live msnbc poll: do you believe in 9/11 conspiracies?

Abookamongstthemany

chopitdown wrote:

I'm not even going to read this

Figures.;)

sonicreducer

jlew24asu wrote:

you always mention the PNAC. they are a controversial group promoting america dominance. what proof do you have they were involved in 9/11. other then you dont like the group. that doesnt count

key members of that group make big decisions for this country. also, i was only trying to make him realize that this country isn't as innocent as they seem. what about operation northwoods? i just don't buy the fact that people don't think the gov't could have been involved,... look at history. money and power can turn a good man's heart black. and i personally haven't done enough research to prove their involvement in 9/11. but i will continue to research and doubt the official story until i or they fill in the holes.

ledvedderman

sonicreducer wrote:

key members of that group make big decisions for this country. also, i was only trying to make him realize that this country isn't as innocent as they seem. what about operation northwoods? i just don't buy the fact that people don't think the gov't could have been involved,... look at history. money and power can turn a good man's heart black. and i personally haven't done enough research to prove their involvement in 9/11. but i will continue to research and doubt the official story until i or they fill in the holes.

VERY well put. I think that can go for all the 9/11 skeptics. No one wants to believe their government would be involved, and I am not 100% certain they were. However, would someone who was innocent do the things this government did to try to stop the 9/11 commission from being created? Suspicious activities like that just fuel the theories, and for good reason.

"Just give us the truth/We can handle the truth"

jlew24asu

sonicreducer wrote:

key members of that group make big decisions for this country. also, i was only trying to make him realize that this country isn't as innocent as they seem. what about operation northwoods? i just don't buy the fact that people don't think the gov't could have been involved,... look at history. money and power can turn a good man's heart black. and i personally haven't done enough research to prove their involvement in 9/11. but i will continue to research and doubt the official story until i or they fill in the holes.

operation northwoods is and was a hoirrble thing made by a few rogue generals and the joint chief of staff. it called for downing of an "unmanned" aircraft, and sinking of an american ship near gauntanimo bay. both horrible acts but as bad as 9/11? should I recall what actually happened on 9/11? I dont think I do. thankfully the plan was rejected down by intelligent people. that was 60 years ago.

if you want to compare the two that would mean president bush approved a plan like 9/11. or someone at very high levels would see plan that shows 4 planes going into 2 of americans LARGEST icons, our center for defense, and the capitol building, and approve it. think about it, George Bush, Donald Rumsfield, Colin Powell, Dick Cheny.....some or all of these people would know or approve of this happening. you honestly believe they are capable of doing that? really? sorry I don't. I have much more faith in my fellow americans and will not defend or feel sorry for obl and el queda,


all the buildings hit or wanted to be hit are icons of American Power. Why would the PNAC want to destroy that? makes no sense.


I have never met osama bin laden. I saw video of him admitting to it. I have seen tons of evidence presented to me by several several sources. yes, some of which was the "main stream" media. can he be convicted in a court of law? yes I absolutly believe that. cant wait till we catch him or better yet kill him.

ledvedderman

jlew24asu wrote:

operation northwoods is and was a hoirrble thing made by a few rogue generals and the joint chief of staff. it called for downing of an "unmanned" aircraft, and sinking of an american ship near gauntanimo bay. both horrible acts but as bad as 9/11? should I recall what actually happened on 9/11? I dont think I do. thankfully the plan was rejected down by intelligent people. that was 60 years ago.

if you want to compare the two that would mean president bush approved a plan like 9/11. or someone at very high levels would see plan that shows 4 planes going into 2 of americans LARGEST icons, our center for defense, and the capitol building, and approve it. think about it, George Bush, Donald Rumsfield, Colin Powell, Dick Cheny.....some or all of these people would know or approve of this happening. you honestly believe they are capable of doing that? really? sorry I don't. I have much more faith in my fellow americans and will not defend or feel sorry for obl and el queda,


all the buildings hit or wanted to be hit are icons of American Power. Why would the PNAC want to destroy that? makes no sense.


I have never met osama bin laden. I saw video of him admitting to it. I have seen tons of evidence presented to me by several several sources. yes, some of which was the "main stream" media. can he be convicted in a court of law? yes I absolutly believe that. cant wait till we catch him or better yet kill him.

Do you not believe that there could be a couple rogue generals and other members of the Bush cabinet? There could be in any administration, and with the history of Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Cheney why wouldn't anyone think they could be the rogue members of this administration.

I do disagree with you on hoping to see Bin Laden killed? What would that do in the long run? For one, he will automatically be lifted to martyrdom. Second, there will just be someone waiting in line to take over when he is gone. I would much rather see him in an orange jumpsuit than dead.

ledvedderman

jlew24asu wrote:

all the buildings hit or wanted to be hit are icons of American Power. Why would the PNAC want to destroy that? makes no sense.

Why would the PNAC want to destroy that? You don't understand the process of propaganda too well do you. What would make a bigger impact on the American public than an American icon being brought to the groung?

jlew24asu

ledvedderman wrote:

Do you not believe that there could be a couple rogue generals and other members of the Bush cabinet? There could be in any administration, and with the history of Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Cheney why wouldn't anyone think they could be the rogue members of this administration.

I do disagree with you on hoping to see Bin Laden killed? What would that do in the long run? For one, he will automatically be lifted to martyrdom. Second, there will just be someone waiting in line to take over when he is gone. I would much rather see him in an orange jumpsuit than dead.

I dont see any of the people you mentioned approving a plan to have 4 huge jetliners crash into such big american icons. just becuase you hate the current adminisrtation and everyone in it doesnt mean they give a green light to killing and destroying innocent americans and HUGE american icons.

they would sign off on attacking the penetgon? rumsfield was in the penetgon as well as almost all the top generals. they would approve of a plan to have a plane (or missle as some believe) to crash into the same office they are working in.

or the US capitol building? destroy priceless artifacts of american history and kill as many lawmakers/leaders as possible?


or the WTC. destroy the very symbols of American Financial Dominace.


why?

jlew24asu

ledvedderman wrote:

Why would the PNAC want to destroy that? You don't understand the process of propaganda too well do you. What would make a bigger impact on the American public than an American icon being brought to the groung?

no I guess I dont. i'm so far off in my theories, almost makes me look foolish. huh

Carlos D

I think people in future will laugh at how pathetic the conspiray theorists are.

jlew24asu

ledvedderman wrote:

Why would the PNAC want to destroy that? You don't understand the process of propaganda too well do you. What would make a bigger impact on the American public than an American icon being brought to the groung?

I wish you would explain it to me. the PNAC wants american dominance. they dont want to make a impact on the american public. so again, why would an organization who wants american dominance destroy the countries largest financial and military icons?

Abookamongstthemany

jlew24asu wrote:

I wish you would explain it to me. the PNAC wants american dominance. they dont want to make a impact on the american public. so again, why would an organization who wants american dominance destroy the countries largest financial and military icons?

'

Because icons are merely symbols. To have dominance in a democracry you must take seige of the public's opinion and mold it into a uniformed view that suits your agenda.

jlew24asu

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

'

Because icons are merely symbols. To have dominance in a democracry you must take seige of the public's opinion and mold it into a uniformed view that suits your agenda.

sorry, destroying the best american icons does not fit the agenda of an organization that wants american dominance.

if they wanted america to be united after an attack on our soil, I guess they did a good job.

DPrival78

jlew24asu wrote:

I wish you would explain it to me. the PNAC wants american dominance. they dont want to make a impact on the american public.

of course they do. who do you think is going to pay for, and send their kids to die in, their wars?

jlew24asu wrote:

so again, why would an organization who wants american dominance destroy the countries largest financial and military icons?

the idea of "america" means nothing to these people (as we speak our beloved administration is in the process of erasing our borders with canada and mexico, and forming the "north american union".) these people are globalist cocksuckers looking to control the world's population and economy. knocking down a couple of half empty office buildings and an easy replaceable wall of the pentagon is nothing for them. those are only symbols in our eyes. they were high profile targets - all part of the real shock and awe campaign directed at the american public, to buy into their wars of imperialism.

Abookamongstthemany

DPrival78 wrote:

of course they do. who do you think is going to pay for, and send their kids to die in, their wars?



the idea of "america" means nothing to these people (as we speak our beloved administration is in the process of erasing our borders with canada and mexico, and forming the "north american union".) these people are globalist cocksuckers looking to control the world's population and economy. knocking down a couple of half empty office buildings and an easy replaceable wall of the pentagon is nothing for them. those are only symbols in our eyes. they were high profile targets - all part of the real shock and awe campaign directed at the american public, to buy into their wars of imperialism.

Thank you. This is stated much better than my attempt.

jlew24asu

DPrival78 wrote:

of course they do. who do you think is going to pay for, and send their kids to die in, their wars?



the idea of "america" means nothing to these people (as we speak our beloved administration is in the process of erasing our borders with canada and mexico, and forming the "north american union".) these people are globalist cocksuckers looking to control the world's population and economy. knocking down a couple of half empty office buildings and an easy replaceable wall of the pentagon is nothing for them. those are only symbols in our eyes. they were high profile targets - all part of the real shock and awe campaign directed at the american public, to buy into their wars of imperialism.

this is becoming laughable. half empty office bulding? is that an attempt to downplay the significance of the towers? easily replaceable hole in the wall of the penetgon? are you serious? wait, isnt the administration trying to build a wall on the mexican border?

you really are convinced, bush, or people close to him, sat in a room and planned out the sept 11th attacks.

Abookamongstthemany

jlew24asu wrote:

this is becoming laughable. half empty office bulding? is that an attempt to downplay the significance of the towers? easily replaceable hole in the wall of the penetgon? are you serious? wait, isnt the administration trying to build a wall on the mexican border?

you really are convinced, bush, or people close to him, sat in a room and planned out the sept 11th attacks.

are you convinced some guy in a cave did?

jlew24asu

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

are you convinced some guy in a cave did?

positively yes. his name is Osama bin laden who heads the worldwide terrorists organization called el queda. that guy? yes.

Abookamongstthemany

jlew24asu wrote:

positively yes. his name is Osama bin laden who heads the worldwide terrorists organization called el queda. that guy? yes.

There are also some guys here who are responsible for worldwide terrorism. People don't call their's terrorism, though but don't let that technicality throw you off. If you are trying to prove capabilities of large scale murder then either example fit the bill.

jlew24asu

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

There are also some guys here who are responsible for worldwide terrorism. People don't call their's terrorism, though but don't let that technicality throw you off. If you are trying to prove capabilities of large scale murder then either example fit the bill.

some guys? who Bush/cheney? you hate them, you think osama is a better person then our president I got it. did you have a point?

so many el queda sympathizers here. well thankfully not many just you and a few others. thankfully

DPrival78

jlew24asu wrote:

this is becoming laughable. half empty office bulding? is that an attempt to downplay the significance of the towers?

to the people who did 9/11, the towers were insignificant. and, the towers were costing their owners much more money than they brought in because they were no were near full capacity. but of course, the new owner larry silverstein made out ok in the end..

jlew24asu wrote:

easily replaceable hole in the wall of the penetgon? are you serious?

yes i am quite serious. the "hijackers" were aimed right for don rumsfelds office door on their approach to the pentagon. but, instead of ramming into his side of the building, they flew over the pentagon, made a 270 degree turn (about which air traffic controllers said it resembled a manuever by a military aircraft, not a passenger jet), flew 2 inches off of the ground - without scratching it - and slammed into the first floor of the only side of the pentagon which was just renovated with reinforced concrete and blast proof windows. what are the fucking odds of that?

not only did this plane pull off this spectacular manuever, but it was done by a pilot - hani hanjour - who had never flown a jet before and who was denied went tried to rent a 2 seat cessna just weeks before the attacks. sound fishy to you at all?

jlew24asu wrote:

wait, isnt the administration trying to build a wall on the mexican border?

i doubt it. here's a story, from a conservative website no less, about the administration erasing our borders:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965

jlew24asu wrote:

you really are convinced, bush, or people close to him, sat in a room and planned out the sept 11th attacks.

bush isn't capable of planning what to have for breakfast. he is far down the food chain. he's just the idiot they put on tv. but people close to him? absolutely. people like cheney, rumsfeld, and probably more importantly people like paul wolfowitz and richard perle.. it wouldn't surprise me if those are a few of the key players.

but all of that isn't really the point. the point is, the official story is horseshit. it's a coverup to protect those who were actually involved. i don't know who exactly did it, but i'm 105% sure that it didn't go down as we've been told.