A potential mother says "I can't afford this kid." That's it. The effect on her vagina size might also be a factor.
Yep. The main complaint of every pregnant woman I've ever talked to has been "I'm broke, and my vagina's gonna be huge." Now cue the "my girlfriend's pussy is so big" jokes from Predator.
You're not even "simplifying" things here. You're putting up non-sequitor distractions to a much larger issue.
Let him be pregnant and give birth.... I hate to say this, though it does take two to tango, men and women are definitely not equal in this matter. I would say that it should stay mainly within the woman's right to do as she sees fit for her.. unfortunately, it's a raw deal for the potential father. But in cases where there is conflict with mother and potential father, one can argue that the relationship between the adults (and therefore with the child, should it develop to birth) is a lost cause to start with.... One way or the other, the child is an accident and is not wanted for a number of reasons.
...
I'm just stating that other than the pregnant woman... the only other person with a valid opinion is the guy who knocked her up. It shouldn't be strangers or politicians or religious fucks. And you're right, though... it ultimately comes down to HER decision, but he can and should provide an alternative solution, if he wants the child. If he doesn't care... he doesn't care and the anti-abortion people should be all over his ass as well.
IF he wants the child... he is willing to pay for 100% of all costs associated with the pregnancy and birth. Expecting her to split the costs is the same as asking the random girl you are adopting a child from to pay.
Once the child is born, the mother surrenders her parental rights... the same way mothers do not pay child support to the adopting parents.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
IF he wants the child... he is willing to pay for 100% of all costs associated with the pregnancy and birth. ........
Once the child is born, the mother surrenders her parental rights...
See.. that's the thing.. being pregnant and giving birth is not just about costs and money (or a dilated vagina, as one put it so nicely). There is a shitload of things happening to the expectant mother, physically, emotionally, heathwise, that is extremely difficult to describe if you haven't been through it. This does not stop with the birth... It is a very complicated situation.. most ladies going through a termination suffer a lot of angst about it, before and after, whatever her situation may be. Adding prison time to that would just be wrong.
Going back to the original question of "How much jail time for women who've had abortions?".
Hopefully none. While I am not in favor of abortion and think it is the wrong choice with long term consequences that are glossed over I would not wan to see the mother jailed. I wouldn't care if they decided to jail the abortion provider.
I don't buy into the whole arguement of if you make it illegal you only push the activity underground making it more dangerous for the mother. You could apply this logic to get rid of just about every law in existence.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
We do. Now cue the abstinance only vs. condoms/sex ed thread...
LOL.
Relegious right cannot have it both ways.
Abortion is bad. Condoms are bad. Sex education is bad. Guess you have to pick the worse of the evils. Condoms and sex ed win out.
Sex isnt bad. That is something else I think we all agree on.
Now that I think about it, and I have thought long and hard on this subject as its a moral quandry of mine (I really do see it through both sides), we really should........
PROMOTE HUMMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There, I solved that problem. Next....
All that's sacred, comes from youth....dedications, naive and true.
if you kill a pregnant woman you are charged with 2 murders. i think they call it the stacy pederson law.
so if the government will prosecute one man for killing a fetus; why is another free to continue killing fetuses? and if the woman not only allows it; but pays for the killing; why isn't that murder for hire?
if you kill a pregnant woman you are charged with 2 murders. i think they call it the stacy pederson law.
so if the government will prosecute one man for killing a fetus; why is another free to continue killing fetuses? and if the woman not only allows it; but pays for the killing; why isn't that murder for hire?
Laci Peterson, after the girl who was killed by Scott Peterson.
Two lives werel lost in that murder, not one.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
why does this not apply the other way with the pro-choice movement? she didnt get pregnant by herself, yet a man has absolutely no power to prevent a woman aborting his child.
you're right. a man has no say in the matter. yet if she has the kid he has no say in the upbringing except to pay child support. if i am responsable for that child; and the child carries my DNA; i should have a say in the death of that child.
back in 1992; my girlfriend got pregnant. i begged her not to aboprt it. a year later we were married and she wanted a baby more than anything. she couldn't get pregnant because of something connected with the abortion. i still think of that child. how old it would be now. if it would've been a boy or girl. if my (now ex) wife wouldn't have turned to cocaine.
so it's not just the woman that has to live with abortion.
Laci Peterson, after the girl who was killed by Scott Peterson.
Two lives werel lost in that murder, not one.
yea; that's it. so if the fetus is considered a life; where does this leave abortion? i don't know of any provision in the criminal law that limits the age of the fetus. in other words; if you kill a woman just 2 weeks pregnant; you're still charged with 2 murders. the blood test need only show she was pregnant.
you're right. a man has no say in the matter. yet if she has the kid he has no say in the upbringing except to pay child support. if i am responsable for that child; and the child carries my DNA; i should have a say in the death of that child.
back in 1992; my girlfriend got pregnant. i begged her not to aboprt it. a year later we were married and she wanted a baby more than anything. she couldn't get pregnant because of something connected with the abortion. i still think of that child. how old it would be now. if it would've been a boy or girl. if my (now ex) wife wouldn't have turned to cocaine.
so it's not just the woman that has to live with abortion.
That's a sad story but an excellent testament to the unforeseen consequences of abortion. The rosey picture portrayed by the clinics is definitely not the case and I thank you for sharing that with us.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Ugly? Seriously? Name one republican woman thats hotter than Angelina Jolie or Scarlet Johansen. Not to mention people like Brad Pitt and Ben Afleck and even Barack Obama on the other gender. Shit, name one hot republican celebrity period. Have you ever been to Portland, Seattle, LA or New York City? There are shitloads of hot chicks, ask them who they vote for. If you want to talk shit about us liberals thats fine, but we're much more attractive on average.
Ugly? Seriously? Name one republican woman thats hotter than Angelina Jolie or Scarlet Johansen. Not to mention people like Brad Pitt and Ben Afleck and even Barack Obama on the other gender. Shit, name one hot republican celebrity period. Have you ever been to Portland, Seattle, LA or New York City? There are shitloads of hot chicks, ask them who they vote for. If you want to talk shit about us liberals thats fine, but we're much more attractive on average.
No way. You guys got all the ugly dykes, don't forget them. We have hot cheerleader bimbos, southern country chicks, pop wannabes (b/c of Britney Spears), and Elizabeth Hasselbeck.
You may have a lot of actresses and shit, but we have some hot chicks that have converted because of Ann Coulter. These are the girl next door types that go to college, not dumbass hollywood knownothings.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
No way. You guys got all the ugly dykes, don't forget them. We have hot cheerleader bimbos, southern country chicks, pop wannabes (b/c of Britney Spears), and Elizabeth Hasselbeck.
You may have a lot of actresses and shit, but we have some hot chicks that have converted because of Ann Coulter. These are the girl next door types that go to college, not dumbass hollywood knownothings.
You're seriously citing elizabeth hasselbeck?
You guys also have all the ugly redneck church ladies, I'll take a lesbian thanks. And I can tell you've never been around a liberal arts college, or been to an anti war protest
See.. that's the thing.. being pregnant and giving birth is not just about costs and money (or a dilated vagina, as one put it so nicely). There is a shitload of things happening to the expectant mother, physically, emotionally, heathwise, that is extremely difficult to describe if you haven't been through it. This does not stop with the birth... It is a very complicated situation.. most ladies going through a termination suffer a lot of angst about it, before and after, whatever her situation may be. Adding prison time to that would just be wrong.
...
I'm not saying it's all about money and costs. Either way, it's a raw deal. But, it's a decision that has to be made.
I'm stating that the decision should also be tempered by the man in the equation. I'm guessing that in many cases... the male vaporizes into thin air as soon as the words, 'Honey... I'm late' are uttered. If you want the men to share in the responsibilities of the pregnancy... you have to allow him rights to it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Lets put all our effort and energy into preventing unwanted pregnancy. That is something I think we all agree on.
"Whats gonna work? TEAMWORK!" - The Wonder Pets
...
This has been my mantra...
If the Anti-abortion group is so adamant about the issue... then, how about focusing your energy, your efforts, your money, your fanaticism... towards EDUCATION about the consequences of sex... so people don't get into this situation in the first place?
Solve your own problem... no more unwanted pregenancies, no more abortions.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
You guys also have all the ugly redneck church ladies, I'll take a lesbian thanks. And I can tell you've never been around a liberal arts college, or been to an anti war protest
I go to the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, VA. A liberal arts college. And I've been to an anti-war protest at said college. My college has been rated by playboy as one of the ugliest campuses in America. For girls. Not guys. I go there.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
last i checked, there were a hell of a lot of kids in fucked up foster care systems waiting to be adopted. so it looks like y'all have a bit more work to do then.
has your family adopted a baby?
The point you are missing is that these women should be more responsible and NOT get pregnant in the first place. You cannot argue that MOST of the women who seek abortions are raped. That simply isn't so. They are usually women who cannot afford a child, women who do not want a child, drug users or young girls who were careless or uneducated.
The problem isn't with deciding what to do AFTER conception...the problem is WHY these particular women are getting pregnant in the first place.
Most times it is due to carelessness or ignorance. Both of which can be erraticated if energy was put into them instead of fighting for the right to abort.
The priorities are skewed.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Most times it is due to carelessness or ignorance. Both of which can be erraticated if energy was put into them instead of fighting for the right to abort.
Oh, that's very nice, I like that a lot. We as a society don't put energy or resources into combating ignorance (say, through comprehensive sex-ed programs), so as a result we have women acting out of ignorance, and we should put them in prison for life? There's some compassionate conservatism!
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Oh, that's very nice, I like that a lot. We as a society don't put energy or resources into combating ignorance (say, through comprehensive sex-ed programs), so as a result we have women acting out of ignorance, and we should put them in prison for life? There's some compassionate conservatism!
Gee golly, I wonder WHAT women did before sex ed programs and roe v. wade? Oh wait, that's right, they STILL didn't abort their babies. Why? Society believed it was immoral. They also had intelligent attitudes about sex. That is: sex=babies.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Gee golly, I wonder WHAT women did before sex ed programs and roe v. wade? Oh wait, that's right, they STILL didn't abort their babies. Why? Society believed it was immoral. They also had intelligent attitudes about sex. That is: sex=babies.
Bullshit! Why don't you do a little research about what went on before medically provided abortions were available?
Or better yet have a little look at what they do in Africa?
Bullshit! Why don't you do a little research about what went on before medically provided abortions were available?
Or better yet have a little look at what they do in Africa?
But you just keep rewriting history! :rolleyes:
I've said it before and I'll say it again ... I'm glad neither of my kids wanted to go to the College of William and Mary. I'd refuse to pay for it, because it's obvious that you don't learn shit about history there.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I've said it before and I'll say it again ... I'm glad neither of my kids wanted to go to the College of William and Mary. I'd refuse to pay for it, because it's obvious that you don't learn shit about history there.
Yeah, well I'm starting to wonder just what on earth they do teach????
Coz so far nothing I've heard is impressing me much!
Isn't William and Mary a British soap opera type drama anyways?
Comments
A potential mother says "I can't afford this kid." That's it. The effect on her vagina size might also be a factor.
-Enoch Powell
You're not even "simplifying" things here. You're putting up non-sequitor distractions to a much larger issue.
I'm just stating that other than the pregnant woman... the only other person with a valid opinion is the guy who knocked her up. It shouldn't be strangers or politicians or religious fucks. And you're right, though... it ultimately comes down to HER decision, but he can and should provide an alternative solution, if he wants the child. If he doesn't care... he doesn't care and the anti-abortion people should be all over his ass as well.
IF he wants the child... he is willing to pay for 100% of all costs associated with the pregnancy and birth. Expecting her to split the costs is the same as asking the random girl you are adopting a child from to pay.
Once the child is born, the mother surrenders her parental rights... the same way mothers do not pay child support to the adopting parents.
Hail, Hail!!!
"Whats gonna work? TEAMWORK!" - The Wonder Pets
See.. that's the thing.. being pregnant and giving birth is not just about costs and money (or a dilated vagina, as one put it so nicely). There is a shitload of things happening to the expectant mother, physically, emotionally, heathwise, that is extremely difficult to describe if you haven't been through it. This does not stop with the birth... It is a very complicated situation.. most ladies going through a termination suffer a lot of angst about it, before and after, whatever her situation may be. Adding prison time to that would just be wrong.
Hopefully none. While I am not in favor of abortion and think it is the wrong choice with long term consequences that are glossed over I would not wan to see the mother jailed. I wouldn't care if they decided to jail the abortion provider.
I don't buy into the whole arguement of if you make it illegal you only push the activity underground making it more dangerous for the mother. You could apply this logic to get rid of just about every law in existence.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
We do. Now cue the abstinance only vs. condoms/sex ed thread...
Relegious right cannot have it both ways.
Abortion is bad. Condoms are bad. Sex education is bad. Guess you have to pick the worse of the evils. Condoms and sex ed win out.
Sex isnt bad. That is something else I think we all agree on.
Now that I think about it, and I have thought long and hard on this subject as its a moral quandry of mine (I really do see it through both sides), we really should........
PROMOTE HUMMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There, I solved that problem. Next....
so if the government will prosecute one man for killing a fetus; why is another free to continue killing fetuses? and if the woman not only allows it; but pays for the killing; why isn't that murder for hire?
Laci Peterson, after the girl who was killed by Scott Peterson.
Two lives werel lost in that murder, not one.
-Enoch Powell
you're right. a man has no say in the matter. yet if she has the kid he has no say in the upbringing except to pay child support. if i am responsable for that child; and the child carries my DNA; i should have a say in the death of that child.
back in 1992; my girlfriend got pregnant. i begged her not to aboprt it. a year later we were married and she wanted a baby more than anything. she couldn't get pregnant because of something connected with the abortion. i still think of that child. how old it would be now. if it would've been a boy or girl. if my (now ex) wife wouldn't have turned to cocaine.
so it's not just the woman that has to live with abortion.
yea; that's it. so if the fetus is considered a life; where does this leave abortion? i don't know of any provision in the criminal law that limits the age of the fetus. in other words; if you kill a woman just 2 weeks pregnant; you're still charged with 2 murders. the blood test need only show she was pregnant.
That's a sad story but an excellent testament to the unforeseen consequences of abortion. The rosey picture portrayed by the clinics is definitely not the case and I thank you for sharing that with us.
-Enoch Powell
Ugly? Seriously? Name one republican woman thats hotter than Angelina Jolie or Scarlet Johansen. Not to mention people like Brad Pitt and Ben Afleck and even Barack Obama on the other gender. Shit, name one hot republican celebrity period. Have you ever been to Portland, Seattle, LA or New York City? There are shitloads of hot chicks, ask them who they vote for. If you want to talk shit about us liberals thats fine, but we're much more attractive on average.
No way. You guys got all the ugly dykes, don't forget them. We have hot cheerleader bimbos, southern country chicks, pop wannabes (b/c of Britney Spears), and Elizabeth Hasselbeck.
You may have a lot of actresses and shit, but we have some hot chicks that have converted because of Ann Coulter. These are the girl next door types that go to college, not dumbass hollywood knownothings.
-Enoch Powell
You're seriously citing elizabeth hasselbeck?
You guys also have all the ugly redneck church ladies, I'll take a lesbian thanks. And I can tell you've never been around a liberal arts college, or been to an anti war protest
I'm not saying it's all about money and costs. Either way, it's a raw deal. But, it's a decision that has to be made.
I'm stating that the decision should also be tempered by the man in the equation. I'm guessing that in many cases... the male vaporizes into thin air as soon as the words, 'Honey... I'm late' are uttered. If you want the men to share in the responsibilities of the pregnancy... you have to allow him rights to it.
Hail, Hail!!!
This has been my mantra...
If the Anti-abortion group is so adamant about the issue... then, how about focusing your energy, your efforts, your money, your fanaticism... towards EDUCATION about the consequences of sex... so people don't get into this situation in the first place?
Solve your own problem... no more unwanted pregenancies, no more abortions.
Hail, Hail!!!
I go to the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, VA. A liberal arts college. And I've been to an anti-war protest at said college. My college has been rated by playboy as one of the ugliest campuses in America. For girls. Not guys. I go there.
-Enoch Powell
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
The point you are missing is that these women should be more responsible and NOT get pregnant in the first place. You cannot argue that MOST of the women who seek abortions are raped. That simply isn't so. They are usually women who cannot afford a child, women who do not want a child, drug users or young girls who were careless or uneducated.
The problem isn't with deciding what to do AFTER conception...the problem is WHY these particular women are getting pregnant in the first place.
Most times it is due to carelessness or ignorance. Both of which can be erraticated if energy was put into them instead of fighting for the right to abort.
The priorities are skewed.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Gee golly, I wonder WHAT women did before sex ed programs and roe v. wade? Oh wait, that's right, they STILL didn't abort their babies. Why? Society believed it was immoral. They also had intelligent attitudes about sex. That is: sex=babies.
-Enoch Powell
20 years per third-term fetus
Add 10 years if the post-abortion pictures are nice and gory
Add 10 years if the woman is a filthy liberal
Subtract 10 years for young attractive busty blonde women
FIN
Bullshit! Why don't you do a little research about what went on before medically provided abortions were available?
Or better yet have a little look at what they do in Africa?
But you just keep rewriting history! :rolleyes:
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Coz so far nothing I've heard is impressing me much!
Isn't William and Mary a British soap opera type drama anyways?
Actually that could explain a lot!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift