live msnbc poll: do you believe in 9/11 conspiracies?

13

Comments

  • chopitdown wrote:
    I'm not even going to read this ;)

    Figures.;)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    you always mention the PNAC. they are a controversial group promoting america dominance. what proof do you have they were involved in 9/11. other then you dont like the group. that doesnt count


    key members of that group make big decisions for this country. also, i was only trying to make him realize that this country isn't as innocent as they seem. what about operation northwoods? i just don't buy the fact that people don't think the gov't could have been involved,... look at history. money and power can turn a good man's heart black. and i personally haven't done enough research to prove their involvement in 9/11. but i will continue to research and doubt the official story until i or they fill in the holes.
    you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
    ~Ron Burgundy
  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 7,761
    key members of that group make big decisions for this country. also, i was only trying to make him realize that this country isn't as innocent as they seem. what about operation northwoods? i just don't buy the fact that people don't think the gov't could have been involved,... look at history. money and power can turn a good man's heart black. and i personally haven't done enough research to prove their involvement in 9/11. but i will continue to research and doubt the official story until i or they fill in the holes.

    VERY well put. I think that can go for all the 9/11 skeptics. No one wants to believe their government would be involved, and I am not 100% certain they were. However, would someone who was innocent do the things this government did to try to stop the 9/11 commission from being created? Suspicious activities like that just fuel the theories, and for good reason.

    "Just give us the truth/We can handle the truth"
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    key members of that group make big decisions for this country. also, i was only trying to make him realize that this country isn't as innocent as they seem. what about operation northwoods? i just don't buy the fact that people don't think the gov't could have been involved,... look at history. money and power can turn a good man's heart black. and i personally haven't done enough research to prove their involvement in 9/11. but i will continue to research and doubt the official story until i or they fill in the holes.


    operation northwoods is and was a hoirrble thing made by a few rogue generals and the joint chief of staff. it called for downing of an "unmanned" aircraft, and sinking of an american ship near gauntanimo bay. both horrible acts but as bad as 9/11? should I recall what actually happened on 9/11? I dont think I do. thankfully the plan was rejected down by intelligent people. that was 60 years ago.

    if you want to compare the two that would mean president bush approved a plan like 9/11. or someone at very high levels would see plan that shows 4 planes going into 2 of americans LARGEST icons, our center for defense, and the capitol building, and approve it. think about it, George Bush, Donald Rumsfield, Colin Powell, Dick Cheny.....some or all of these people would know or approve of this happening. you honestly believe they are capable of doing that? really? sorry I don't. I have much more faith in my fellow americans and will not defend or feel sorry for obl and el queda,


    all the buildings hit or wanted to be hit are icons of American Power. Why would the PNAC want to destroy that? makes no sense.


    I have never met osama bin laden. I saw video of him admitting to it. I have seen tons of evidence presented to me by several several sources. yes, some of which was the "main stream" media. can he be convicted in a court of law? yes I absolutly believe that. cant wait till we catch him or better yet kill him.
  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 7,761
    jlew24asu wrote:
    operation northwoods is and was a hoirrble thing made by a few rogue generals and the joint chief of staff. it called for downing of an "unmanned" aircraft, and sinking of an american ship near gauntanimo bay. both horrible acts but as bad as 9/11? should I recall what actually happened on 9/11? I dont think I do. thankfully the plan was rejected down by intelligent people. that was 60 years ago.

    if you want to compare the two that would mean president bush approved a plan like 9/11. or someone at very high levels would see plan that shows 4 planes going into 2 of americans LARGEST icons, our center for defense, and the capitol building, and approve it. think about it, George Bush, Donald Rumsfield, Colin Powell, Dick Cheny.....some or all of these people would know or approve of this happening. you honestly believe they are capable of doing that? really? sorry I don't. I have much more faith in my fellow americans and will not defend or feel sorry for obl and el queda,


    all the buildings hit or wanted to be hit are icons of American Power. Why would the PNAC want to destroy that? makes no sense.


    I have never met osama bin laden. I saw video of him admitting to it. I have seen tons of evidence presented to me by several several sources. yes, some of which was the "main stream" media. can he be convicted in a court of law? yes I absolutly believe that. cant wait till we catch him or better yet kill him.

    Do you not believe that there could be a couple rogue generals and other members of the Bush cabinet? There could be in any administration, and with the history of Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Cheney why wouldn't anyone think they could be the rogue members of this administration.

    I do disagree with you on hoping to see Bin Laden killed? What would that do in the long run? For one, he will automatically be lifted to martyrdom. Second, there will just be someone waiting in line to take over when he is gone. I would much rather see him in an orange jumpsuit than dead.
  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 7,761
    jlew24asu wrote:


    all the buildings hit or wanted to be hit are icons of American Power. Why would the PNAC want to destroy that? makes no sense.


    Why would the PNAC want to destroy that? You don't understand the process of propaganda too well do you. What would make a bigger impact on the American public than an American icon being brought to the groung?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Do you not believe that there could be a couple rogue generals and other members of the Bush cabinet? There could be in any administration, and with the history of Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Cheney why wouldn't anyone think they could be the rogue members of this administration.

    I do disagree with you on hoping to see Bin Laden killed? What would that do in the long run? For one, he will automatically be lifted to martyrdom. Second, there will just be someone waiting in line to take over when he is gone. I would much rather see him in an orange jumpsuit than dead.


    I dont see any of the people you mentioned approving a plan to have 4 huge jetliners crash into such big american icons. just becuase you hate the current adminisrtation and everyone in it doesnt mean they give a green light to killing and destroying innocent americans and HUGE american icons.

    they would sign off on attacking the penetgon? rumsfield was in the penetgon as well as almost all the top generals. they would approve of a plan to have a plane (or missle as some believe) to crash into the same office they are working in.

    or the US capitol building? destroy priceless artifacts of american history and kill as many lawmakers/leaders as possible?


    or the WTC. destroy the very symbols of American Financial Dominace.


    why?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Why would the PNAC want to destroy that? You don't understand the process of propaganda too well do you. What would make a bigger impact on the American public than an American icon being brought to the groung?


    no I guess I dont. i'm so far off in my theories, almost makes me look foolish. huh
  • Carlos DCarlos D Posts: 638
    I think people in future will laugh at how pathetic the conspiray theorists are.
    It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
    But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

    www.bebo.com/pearljam06
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Why would the PNAC want to destroy that? You don't understand the process of propaganda too well do you. What would make a bigger impact on the American public than an American icon being brought to the groung?


    I wish you would explain it to me. the PNAC wants american dominance. they dont want to make a impact on the american public. so again, why would an organization who wants american dominance destroy the countries largest financial and military icons?
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    I wish you would explain it to me. the PNAC wants american dominance. they dont want to make a impact on the american public. so again, why would an organization who wants american dominance destroy the countries largest financial and military icons?
    '

    Because icons are merely symbols. To have dominance in a democracry you must take seige of the public's opinion and mold it into a uniformed view that suits your agenda.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    '

    Because icons are merely symbols. To have dominance in a democracry you must take seige of the public's opinion and mold it into a uniformed view that suits your agenda.


    sorry, destroying the best american icons does not fit the agenda of an organization that wants american dominance.

    if they wanted america to be united after an attack on our soil, I guess they did a good job.
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I wish you would explain it to me. the PNAC wants american dominance. they dont want to make a impact on the american public.

    of course they do. who do you think is going to pay for, and send their kids to die in, their wars?
    jlew24asu wrote:

    so again, why would an organization who wants american dominance destroy the countries largest financial and military icons?

    the idea of "america" means nothing to these people (as we speak our beloved administration is in the process of erasing our borders with canada and mexico, and forming the "north american union".) these people are globalist cocksuckers looking to control the world's population and economy. knocking down a couple of half empty office buildings and an easy replaceable wall of the pentagon is nothing for them. those are only symbols in our eyes. they were high profile targets - all part of the real shock and awe campaign directed at the american public, to buy into their wars of imperialism.
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • DPrival78 wrote:
    of course they do. who do you think is going to pay for, and send their kids to die in, their wars?



    the idea of "america" means nothing to these people (as we speak our beloved administration is in the process of erasing our borders with canada and mexico, and forming the "north american union".) these people are globalist cocksuckers looking to control the world's population and economy. knocking down a couple of half empty office buildings and an easy replaceable wall of the pentagon is nothing for them. those are only symbols in our eyes. they were high profile targets - all part of the real shock and awe campaign directed at the american public, to buy into their wars of imperialism.

    Thank you. This is stated much better than my attempt.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    DPrival78 wrote:
    of course they do. who do you think is going to pay for, and send their kids to die in, their wars?



    the idea of "america" means nothing to these people (as we speak our beloved administration is in the process of erasing our borders with canada and mexico, and forming the "north american union".) these people are globalist cocksuckers looking to control the world's population and economy. knocking down a couple of half empty office buildings and an easy replaceable wall of the pentagon is nothing for them. those are only symbols in our eyes. they were high profile targets - all part of the real shock and awe campaign directed at the american public, to buy into their wars of imperialism.


    this is becoming laughable. half empty office bulding? is that an attempt to downplay the significance of the towers? easily replaceable hole in the wall of the penetgon? are you serious? wait, isnt the administration trying to build a wall on the mexican border?

    you really are convinced, bush, or people close to him, sat in a room and planned out the sept 11th attacks.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    this is becoming laughable. half empty office bulding? is that an attempt to downplay the significance of the towers? easily replaceable hole in the wall of the penetgon? are you serious? wait, isnt the administration trying to build a wall on the mexican border?

    you really are convinced, bush, or people close to him, sat in a room and planned out the sept 11th attacks.

    are you convinced some guy in a cave did?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    are you convinced some guy in a cave did?


    positively yes. his name is Osama bin laden who heads the worldwide terrorists organization called el queda. that guy? yes.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    positively yes. his name is Osama bin laden who heads the worldwide terrorists organization called el queda. that guy? yes.

    There are also some guys here who are responsible for worldwide terrorism. People don't call their's terrorism, though but don't let that technicality throw you off. If you are trying to prove capabilities of large scale murder then either example fit the bill.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    There are also some guys here who are responsible for worldwide terrorism. People don't call their's terrorism, though but don't let that technicality throw you off. If you are trying to prove capabilities of large scale murder then either example fit the bill.


    some guys? who Bush/cheney? you hate them, you think osama is a better person then our president I got it. did you have a point?

    so many el queda sympathizers here. well thankfully not many just you and a few others. thankfully
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    jlew24asu wrote:
    this is becoming laughable. half empty office bulding? is that an attempt to downplay the significance of the towers?

    to the people who did 9/11, the towers were insignificant. and, the towers were costing their owners much more money than they brought in because they were no were near full capacity. but of course, the new owner larry silverstein made out ok in the end..
    jlew24asu wrote:
    easily replaceable hole in the wall of the penetgon? are you serious?

    yes i am quite serious. the "hijackers" were aimed right for don rumsfelds office door on their approach to the pentagon. but, instead of ramming into his side of the building, they flew over the pentagon, made a 270 degree turn (about which air traffic controllers said it resembled a manuever by a military aircraft, not a passenger jet), flew 2 inches off of the ground - without scratching it - and slammed into the first floor of the only side of the pentagon which was just renovated with reinforced concrete and blast proof windows. what are the fucking odds of that?

    not only did this plane pull off this spectacular manuever, but it was done by a pilot - hani hanjour - who had never flown a jet before and who was denied went tried to rent a 2 seat cessna just weeks before the attacks. sound fishy to you at all?
    jlew24asu wrote:
    wait, isnt the administration trying to build a wall on the mexican border?

    i doubt it. here's a story, from a conservative website no less, about the administration erasing our borders:
    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you really are convinced, bush, or people close to him, sat in a room and planned out the sept 11th attacks.

    bush isn't capable of planning what to have for breakfast. he is far down the food chain. he's just the idiot they put on tv. but people close to him? absolutely. people like cheney, rumsfeld, and probably more importantly people like paul wolfowitz and richard perle.. it wouldn't surprise me if those are a few of the key players.

    but all of that isn't really the point. the point is, the official story is horseshit. it's a coverup to protect those who were actually involved. i don't know who exactly did it, but i'm 105% sure that it didn't go down as we've been told.
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    DPrival78 wrote:


    bush isn't capable of planning what to have for breakfast. he is far down the food chain. he's just the idiot they put on tv. but people close to him? absolutely. people like cheney, rumsfeld, and probably more importantly people like paul wolfowitz and richard perle.. it wouldn't surprise me if those are a few of the key players.

    .


    ok now I got it. cheney, rumsfield, and others sat in a room and planned the 9/11 attacks. my suggestion to you is leave the country and dont come back. you are better off joining el queda and taking up arms against who you believe to be the true terrorists.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    some guys? who Bush/cheney? you hate them, you think osama is a better person then our president I got it. did you have a point?

    so many el queda sympathizers here. well thankfully not many just you and a few others. thankfully

    I equated them as the same. No sympathy was expressed for either. Please try to refrain from putting words in my mouth. Sorry you missed the point.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    jlew24asu wrote:
    ok now I got it. cheney, rumsfield, and others sat in a room and planned the 9/11 attacks. my suggestion to you is leave the country and dont come back. you are better off joining el queda and taking up arms against who you believe to be the true terrorists.


    instead of making pointless comments about me, why don't you argue why you disagree with me? what do you think about what i said about the pentagon? does that really sound plausible - a guy who couldn't rent a cessna flew a 767 with the precison of a military jet? why didn't he dump it into rummy's side of the building? why go dangerously out of his way to hit the one reinforced wall? why not hit the white house, which they flew past on the way down? (which begs the question.. WHERE THE FUCK WERE OUR AIR DEFENSES??? did osama shut them down too??)

    what about your boy bush's push for the north american union? you think he cares so much about you and your country.. based on what??

    please, argue your side. give me evidence to pin this on osama.. trust me, i would feel much better about things if this wasn't an inside job.
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    I recently watched a PBS production called "Building on Ground Zero"

    The director of NIST is interviewed and he says the buildings didn't pancake as they had initially thought. Rather the trusses bowed and caused the attached perimeter columns to buckle inwards causing the collapse.

    This had me convinced at first. But a few hours later I remembered a few things. The multiple explosion sounds the smoke rising from the lobby. None of that fits into that explanation. They are saying the buildings were find until the trusses bowed and that was immediately at the point of collapse.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I recently watched a PBS production called "Building on Ground Zero"

    The director of NIST is interviewed and he says the buildings didn't pancake as they had initially thought. Rather the trusses bowed and caused the attached perimeter columns to buckle inwards causing the collapse.

    This had me convinced at first. But a few hours later I remembered a few things. The multiple explosion sounds the smoke rising from the lobby. None of that fits into that explanation. They are saying the buildings were find until the trusses bowed and that was immediately at the point of collapse.

    you're right it doesn't mesh. and if that was really the case, did these trusses all bow and break at a speed so fast that the buildings were gone in 10 seconds each? 10 floors of a steel and concrete skyscraper turned to dust in a second.. where is the resistance?
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    DPrival78 wrote:
    you're right it doesn't mesh. and if that was really the case, did these trusses all bow and break at a speed so fast that the buildings were gone in 10 seconds each? 10 floors of a steel and concrete skyscraper turned to dust in a second.. where is the resistance?

    Well one thing they pointed out was the OKC bombing dropped the building in 3 seconds. But that was a case where the main supports were destroyed.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • hi there.
    i think that some of you are not looking all around them but only at whats in front of them.
    look at the hole pic.... if u lived outside of the us without having your corrupt media bombing u with junk info and whatever makes them (government) look right, u would understand that its all a big set up... for the MONEY every thing happens for the money... lives get lost for money... thousands of them every day.
    u think that the us gov are saints?????
    fuck they dont give a damn about ppl dying even their own soldiers.
    money-oil-power the do care about those a lot
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Well one thing they pointed out was the OKC bombing dropped the building in 3 seconds. But that was a case where the main supports were destroyed.

    dont get me started on the okc bombing.. that's a whole other thread.

    but ok, that building had it's main supports destroyed. the planes didn't destroy the main supports of the wtc towers.

    or those of building 7 either, of course
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    DPrival78 wrote:
    dont get me started on the okc bombing.. that's a whole other thread.

    but ok, that building had it's main supports destroyed. the planes didn't destroy the main supports of the wtc towers.

    or those of building 7 either, of course

    Yea, one of the things they said was that the WTC towers redistributed the load adequately. They claim only the fire is responsible, that and the lack of fire-proofing.

    Funny how they continue to change their story though. And every time the scientists and physicists agree it is the only way. But if it was the only way they wouldn't be able to keep changing the story.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yea, one of the things they said was that the WTC towers redistributed the load adequately. They claim only the fire is responsible, that and the lack of fire-proofing.

    Funny how they continue to change their story though. And every time the scientists and physicists agree it is the only way. But if it was the only way they wouldn't be able to keep changing the story.

    exactly. it just doesn't seem to make sense how the buildings could have just given way that quickly and fallen straight down on top of themselves the way they did. i could see if the tops, above the impacts, would collapse and maybe fall off to the side somewhat. but we have two buildings which sustained damage from plane crashes in very different places and at different angles, and yet they fall down in identical fashion. it just seems very odd.

    add to that the numerous witnesses talking about explosions, and the fire fighters in the building saying the fires were almost out... and the pools of molten steel found in the basements.. and steven jone's evidence of thermate found on some of the steel.. i just can't believe that explosives weren't involved, and people who are a lot smarter than me hold the same opinion based on their knowledge and research.
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
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