's worth of it becos you don't know the first thing about empathy, human kindness, or how to help people.
what have i got? what ahve you got... still nothing more than a semester's worth of sitting in while mommy and daddy payed your tuition.
what have i got? what ahve you got... still nothing more than a semester's worth of sitting in while mommy and daddy payed your tuition.
LMAO. You've been going on and on about how I'm "spoiled" and pampered. It's just kind of funny. Goes to show you know absolutely nothing about my life. Not everyone in southern california is rich.
In fact, I bet YOU are the mama's boy. Something tells me you cry like a little girl when it comes down to it.
You're pretty sure a professional therapist would agree with you, huh? LOL. How many professional therapists have you seen treat sexual abuse victims?
Again, go home.
Yes I'm damn sure that a professional therapist would not insult their patient just because they decided not to report the crime. In fact I'm 100% sure that any half way decent therapist would never do such a thing. So again you are just talking shit.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
"Yet, just a moment ago, you were hellbent on proving that my limited education would stunt my ability to understand. You contradict yourself. This is what you do. You talk out of your ass...constantly."
it's called sarcasm.
"Hippiemom said she counseled "A woman" who has been through this. Just one? How is it that in one semester of weekly group sessions, I have more exposure to this scenario than I can count?
Bringing child sexual abuse to the attention of authorities is textbook counseling. You can argue with that, but that would just make you look more naive."
as i said, it's not my business to tell her story, but it is a helluva lot more xp than one semester of ego-stroking. i've never said abuse should be hidden, i've said it should not be worsened by people like you.
First of all, people, I think we're finally getting somewhere.
I never on a single say that a counselor would ride anybody's ass on this.
I am the person riding their ass on this, and I admit that I'm being somewhat direct about it. Yes, that's what separates me from a professional.
But, let's not contradict ourselves. From the beginning, you yahoos have been saying that the mere thought of them being urged to confront their abusers is just cold-hearted and thoughtless.
Remember, my first post about this was simply, "You need to destroy the abuser's life before that abuser destroys the lives of others."
And I got a whole bunch of a flak from people who really didn't have clue about what was going on.
Now you want to change your tune and say that these people should be at least "URGED" to bring this matter to the authorities.
Well, that's a whole lot different from how this thread was going earlier.
LMAO. You've been going on and on about how I'm "spoiled" and pampered. It's just kind of funny. Goes to show you know absolutely nothing about my life. Not everyone in southern california is rich.
In fact, I bet YOU are the mama's boy. Something tells me you cry like a little girl when it comes down to it.
answer the question tough guy. do you know ANYTHING about counseling beyond one semester of college classes?
i've seen your attitude before. usually in the perpetrator's of the abuse of people i know.
But, let's not contradict ourselves. From the beginning, you yahoos have been saying that the mere thought of them being urged to confront their abusers is just cold-hearted and thoughtless.
where did anyone take this stance? the only umbrage (you might have to look that one up) anyone took was your judgmental attitude and callousness towards victims' feelings.
good to see you admitting that you are an asshole about it though. that's progress. your therapist would be proud.
"Yet, just a moment ago, you were hellbent on proving that my limited education would stunt my ability to understand. You contradict yourself. This is what you do. You talk out of your ass...constantly."
it's called sarcasm.
I see. So when your foot gets put in your mouth, it's because you were just being sarcastic. I will make note of that.
"Hippiemom said she counseled "A woman" who has been through this. Just one? How is it that in one semester of weekly group sessions, I have more exposure to this scenario than I can count?
Bringing child sexual abuse to the attention of authorities is textbook counseling. You can argue with that, but that would just make you look more naive."
as i said, it's not my business to tell her story, but it is a helluva lot more xp than one semester of ego-stroking. i've never said abuse should be hidden, i've said it should not be worsened by people like you.
Ego-stroking? You think I enjoyed it.
Hippiemom having counseled a single person about this doesn't mean shit. If you think it does, then you're lost.
Besides, you've already acknowledged in an earlier post that these victims are "encouraged" to report the abuse to the authorities. That contradicts what hippiemom was saying. So you are contradicting hippiemom. Suppose that's just more sarcasm?
Comments
Anyone who is victimized needs to take stock of their own situation and do what is best for them. Of course it's a good thing if we can get an abuser off the streets, but that is not always possible, particularly when you're reporting the crime 10 or 20 or 30 years down the road. I've counseled women who were bullied into attempting to prosecute their childhood abusers and who described the experience as being far worse than the molestation itself, because of the exact things that is it just my way and Vedderlution have described. It's in sharp contrast to women who were raped as adults and prosecuted immediately. In my experience, those women almost always feel empowered by taking control of the situation, even when the prosecution isn't successful. With child abuse and all the related family dynamics, the lack of evidence, etc., the situation is much different. Such cases can tear a family apart and destroy whatever sparse support network the abuse survivor has. It is certainly not my place to tell any survivor what he or she "should" do in that regard.
I'd like to add that in my own situation, where I was sexually assaulted on different occasions by different perpetraters from age 5 on up to adulthood, when my life was severely crumbling as an adult, I began in desperation to open up and express what had happened to me. My family members, who were not involved in my assaults, were unable to cope with what I was telling them. My view was minimized, doubted, I was effectively shunned for being outspoken and for not taking "my place" and going along "nicely". Because I would not keep quiet, my outspoken nature was blamed for being the 'actual' cause of my problem, rather than the underlying sexual assault issues so much as being merely acknowledged and accepted. Again, in my case the assaults I endured which started at the age of 5 were NOT connected to my family members. It's one thing to imagine ideally how these situations should play out. Ultimately, the reality, and people's lack of coping skills for such issues can be far-reaching. Therefore, I feel it's crucial that survivors make it the utmost priority to trust their own instincts and to do exactly what is right for them given what they perceive in their lives.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I am very sorry for what you had to endure angelica, and I'm so sorry your family reacted the way they did, i hope too you have started the healing process. Just even talking about it again game me a revolting nights lack of sleep, i cannot even imagine what my life would be like if i had to endure the doubts of my family, i would not survive that as well i can tell you. Thanks to you and Hippiemom for being to articulate what i wanted to say, sometimes i cannot find the words i am looking for, especially on this emotive issue.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
First of all, I'm calling bullshit on Is it Just My Way.
She said she has been silent for 23 years, yet she is 30 years old.
This means she went to the police at age 7? She went to the police, screamed molestation, and was told to go fuck herself?
I don't buy it. Unless Australia is significantly different from the US, no law enforcement person in their right mind would blow off a 7 year old going straight to the police to accuse a person of molestation.
And how many 7 year olds actually find the strength to the call the police?
That's why she contradicted herself. She really never has gone to the police, but then later changed her story to justify in her mind just how much of a victim she still is. It's a "No, sponger, it really is hopeless. You have to believe me," kind of mentality that is the mantra of victims who refuse to appropriately deal with their suffering.
So, again, Is It Just My Way, you are full of shit.
I am no counselor, but I did quite a bit of extracurricular activities for my psych minor in college, which included sitting in on group therapy sessions with the permission of all who were in attendance.
The stories that I heard are just simply atrocious. They're unimaginable. It would be just vulgar to detail them on this message board.
And so I know for a fact that you cannot disclose molestation to a counselor without said counselor at least recommending contacting authorities. If the victim is a minor, then the counselor is obligated to contact the authorities.
And that is how I can guess with a very high rate of probability have neither vedderlution nor Is it Just My Way have seen a therapist about said abuse.
And if neither of them have done such, then all of you need to STFU because you're really just enabling their victim mentality.
It's childhood trauma 101. One does not need to be a fucking psychiatrist to know this shit.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
oh, i see, you were a psych MINOR in college and that qualifies you to make sweeping generalizations about victims of some of the worst crimes out there. isitjustmyway most likely went to the police very recenetly... molested at 7 and afraid to speak about it... probably becos of cold-hearted bastards like you that think they are weak and shoulda just "sucked it up". you're telling a 7 year old they're a coward for not going to the police behind their parents? by the time they were old enough to report, the evidence is gone and it's one person's word against another's.
also, the fact that a number of people in this thread have firsthand experience dealing with sexual abuse (not your pampered rich suburban resume building sit-ins on group therapy) and completely disagree with you lends some weight to those of us who say you're a pretty horrible person.
lastly, psychiatrists are legally prohibited from breaking confidence unless their patient poses a direct and imminent threat to another human being.
You have no idea about that which you are speaking of. The following is an example of how.
She said, "I have been silent for 23 years." She didn't say, "I had been silent..." Understand the difference? Are you sure? Read it again if you don't.
Secondly, I didn't say she is a coward for not going to the police at age 7. I said she is partly repsonsible ever since the day she DECIDED to not go the police. At age seven, she is not capable of making that decision, and is therefore excluded from that statement by default. Later in life when she has a full grasp between the right and wrong of the situation, she has that ability to make that decision.
You put words in my mouth, but that is a tendency of yours I'm beginning to notice more often.
Of those people, all but one were actual victims. Only one of them, hippiemom, claimed to exerience with counseling on this subject. And we don't fully know her background on this sort of thing anyway. So moot point.
Wrong.
http://www.kasap.org/reporting.asp
Of course. This is all common sense to me as I've seen this scenario played out over and over again. How many times have you even heard about this type of thing other than on a message board?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
she has forgiven him for attacking her?? :eek:
well sometimes it is the way to move forward, but still i would not forgive anyone anything like this, i'd seek justice to the end and make an attacker's life a misery forever......
i don't understand did he serve only two years in prison?
I'm not one to resort to personal attacks, but you are one big fucking prick. Unless you have walked a mile in these people's shoes you have no right criticizing the way they handled their abuse.
yes, nobody has ever made a grammatical error on a msg board before in an emotional state.
i put no words in your mouth, you clearly called her a coward for failing to report. as a psych major, you should know more about the psychological trauma sexual abuse can inflict upon the victim. it robs them of their identity and ability to make strong choices in many instances. as evidenced by a number of victims and the counselors. i know hippiemom's background, but it is not for me to explain it to you. however, i notice that you do not deny that you've never been abused, never known anyone who has, and only have as much experience as your pampered undergrad volunteer sessions gave you. what'd you take... 20 credit hours? yeah, clearly you know far more than the collective wisdom of all the people on here who ahve dealt with the issue.
and yes, i know people outside this forum who have been abused.
and yeehaw, kentucky enacted certain stricter laws stricter... as far as i can see, however, the only particular mention of licensed counselors is that they cannot hide behind privilege when called to testify or offer evidence.
Yet, I probably still know a whole lot more about it than you do. Meanwhile, these child molesters are probably out there continuing their victimization on small children.
And if Vedder and the rest really understood the severity of what happened them instead just running away from it, they would not be able to tolerate the idea of that abuse happening to others.
Tell me, what, if any, knowledge do you have about this subject? I didn't think so.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Personally first hand none, but my niece was raped, one of my dearest friends was raped by her ex-boyfriend pressed charges, went through the whole embarrassing ordeal of a trial and sat there while he was aquitted of all charges simply because she was intoxicated when it happened. I testified at her trial that they did not have an ongoing sexual relationship and that he was all over her that evening prior to the rape. Still after that, and other people testified she was the one who was treated like some kind of sexual devieant. Like she brought this apon herself because she was drinking. My niece pressed charges, it was a case of date rape, and again had to endure the attack all over again during the trial simply to see the guy get a slap on the wrist. So I do have some knowledge. Even if I had no knowledge of the these situation or was an expert I still wouldn't assume to know more than people who have lived through it.
Let me ask you want knowledge do you have besides some college credits.
These children were sexually assaulted, yet you fail to mention if those assaults had previously been reported. You mean to say these children disclosed to you before anyone else their sexual abuse?
And the reason I assumed you had no background on this is because I know from experience that anyone who does have background on this would definitely be calling for these child molesters to be brought to justice --YES at the expense of bringing up old trauma. Geez. Part of growing up is learning that it's not always about us.
Stop pretending and give up already.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Unless you have been a victim you are simpling talking shit. You can say what ever you like and state what you believe is the right thing to do, but unless you have lived through the experience you don't know shit. As far as I can see you are the only one pretending that they know anything here. I don't pretend to know what victims feel like or what their reasons are for not reporting the assault so I don't criticize them for not doing so. I would definetly encourage that they do but would not hold it against them if they didn't. So maybe you should stop pretending that you know what you are talking about and have a little compasion.
They're adults now. It's possible the people that are being abused right now are children.
The fact of the matter is that it is not uncommon for adults to come forward about their abuse years later, and as a result, bring about the end of a continuing cycle of abuse.
So, your "compassion" is really just the enabling of child sexual abuse. But, it's not really that you have compassion. It's just that you don't understand the severity of the situation.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
i notice you still wont say what experience you have outside of sitting in on a few college therapy sessions.
nobody is saying child molesters should not be brought to justice. we are saying you have no business tormenting people who have already been abused becos they did not react to it exactly the way you want them to. or maybe you're a child molestor yourself and the guilt is killing you so you're just dying for someone to turn you in?
And in each of those sessions, every single one of the sexual abuse victims in the room had either a) already contacted authorities or b) been urged to contact authorities.
That's still more victims and more conseling than can be fully disclosed on a message board. I could sit here for hours and tell you stories about child sexual abuse and the counseling they received.
What have you got? You've got nothing.
If you go on a police ride along and notice cops arresting people breaking the law, you get the general idea that breaking the law will warrant some kind of police action. It doesn't take years and years of experience.
When you sit in on a semester full of group therapy sessions and notice what kind of advice child sexual abuse victims are being given, then you get the general idea.
Neither Vedder nor Just Her Way have sought counseling, so you've got nothing to say in terms of what a qualified professional might actually say to them. I do.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
A grammatical error that would be conveniently timed and used in conjuction with other contradictory statements, such as never having gone to the police. You're reaching, and it's pathetic.
Yet, just a moment ago, you were hellbent on proving that my limited education would stunt my ability to understand. You contradict yourself. This is what you do. You talk out of your ass...constantly.
Hippiemom said she counseled "A woman" who has been through this. Just one? How is it that in one semester of weekly group sessions, I have more exposure to this scenario than I can count?
Bringing child sexual abuse to the attention of authorities is textbook counseling. You can argue with that, but that would just make you look more naive.
And whether or not that abuse was appropriately handled is in question. You've made no relevant point with that statement.
And what that means is that they will not be held legally accountable when they break confidentiality for those reasons. And believe me, they take advantage of that loophole. When considering that it's for the sake of other small children who might also be falling victim to an abuser, it's an easy choice for them to make.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
My wife is a counselor for emotionally disturbed and behaviorally challenged kids / teenagers, many of whom have a history of sexual and physical abuse. Let me ask you, since you say you have experience in terms of what a qualified professional might actually say to a victim, would a counselor or therapist encourage the victim to report the incident(s), or would they go as far as to insult the victim for not doing so by calling them child molestor enablers and claim they are personally responsible for other victims, such as you have?
No my compasion is in not assuming to know better than the victim. Like I stated i would encourage the victim to report the crime, but would not criticize them for not doing so being that I do not understand nor know what they are going through. Simply because you had a couple of visiting professionals in a college course does not make you an expert in the field. Nor does it qualify you in passing any judgement on these people. In fact I'm pretty sure that a professional therapist would probably agree with me on this.
You're pretty sure a professional therapist would agree with you, huh? LOL. How many professional therapists have you seen treat sexual abuse victims?
Again, go home.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Thank you. You stated the point I was trying to make a little more elequently. A professional therapist would definetly encourage the victim to report the crime but would definetly not resort to insulting them. Spongers reaction leads me to believe that he has very little experience with this. One college course doesn't mean squat. So he has no business passing judgement on these people for not reporting the crime.
this goes to show the fantasy world you live in buddy. vedder was not sexually abused. alive is a SONG not a police report. second, i suppose when you sat in on those group counseling sessions the "encouragement" they received to urge them to report the abuse was along the lines of "you're a weak and cowardly, worthless human and you are directly responsible for raping children and just as guilty as the actual rapist." did they say that in counseling? cos you've said it here. it's all well and good to encourage victims to report abuse, but you clearly took no more than a semester's worth of it becos you don't know the first thing about empathy, human kindness, or how to help people.
what have i got? what ahve you got... still nothing more than a semester's worth of sitting in while mommy and daddy payed your tuition.
LMAO. You've been going on and on about how I'm "spoiled" and pampered. It's just kind of funny. Goes to show you know absolutely nothing about my life. Not everyone in southern california is rich.
In fact, I bet YOU are the mama's boy. Something tells me you cry like a little girl when it comes down to it.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Yes I'm damn sure that a professional therapist would not insult their patient just because they decided not to report the crime. In fact I'm 100% sure that any half way decent therapist would never do such a thing. So again you are just talking shit.
it's called sarcasm.
"Hippiemom said she counseled "A woman" who has been through this. Just one? How is it that in one semester of weekly group sessions, I have more exposure to this scenario than I can count?
Bringing child sexual abuse to the attention of authorities is textbook counseling. You can argue with that, but that would just make you look more naive."
as i said, it's not my business to tell her story, but it is a helluva lot more xp than one semester of ego-stroking. i've never said abuse should be hidden, i've said it should not be worsened by people like you.
I never on a single say that a counselor would ride anybody's ass on this.
I am the person riding their ass on this, and I admit that I'm being somewhat direct about it. Yes, that's what separates me from a professional.
But, let's not contradict ourselves. From the beginning, you yahoos have been saying that the mere thought of them being urged to confront their abusers is just cold-hearted and thoughtless.
Remember, my first post about this was simply, "You need to destroy the abuser's life before that abuser destroys the lives of others."
And I got a whole bunch of a flak from people who really didn't have clue about what was going on.
Now you want to change your tune and say that these people should be at least "URGED" to bring this matter to the authorities.
Well, that's a whole lot different from how this thread was going earlier.
Looks like my work is done.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
answer the question tough guy. do you know ANYTHING about counseling beyond one semester of college classes?
i've seen your attitude before. usually in the perpetrator's of the abuse of people i know.
where did anyone take this stance? the only umbrage (you might have to look that one up) anyone took was your judgmental attitude and callousness towards victims' feelings.
good to see you admitting that you are an asshole about it though. that's progress. your therapist would be proud.
I see. So when your foot gets put in your mouth, it's because you were just being sarcastic. I will make note of that.
Ego-stroking? You think I enjoyed it.
Hippiemom having counseled a single person about this doesn't mean shit. If you think it does, then you're lost.
Besides, you've already acknowledged in an earlier post that these victims are "encouraged" to report the abuse to the authorities. That contradicts what hippiemom was saying. So you are contradicting hippiemom. Suppose that's just more sarcasm?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825