Fucking Bullshit

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  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    catefrances wrote:
    but one day when the world we know collapses into a smouldering heap a new, more equitable way will have to be found.

    that pretty much sums up your point of view to me...let's just say we vehemently disagree on just about everything :)

    as far as your 911 point...you're basically saying...U.S. foreign policy has been evil, and we have really pissed off some people, so these people acted on it...yet you are somehow not saying we got what we deserved? I'm not baiting you. I'm asking you to explain yourself. It sounds to me like you are saying like we got what we deserved, but don't have the guts to actually say it. That's understandable...liberalism is all about easy, emotional, catch phrase arguments rather than genuine debate :)
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    that pretty much sums up your point of view to me...let's just say we vehemently disagree on just about everything :)

    as far as your 911 point...you're basically saying...U.S. foreign policy has been evil, and we have really pissed off some people, so these people acted on it...yet you are somehow not saying we got what we deserved? I'm not baiting you. I'm asking you to explain yourself. It sounds to me like you are saying like we got what we deserved, but don't have the guts to actually say it. That's understandable...liberalism is all about easy, emotional, catch phrase arguments rather than genuine debate :)

    Or how about nobody deserves such a hideous act inflicted upon them but you can't exactly be surprised that your policies have came back to bite you on the ass?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Or how about nobody deserves such a hideous act inflicted upon them but you can't exactly be surprised that your policies have came back to bite you on the ass?

    or in other words, we got what we deserved. if that's what you believe, say it.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    that pretty much sums up your point of view to me...let's just say we vehemently disagree on just about everything :)

    as far as your 911 point...you're basically saying...U.S. foreign policy has been evil, and we have really pissed off some people, so these people acted on it...yet you are somehow not saying we got what we deserved? I'm not baiting you. I'm asking you to explain yourself. It sounds to me like you are saying like we got what we deserved, but don't have the guts to actually say it. That's understandable...liberalism is all about easy, emotional, catch phrase arguments rather than genuine debate :)

    no. all things being equal, if the united states government got what it deserved, your country would be a smouldering ruin like so many other countries that are recipients of your governments foreign policy. i'd prefer that wars both undeclared and declared be fought out between those whose policies precipitate such actions. instead it is the citizenry that pays the price. to say 9/11 was unprovoked is to be ignorant. it did not happen in a vacuum. but still i do not think 9/11 was deserved. and i repeat actions such as this never are. but it hardly came as big a shock to me as it did to you i imagine. i thought it was an extremely bold move and a foolish one. don't forget it wasn't the first time the twin towers were attacked by terrorists.
    to deserve something requires some sort of merit on the part of the recipient. there is nothing meritorious about US foreign policy. though if you give bad you should expect bad in return.
    and you can't just say we vehemently disagree on just about everything just because you've come to the conclusion that i am not a fan of capitalism. that is too dismissive.
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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    or in other words, we got what we deserved. if that's what you believe, say it.


    That would be the opposite of what I said.

    I don't believe in the death penalty but if you go on a murderous rampage in Texas don't surprised if you get it.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    catefrances wrote:
    no. all things being equal, if the united states government got what it deserved, your country would be a smouldering ruin like so many other countries that are recipients of your governments foreign policy.

    yeah, I figured that's where you were going...i'm just looking for honesty :)
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    That would be the opposite of what I said.

    I don't believe in the death penalty but if you go on a murderous rampage in Texas don't surprised if you get it.

    well, i wasn't quoting you...i was questioning another poster....but i can only assume that you believe that the we got what we deserve, right?
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    yeah, I figured that's where you were going...i'm just looking for honesty :)

    bullshit hawk. what you're looking for is validation for your pov. and where was it i was going exactly?

    and i said IF the united states government got what it deserved.
    but as it is, the people who died that day paid for your governments actions with their lives. and now the rest of the citizenry and others around the world are paying for it still. and yet no change to foreign policy. no acknowledgement of any kind. just carry on as usual and bury it in craters.
    but you know those who should be held accountable are the terrorists and the organisations that backed them.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    well, i wasn't quoting you...i was questioning another poster....but i can only assume that you believe that the we got what we deserve, right?


    You quoted me, too.

    And I'm not saying anything I don't believe. I don't care for the revenge business.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    catefrances wrote:
    bullshit hawk. what you're looking for is validation for your pov. and where was it i was going exactly?

    actually you got it upside down...you want to have it both ways...on the one hand you want to sympathize with the "random event that was 911, like a hurricane" but then you basically go on to say how we are to blame for our foreign policy. whatever, that may be a legitimate point of view...i'm just saying don't run from it...own it.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    You quoted me, too.

    not in this thread...or at not at least recently
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    actually "America got exactly what it deserved" is EXACTLY what you're saying, so why not own it?

    not even close. the more accurate simplification would be that "what america got could have been expected."
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    soulsinging wrote:
    not even close. the more accurate simplification would be that "what america got could have been expected."

    please explain.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    not in this thread...or at not at least recently

    post #164
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    post #164

    so i did.

    and again, maybe it's not the way you want to phrase it (mind you you, nor me will ever run for elective office) are bascially saying we got what we deserved. I can only assume that we should probably deserve more?
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    well, i wasn't quoting you...i was questioning another poster....but i can only assume that you believe that the we got what we deserve, right?

    good lord you're a jackass today. who's going for the easy, emotional catch phrase instead of intelligent debate tonight?

    do you deny that the us funded and trained bin laden before hanging him out to dry in afghanistan?
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    please explain.

    if you fuck people's countries up, regardless of how good your intentions were, they're going to take shots back. i dont believe american is an evil empire deserving terrorist attacks, but i believe we've made some mistakes and our refusal to admit them has angered a lot of people. thus, it is not surprising that something like 9/11 happened, even though we didnt deserve it.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    so i did.

    and again, maybe it's not the way you want to phrase it (mind you you, nor me will ever run for elective office) are bascially saying we got what we deserved. I can only assume that we should probably deserve more?


    no.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    soulsinging wrote:
    if you fuck people's countries up, regardless of how good your intentions were, they're going to take shots back. i dont believe american is an evil empire deserving terrorist attacks, but i believe we've made some mistakes and our refusal to admit them has angered a lot of people. thus, it is not surprising that something like 9/11 happened, even though we didnt deserve it.


    So you're saying we deserved it? :p
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    So you're saying we deserved it? :p

    yeah. kinda how any woman wearing a short skirt deserves to be raped.

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