Your Opionion of Barack Obama

El_Kabong

Deni wrote:

Well really, that was a joke. Here are the reasons I support him.

http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/

And that's not counting the fact that I just like him. I JUST LIKE HIM. When it boils right down to it I'm going to go with my gut and pick the person who I think is the nicest person. I'd like a nice person in the office next term, please! Not a self serving ego maniac.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6GUYHunE1c

El_Kabong

gue_barium wrote:

Barack has written two books about himself.

now there's an unbiased source who will tell us all we need to know!

this reminds me of that dave chappelle skit about antwone fisher and making your own biography!

Deni

El_Kabong wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6GUYHunE1c

Sorry Kabong! I didn't understand a word of that song! How can anybody listen to that shite! *giggles*

Deni

gue_barium wrote:

Barack has written two books about himself.

That's called an auto-biography. I'm going to write one some day. I don't see the harm in it.

gue_barium

Deni wrote:

That's called an auto-biography. I'm going to write one some day. I don't see the harm in it.

I don't think either were autobiographies. At least not in the traditional sense.

He's a sell-out.

Deni

gue_barium wrote:

I don't think either were autobiographies. At least not in the traditional sense.

He's a sell-out.

Well, I know what an autobiography is when I read one, but you are of course entitled to your stupid little opinion.

Just kidding.

RainDog

El_Kabong wrote:

why i won't vote for or support obama is not b/c he's the popular guy it's b/c

-he voted to reauthorize the patriot act

But against domestic spying and wiretap provisions. Not perfect, but reasonable.

El_Kabong wrote:

-voted against capping credit card interest rates at 30%
Obama, in one of his earliest Senate votes, departed with his own party and voted for class action “reform” legislation. The bill, as Ken Silverstein wrote for Harper’s, was “lobbied for aggressively by financial firms, which constitute Obama’s second biggest single bloc of donors.” An amendment to the legislation, which the senator opposed, would have capped credit card interest rates at 30%. Obama, unfortunately, didn’t see a need for any cap on such predatory lending.

Not that important to me. It would be nice to have credit card interest rates lower - but I don't use credit cards.

El_Kabong wrote:

-his support for an attack on iran if they built a nuke "all options are on the table" does that mean using nukes ourselves against them?

No it doesn't. It's a dumb platitude that basically means "I'm armed." And, as he told Dennis in the first debate, he has no plans of attacking Iran.

El_Kabong wrote:

-has as top economic and trade advisors a guy high up in citigroup and another guy who helped craft and push NAFTA through advised Mexico on NAFTA dealings and argued for escalting the WTO just 1-2 years ago, a credit card lobbyist and big oil poponent
**note, here's what wikipedia has to say of obama's man from citigroup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Rubin#Citigroup_and_post-political_career
He sparked controversy in 2001 when he contacted an acquaintance at the Treasury Department and asked if the department could convince bond-rating agencies not to downgrade the corporate debt of Enron, a debtor of Citigroup. Rubin wanted Enron creditors to loan money to the troubled company for a restructuring of its debt; a collapse of the energy giant might have serious consequences for financial markets and energy distribution.

His "trade advisor" isn't him. And apparently his trade advisor hasn't had much of an impact on his political positions, as such:
* Insist on labor and human rights standards for China trade. (Jul 2004)
* Fair trade should have tangible benefits for US. (Jun 2004)
* Voted YES on free trade agreement with Oman. (Jun 2006)
* Voted NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)
And from his own site (regarding this specific individual, in fact):
Obama has a strong pro-labor voting record. Obama voted against the Central American Free Trade Agreement and has said that NAFTA should be renegotiated. Obama has cosponsored many important bills to help workers, including: an increase in the minimum wage, and the Employee Free Choice Act. He also championed efforts in the Senate to help air traffic controllers engaged in a labor dispute with the Federal Aviation Administration

El_Kabong wrote:

-thinks nuclear power is 'green' energy source
Barack Obama believes nuclear power is “green” and told the Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works, of which Barack is a member, that Congress should allow “nuclear power to remain on the table for consideration”. Employees of Exelon, which is the nation’s largest nuclear power plant operator, have donated over $159,000 to Obama’s presidential campaign as of March 31, 2007. That amount has likely increased since the first public tallying of campaign contributions two months ago.

I have family members who work for nuclear power plants in different parts of the country. Good to know he supports the family business.

I waiver on this issue. If we can find something safe to do with the radioactive byproducts, it would be green. And we're getting there. Technology is quite different now than in the 1970s.

However, I haven't really read his postion on this one.

El_Kabong wrote:

--previously stated we needed to stay in iraq until the insurgency was defeated adn even then we keep a permanent presence there to let iran and syria know we are serious

And now he doesn't. You can call it a flip flop if you want, but the remarks that I know of were made two years ago - and tempered with a "we don't know what the situation will look like in six months to a year." Well, we're past that point, and now we know what it looks like.

El_Kabong wrote:

--didn't really support any of the actual progressives in their campaigns (sorry, vg, but i don't see raising money 2 years earlier while you go out on a publicity tour is really supporting the actual person...if dick cheney won the democratic primary he would've gotten the money, too. if john lee malvo won the primary he'd get the money, too...instead he put any actual support behind hawks like joe lieberman

To this I say, "So?" So he's a Democrat. So what?

El_Kabong wrote:

-now, to some of you maybe kucinich saying he is against abortion personally but supports a person's right to choice is too big of an issue or the flag desecration act....but to me, just the handful of reasons i have of why i won't back obama faaaaaaaaaaaar outweigh those 2 things for me. if you all are fine w/ that then support away, it just seems to be contradictory, far more so than those 2 kucinich issues, compared w/ previous posts but everyone is entitled to change their minds.

i'm not trying to attack anyone or start a fight, but come on, picking the president is a pretty big thing and i take these issues i listed very seriously, they do not embody what i believe, in fact they are pretty much in direct contradiction w/ my view. maybe 'the world' isn't ready for my view...oh well, i'm not gonna wait around for it to be, i'll stand behind what i believe and not compromise any more on certain things, especially these...it always seems we have to compromise to suit the status quo, i say, for me, no more, i'm stepping out of your line

Yes, picking the president is a big deal. And when you don't compromise, the world is not simply "not ready for you" - the world will actively try to leave you behind. It really has no place for anti-social socialists. Forgive me for being a realist (not really much of one if you think about it), and I'm not trying to pick a fight either. If the above issues are so important to you, fine. This is the primary season, and you've picked your candidate. If you want my bare motivation - I'm trying to keep bridges from being burned so that if Obama wins the nomination, his primary opponents don't go out and elect President Republican-Yet-to-be-Named over some minute sense of betrayal.


Shake?

El_Kabong

Deni wrote:

Well, I know what an autobiography is when I read one, but you are of course entitled to your stupid little opinion.

Just kidding.

why did he need 2?? did so much happen in between those 2 books that it required a 2nd 'autobiography'?

ppl keeps saying they learned a lot about his politics and stances in the book....

El_Kabong

RainDog wrote:

But against domestic spying and wiretap provisions. Not perfect, but reasonable.
Not that important to me. It would be nice to have credit card interest rates lower - but I don't use credit cards.

so you don't care he sided w/ the cc industry and not avg ppl?

RainDog wrote:

No it doesn't. It's a dumb platitude that basically means "I'm armed." And, as he told Dennis in the first debate, he has no plans of attacking Iran.

no,. it doesn't mean just 'i'm armed' it means 'if you make a nuke i will attack you' he has no plans outright but what did he say? if they had a nuke he would support attacking them, that doesn't require an immediate plan, it's still a threat and could very well happen, current plan or not

RainDog wrote:

His "trade advisor" isn't him. And apparently his trade advisor hasn't had much of an impact on his political positions, as such:
* Insist on labor and human rights standards for China trade. (Jul 2004)
* Fair trade should have tangible benefits for US. (Jun 2004)
* Voted YES on free trade agreement with Oman. (Jun 2006)
* Voted NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)
And from his own site (regarding this specific individual, in fact):
Obama has a strong pro-labor voting record. Obama voted against the Central American Free Trade Agreement and has said that NAFTA should be renegotiated. Obama has cosponsored many important bills to help workers, including: an increase in the minimum wage, and the Employee Free Choice Act. He also championed efforts in the Senate to help air traffic controllers engaged in a labor dispute with the Federal Aviation Administration

i'm aware they are different ppl, trust me...but why pck someone to advise you on issues you seem to be polar opposites on?? i'm sure someone will say to get all sides, but if you are strongly pro-choice would you pick someone strongly pro-life to be one of your maind advisors on abortion issues?

RainDog wrote:

I have family members who work for nuclear power plants in different parts of the country. Good to know he supports the family business.

I waiver on this issue. If we can find something safe to do with the radioactive byproducts, it would be green. And we're getting there. Technology is quite different now than in the 1970s.

However, I haven't really read his postion on this one.

the disposal is key and i would rather different energy alternatives than nukes

RainDog wrote:

And now he doesn't. You can call it a flip flop if you want, but the remarks that I know of were made two years ago - and tempered with a "we don't know what the situation will look like in six months to a year." Well, we're past that point, and now we know what it looks like.

does he still want to keep a permanent presence to let "iran and syria know we are serious"??

RainDog wrote:

To this I say, "So?" So he's a Democrat. So what?

and to this i say his own website is misleading when he says he supported the progressive democrats

RainDog wrote:

Yes, picking the president is a big deal. And when you don't compromise, the world is not simply "not ready for you" - the world will actively try to leave you behind. It really has no place for anti-social socialists. Forgive me for being a realist (not really much of one if you think about it), and I'm not trying to pick a fight either. If the above issues are so important to you, fine. This is the primary season, and you've picked your candidate. If you want my bare motivation - I'm trying to keep bridges from being burned so that if Obama wins the nomination, his primary opponents don't go out and elect President Republican-Yet-to-be-Named over some minute sense of betrayal.


Shake?

and i see no room for capitalists in socialists clothing

maybe i will be left behind...oh well, i don't believe in the free-market capitalism obama thinks will work wonders for the world, he just needs to look at the history of any country that has used it and see how it NEVER works, unless you mean from a 'squeezing them dry' sense....

i think the world is changing too fast, it is time for change, not just a tiny fraction, not '2 steps forward and 3 steps back' like i see in 99% of politicians.

so yes, we can shake and you can have your 'win' and bragging rights for 4-8 years, i will keep my intergrity and no worries about burning bridges, i never intend to cross it and it has nothing to do / a 'minute sense of betrayal', it has to do w/ i can not support those stances and i wouldn't vote for a republican instead...well i guess i shouldn't say i wouldn't ever...as it seems now i will cast my vote for none of the republicans running or for fred thompson, i will put my vote towards someone progressive

VictoryGin

El_Kabong wrote:

so yes, we can shake and you can have your 'win' and bragging rights for 4-8 years, i will keep my intergrity and no worries about burning bridges, i never intend to cross it

this is great, thanks. from now on when people ask why i support obama, my response can be: i get a 'win' and bragging rights, my integrity, and no burned bridges. perfect!

El_Kabong

Deni wrote:

Sorry Kabong! I didn't understand a word of that song! How can anybody listen to that shite! *giggles*

yeah, i didn't really like that version, either, it was a very early version w/ some different lyrics...teh lyrics are easy enough to decipher, however

Electioneering


I will stop, I will stop at nothing.
Say the right things when electioneering
I trust I can rely on your vote.

When I go forwards you go backwards
and somewhere we will meet.
When I go forwards you go backwards
and somewhere we will meet.
Ha ha ha

Riot shields, voodoo economics,
bullshit, bullshit
it's just business, cattle prods and the I.M.F.
I trust I can rely on your vote.

When I go forwards you go backwards
and somewhere we will meet.
When I go forwards you go backwards
and somewhere we will meet.

Abookamongstthemany

VictoryGin wrote:

this is great, thanks. from now on when people ask why i support obama, my response can be: i get a 'win' and bragging rights, my integrity, and no burned bridges. perfect!

Yeah, that would probably be the easiest way to explain it. Don't forget to add 'run of the mill politician' to that response. :D

VictoryGin

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Yeah, that would probably be the easiest way to explain it. Don't forget to add 'run of the mill politician' to that response. :D

nah, but i think i'll add 'he's not a career politician like dennis kucinich' or maybe 'he hasn't been in politics nearly as long as kucinich and has accomplished quite a lot'

sasoj

love obama ...
he is a hell of a guy

Abookamongstthemany

VictoryGin wrote:

nah, but i think i'll add 'he's not a career politician like dennis kucinich' or maybe 'he hasn't been in politics nearly as long as kucinich and has accomplished quite a lot'

I'm sure you're aware, I see career politicians as opportunists and public servants as one's that put the people they serve before their politicial aspirations and the money that comes along with them. But I can't say Obama doens't serve people...the credit card and nuclear energy industries must love him to bits.

RainDog

Look, if you splitters in the Popular Front of Judea don't stop causing a ruckus with us over here at the Judean People's Front, we're all going to get railroaded by those bastards in the People's Front of Judea. Then we might as well just give the whole thing over to the Romans. Is that what you want?

Abookamongstthemany

RainDog wrote:

Look, if you splitters in the Popular Front of Judea don't stop causing a ruckus with us over here at the Judean People's Front, we're all going to get railroaded by those bastards in the People's Front of Judea. Then we might as well just give the whole thing over to the Romans. Is that what you want?

Hey man, I just want something new.

Abookamongstthemany

RainDog wrote:

Look, if you splitters in the Popular Front of Judea don't stop causing a ruckus with us over here at the Judean People's Front, we're all going to get railroaded by those bastards in the People's Front of Judea. Then we might as well just give the whole thing over to the Romans. Is that what you want?

And stop with your scare tactics. I'm not voting against something...I voting for something new and better that I believe strongly in. Don't you guys realize that the Judean People's Front are really just Romans stringing you along?

VictoryGin

RainDog wrote:

Look, if you splitters in the Popular Front of Judea don't stop causing a ruckus with us over here at the Judean People's Front, we're all going to get railroaded by those bastards in the People's Front of Judea. Then we might as well just give the whole thing over to the Romans. Is that what you want?

all i know is it's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.

VictoryGin

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

And stop with your scare tactics. I'm not voting against something...I voting for something new and better that I believe strongly in. Don't you guys realize that the Judean People's Front are really just Romans stringing you along?

i hate the romans as much as anybody.