Christmas Trees on government property are unconstitutional

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Comments

  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    And you know as well as I do that they would be met with fierce resistance. That's why it's best to leave them all out the way we are doing now. Go ahead and pretend all day that such tolerence exists. But I know it doesn't. There is freedom of religion not just freedom of religion for the majority.

    This is a perfect example of tolerance not existing.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    RainDog wrote:
    Which tree is that? The one the Christians endorse?

    No - the tree that the Pagans and others claim is not a Christian religious symbol. Or...the one that the Muslims do NOT endorse.

    You can look at it however you please.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    know1 wrote:
    Or why do the Pagans need to have their tree displayed on public property?

    well, all the pagans I know are trying to take over the world, and christmas trees are only the beginning...

    it's well known that pagans hate freedom and our way of life...

    DOWN WITH THE TREE....and Santa, too...!!!!
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    know1 wrote:
    No - the tree that the Pagans and others claim is not a religious symbol.
    Oh. Here I thought you were talking about those decorated pine trees I see everywhere.
  • RainDog wrote:
    You have every right to display whatever symbols you want. The government, however, does not it seems. And here I thought you were all for limiting government expression.

    I'm for limiting force, not expression.
    Yes it does. Especially when you consider that they have every right to do just that. My question is, why does it have to involve our public (I know how much you hate that word) institutions? Seems they're trying to make a point about who's welcome and who isn't.

    Be fair. It's pretty silly to suggest that those who believe it's ok that a nativity scene or Islamic crescent appear in a public space is "making a point about who's welcome and who isn't". You're basing that on nothing more than a form of xenophobia, which is really what you should be fighting, not endorsing.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    I'm for limiting force, not expression.



    Be fair. It's pretty silly to suggest that those who believe it's ok that a nativity scene or Islamic crescent appear in a public space is "making a point about who's welcome and who isn't". You're basing that on nothing more than a form of xenophobia, which is really what you should be fighting, not endorsing.
    It's also pretty silly to think that there isn't a conserted effort by the Christian right to establish Christianity as the only acceptable religion in the United States.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    RainDog wrote:
    Oh. Here I thought you were talking about those decorated pine trees I see everywhere.

    I was. That's the same tree that people say is a PAGAN symbol. Paganism is a religion, right?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    RainDog wrote:
    It's also pretty silly to think that there isn't a conserted effort by the Christian right to establish Christianity as the only acceptable religion in the United States.

    I don't see that as all. If so, there would be laws banning the other religions and even I, as a Christian, would be against that.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • RainDog wrote:
    It's also pretty silly to think that there isn't a conserted effort by the Christian right to establish Christianity as the only acceptable religion in the United States.

    Ok. Let's try this approach:

    Why is the above bad?
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    know1 wrote:
    I was. That's the same tree that people say is a PAGAN symbol. Paganism is a religion, right?

    I'm beginning to think this is more about you not being able to accept that the tree was indeed a pagan symbol and Christian took that symbol into their religion.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Collin wrote:
    I'm beginning to think this is more about you not being able to accept that the tree was indeed a pagan symbol and Christian took that symbol into their religion.

    It's mostly about the hypocrisy of banning Christian religious symbols from government buildings but allowing others.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    Ok. Let's try this approach:

    Why is the above bad?
    Because I've read the Bible, and I don't want a society that uses the Old Testament as a basis for policy and judicial decisions.

    There's also that pesky First Amendment thing.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    know1 wrote:
    I don't see that as all. If so, there would be laws banning the other religions and even I, as a Christian, would be against that.
    The laws come if they succeed. Religious symbology is just one of the opening battles.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    RainDog wrote:
    Because I've read the Bible, and I don't want a society that uses the Old Testament as a basis for policy and judicial decisions.

    There's also that pesky First Amendment thing.

    That has nothing to do with symbols, though.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    RainDog wrote:
    The laws come if they succeed. Religious symbology is just one of the opening battles.

    Kind of like the pot as a gateway drug reasoning, huh?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • RainDog wrote:
    Because I've read the Bible, and I don't want a society that uses the Old Testament as a basis for policy and judicial decisions.

    Good. Now, why don't you want that society?
    There's also that pesky First Amendment thing.

    Yes, there is. Which in turn you're violating by telling people what they can or can't say.
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    know1 wrote:
    It's mostly about the hypocrisy of banning Christian religious symbols from government buildings but allowing others.

    If they allow others I think they should allow Christian ones as well, it's as simple as that.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    know1 wrote:
    My point is, it's definitely a religious symbol - whether pagan or Christian, so why do we turn a blind eye to it when we raise such a stink about other symbols?

    Because we worship Santa Claus, not Jesus Christ. Christmas doesn't mean anything religious for 99% of people in this day and age. It means getting together with friends and family and sharing food and drink and gifts.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    know1 wrote:
    Kind of like the pot as a gateway drug reasoning, huh?
    I've never seen a pot-head arguing for a coked up nation.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    Good. Now, why don't you want that society?
    Have you ever picked up on the condesending nature of your posts? You're not the board's elementary school teacher, you know.


    Yes, there is. Which in turn you're violating by telling people what they can or can't say.
    Not true. People can say whatever they want, I won't stop them.
  • Fiece resistance?? Where's the "fierce resistance" against Muhammed being in the Suprement Court? Where's the "fierce resistance" against public celebrations of Ramadan? Where's the "fiece resistance" against menorahs in public places? The only fierce resistance I see is that against Christian symbols.

    Just read the Swearing on the Quran thread and others like it claiming Islam to be a religion of violence and hate.

    The best way to religious freedom is to ban religious expression in public spaces? Gotcha.

    Good because I was starting to think you thought the only ones who have this freedom were the majority. That's not what the Constitution states.

    First, the logic you and many of your counterparts subscribe to deem that the only rights a person have are based on majority choice. So I fail to see the consistency here.

    The Constitution is the difference because they were able to forsee this as being a problem. It is repressive to only represnt the religion of the majority. I'm sorry the Constitution doesn't guarantee you're freedom to not pay taxes.
    Secondly, I don't understand why you keep equating "freedom" with what these people see others doing? Do your posts violate my freedom, just because I don't share your perspective? Do my posts violate yours?

    This forum is not paid for by tax dollars and is not owned by the govt.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • WMAWMA Posts: 175
    ...
    Yes, there is. Which in turn you're violating by telling people what they can or can't say.


    When you are talking about taxpayer funded property, it isn't talking about 'people', it is government.

    It is government property, and the government can't promote a religion.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Because we worship Santa Claus, not Jesus Christ. Christmas doesn't mean anything religious for 99% of people in this day and age. It means getting together with friends and family and sharing food and drink and gifts.

    You're way off there. I think it means something religious to a much higher percentage than that.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    RainDog wrote:
    I've never seen a pot-head arguing for a coked up nation.

    Exactly. So why do you legislate not having symbols and use reasoning about not wanting laws that establish Christianity? We already have the constitution which bans those laws - but not the symbols. In my opinion, the fact that we disallow the Christian symbols is MORE unconstitutional than the fact that they are there.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1 wrote:
    This is a perfect example of tolerance not existing.

    Yes, that's right. I'm intolerant when all I want is equal representation and no religious beliefs forced on me by laws.


    Now go away and wait for ffg to post something you can say 'Exactly' or 'Bingo' to.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Ok - how about this, then.

    Why do we have the Christmas trees at the government buildings, but no symbols from the other religions or groups who celebrate a holiday at this time of year?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1 wrote:
    You're way off there. I think it means something religious to a much higher percentage than that.


    And it really shows!
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • know1 wrote:
    Ok - how about this, then.

    Why do we have the Christmas trees at the government buildings, but no symbols from the other religions or groups who celebrate a holiday at this time of year?

    Because the Christmas tree is likeable and can also be secular.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    know1 wrote:
    Exactly. So why do you legislate not having symbols and use reasoning about not wanting laws that establish Christianity? We already have the constitution which bans those laws - but not the symbols. In my opinion, the fact that we disallow the Christian symbols is MORE unconstitutional than the fact that they are there.

    well, this great country allows you to adorn your home and property with all the symbols you want....why do I have to see then at the courthouse, or any other government building...?

    do you think private business should display christian symbols...? are you upset that Walmart does have a huge cross hanging from the rafters...?
  • RainDog wrote:
    Have you ever picked up on the condesending nature of your posts?

    Yes.
    You're not the board's elementary school teacher, you know.

    I do know that.
    Not true. People can say whatever they want, I won't stop them.

    I'd like to say "I love Jesus" on a plaque in my courtroom. How do you feel about that?
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