live msnbc poll: do you believe in 9/11 conspiracies?

DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
edited October 2006 in A Moving Train
i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
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  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    Wow, that's really sad IMO:

    69,382 people voted and 60% think the US Government had something to do with 9/11??????

    :eek:
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Awesome!

    It's a loaded question too

    "No. These theories are absurd and disrespectful -- especially to those who lost their lives on 9/11."

    That option is absurd.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    aNiMaL wrote:
    Wow, that's really sad IMO:

    69,382 people voted and 60% think the US Government had something to do with 9/11??????

    :eek:

    I think you're reading into it wrong...the option 60% checked was "Yes. The government has left many questions unanswered about that day." Which, is pretty true. There was a lot of hostility from the Bush admin. when questioned extensively by the 9/11 commission. They did not cooperate well. And that makes you think, "What do they have to hide?"
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    aNiMaL wrote:
    Wow, that's really sad IMO:

    69,382 people voted and 60% think the US Government had something to do with 9/11??????

    :eek:

    sad why?

    sad that that many people think the gov't was in on it or sad that there's enough out there to suggest that they actually were?
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    that could be the most piss poor wording of a survery i've seen. For instance, if you believe the gov't hasn't said enough about that day you're obligated to choose yes about the conspiracy portion.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • chopitdown wrote:
    that could be the most piss poor wording of a survery i've seen. For instance, if you believe the gov't hasn't said enough about that day you're obligated to choose yes about the conspiracy portion.

    yeah, you think they might have an agenda. i saw an actual scientific poll on this about a year ago. 11% thought the gov't had knowledge of the attacks beforehand and let them occur. something like 3% thought it was an outright inside job. for comparison, 12% of the population still thinks elvis is alive. IMO i think 12% of the population probably believes every conspiracy theory.
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    icarus wrote:
    lol like what? sure there's questions, but theres about zero hard proof.

    there's about zero hard proof of osama doing it.
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    DPrival78 wrote:
    there's about zero hard proof of osama doing it.


    this is shocking that people like you believe this. how bout the video released today showing the 9/11 hijackers meeting with bin laden and talking about their will. did they work for bush, PNAC, or el queda?

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/01/hijackers.video/index.html
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    jlew24asu wrote:
    this is shocking that people like you believe this. how bout the video released today showing the 9/11 hijackers meeting with bin laden and talking about their will. did they work for bush, PNAC, or el queda?

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/01/hijackers.video/index.html


    wow...silent footage of 2 guys laughing while looking at a piece of paper, bin laden at a training camp....:rolleyes: and?

    from the site you put above:

    "The video does not appear to contain any revelations"

    "The tape has no soundtrack and a U.S. source said lip-readers had tried without success to decipher what was being said."

    "The Times posted the video, which lasts about an hour, in five sections on its Web site. One section shows al Qaeda leader bin Laden delivering a speech at the hideout near Kandahar. Another shows Atta and Jarrah talking, smiling, and laughing before turning to the camera and reading written messages in a somber fashion."

    let me go find some charlie chaplin films so i can say he was part of it

    is this supposed to mean they were reading their suicide/martydom message...21 months before 9/11??

    looks like a whole lotta conjecture to me
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    your right, 2 men PROVEN to be on the planes, meeting in osama's cave in afgahistan means nothing. my bad. what was I thinking
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    jlew24asu wrote:
    your right, 2 men PROVEN to be on the planes, meeting in osama's cave in afgahistan means nothing. my bad. what was I thinking


    my bad, i missed the signs that said 'osama's super secret cave' you know they were in the cave how? b/c the media told you? you know they are reading their suicide notes 21 months early how? b/c the media told you that's what this SILENT video which rip leaders couldn't figure out what was being said? this is a tape of different segments, you don't even know the shots of hte 2 of them laughing is even at the same place as where osama is giving the speech...is there a continuous shot going to it or does it cut from outside to the shot of the 2? you could very well be correct, all i'm saying is there's nothing that proves it to me. all there is is diferent tapes put together, all silent...one of osama giving a speech and another of 2 of the suspected hijackers <remember even the head of the fbi said they had no PROOF>. then you have the media TELLING you what it is supposed to mean. that is not enough for me. what's next, they release a cartoon based on what they saw on a secret video?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    of course the media told me. there are several of them and they all have said the same story. are they ALL lying? I havent had the pleasure of touring osama's cave myself, so if they said thats where they were, then I wil give them the benefit of the doubt. granted im not calling this viedo a smoking gun of proof, but I take it for whats its worth.
  • I picked I'm not sure..

    Our government has a long and extensive history of this kind of thing... and they tried to do it with Cuba a few decades ago..

    Circumstantially and based on their history, yes i'd say they had something to do with 9/11.. but I still haven't seen anything that would solidify that opinion totally.
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

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  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    DPrival78 wrote:
    there's about zero hard proof of osama doing it.

    October 29, 2004, 5:10pm EDT
    BIN LADEN ADMITS 9/11 RESPONSIBILITY, WARNS OF MORE ATTACKS

    A tape aired by Al-Jazeera television Friday showed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden admitting for the first time that he orchestrated the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks and saying the United States could face more.
    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/binladen_10-29-04.html
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    chopitdown wrote:
    October 29, 2004, 5:10pm EDT
    BIN LADEN ADMITS 9/11 RESPONSIBILITY, WARNS OF MORE ATTACKS

    A tape aired by Al-Jazeera television Friday showed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden admitting for the first time that he orchestrated the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks and saying the United States could face more.
    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/binladen_10-29-04.html


    it wil interesting to hear what some poeple have to say about this. good post. i'm glad to see someone else around here beleve OBL was responsible for 9/11.
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    jlew24asu wrote:
    it wil interesting to hear what some poeple have to say about this. good post. i'm glad to see someone else around here beleve OBL was responsible for 9/11.

    i def think OBL did it; i think the gov't may not be saying everything, but i'm not buying into the conspiracy theory stuff.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    Unfortunately, once the feds knowingly botched the identities of several of the hijackers on the planes, I no longer believe that they truly know who hijacked them. When several of the alleged hijackers turn up alive, there's something seriously wrong.

    Not saying that the government had anything to do with it, just that the list of "known" hijackers on those planes is total and complete bullshit, the feds know it, and that exposes them to criticism.

    In the court of law, you need a preponderance of evidence to meet burden of proof. Once several of the alleged hijackers turned up alive, that list of hijackers became virtually useless, aside from being an outstanding propaganda device for the war.
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    chopitdown wrote:
    October 29, 2004, 5:10pm EDT
    BIN LADEN ADMITS 9/11 RESPONSIBILITY, WARNS OF MORE ATTACKS

    A tape aired by Al-Jazeera television Friday showed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden admitting for the first time that he orchestrated the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks and saying the United States could face more.
    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/binladen_10-29-04.html

    ok, there's a tape of someone who is claimed to be osama allegedly taking credit for the attacks - a tape conveniently released one week before the 2004 elections. at time this tape came out, the gov't had already proven that they would put out phoney tapes and try to pass them off as authentic "osama". why should we believe this one? just because they tell us to?

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape2.html

    its been reported that osama denied any involvement. here's one story about that:

    http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/index.html

    if that tape is all you have to lean on to support the myth that "al qaeda" did 9/11, then you have a pretty weak argument.
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    DPrival78 wrote:
    ok, there's a tape of someone who is claimed to be osama allegedly taking credit for the attacks - a tape conveniently released one week before the 2004 elections. at time this tape came out, the gov't had already proven that they would put out phoney tapes and try to pass them off as authentic "osama". why should we believe this one? just because they tell us to?

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape2.html

    its been reported that osama denied any involvement. here's one story about that:

    http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/index.html

    if that tape is all you have to lean on to support the myth that "al qaeda" did 9/11, then you have a pretty weak argument.

    keep reachin' man. keep reachin.


    According to the 9/11 Commission Report, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the attack's mastermind, wanted to remove at least one member—Khalid al-Mihdhar—from the operation, but he was overruled by Osama bin Laden.

    in Laden initially denied, but later admitted involvement in the incidents. On September 16, 2001, bin Laden denied any involvement with the attacks by reading a statement which was broadcast by Qatar's Al Jazeera satellite channel: "I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation."[41] This denial was broadcast on U.S. news networks and worldwide.

    In November 2001, U.S. forces recovered a videotape from a destroyed house in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, in which Osama bin Laden is talking to Khaled al-Harbi. In the tape bin Laden admits foreknowledge of the attacks.[42] The tape was broadcast on various news networks from December 13, 2001.

    On December 27, 2001, a second bin Laden video was released. In the video he stated "Terrorism against America deserves to be praised because it was a response to injustice, aimed at forcing America to stop its support for Israel, which kills our people," but he stopped short of admitting responsibility for the attacks.[43]

    Shortly before the U.S. presidential election in 2004 in a taped statement, bin Laden publicly acknowledged al-Qaeda's involvement in the attacks on the U.S, and admitted his direct link to the attacks. He said that the attacks were carried out because, "We are a free people who do not accept injustice, and we want to regain the freedom of our nation."

    In an audiotape aired on Al Jazeera on May 21, 2006, bin Laden said he had personally directed the 19 hijackers.[44] Another video obtained by Al Jazeera in September 2006 shows Osama bin Laden with Ramzi Binalshibh, as well as two hijackers, Hamza al-Ghamdi and Wail al-Shehri, as they make preparations for the attacks.[45] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_September_11%2C_2001_attacks

    something that is fairly interesting in that 2nd link is on the section on the US involvement...there are ZERO sources listed as proof of their involvement. Just conjecture and overactive imaginations.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    DPrival78 wrote:
    ok, there's a tape of someone who is claimed to be osama allegedly taking credit for the attacks - a tape conveniently released one week before the 2004 elections. at time this tape came out, the gov't had already proven that they would put out phoney tapes and try to pass them off as authentic "osama". why should we believe this one? just because they tell us to?

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape2.html

    its been reported that osama denied any involvement. here's one story about that:

    http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/index.html

    if that tape is all you have to lean on to support the myth that "al qaeda" did 9/11, then you have a pretty weak argument.

    present a video tape of the man himself admitting involvment and play it off as fake because a few people with film editing skills put together some hack job website called whatreallyhappened.com. makes me wonder were the true hatred for this country lies.
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    chopitdown wrote:

    In November 2001, U.S. forces recovered a videotape from a destroyed house in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, in which Osama bin Laden is talking to Khaled al-Harbi. In the tape bin Laden admits foreknowledge of the attacks.[42] The tape was broadcast on various news networks from December 13, 2001.

    this is the bogus confession tape, featuring the 250 lb., right-handed, gold ring wearing osama. osama's lefty, probably weighs about 120 lbs, and being a devout muslim, he would never wear gold.

    in an interview with a pakistani newspaper, bin laden again reportedly denied involvement. he's quoted as saying:
    "I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle."
    http://www.unknownnews.org/OsamaInterview.html

    these tapes and interviews are all questionable. the fact that the first one released as "the" confession video was a clear fake, makes me highly skeptical of any of the others put forth by the gov't or mainstream media.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_September_11%2C_2001_attacks

    something that is fairly interesting in that 2nd link is on the section on the US involvement...there are ZERO sources listed as proof of their involvement. Just conjecture and overactive imaginations.

    ok let's look at what is said in that 2nd link:

    "The Federal Bureau of Investigation working together with the United States Department of Justice identified 19 deceased hijackers. The suspects were identified within 72 hours. Few had made any attempt to disguise their names on flight and credit card records, and they were some of the few people of Arabic descent on the flights."

    if that is true, then why were there no arab names on any of the passenger lists? http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/passengers.html

    there are also links on that site to stories about some of the alleged hijackers still being alive. what's up with that?

    "Within hours the FBI was able to determine their names and in many cases details such as dates of birth, known and/or possible residences, visa status, and specific identity of the suspected pilots.

    how did they do that so quickly, especially if they had no idea that the attacks were coming? if they were in fact able to positively ID these people so quickly, why did FBI director robert mueller say that they haven't found one piece of paper, in all of the evidence collected, to link the alleged hijackers to 911?
    http://www.geocities.com/mewatch99/fbiadmits.html
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    DPrival78 wrote:

    "As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle."






    scary you believe this.
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    jlew24asu wrote:
    DPrival78 wrote:

    "As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle."

    scary you believe this.

    any more scary than you believing that osama gained 150 lbs and changed into a righty to confess to 911?
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    DPrival78 wrote:

    these tapes and interviews are all questionable. the fact that the first one released as "the" confession video was a clear fake, makes me highly skeptical of any of the others put forth by the gov't or mainstream media.

    al jazeera put forth the confession tape in 04 or 05. Our gov't didn't put that one forth and I figured that the al jazeera source would help you in coming to terms with it b/c it wasn't from america.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    chopitdown wrote:
    al jazeera put forth the confession tape in 04 or 05. Our gov't didn't put that one forth and I figured that the al jazeera source would help you in coming to terms with it b/c it wasn't from america.

    i don't trust al-jazeera anymore than i trust fox news. but at least their osama looks a little better than fat-righty osama put out by our gov't. i'll give them that.
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    DPrival78 wrote:
    i don't trust al-jazeera anymore than i trust fox news. but at least their osama looks a little better than fat-righty osama put out by our gov't. i'll give them that.

    so you're saying osama is really just a standup guy and a pacifist? if so, why has he been hiding for the last 20 years... since even before we suspected he was a terrorist.

    im sorry, but when ive got a videotaped confession that's solid evidence to me. unless you've got a videotape of bush saying he did it, im going to take a confession over a bunch of circumstiantial bullshit any day.

    this is the real world and al-quaeda, not a mission impossible movie where you can just put on a mask and become someone else... voila!
  • brain of cbrain of c Posts: 5,213
    i believe in cigarettes and alcohol.
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    so you're saying osama is really just a standup guy and a pacifist? if so, why has he been hiding for the last 20 years... since even before we suspected he was a terrorist.

    i'm not saying that at all. i'm saying that the person who the gov't and media claimed to be osama in that first tape was not osama. why would they show us a fake tape? to try to get us to believe something that isn't true? maybe..

    and these tapes, phony or not, are low on the list of 911 anomalies anyway.
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    So what exactly are you saying, DPrival? You're defending binLaden to death, so there's something else you're not telling us. Like, who do you think is behind 9/11? What's your theory on it all? Because reading nothing but defensiveness for the guy who was pretty much the head of the Taliban doesn't solve this equation. I don't know what your religion is, does this have everything to do with this? Just curious.
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    Jeanwah wrote:
    So what exactly are you saying, DPrival? You're defending binLaden to death, so there's something else you're not telling us. Like, who do you think is behind 9/11? What's your theory on it all? Because reading nothing but defensiveness for the guy who was pretty much the head of the Taliban doesn't solve this equation. I don't know what your religion is, does this have everything to do with this? Just curious.

    i don't mean to come off as defending bin laden - i have no love for the man at all. i'm attacking the tapes because i think that they are bogus, and are just being used by the gov't to push their story of "osama did it'.

    originally i asked what hard evidence are people leaning on to back up their belief in the gov't's version of what happened on 9/11. the confession tapes were brought up. i am of the belief that the tapes, most especially the first tape passed off as a confession, are not genuine. in that first tape, the man purported to be bin laden looks nothing like him - he's much, much heavier than we've ever seen him, he's seen writing with his right hand (the fbi's website will tell you that he's left-handed), and he's wearing a gold ring, which is something a devout muslim would not do. there was also a story about how german intelligence called the u.s.' translation of the tape completely inaccurate. those things, particularly the problems with the physical appearance, lead me to believe that the tapes are phony propaganda, used to sell a story that isn't true.

    the problem with the tapes is only one thing that have me thinking that the gov't has completely lied to us about 9/11. there are just so many oddities with what went on that i believe that the factions of the u.s. gov't had to be involved in carrying it out. which is why i asked the question, what hard evidence are people leaning on to believe the official story. the tapes were brought up, so i brought some problems with them. i'm still interested in hearing what else people have to say.

    believe me, i would love to be proven wrong about this, but whenever someone brings up something "official", it seems to be full of holes.
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
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