McCain was supposed to win this one, and by almost every account Obama won it. This was supposed to be McCain's debate.
I felt a little sorry for McCain at times. I don't dislike the man. I just think he got fucked by his party 8 years ago, and his ship has sailed. It's actually sort of sad.
Obama is the most presidential candidate we've had in a generation. Like a young, pro-choice Reagan with more color. God damn, I hope he wins.
San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]
One thing about McCain I noticed from last night's debate, and it may be why he's not doing so well in the polls from this debate, is this; he came off as condescending and unlikable. I think in part this was successful, because his constant condescencion put Obama back on his feet, having to defend his own positions and not directing the debate. I think McCain ever so slightly won last night. But he was by no stretch of the imagination a likable candidate, due to the things I was mentioning before. Now, being likable rarely wins a debate, but it usually helps win an election. Other than maybe George H.W. Bush, it may have been Nixon who was the last genuinely unlikable candidate for president. We'll see if the rest of the voters see that as well.
One thing about McCain I noticed from last night's debate, and it may be why he's not doing so well in the polls from this debate, is this; he came off as condescending and unlikable. I think in part this was successful, because his constant condescencion put Obama back on his feet, having to defend his own positions and not directing the debate. I think McCain ever so slightly won last night. But he was by no stretch of the imagination a likable candidate, due to the things I was mentioning before. Now, being likable rarely wins a debate, but it usually helps win an election. Other than maybe George H.W. Bush, it may have been Nixon who was the last genuinely unlikable candidate for president. We'll see if the rest of the voters see that as well.
I think it turns people off to be condescending and unlikeable. Not a good strategy for McCain.
San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]
thanks, you've went along way to prove my argument.
And you've proven mine - you're too quick to judge. I have proferred no opinion about the winner of the debate. And since I'm voting for neither McCain nor Obama, I have no vested interest in pronouncing a winner. The Obama fanboys (and girls) clearly think Obama won. The McCain fanboys (and girls) clearly think McCain won. The reasoned and objective posters in this thread have given opinions about why it was close and there may not be a winner.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
And you've proven mine - you're too quick to judge. I have proferred no opinion about the winner of the debate. And since I'm voting for neither McCain nor Obama, I have no vested interest in pronouncing a winner. The Obama fanboys (and girls) clearly think Obama won. The McCain fanboys (and girls) clearly think McCain won. The reasoned and objective posters in this thread have given opinions about why it was close and there may not be a winner.
because your not voting for neither Obama or McCain makes you "reasoned and objective".....thats your argument? If you have a third candidate in mind or if you dont like either candidate that much not to vote, in my mind that makes you neither "reasoned" or "objective".
And McCain should have hammered home the point that Obama would have the troops leave Iraq without victory; how could anyone expect that those troops would have the necessary morale to be effective in Afganistan??
Strongly disagree. There have been no 'winners' there. We shouldn' have been there. Am i naive to think that there won't be too many troops slapping each other on the back and about what a cool victory it was?
With that being said...are we "winning" the war now...and when I say winning I mean completing the original mission? Yes, I understand when people die it is a horrible thing but they did sign up to defend the country and in my mind that is what they are doing
There's an excellent blog site where returned soldiers and veterans post their stories and thoughts. It's heartbreaking. Hence why i said i don't think too much backslapping would be going on. http://2dinar.com/articles/92.html
and i get what you mean about completing the original 'mission'.
Obama is fighting (against) the war that began in 2003. McCain is fighting the war that needs to be fought now. It would be wonderful to have heard McCain tell Obama to get over it and move off his “we fought the wrong war” mantra, because it doesn’t matter anymore. And McCain should have hammered home the point that Obama would have the troops leave Iraq without victory; how could anyone expect that those troops would have the necessary morale to be effective in Afganistan??
This makes absolutely no sense. You can't tell someone to "get over" the dumbest foreign policy decision of the last twenty years if not longer. You keep saying "we've got to win in Iraq, we've got to win in Iraq." Tell me, what does that mean? How is it possible to "win" in a conventional sense? Those weapons of mass destruction,the reason we were there? Non-existent. "Get over it and move on from 'we fought the wrong war?' " This isn't like trying to forget that your favorite band made a crappy album; you don't just get to 'forget' and skip over the worst foreign policy decision you as a candidate ever made when you're running from office five years later.
McCain can't just press the reset button and say "OK, now we're fighting for democracy, not looking for weapons of mass destruction". When trying to get a job, you're judged by your past statements and actions. That McCain authorized and sent thousands of troops to die when they did not have to is not something you as a McCain supporter can forget when it becomes inconvenient.
because your not voting for neither Obama or McCain makes you "reasoned and objective".....thats your argument? If you have a third candidate in mind or if you dont like either candidate that much not to vote, in my mind that makes you neither "reasoned" or "objective".
You really need to work on your reading comprehension. "reasoned and objective" referred to other posters in this thread. There are a number of Obama supporters in this thread that were cautious about what they saw. There were a number of Obama supporters in this thread who feel that it was close, but since this was supposed to be McCain's debate, they gave the edge to Obama. There were a couple of McCain supporters in this thread and others who were not particularly pleased with their candidate. Those people seem pretty reasonable. Then there were a couple of obnoxious posters who claimed it was a slam dunk and everyone who didn't think so are idiots. Those posters can't be considered rational or reasoned.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
You really need to work on your reading comprehension. "reasoned and objective" referred to other posters in this thread. There are a number of Obama supporters in this thread that were cautious about what they saw. There were a number of Obama supporters in this thread who feel that it was close, but since this was supposed to be McCain's debate, they gave the edge to Obama. There were a couple of McCain supporters in this thread and others who were not particularly pleased with their candidate. Those people seem pretty reasonable. Then there were a couple of obnoxious posters who claimed it was a slam dunk and everyone who didn't think so are idiots. Those posters can't be considered rational or reasoned.
The debate was a sham. The questions were biased. the candidates are tools. Amerikan politics as usual.
Obama is fighting (against) the war that began in 2003. McCain is fighting the war that needs to be fought now. It would be wonderful to have heard McCain tell Obama to get over it and move off his “we fought the wrong war” mantra, because it doesn’t matter anymore. And McCain should have hammered home the point that Obama would have the troops leave Iraq without victory; how could anyone expect that those troops would have the necessary morale to be effective in Afganistan??
eh... what war needs to be fought now?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
am i teh only one who believes that the "debate" was rather bad. Obama i didn't think was that good. Mccain was not either. they kept to their points that we have heard already. i though the beginning was the worse. it didn't seem to me that both had a plan of what they wanted to do about the economy. i have to admit that i liked Obama on thh war but i also liked McCain and his knowledge of leaders around the world. that was just my opinion
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
Comments
I felt a little sorry for McCain at times. I don't dislike the man. I just think he got fucked by his party 8 years ago, and his ship has sailed. It's actually sort of sad.
Obama is the most presidential candidate we've had in a generation. Like a young, pro-choice Reagan with more color. God damn, I hope he wins.
I think it turns people off to be condescending and unlikeable. Not a good strategy for McCain.
I agree, but I think it remains to be seen if people saw it as that or if people saw it as McCain knowing more than Obama.
And you've proven mine - you're too quick to judge. I have proferred no opinion about the winner of the debate. And since I'm voting for neither McCain nor Obama, I have no vested interest in pronouncing a winner. The Obama fanboys (and girls) clearly think Obama won. The McCain fanboys (and girls) clearly think McCain won. The reasoned and objective posters in this thread have given opinions about why it was close and there may not be a winner.
McCain cannot help it. It's typical of a Republican to demonstrate such traits.
http://2dinar.com/articles/92.html
and i get what you mean about completing the original 'mission'.
Awesome! I know all about stuff like mash efficiency and all the nerdy terms you use. my bf has taught me gewd!
This makes absolutely no sense. You can't tell someone to "get over" the dumbest foreign policy decision of the last twenty years if not longer. You keep saying "we've got to win in Iraq, we've got to win in Iraq." Tell me, what does that mean? How is it possible to "win" in a conventional sense? Those weapons of mass destruction,the reason we were there? Non-existent. "Get over it and move on from 'we fought the wrong war?' " This isn't like trying to forget that your favorite band made a crappy album; you don't just get to 'forget' and skip over the worst foreign policy decision you as a candidate ever made when you're running from office five years later.
McCain can't just press the reset button and say "OK, now we're fighting for democracy, not looking for weapons of mass destruction". When trying to get a job, you're judged by your past statements and actions. That McCain authorized and sent thousands of troops to die when they did not have to is not something you as a McCain supporter can forget when it becomes inconvenient.
You really need to work on your reading comprehension. "reasoned and objective" referred to other posters in this thread. There are a number of Obama supporters in this thread that were cautious about what they saw. There were a number of Obama supporters in this thread who feel that it was close, but since this was supposed to be McCain's debate, they gave the edge to Obama. There were a couple of McCain supporters in this thread and others who were not particularly pleased with their candidate. Those people seem pretty reasonable. Then there were a couple of obnoxious posters who claimed it was a slam dunk and everyone who didn't think so are idiots. Those posters can't be considered rational or reasoned.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)