Is it possible to 'mentally rape' someone?

angelica

Cuntified C wrote:

I don't think the dialogue that takes place is anything like that at all. I know that you are only giving an example of something that could take place. As one poster say, if the person makes it clear that they just don't want to,or don't feel like it, and the person pleads and badgers you, then it is kinda crossing the line, don't you think?

It is crossing the line. However when you let them cross the line, and reward them for it by giving in and showing support for them crossing that line, that is showing weak boundaries, which are the responsibility of the person with weak boundaries. When two people are involved, there are two people who are 100% responsible for their actions.

Heatherj43

angelica wrote:

If I were a male, I'd be very particular about having distinct consent as you talk about, Heather!

Me too! The message about date rape and all keeps preaching that no means no, but never talks about did she say yes.
I think a verbal yes would solve a lot of these issues.

sponger

Sorry, I bumped the wrong thread. Here's the right thread.

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=219992

I wanted to resurrect that thread because I was reading about Barak Obama on Wiki and noticed this:

Obama writes about smoking marijuana and using cocaine during his teenage years to "push questions of who I was out of my mind."

This goes to reinforce what I was saying earlier in that thread about multi-racial youth having a greater chance of committing crimes and using drugs because of issues about their identity. The statistics I posted earlier in that thread were laughed at, and I developed a complex over it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

soulsinging

Cuntified C wrote:

Creepy question, but someone mentioned this to me a few years ago how it is possible to mentally rape someone as opposed to physically do it. I think this means actually getting someone to have sex with you, even though they really don't what to and that's made clear that you don't wanna do it. It could be something as simple as you don't want to have sex, but your partner does and so he/she puts some pressure on you to get what they want. And especially with men, they have to get a hard on before they can have sex so when a guy claims sometimes that their female boss put pressure on them to have sex and claim millions (though women in the same situation get a lot less money in compensation) is that still rape. I think it is. I have heard stories of men, and women who have said that they didn't feel like they were in the mood for it but went ahead because their other half did. That's happened to me, I felt pushed into it one time as it had been a while, but I didn't feel like it, but he insisted to the point where I felt I had to although he knew I didn't want to. And he himself said he felt pushed into it one time as his girlfriend just wouldn't stop until he did. I think this one is a bit more extreme but I think it can be more subtle as well...

What do you guys think?

that's ridiculous. any sex in marriage would be rape then, cos you know they only do it out of obligation and would rather not.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

If someone clearly indicates that they don't want to have sex, then I'd say that's rape. I doubt it could be proven, but to me, it's rape.

danika_bookworm

Heineken Helen wrote:

Don't be ridiculous. Not all rape is the violent kind and not all victims believe they're gonna be killed or hurt badly. It may not be the kind of rape that would usually end up in court but it would still fall under the definition of rape. If you dont want to have sex with somebody and tell them so and they go ahead anyway, it's rape.

yeah, but it should be clear that the victim has said "no" to the proposal of sex... but physical danger, as you said, is not necessary so as to be a rape victim.

soulsinging

Saturnal wrote:

If someone clearly indicates that they don't want to have sex, then I'd say that's rape. I doubt it could be proven, but to me, it's rape.

"in one survey of women undergraduates, 39% reported that they had said 'no' when they meant yes, and 61% of the sexually experienced women in the survey said that they had done so. 90% of those women said that fear of appearing promiscuous was an important reason for their behavior. Many said they wanted their dated to wait or 'talk me into it,' and some said that they told their dates 'no' becos they 'wanted him to be more physically aggressive."
- Kadish, criminal law and its processes.

are men truly at fault for being rapists, or are women at fault for telling us that no doesn't always mean no and wanting us to be more aggressive and work for it before giving it up?

enharmonic

Since there is a psychological element to sexual assault, all rape by virtue of commission is "mental". The physical component is easilly measured...bruises, cuts, tears, injuries. It's often the softer side of the attack that gets overlooked or discounted. By softer, I mean the psychological and emotional scarring that cannot be readily qualified or quantified.

You see a woman who has been brutally raped, it is "easy" to understand the physical pain component. But without being a victim of such a coarse personal violation, the psychological/mental/emotional component is not as easily understood by most.

soulsinging

enharmonic wrote:

Since there is a psychological element to sexual assault, all rape by virtue of commission is "mental". The physical component is easilly measured...bruises, cuts, tears, injuries. It's often the softer side of the attack that gets overlooked or discounted. By softer, I mean the psychological and emotional scarring that cannot be readily qualified or quantified.

You see a woman who has been brutally raped, it is "easy" to understand the physical pain component. But without being a victim of such a coarse personal violation, the psychological/mental/emotional component is not as easily understood by most.

how do you measure that in order to throw some guy in jail for years and leave him marked a rapist for the rest of his life? a guy's drunk, wants to get laid, whines, begs, and pleads for it, and now he's a rapist for life... that hardly seems fair. women wanted equality. they claim they are the equal of men. that means they can say no and mean it. that means that if words induce them to sex, it is their problem. giving in becos you're annoyed or afraid he'll dump you is not good enough to ruin a guy's life with a rape charge. if you dont want to, say no. if he persists, kick him the fuck out or leave. if he applies force, be it by threat or whatever, then you've got a case. but until then, im sorry but no. it would open the door to impossibly speculative and arbitrary convictions for rape against guys who probably do not deserve it.

Heineken Helen

soulsinging wrote:

how do you measure that in order to throw some guy in jail for years and leave him marked a rapist for the rest of his life? a guy's drunk, wants to get laid, whines, begs, and pleads for it, and now he's a rapist for life... that hardly seems fair. women wanted equality. they claim they are the equal of men. that means they can say no and mean it. that means that if words induce them to sex, it is their problem. giving in becos you're annoyed or afraid he'll dump you is not good enough to ruin a guy's life with a rape charge. if you dont want to, say no. if he persists, kick him the fuck out or leave. if he applies force, be it by threat or whatever, then you've got a case. but until then, im sorry but no. it would open the door to impossibly speculative and arbitrary convictions for rape against guys who probably do not deserve it.

:rolleyes: Don't talk about something you know absolutely nothing about and tell us how to react in a situation. You have NO fucking idea. Do YOU know how YOU'D react say if you were mugged? I can say without a doubt you do not. You know what way you SHOULD react though I'm sure... but nobody NOBODY knows how they're going to react in a certain situation until they're IN that situation... so when YOU'VE had somebody try to rape you and kicked them off... THEN come back and tell everyone THAT'S how they should react :rolleyes:

ecd1973

soulsinging wrote:

that's ridiculous. any sex in marriage would be rape then, cos you know they only do it out of obligation and would rather not.

I'm assuming "they" means women? So you are saying that, in your opinion, married women don't want to have sex?

soulsinging

ecd1973 wrote:

I'm assuming "they" means women? So you are saying that, in your opinion, married women don't want to have sex?

you assume wrong. it was a joke implying that nobody wants to have sex anymore once they marry.

soulsinging

Heineken Helen wrote:

:rolleyes: Don't talk about something you know absolutely nothing about and tell us how to react in a situation. You have NO fucking idea. Do YOU know how YOU'D react say if you were mugged? I can say without a doubt you do not. You know what way you SHOULD react though I'm sure... but nobody NOBODY knows how they're going to react in a certain situation until they're IN that situation... so when YOU'VE had somebody try to rape you and kicked them off... THEN come back and tell everyone THAT'S how they should react :rolleyes:

i have been mugged. that is an act of violence and pressure. if a friend keeps bugging you to give them $10, badgering you constantly and incessantly with nothing but words and whining... should they be considered a thief if you give in and give it to them? im speaking strictly about words, whining, cajoling, begging, pleading, or whatever. that isnt rape. unless there's more substantial and threatening pressure, it cannot be rape becos the line between rape and just trying to get laid would be absolutely impossible to draw.

Heineken Helen

soulsinging wrote:

i have been mugged. that is an act of violence and pressure. if a friend keeps bugging you to give them $10, badgering you constantly and incessantly with nothing but words and whining... should they be considered a thief if you give in and give it to them? im speaking strictly about words, whining, cajoling, begging, pleading, or whatever. that isnt rape. unless there's more substantial and threatening pressure, it cannot be rape becos the line between rape and just trying to get laid would be absolutely impossible to draw.

I'm referring to this part:

'if you dont want to, say no. if he persists, kick him the fuck out or leave. if he applies force, be it by threat or whatever, then you've got a case. but until then, im sorry but no. it would open the door to impossibly speculative and arbitrary convictions for rape against guys who probably do not deserve it'

If a woman says no, then leave it. If she acts like she's changed her mind ASK HER! Yes women may say no and then change their mind but I don't know where you come up with this idea about no meaning yes...

soulsinging

Heineken Helen wrote:

I'm referring to this part:

'if you dont want to, say no. if he persists, kick him the fuck out or leave. if he applies force, be it by threat or whatever, then you've got a case. but until then, im sorry but no. it would open the door to impossibly speculative and arbitrary convictions for rape against guys who probably do not deserve it'

If a woman says no, then leave it. If she acts like she's changed her mind ASK HER! Yes women may say no and then change their mind but I don't know where you come up with this idea about no meaning yes...

i agree he should leave it alone. but if a woman says no and the guy keeps whining, that's annoying, not rape. you can ask him to leave for being an annoying prat. if he wont, then there is trouble and that qualifies as more than annoying. but giving in just becos a guy is annoying is not rape. if he's being aggressive, threatening, or pressuring, that is a different story.

dunkman

soulsinging wrote:

you assume wrong. it was a joke implying that nobody wants to have sex anymore once they marry.

they do so want to have sex.... just not with each other

ThumbingMyWay32

dunkman1974 wrote:

they do so want to have sex.... just not with each other

I'm going to go ahead and put this out there, so, here goes... I've been mentally undressing angelica for the last 15 minutes. I will admit it's kind of odd mentally undressing a Canadian, but after the initial 10 minutes you get used to it.

angelica

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

I'm going to go ahead and put this out there, so, here goes... I've been mentally undressing angelica for the last 15 minutes. I will admit it's kind of odd mentally undressing a Canadian, but after the initial 10 minutes you get used to it.

It sounds like you've got a problem with Canada, among other things!

I know, I know, soulsinging has already enlightened me on this--it saves me from my usual girlish indignance......if you guys have seen us, you've seen us naked.

ThumbingMyWay32

angelica wrote:

It sounds like you've got a problem with Canada, among other things!

I know, I know, soulsinging has already enlightened me on this--it saves me from my usual girlish indignance......if you guys have seen us, you've seen us naked.

So I'm not your first forum admirer? This certainly puts a damper on things.

angelica

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

So I'm not your first forum admirer? This certainly puts a damper on things.

oops! soulsinging was saying it in general, not directly regarding me. Oh, and considering I've felt mentally undressed on numerous occasions, he was only letting us girls know what we already know.

But out of curiosity, how would not being my first forum admirer put a damper on "things".