I dont think McCain was freaking out, he saw it as a politcal ploy to "suspend" the campaign and show he was putting "country First" as he says on his campaign signs. I applaud the effort but I saw through it.
Obama also tried the "Main St" ploy to pander to Joe Public.
Look, the "bailout" whatever you want to call it, is OK by me as long as it doesnt reward the company for fucking up. Its set up to allow money to be available so if you need to buy a home or a car or any loan you can. People are going apeshit about it, I'm not guaranteeing its going to work, but what other ideas are out there. People don't realize how ugly things will get if this turns into the next "depression". All signs are pointing that way. China and Russia are loving this, even our allies that we have been able to bully, don't seem to be "coming to the rescue" , are they?
My suggestion was to allow the ARMs to stay at their "introductory" rates and to just extend the length of the loans. So if you were paying $700/month for the first 24 months and then it was going to jump to $1400 after, let those people keep paying 700$ and maybe extend the loan 5 more years. They stay in their house and money keeps flowing in. This should have happened over a year ago. But the banks were so greedy they would rather foreclose and you now see what happened to the banks and the loans. That in turn led to home prices falling lower and lower with more foreclosures in the market and everyone losing equity in their own homes. Add in energy costs + food/necessities and a corrupt "out for themselves" government and alot are fucked. And the root of all this is GREED. Those with the most wanted more and they wanted it from those with the least.
i live in canada and we just had a "debate party" there were about 17 of us and everyone was in agreeance that Mcain got smoked, anybody else that thinks different is a fucking idiot.
sounds like a fun Friday night , how do I get on that guestlist?
Anyone else notice the moderator's eyes were like pools of ink. Kinda creepy like he was possessed by a demonic presence. Sometimes high def television has its drawbacks I guess (or maybe he was actually possessed, I dunno).
I dont think McCain was freaking out, he saw it as a politcal ploy to "suspend" the campaign and show he was putting "country First" as he says on his campaign signs. I applaud the effort but I saw through it.
Obama also tried the "Main St" ploy to pander to Joe Public.
Look, the "bailout" whatever you want to call it, is OK by me as long as it doesnt reward the company for fucking up. Its set up to allow money to be available so if you need to buy a home or a car or any loan you can. People are going apeshit about it, I'm not guaranteeing its going to work, but what other ideas are out there. People don't realize how ugly things will get if this turns into the next "depression". All signs are pointing that way. China and Russia are loving this, even our allies that we have been able to bully, don't seem to be "coming to the rescue" , are they?
My suggestion was to allow the ARMs to stay at their "introductory" rates and to just extend the length of the loans. So if you were paying $700/month for the first 24 months and then it was going to jump to $1400 after, let those people keep paying 700$ and maybe extend the loan 5 more years. They stay in their house and money keeps flowing in. This should have happened over a year ago. But the banks were so greedy they would rather foreclose and you now see what happened to the banks and the loans. That in turn led to home prices falling lower and lower with more foreclosures in the market and everyone losing equity in their own homes. Add in energy costs + food/necessities and a corrupt "out for themselves" government and alot are fucked. And the root of all this is GREED. Those with the most wanted more and they wanted it from those with the least.
Everyone in DC is repeating the Main Street phrase lately, not just Obama.
Regardless of whether McCain's move was political or not, the situation required very delicate handling. So much on Wall Street is about confidence. When your potential future leader is running around changing his stance every other day, it doesn't speak well to maintaining stability on Wall Street or in the world for that matter.
I like your idea regarding mortgages. It seems like if they just worked at restructuring mortgages to increase stability and decrease forclosures, a lot of the problem would be solved. If that were the case, you would think that these securities that noone wants to buy now, might be more desirable. Who knows though, I'll be the first to admit I don't have a full understanding of the situation.
I just know something needs to be done. I think we can all agree on that.
I thought McCain held his own. I thought this was a debate where neither stood out and neither lost ground. I cant see how anyone says one guy beat the other. Both were mediocre IMO.
I felt Obama edged it and am quite surprised at how many polls called it for him quite decisively.
McCain seemed quite evasive, rarely answering a question straight. But his attacks prob chimed with his base.
Quite dispicable the whole "i have a bracelet" thing.
i live in canada and we just had a "debate party" there were about 17 of us and everyone was in agreeance that Mcain got smoked, anybody else that thinks different is a fucking idiot.
Is that what you boys to the north call a circle jerk these days? Hope you all got off. It sounds like you did.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Anyone else notice the moderator's eyes were like pools of ink. Kinda creepy like he was possessed by a demonic presence. Sometimes high def television has its drawbacks I guess (or maybe he was actually possessed, I dunno).
YESSSSSS... fuck yes! What the hell was THAT about?
And yes, the bracelet thing was quite appalling.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Quite dispicable the whole "i have a bracelet" thing.
Thank you for pointing that out. I almost turned off the TV at that point, I was so appalled. How exploitative can one get?
Don't know who won. Seemed like the same things were being said over and over.
Chicago 2000 : Chicago 2003 : Chicago 2006 : Summerfest 2006 : Lollapalooza 2007 : Chicago 2009 : Noblesville (Indy) 2010 : PJ20 (East Troy) 2011 : Wrigley Field 2013 : Milwaukee (Yield) 2014 : Wrigley Field 2016
I thought they both did well, but the seeing that the debate was supposed to be McCain's expertise, Obama showed him that he's well knowledgeable in that area and handed him a surprisingly well debated hour and a half, and pretty much nailed it. I didn't like though, how Obama kept telling John that he was correct at times. Don't do that next time Obama!
Obama did better but they both were trying to appeal to their base so I think it depends on your political views. McCain pretty much said the same thing over and over. He wouldn't change a damn thing but change is exactly what is needed. He seemed way too old!
It was very boring!
"...believe in lies...to get by...it's divine...whoa...oh, you know what its like..."
Obama just came across as more presidential and I guarantee he will win more worldwide respect for the US than McCain would!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I think it was a draw. McCain did make some good points, but without looking at Obama, he made himself look childish and condescending.
They both danced around the economic bailout topic. I was kind of disturbed by that, especially since they have been dealing with that non-stop for the past few days.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Most major polls I've seen about this debate (and granted, these instant reaction polls can sometimes be notoriously unreliable), but anyway, every poll I've seen has Obama winning the debate, with some polls as high as double digits. That surprised me; I thought Obama came off well, but I didn't think he came off that well.
It's funny watching what the news outlets uses as soundbites in the morning; like the part when Obama told McCain. "You thought it would be easy in Iraq, you were wrong. You said you knew where the weapons of mass destruction were. You were wrong, you said we'd be greeted as liberators, you were wrong, and you said there'd be no violence against Shi'a and Sunnis, and you were wrong." That floated by me in the debate last night, but it's pretty powerful looking at it again. In this case, McCain looks like he's being berated by a teacher and doesn't want to look at them.
Still, I'm surprised that people seem to think Obama did very well. If nothing else, hopefully he obliterated the "can he be Commander-in-Chief question?"
Obama peformed decent but certainly did not knock this one out of the park. It was however McCain's strongest subject, so the fact that he was able to go toe to toe with someone like McCain on this topic was very impressive.
I agree with the previous poster that Obama came across as more Presidential and McCain at times especially at the begining seemed caught off gaurd.
McCain was very condesending at times and I think this really hurt him. Despite his obvious expertise on the subject due to his 26 years of overseas relations...his condesending tone made him come across more as a threatend old fart lecturing the younger generation on how naive they are thinking that they could change the world.
McCain also didn't offer up any real solutions...In fact he pretty much ran staus quo with the current administrations strategy and didn't appear open to changing either strategy or policy with regards to Iraq.
Obama had that one really great moment where he looked McCain straight in the face and flat out called him out on the fact that The Bush administration as well as McCain himself were wrong on Iraq in the first place and no matter how well the surge has worked to date...it would have never been a reality had we not gotten into this mess in the first place.
I felt the above exchange was the game changer and ultimately what made Obama come ahead in this debate.
He had to drive the Iraq point home and I feel he did an excellent job of linking McCain to the failures of the Iraq war.
I think Obama's policy on Iraq is what is going to sway the voters in this election. He has to distance himself from McCain and Bush and pledge to bring the troops out of Iraq.
He did a hell of a job of doing so last night.
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
I'll say a draw, a bit surprised that McCain did better than I thought he would.
One thing though McCain Needed to take a look at his opponent, even hitmen take a look at their intended target.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I also thought it was a great debate. I'd say it was a tie, with a slight edge to Obama perhaps... but considering the fact that this was supposed to be McCain's strong point, and also considering that he needed a decisive win considering his position in the polls, the victory goes to Obama by default.
It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
I thought McCain held his own. I thought this was a debate where neither stood out and neither lost ground. I cant see how anyone says one guy beat the other. Both were mediocre IMO.
I see your point. But this was the one debate that mccain had to soundly defeat obama. If he wanted to regain momentum there could be no debate as to who won, let alone the majority of polls and popular opinion giving the edge to obama.
Further back and forth a wave will break on me, today...
McCain was such a ridiculous sight to behold that it was hard for Obama to not win that debate. McCain came across as a Republican robot and used the same old tired jokes he's being using for years now. I noticed this in the 2000 campaign too. By the time the primaries rolled around, I got tired of his increasingly trite rhetoric. But I voted for McCain back then because I thought he was the anti-Bush. I was a registered independent so I could vote in either primary. I liked Bill Bradley too (Gore's only opponent) but he had no chance of winning.
Obama, although not perfect, and he does stutter a bit when he begins a sentence... he still managed to deliver well thought-out statements, and used his time to touch on a lot more points than McCain did. Like others have said, he clearly knows what he's talking about, and he impressed me a little bit. Yes, there was a lot of typical Democratic rhetoric in his speech, and don't want to touch on subjects that have been discussed in length in other threads, but while I still have problems with him, I felt 10 times more comfortable listening to him than I did listening to that insane buffoon by his side.
So I just read this morning's CNN poll...
Among men, McCain had a slight edge, 46% to 43%.
Among women, McCain was losing so badly, that if only women could vote, he would be smart to just give up. It was 59% to 31%.
Of course, McCain is not smart, and apparently neither are the majority of men.
I think they were about equal. But, I do think the "game changer" everyone talks about didn't happen for McCain, who really is sliding in the polls. The latest Rasmussen has Obama up by 6. McCain needed a game changer to be able to call this debate for him, and he really didn't get it. I see a "literal tie," but an actual win for Obama, since McCain has done nothing to change momentum. I also think this will McCain's best shot at changing the momentum, since national security is his forte. Other subjects of other debates will by subject matter actually favor Obama, since he just plain knows more than McCain does about more things. McCain is a pretty much a one-trick pony.
he's gonna have to walk a fine line between ripping her a new asshole and not coming off as a bully. i say in moments of doubt, he should smack her down.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
he's gonna have to walk a fine line between ripping her a new asshole and not coming off as a bully. i say in moments of doubt, he should smack her down.
We'll see if that happens but don't be surprised if she holds her ground. She's on now, she's knows how to stir up a crowd when it's ALL scripted.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Comments
Obama also tried the "Main St" ploy to pander to Joe Public.
Look, the "bailout" whatever you want to call it, is OK by me as long as it doesnt reward the company for fucking up. Its set up to allow money to be available so if you need to buy a home or a car or any loan you can. People are going apeshit about it, I'm not guaranteeing its going to work, but what other ideas are out there. People don't realize how ugly things will get if this turns into the next "depression". All signs are pointing that way. China and Russia are loving this, even our allies that we have been able to bully, don't seem to be "coming to the rescue" , are they?
My suggestion was to allow the ARMs to stay at their "introductory" rates and to just extend the length of the loans. So if you were paying $700/month for the first 24 months and then it was going to jump to $1400 after, let those people keep paying 700$ and maybe extend the loan 5 more years. They stay in their house and money keeps flowing in. This should have happened over a year ago. But the banks were so greedy they would rather foreclose and you now see what happened to the banks and the loans. That in turn led to home prices falling lower and lower with more foreclosures in the market and everyone losing equity in their own homes. Add in energy costs + food/necessities and a corrupt "out for themselves" government and alot are fucked. And the root of all this is GREED. Those with the most wanted more and they wanted it from those with the least.
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
interesting... i would think Fox news would have mccain as the winner.
Everyone in DC is repeating the Main Street phrase lately, not just Obama.
Regardless of whether McCain's move was political or not, the situation required very delicate handling. So much on Wall Street is about confidence. When your potential future leader is running around changing his stance every other day, it doesn't speak well to maintaining stability on Wall Street or in the world for that matter.
I like your idea regarding mortgages. It seems like if they just worked at restructuring mortgages to increase stability and decrease forclosures, a lot of the problem would be solved. If that were the case, you would think that these securities that noone wants to buy now, might be more desirable. Who knows though, I'll be the first to admit I don't have a full understanding of the situation.
I just know something needs to be done. I think we can all agree on that.
McCain seemed quite evasive, rarely answering a question straight. But his attacks prob chimed with his base.
Quite dispicable the whole "i have a bracelet" thing.
http://www.myspace.com/thelastreel http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19604327965
Is that what you boys to the north call a circle jerk these days? Hope you all got off. It sounds like you did.
And yes, the bracelet thing was quite appalling.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Thank you for pointing that out. I almost turned off the TV at that point, I was so appalled. How exploitative can one get?
Don't know who won. Seemed like the same things were being said over and over.
It was very boring!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
They both danced around the economic bailout topic. I was kind of disturbed by that, especially since they have been dealing with that non-stop for the past few days.
McCain should be retired....he freaking 82....
Average male lifespan in the US is 86....
he's almost a corpse...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Cloris Leechman is 82....McCain is 72
It's funny watching what the news outlets uses as soundbites in the morning; like the part when Obama told McCain. "You thought it would be easy in Iraq, you were wrong. You said you knew where the weapons of mass destruction were. You were wrong, you said we'd be greeted as liberators, you were wrong, and you said there'd be no violence against Shi'a and Sunnis, and you were wrong." That floated by me in the debate last night, but it's pretty powerful looking at it again. In this case, McCain looks like he's being berated by a teacher and doesn't want to look at them.
Still, I'm surprised that people seem to think Obama did very well. If nothing else, hopefully he obliterated the "can he be Commander-in-Chief question?"
Obama peformed decent but certainly did not knock this one out of the park. It was however McCain's strongest subject, so the fact that he was able to go toe to toe with someone like McCain on this topic was very impressive.
I agree with the previous poster that Obama came across as more Presidential and McCain at times especially at the begining seemed caught off gaurd.
McCain was very condesending at times and I think this really hurt him. Despite his obvious expertise on the subject due to his 26 years of overseas relations...his condesending tone made him come across more as a threatend old fart lecturing the younger generation on how naive they are thinking that they could change the world.
McCain also didn't offer up any real solutions...In fact he pretty much ran staus quo with the current administrations strategy and didn't appear open to changing either strategy or policy with regards to Iraq.
Obama had that one really great moment where he looked McCain straight in the face and flat out called him out on the fact that The Bush administration as well as McCain himself were wrong on Iraq in the first place and no matter how well the surge has worked to date...it would have never been a reality had we not gotten into this mess in the first place.
I felt the above exchange was the game changer and ultimately what made Obama come ahead in this debate.
He had to drive the Iraq point home and I feel he did an excellent job of linking McCain to the failures of the Iraq war.
I think Obama's policy on Iraq is what is going to sway the voters in this election. He has to distance himself from McCain and Bush and pledge to bring the troops out of Iraq.
He did a hell of a job of doing so last night.
One thing though McCain Needed to take a look at his opponent, even hitmen take a look at their intended target.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Obama, although not perfect, and he does stutter a bit when he begins a sentence... he still managed to deliver well thought-out statements, and used his time to touch on a lot more points than McCain did. Like others have said, he clearly knows what he's talking about, and he impressed me a little bit. Yes, there was a lot of typical Democratic rhetoric in his speech, and don't want to touch on subjects that have been discussed in length in other threads, but while I still have problems with him, I felt 10 times more comfortable listening to him than I did listening to that insane buffoon by his side.
So I just read this morning's CNN poll...
Among men, McCain had a slight edge, 46% to 43%.
Among women, McCain was losing so badly, that if only women could vote, he would be smart to just give up. It was 59% to 31%.
Of course, McCain is not smart, and apparently neither are the majority of men.
Old enough to recognize a kid who's quick to call people idiots when one holds an opinion different from his own.
he's gonna have to walk a fine line between ripping her a new asshole and not coming off as a bully. i say in moments of doubt, he should smack her down.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
We'll see if that happens but don't be surprised if she holds her ground. She's on now, she's knows how to stir up a crowd when it's ALL scripted.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)