Is it possible to 'mentally rape' someone?

Cuntified C

Creepy question, but someone mentioned this to me a few years ago how it is possible to mentally rape someone as opposed to physically do it. I think this means actually getting someone to have sex with you, even though they really don't what to and that's made clear that you don't wanna do it. It could be something as simple as you don't want to have sex, but your partner does and so he/she puts some pressure on you to get what they want. And especially with men, they have to get a hard on before they can have sex so when a guy claims sometimes that their female boss put pressure on them to have sex and claim millions (though women in the same situation get a lot less money in compensation) is that still rape. I think it is. I have heard stories of men, and women who have said that they didn't feel like they were in the mood for it but went ahead because their other half did. That's happened to me, I felt pushed into it one time as it had been a while, but I didn't feel like it, but he insisted to the point where I felt I had to although he knew I didn't want to. And he himself said he felt pushed into it one time as his girlfriend just wouldn't stop until he did. I think this one is a bit more extreme but I think it can be more subtle as well...

What do you guys think?

JustVisiting

I don't think a sittuation like that is rape unless there was some clear implication that you would be in danger if you did not comply.

I think in a sittuation where someone is putting a lot of pressure on you to have sex with them, it might be a nasty thing for them to do but you still have to take responsibility for your own ability to say "no". Unless they physically force themselves on you or imply that some harm would come to you if you refused, then you still had a choice.

I'm not condoning that type of behaviour but I wouldn't call it rape.

Abuskedti

No!

I didn't read your post

but the evil of Rape is when someone is hurt.. If you are a pervert and dream about Rape - you are hurting noone but yourself.

Heineken Helen

JustVisiting wrote:

I don't think a sittuation like that is rape unless there was some clear implication that you would be in danger if you did not comply.

I think in a sittuation where someone is putting a lot of pressure on you to have sex with them, it might be a nasty thing for them to do but you still have to take responsibility for your own ability to say "no". Unless they physically force themselves on you or imply that some harm would come to you if you refused, then you still had a choice.

I'm not condoning that type of behaviour but I wouldn't call it rape.

Don't be ridiculous. Not all rape is the violent kind and not all victims believe they're gonna be killed or hurt badly. It may not be the kind of rape that would usually end up in court but it would still fall under the definition of rape. If you dont want to have sex with somebody and tell them so and they go ahead anyway, it's rape.

Whizbang

Though I have no experience with it, my take is that rape is less about the sexual act than it is about power & control over someone else. Forgive me if I'm way off base but that is my take. With rape, the sexual act is the end result of one person attempting to physically control and conquer another (and yes, the mental wounds last far longer). There is mental abuse involved when pressuing someone to have sex when they don't want to or have their doubts but I wouldn't consider it rape. To clearly say 'no' and have it forced upon you is rape.

Heatherj43

I believe it is possible. For instance, many women in abusive relationships are afraid to say no. They feel the consequences would be physical abuse. While it is true it is their own responsiblility to say no, when in such a relationship it is not so easy. It involves the whole thing as to why they even stay in such relationships.
Also, I was once married to a man who would sexually assault me in my sleep. Its a long story and hard to explain, but he did things while I was asleep and I would occassionally awake. He would then quickly act as if he was sleeping. I would fake that I was back asleep, just to see if he was really doing this..and I will be damned...he was!!!

He was an abusive person, so I was afraid as to how to deal with it. It was many years ago and I was quite young. The kicker is that he was a virgin when I married him. We were both only 18. I was pregnant when we married.
The bastard did assault me in my sleep.

The entire abuse thing can make women do things they do not want to do. They end up doing it out of fear and all that goes with that.

Heatherj43

Abuskedti wrote:

No!

I didn't read your post

but the evil of Rape is when someone is hurt.. If you are a pervert and dream about Rape - you are hurting noone but yourself.

The emotional and mental harm done in such cases as I described, the abusive spouse thing, someone does get hurt. And yes, it is all about control and power. I feel these types of people feel so inadequate that this is the way they try to get some power in their lives to feel superior.

angelica

Cuntified C wrote:

Creepy question, but someone mentioned this to me a few years ago how it is possible to mentally rape someone as opposed to physically do it. I think this means actually getting someone to have sex with you, even though they really don't what to and that's made clear that you don't wanna do it. It could be something as simple as you don't want to have sex, but your partner does and so he/she puts some pressure on you to get what they want. And especially with men, they have to get a hard on before they can have sex so when a guy claims sometimes that their female boss put pressure on them to have sex and claim millions (though women in the same situation get a lot less money in compensation) is that still rape. I think it is. I have heard stories of men, and women who have said that they didn't feel like they were in the mood for it but went ahead because their other half did. That's happened to me, I felt pushed into it one time as it had been a while, but I didn't feel like it, but he insisted to the point where I felt I had to although he knew I didn't want to. And he himself said he felt pushed into it one time as his girlfriend just wouldn't stop until he did. I think this one is a bit more extreme but I think it can be more subtle as well...

What do you guys think?

If part of us does not want to have sex and yet another part over rules that part for any reason and gives in, that's choice. Obviously, such a choice can be regretted, one can learn from it, and make a different choice the next time.

Things get sticky because the difference in date rapes, where there may not be brute force or violence, but where there still remains force, is that a person genuinely chooses not to have sex, and genuinely clearly express, "no", 1 or many times. They may be coerced to have sex anyway, or they may be sexually assaulted while at no point agreeing and giving in.

This has happened to me various times when I was younger. Having been sexually assaulted a few times as a child, by the times these "date rape" situations happened when I was an adult, when my boundaries--my "no's" and pleas--were not being respected, and the "rapist" proceeded to have sex with me without consent, I would go into shock and not be able to reconcile what I intended and what was happening against my will. Many individuals are messed up in childhood in such ways, and are ripe for predators using coersion as a power method. It's also possible that the rapist is a friend and the shock and confusion that a "trusted" friend could do such a thing, renders one unable to physically fight back. Or, one might realise fighting is futile, since men have 2 1/2 times the musculature of women. This is why date-rape education teaches young people about their own boundaries and about the boundaries of others. These boundaries must be respected long before you have a person fighting you off physically.

angelica

Heatherj43 wrote:

I believe it is possible. For instance, many women in abusive relationships are afraid to say no. They feel the consequences would be physical abuse. While it is true it is their own responsiblility to say no, when in such a relationship it is not so easy. It involves the whole thing as to why they even stay in such relationships.
Also, I was once married to a man who would sexually assault me in my sleep. Its a long story and hard to explain, but he did things while I was asleep and I would occassionally awake. He would then quickly act as if he was sleeping. I would fake that I was back asleep, just to see if he was really doing this..and I will be damned...he was!!!

He was an abusive person, so I was afraid as to how to deal with it. It was many years ago and I was quite young. The kicker is that he was a virgin when I married him. We were both only 18. I was pregnant when we married.
The bastard did assault me in my sleep.

The entire abuse thing can make women do things they do not want to do. They end up doing it out of fear and all that goes with that.

I hear you Heather. I've been sexually assaulted in my sleep numerous times. It was so ludicrous for me at one point I came to believe all men did it. (I no longer feel this way!)

Eventually, I learned about willfullness/will-lessness. Some people are willful and will take what does not belong to them if they can get it--what they've not earned. Others have developed a lack of will--an inability to protect their own boundaries in a way that serves them. Both sides of the coin tend to find each other. In the end the willful and the will-less each own their own patterns, and the circumstances such patterns bring to them in their lives. And ultimately, each one has the ability to reconcile the unhealthy pattern and find healthier ways.

merlin401

Heatherj43 wrote:

I believe it is possible. For instance, many women in abusive relationships are afraid to say no. They feel the consequences would be physical abuse. While it is true it is their own responsiblility to say no, when in such a relationship it is not so easy. It involves the whole thing as to why they even stay in such relationships.

Then the crime there is the "physical abuse" not that they were mentally raped.

If there's no threat associated with it and someone just "gives in" then its their fault for not standing up for themselves

soulsinging

"when she says stop, you gotta stop. when he says go you still gotta stop."

once a partner says no, it is rape. if you persist, badger, cajole, plead, pressure, whatever... it's rape. yes, some people do need to be more assertive about their choices and standing up for themselves, but that does not exonerate anybody who would take advantage of that. i have an ex who had huge problems with that. i could tell when we were getting into situations that made her uncomfortable and id ask if she wanted me to stop and i would. shortly after going to college she was with a guy who wasnt so considerate. she said no repeatedly and cried but never put up a fight and he never threatened her. he just did what he wanted and she was afraid to stop him. luckily, he didnt go so far as to have sex with her, but it was horrible to hear her in the morning when she called me crying about the experience. that is sexual assault to me.

in my mind, what merlin said is like saying it's ok to kick a puppy becos the puppy isnt big enough to bite back. or have sex with a child becos a child should just stand up for itself. some people just dont have the tools or strength or esteem to be aggressively assertive about their boundaries and that does not give ANYONE the right to have their way with such a person just cos they're too weak to stop it. by that logic, let's bring back slavery... cos if you're too weak to stand up for your rights then the more powerful person should have no qualms taking whatever they want from you.

Abuskedti

Heatherj43 wrote:

The emotional and mental harm done in such cases as I described, the abusive spouse thing, someone does get hurt. And yes, it is all about control and power. I feel these types of people feel so inadequate that this is the way they try to get some power in their lives to feel superior.

yes, I didn't know what he was talking about it.. its an interesting concept.

I don't know if we have to call it rape.. but abuse is abuse. The key is to teach people to stand up for themselves. This is just another problem that arises from poor education.

angelica

merlin401 wrote:

Then the crime there is the "physical abuse" not that they were mentally raped.

If there's no threat associated with it and someone just "gives in" then its their fault for not standing up for themselves

I was sexually assaulted in my sleep many times. I felt powerless to assert change. I felt raped and abused. Ultimately, I've learned that if I do not say no, and I'm aware it's happening, I'm accepting it with my actions. It is my job to say no--to communicate that to the other person.

At the same time, if one is having sex with someone when they sleep, they are having sex with them without their consent. That is clearly sexual assault.

Heatherj43

merlin401 wrote:

Then the crime there is the "physical abuse" not that they were mentally raped.

If there's no threat associated with it and someone just "gives in" then its their fault for not standing up for themselves

Rape is physical abuse!! A woman in an abusive relationship cannot stand up for themselves. There is a threat...a very strong threat...but I guess one has to walk in those shoes to understand the threat.
After one gets bones in their neck broke from being choked, broken nose, fingers broke, then they might understand how an abusive spouse has used this abuse and fear to be able to rape his mate throroughly through mental fear.
I was 18 years old...once I was able to get away from this man, I became one strong woman. No man ever hit me again...and if one even tried...holy moly, there would be hell to pay, but unless you are in that position you have no idea.
It is rape when you are threatened with bodily harm....and rape is physical abuse!!!! They both are about control...when it involves sex out of fear it is rape and phyical abuse. It is both, do you see???

merlin401

angelica wrote:

At the same time, if one is having sex with someone when they sleep, they are having sex with them without their consent. That is clearly sexual assault.

Well thats obvious, yes. But the poster is saying that the "rape victim" is fully aware and they just got talked into it or badged into it. No way that is rape. The way some people are giving their definitions it would be like

"Honey, can we have sex"
"Um, no"
"Oh please, you look so beautiful tonight"
"Ok, sure lets go"

is rape. Thats ridiculous.

merlin401

Heatherj43 wrote:

Rape is physical abuse!! A woman in an abusive relationship cannot stand up for themselves. There is a threat...a very strong threat...but I guess one has to walk in those shoes to understand the threat.
After one gets bones in their neck broke from being choked, broken nose, fingers broke, then they might understand how an abusive spouse has used this abuse and fear to be able to rape his mate throroughly through mental fear.
I was 18 years old...once I was able to get away from this man, I became one strong woman. No man ever hit me again...and if one even tried...holy moly, there would be hell to pay, but unless you are in that position you have no idea.
It is rape when you are threatened with bodily harm....and rape is physical abuse!!!! They both are about control...when it involves sex out of fear it is rape and phyical abuse. It is both, do you see???

My point is, the problems in a situation where someone was raped because they agreed out of fear of physical abuse started way before the sexual incident. Forget the "is it mental rape or consensual sex" part of the question. The guy should have been arrested before things even got to that point so i think that case for "mental rape" should be thrown out.

JustVisiting

Heineken Helen wrote:

Don't be ridiculous. Not all rape is the violent kind and not all victims believe they're gonna be killed or hurt badly. It may not be the kind of rape that would usually end up in court but it would still fall under the definition of rape. If you dont want to have sex with somebody and tell them so and they go ahead anyway, it's rape.

Absolutely, but that doesn't contradict what I was meaning. In the sittuation you describe where you have not agreed to it, I would say that the person physically forced themselves onto you. This comes under what I was talking about when I said "unless they physically force themselves on you or imply that some harm would come to you if you refused...". Perhaps my use of the words "physical force" was a little vague but I meant it to cover the sort of sittuation you described.

What I am rejecting is the idea that if someone nags you repeatedly for sex and you end up reluctantly agreeing, even though you don't want to, then that is rape. It sounded to me that this is what the original poster was talking about. Perhaps I was mistaken though.

Heatherj43

angelica wrote:

I was sexually assaulted in my sleep many times. I felt powerless to assert change. I felt raped and abused. Ultimately, I've learned that if I do not say no, and I'm aware it's happening, I'm accepting it with my actions. It is my job to say no--to communicate that to the other person.

At the same time, if one is having sex with someone when they sleep, they are having sex with them without their consent. That is clearly sexual assault.

Exactly!! If I am asleep, I cannot consent! The bastard would act as if he was sleeping if I awoke. If he wasn't sexually assualting me, then why would he pretend to sleep if I awoke. Answer: because he knew it was against my will!!!
I did tell him many times that it was wrong and to leave me alone, but then again, he was abusive. He would still do it.
It took a lot for me to leave him, we had two kids. And I was afraid of him. In the course of the divorce and after, he continued to assault me for 2 years. I had restraining orders and could not get the cops to honor them.
He would come into my home even after we were divorced, drunk at like 2 am and beat the shit out of me. The cops once said to me, "well if we try to arrest him he will resist". (My ex was a big guy). They told me I need to leave my home, with my two little kids!! I was shocked. The cops were even afraid of him!!!
I had to finally get some guy friend of mine to beat the holy hell out of him...he never bothered me again.

merlin401

JustVisiting wrote:

What I am rejecting is the idea that if someone nags you repeatedly for sex and you end up reluctantly agreeing, even though you don't want to, then that is rape. It sounded to me that this is what the original poster was talking about. Perhaps I was mistaken though.

Exactly, thats what I take the poster to mean as well and that situation is definitely not rape.

farfromglorified

It is not possible to be mentally raped.

Rape of the body is the act of sex without sanction.

To 'rape' someone's mind requires the sanction of that mind.

Heatherj43

merlin401 wrote:

My point is, the problems in a situation where someone was raped because they agreed out of fear of physical abuse started way before the sexual incident. Forget the "is it mental rape or consensual sex" part of the question. The guy should have been arrested before things even got to that point so i think that case for "mental rape" should be thrown out.

You are right, the physical abuse came first. But, that issue is a long one to explain...as to how women get themselves in abusive relationships. And as for they should had been already arrested...hahaha!!! I had restraining orders that I could not get cops to honor, so learn about abuse before you talk junk you don't know.
While I was awaiting my divorce, he even had the right to come into my home, cuz it was his too until after the divorce, even with the order. I had 3 restraining orders in total and not one was honored by any cops. This is even when he came to my home and beat the crap out of me.


The psychology of abuse is long and well studied, go learn about it...but yes...sexual assault and rape occurs along with the beatings!!! It is rape!!!!!!!!!!!!

merlin401

farfromglorified wrote:

It is not possible to be mentally raped.

Rape of the body is the act of sex without sanction.

To 'rape' someone's mind requires the sanction of that mind.

Well, technically, I suppose you could give someone a post-hypnotic suggestion to agree to have sex with you. This would be the only way i would agree to a case of mental rape!

Heatherj43

farfromglorified wrote:

It is not possible to be mentally raped.

Rape of the body is the act of sex without sanction.

To 'rape' someone's mind requires the sanction of that mind.

LOL!! I was waiting for someone to answer the question as it was posed.
Do you think that cult leaders can rape the mind?

farfromglorified

merlin401 wrote:

Well, technically, I suppose you could give someone a post-hypnotic suggestion to agree to have sex with you. This would be the only way i would agree to a case of mental rape!

Even hypnotism requires the sanction of the hypnotized mind.

merlin401

Heatherj43 wrote:

You are right, the physical abuse came first. But, that issue is a long one to explain...as to how women get themselves in abusive relationships. And as for they should had been already arrested...hahaha!!! I had restraining orders that I could not get cops to honor, so learn about abuse before you talk junk you don't know.
While I was awaiting my divorce, he even had the right to come into my home, cuz it was his too until after the divorce, even with the order. I had 3 restraining orders in total and not one was honored by any cops. This is even when he came to my home and beat the crap out of me.


The psychology of abuse is long and well studied, go learn about it...but yes...sexual assault and rape occurs along with the beatings!!! It is rape!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alright, I see what your'e saying. But we can't apply your situation of 'mental rape' in an abusive relationship to non-abusive relationships. That 'mental rape' is occuring because felonies have already been committed by the guy. In a non-absusive relationship, I do not agree that this sort of 'mental rape' can occur.

farfromglorified

Heatherj43 wrote:

Do you think that cult leaders can rape the mind?

Not quite, but that's pretty close. A cult leader attacks a mind, but it's still primarily up to that mind to drop its defenses and then actively suppress them.

That example is about as close as it comes, though.

merlin401

farfromglorified wrote:

Even hypnotism requires the sanction of the hypnotized mind.

I'm not so sure about that... Your mind may be willing to have sex (in general) so a post-hypnotic suggestion to have sex would not be rejected by your mind on moral grounds. Instead, you may, from personal preferences, not have chosen to have sex with that particular person. People perform stupid things under post-hypnotic suggestion that they would not have preferred to do all the time, because the physical act is not something they would morally object to.

Heatherj43

farfromglorified wrote:

Not quite, but that's pretty close. A cult leader attacks a mind, but it's still primarily up to that mind to drop its defenses and then actively suppress them.

That example is about as close as it comes, though.

Physical rape usually involves attacking someone weaker, wouldn't a cult leader be doing the same thing...going after the weaker minded person. Hell, advertisers, government, religion...alll do the same thing to some extent.
But, it involves taking power and control from the weak minded, who likely cannot defend itself.

Like, in sexual rape, I doubt a 100 lb man would be able to rape a bulky 225 man...because of the strength...wouldn't it be the same in who has the weaker mind?
I think some people have that weak of a mind...or we wouldn't see the cults we have seen, like David Korash, Manson, and those guys with the tennis shoes. I think all of those followers may have been mentally raped. Do you?

farfromglorified

merlin401 wrote:

I'm not so sure about that... Your mind may be willing to have sex (in general) so a post-hypnotic suggestion to have sex would not be rejected by your mind on moral grounds. Instead, you may, from personal preferences, not have chosen to have sex with that particular person. People perform stupid things under post-hypnotic suggestion that they would not have preferred to do all the time, because the physical act is not something they would morally object to.

The act of inducing hypnotism is what I'm talking about in regards to sanction.

merlin401

farfromglorified wrote:

The act of inducing hypnotism is what I'm talking about in regards to sanction.

ahh, gotcha... I read your post in a different way. Then: Agreed!

This conversation is going off though... looks like now people are discussing mental rape as if it were synonymous with "brainwashing"

farfromglorified

Heatherj43 wrote:

Physical rape usually involves attacking someone weaker, wouldn't a cult leader be doing the same thing...going after the weaker minded person. Hell, advertisers, government, religion...alll do the same thing to some extent.
But, it involves taking power and control from the weak minded, who likely cannot defend itself.

The difference between the mind and body is that a "weak mind" still has everything necessary to reject those attacks. A "weak body" does not.

Like, in sexual rape, I doubt a 100 lb man would be able to rape a bulky 225 man...because of the strength...wouldn't it be the same in who has the weaker mind?

Not really. It takes "agreement" to be raped or to follow a cult leader. The "agreement" in a physical rape is a forced agreement that goes against the will of the victim. The agreement to follow a cult leader (or a government or a religion or an advertisement or a whatever) is the will of the victim.

One goes against the will, the other goes with the will.

I think some people have that weak of a mind...or we wouldn't see the cults we have seen, like David Korash, Manson, and those guys with the tennis shoes. I think all of those followers may have been mentally raped. Do you?

No. Not to defend cult leaders or advertisers ro governments or whatver, but I see persuasion and force as two distinct things.