zionism and 911

ilana

purrmo wrote:

How can you can you prove that, do you have the DNA of those who lived 3,000 years ago? The rabbi you mentioned is one jew, the majority of Jews living in Palestine have no connection what so ever to Palestine. Many Palestinians can trace their lineage, just like your one rabbi, to the Philistines and the Canaanites who were there over 3,000 years ago. That aside, how do
you kick out close to a million people and say "we were here 3,000 years ago," what kind of injustice is that? The torah and the bible are irrevelant, democracy is the separation of church and state, the torah is not admissable in any court of law. It is not a real estate document. What is admissable are the TITLES to the hundreds of miles of Palestinian lands and homes that Palestians own, and still have. You can not talk about justice and peace for jews, when the israeli government continues to steal land, continues to occupy and oppress Palestinians. They want their freedom, just like the Jews want their freedom. The jews have been targeting innocent, unarmed Palestinians since before 1948. The Palestinians have no arms, they were denied the right to bear arms by the British and are now denied the right to bear arms by the jews. This is an unfair and unjust occupation and until you have lived in their shoes, then you can judge their actions. If you lived under their conditions, Gods know what any of us would do. That is right, people die in wars and the usurping of another's land is an act of war, and if you put you, your family and your children in a dangerous situation and usurp lands and lives, then expect retaliation. The Palestinians have no choice, this is their home and they have every right to defend it and gain back what is rightfully theirs. The Palestinians don't owe the Jews peace, it is the other way around. When there is justice for ALL there will be peace.

firstlly it is not ane rabbi, there are several, and the thing about palastinians being able to trace thire liniage back to before the 18-1900 is absolute complete crap, thire never was a palastine, if the romans had not changed the name of israel to palastine, than no one would be speaking about palastinians today,
you are full of nonsense
you whant to talk injustice, okay lets talk injustice
the jew lived in thire own contry for hundreds of year , along come the romans, and exile them,(we never left by choise)
than we returned becouse no contry let us live in peace, we came back to an almost empty barran desolet land, sprslly populated and with maleria swamps,
we the jew built it up drained the swamps created inferstructure, only then did such alot of arrabs claim some right to the land, thire never was a palastinian state, nor was thire a contry called jorden
you whant to talk injustice, arabs alot of them stayed in israel in 1948, the jew who lived in arab lands where expeled aand all thire property was confiscated, all thire money stolen by arabs, thousands of jewish refugees fled to the only home that we knew, israel, but how often do you hear about jewish refugee problems, oh no all you hear about a those wishy washy palastinians, who have brought all thire suffering on them selves
and the torah is not irelevent becouse the three faiths surounding this conflict believe in it, or claim to.
and just a note about democracy, hitler was elected presedent 86% of the german population voted to kill the other 14%
you talk about oppressing palatinians, well if they feel so opressed they can pick up and go to one of thire 22 other arab states or jordan wich is a palastinian state, truth is mosst would not go
becouse israel treats them better than the arrab states would
the land was never rightfully arab, thats bulshit, history attests to that
the only nation to make that land a state of thire own was jews, it was ours before we were concured and exiled, but it never stoped being ours just becouse trhe romans stole it and the arabs used stolen property
the seperation of church and state, sounds good
untill you look around and see a bunch of spiritually dead people whos worl is spiraling out of controll were familly mean nothing morals, old fashiond ethics most never herd of them
the jews dont owe the palastinians anything, exept perhaps thire marching orders
infact we owe no one anything, the world hates the jews becouse without jewish input the world would have lost out on so much, monothesim
ethict morality hope freedom all jewish consepts, our historic acheivements have been
aknowlaged and our modern achivments are everywere to be seen

Echoes

ilana wrote:

without jewish input the world would have lost out on so much, monothesim
ethict morality hope freedom all jewish consepts,

hhahaha good one

VivaPalestina

ilana wrote:

firstlly it is not ane rabbi, there are several, and the thing about palastinians being able to trace thire liniage back to before the 18-1900 is absolute complete crap, thire never was a palastine, if the romans had not changed the name of israel to palastine, than no one would be speaking about palastinians today,

Several rabbis? Sorry, you got me. If its “several” then that changes everything. That is your argument, that it is absolute crap? Well then, who can argue that? The Palestinians have existed and exist and can trace their lineage just like your “several” rabbis. Before the Hebrews. To say there was never a Palestine is like saying there never was a Holocaust, you are denying history. The state of Israel never existed before 1948.
The romans changed the name of Judea(get it right), and that is history, thus Palestine, thus the Palestinians, thus the debate about Palestinians. If, you are going to base your argument on "if"? If the romans didn’t change it, than we would be calling the Palestinians something else. The fact is there is a native people and they are not the majority of the Jews who live in Israel today.

ilana wrote:

the jew lived in thire own contry for hundreds of year , along come the romans, and exile them,(we never left by choise)
than we returned becouse no contry let us live in peace,

This is totally irrelevant, because the Jews that the Romans expelled are NOT the jews that live in ISRAEL TODAY. Because no country let them live in peace, their native countries, then they left by choice and it is the problem of that country not of the Palestinians, just because they lived there (so you say) 2000 years ago. Why should they pay for the problems of foreign jews.

ilana wrote:

we came back to an almost empty barran desolet land, sprslly populated and with maleria swamps,
we the jew built it up drained the swamps created inferstructure,

Sparsely desolate land and malaria swamps? That is an out and out LIE. There are numerous pictures and geographical FACTS, that the land was not sparsely populated and swamps pre-48. That would just make so easy for the Jews, “A country without a people for a people without a country.” BULLSHIT. That is a myth perpuated by the usurpers and those who claim that Palestinians didn’t exist. What about the close to 400 arab villages that were totally razed after Jews took Palestine by force? What about the over 750,000 arabs that were forced to leave for fear of their lives because of the raids of the terroritst groups like the Stern gang and Irgun. Do some homework…you undermine your credibility that you wish to have by stating lies that have already been admitted by the state of Israel itself…they no longer follow your propaganda about the land being sparsely populated. Look it up.

ilana wrote:

only then did such alot of arrabs claim some right to the land, thire never was a palastinian state, nor was thire a contry called jorden

The Palestinians have been waiting to return since 1948, that is why they all held onto and still have their TITLES to the so-called “swamps” that you speak of. The romans named the land Palestine and now there never was a Palestine, which is it, make up your mind.

ilana wrote:

arabs alot of them stayed in israel in 1948, the jew who lived in arab lands where expeled aand all thire property was confiscated, all thire money stolen by arabs, thousands of jewish refugees fled to the only home that we knew, israel, but how often do you hear about jewish refugee problems, oh no all you hear about a those wishy washy palastinians, who have brought all thire suffering on them selves

The jews still have their lands and homes in arab lands, what the hell are you talking about? They are still in arab lands. You don’t HEAR about jewish refugee problems, because there isn’t a damn refugee problem. It is a known fact and admitted by the mossad that they would bomb synongues in arab countries to create a pretext for their leaving those countries. Not denying that they may not have been mistreated but it is a fact that there was a concerted effort by the Israeli government to force Arab Jews to leave their native Arab countries to counter the growing Palestinian Arab population. Lets talk about that oppression.

ilana wrote:

and the torah is not irelevent becouse the three faiths surounding this conflict believe in it, or claim to.
and just a note about democracy, hitler was elected presedent 86% of the german population voted to kill the other 14%

The torah is irrelevant, it is not a real estate document. Israel claims to be a democracy and a true democracy is the separation of church and state, so the torah wouldn’t even hold up in an Israeli court of law.

ilana wrote:

you talk about oppressing palatinians, well if they feel so opressed they can pick up and go to one of thire 22 other arab states or jordan wich is a palastinian state, truth is mosst would not go
becouse israel treats them better than the arrab states would
the land was never rightfully arab, thats bulshit, history attests to that
the only nation to make that land a state of thire own was jews, it was ours before we were concured and exiled, but it never stoped being ours just becouse trhe romans stole it and the arabs used stolen property

The arab states are not responsible for the Palestinians, Israel is. They will never leave what is rightfully theirs (reminder: TITLES), no matter how oppressed they are. When you are right, you fight no matter what. Conquered and exiled, romans….yada, yada, yada. Those are NOT the jews that live in Israel today. Oh sorry, except for “several” rabbis.

ilana wrote:

the seperation of church and state, sounds good
untill you look around and see a bunch of spiritually dead people whos worl is spiraling out of controll were familly mean nothing morals, old fashiond ethics most never herd of them
the jews dont owe the palastinians anything, exept perhaps thire marching orders
infact we owe no one anything, the world hates the jews becouse without jewish input the world would have lost out on so much, monothesim
ethict morality hope freedom all jewish consepts, our historic acheivements have been
aknowlaged and our modern achivments are everywere to be seen

[/quote]

Separation of church and state is what Israel has chosen. And you are right, if you ever went to israel, it is not hard to find spiritually dead people, etc.
People of all races, religions, ethnicities have historic and modern achievements. This acclamation does not belong solely to the jews.

Just because you say Palestinians are not oppressed doesn’t mean it is so. When your land is occupied by a foreign power, when you have tanks in your backyard, when your every movement is dictated by another people you are oppressed and occupied. Every human being has the right to be free in their homeland…Freedom is what the Palestianians are fighting for because it doesn’t exist for them. Believe what you will…the present fact is that we must deal with is that Palestine is occupied by the state of Israel period. They do not share the same rights with Israeli citizens. You can not tell me that they have the same rights, that they are free to move and be as they choose. Everyone deserves this right and when you are willing to live under the boot heel of another individual, if anyone is, that we’ll say its ok to be occupied by a foreign power. If someone came into your home would you just handover and pack it up and leave? Why should you? Why should anyone be forced to leave their homes? Don’t be a hypocrite. What you love for yourself you should love for your fellow man Jew or Arab…this is about justice. And if you believe in justice and fairness and freedom you must believe in it for both Arab and Jew, not just one. No human being is better than the other and we all deserve the right to be free and live in peace. When you are occupied by a foreign power you have neither.

watcher

Excellent thread and a lot of really good thoughts here. Nice to see so many free thinkers at a Pearl Jam forum, not stuck in a religious or political rut of repetition. Who can really deny the role of Zionism and Israel in the New World Order plot, or the religious and prophetic implications of the "holy" land? Zionism and the Vatican are seeking complete dominion hand in hand, (the shaking hands symbol of Freemasonry) guiding and manipulating the various secret society and governmental elements beneath them. The majority of corporatism and Hollywood only serve as gatekeepers to a deeper concoction and plot designed and manufactured by the so called "Illuminati"..

Not only is Zionism a main factor in the control structure of secret societies, but there is also a Zionist element which is visible in WWII and the rise to power of Nazism and Adolf Hitler. The reestablishment of Israel at all costs, even if anti-semitism would be needed as an ally for forging a stronger religious footing in the Middle East. A push to fulfill religious prophecy through Israel by not only Christian means, but Roman Catholic, Hindu, Mexican Indian, Babylonian, and even into Egyptian and other ancient cultures.

The "New World Order' agenda is thousands of years old, not just hundreds, or decades. I believe we all have an important part in how the future plays out.. We don't have to lay down and accept tyranny and propaganda....

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com

Zionism Archive:
http://nwowatcher.com/smf/index.php?board=22.0

VivaPalestina

Thanks for the jews against zionism link, its very interesting, I've always heard about Zionists and the Holocaust, how they wanted Jews to emigrate to Palestine no matter what the cost and there is more information on that at this link.

I have protested with Jews who are against zionism at israeli day parades and other marches and they are very brave. They get totally abused by the other jews but yet they always come and support Palestinians and tell their story.

IndianSummer

HMM, I'LL HAVE TO USE CAPS TO DIFFERENTIATE YOUR AND MY POSTS.



Well it didn't exist, it was Prussia. Your premise is flawed because there have always been germanic people in the area of prussia/germany, but there haven't always been eastern europeans, russians and polish(etc) jews in Palestine. And how do you prove that the ashkenazi have blood lines from two thousand years ago, The torah is not a real estate document.

THERE WERENT VERY MANY JEWISH PEOPLE IN TRANSJORDAN BECAUSE THE JEWS WERE THROWN OUT BY THE ROMANS AND PREVENTED FROM COMMING TO PALESTINE BY THE COLON-IAL ENGLISHMEN. THE ASHKENAZI ARE JEWS WHO SETTLED IN GERMANY AND THEREABOUTS WHILE THE SHEPARDIM ARE JEWS WHO ENDED UP IN IBERIA. I DONT KNWO WHATS THE NAME FOR EASTERN EUROPEAN JEWS.

IndianSummer wrote:

nor did vietnam which is why they did the cop out.

Regardless, the US is still the most powerful nation on earth, not israel.

DOESNT MATTER. THE USA IS FOR THE MOST PART A RESULT OF BRAIN DRAIN FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, BUILT ON SLAVE LABOUR AND CHEAP IMMIGRANT LABOUR, BUILT ON THE LAND OF HALF A CONTINENT LOOTED THANKS TO A AMERINDIAN GENOCIDE, WITH ABOUT 50 MORE YEARS TO GO. AND THE BIGGEST TERRORISTS FOR THE LAST 60 YEARS.



That is right, nothing will stop the Palestinians, they will resist, no matter what israel does, they will fight, they know they are in the right and nothing will stop them.

NO THEY ARE NOT. ISRAEL BELONGS TO THE JEWS.


Hamas is less dangerous than the israeli government.
LESS CAPABLE YES.


The israeli government has killed and imprisoned and oppressed thousands
WHICH IS NOTHING COMPARED TO THE 3 MILLION VIETNAMESE THE AMERICANS HAVE KILLED, THE THOUSANDS USA HAS NUKED, THE MILLIONS IN CAMBODIA WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LIMBS THANKS TO USA, THE MY LAI, THE ABU GHARIBS AND THE GITMOS. SO - POT, KETTLE, BLACK.


and yet they are worried about Hamas who has less than a quarter of the power that Israel does.
HAMAS USES SUICIDE BOMBERS. ISRAEL IS WORRIED ABPOUT THEM AND TRIES TO STOP THEM.


Their agenda is to gain back what is rightfully theirs and nothing can stop them from obtaining the justice they know they deserve.
THEIR DECLARED AGENDA IS TO WIPE OFF ISRAEL FROM THE MAP AND ESTABISH A PALESTANIAN STATE WITH JERUSALEM AS THE CAPITAL.


What you explained is accomplishments by american jews, not israelis.
YES. AND WITHOUT THESE "AMERICAN JEWS" THERE WOULD BE NO NUCLEAR ENEGRY IN USA, NO COMPUTERS, NO GENETICS, NO GOLDMANN SACHS, NO GOOGLE, NO STARBUCKS, AMERICAN NOBEL LAUREATES WOULD BE ABOUT 1/10TH THE NUMBER, THERE WOULD BE NO HOLLYWOOD, NO INTEL ETC ETC.


These "top players" are not israelis.
THATS RIGHT, THESE TOP PLAYERS ARE EUROPEAN JEWS AND THEIR DESCENDANTS WHO FLED EUROPE FOR USA, INSTEAD OF ISRAEL. WHICH IS A BIG STROKE OF LUCK FOR USA.


And you are trying to connect those accomplishments to the Sharon quote which have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. SHARON MEANT THAT JEWS IN AMERICA.... CONTROL AMERICA.


Sharon is an israeli, not an american jew,
SHARON IS AN ASHKENAZI WHO/WHO'S PERANTS, WENT TO ISRAEL INSTEAD OF USA.


i am pretty sure when he said what he did, he didn't have computers, medicine and Bobby Fischer in mind.
PERHAPS NOT. HE HAD THE WALL STREET, THE MEDIA MUGALS, THE AMERICAN POLICY MAKERS, AND FINANCE TOP GUNS LIKE - BEN SHALOM BERNANKE, AND ALLAN GREENSPAN, PAUL WOLFOWITZ AND WOFLHANSEN IN MIND. HE HAD THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE USA LIKE A PUPPET ON A CHAIN IN MIND.

IndianSummer

El_Kabong wrote:

........

from the start of the intifada (9.28.00) to 9.15.05 the IDF killed 3315 Palestinians compared to 972 Israelis.

thats cos the IDF is a lot better at defending than the rag tag suicide bombers are at killing.

IndianSummer

yosi wrote:

That is the most absurd argument I've ever heard. There were also very few Arabs who died, and very few Germans, and English people, and French, and the list goes on. Why is it so surprising that few Israeli's died. The attack happened in the US. Not Israel.

there are 1000s of jews who used to work in WTC. yet only a handful of them died.

the same does not apply to germans and english and arabs. 1000s of them didnt have jobs in WTC.

but i think i have explained how israel took no chances and warned them usa didnt.

El_Kabong

IndianSummer wrote:

thats cos the IDF is a lot better at defending than the rag tag suicide bombers are at killing.

how does one defend against suicide bombings? maybe the idf is just more indiscriminate in killing

IndianSummer

El_Kabong wrote:

how does one defend against suicide bombings? maybe the idf is just more indiscriminate in killing

wel the israelis prevent more than 80% of all attempted suicide bombings. fact.


so while the only israeli victims are those of the bombers who are successful, the israelis (idf, shin bet, mossad et al) have to prevent/liquidate/nullify/nail down the would be suicide bomber after thwarting his or her attempt, cos for sure the jehadi is going to try one more time. israeli jails are full of suicide bombers caught red handed and one of the first things they try to understand is the mentality of those people, what makes them want to commit suicide bombers (often they are impressionable younths who are lured into this kind of stuff by hamas and other groups with the promise of virgins, money whatever - this comes from the horse's mouth - ie. from failed suicide bombers and from "Defectors' - people who were once ready to carry out the bombing but had a change of mind/heart at the last moment, and now the hamas is after them for doing this "trechery"), and whats their network like (which is how israel comes to know about the tunnels used to ferry the bomb materials).

if israelis were not so good at nipping the bombings in the bud, 5 times the number of israelis would be dying every year, and a lot more suicide bombers would be walking free.

VivaPalestina

IndianSummer wrote:

THERE WERENT VERY MANY JEWISH PEOPLE IN TRANSJORDAN BECAUSE THE JEWS WERE THROWN OUT BY THE ROMANS AND PREVENTED FROM COMMING TO PALESTINE BY THE COLON-IAL ENGLISHMEN. THE ASHKENAZI ARE JEWS WHO SETTLED IN GERMANY AND THEREABOUTS WHILE THE SHEPARDIM ARE JEWS WHO ENDED UP IN IBERIA. I DONT KNWO WHATS THE NAME FOR EASTERN EUROPEAN JEWS..

I have never read a history book or known of a history that said that the Ashkenazi Jews, the Sephardic Jews of Iberia, and the eastern European jews are from Palestine and they are tied to the Jews of 2000+ years ago. Maybe history got it wrong, so you can just show me the proof. So back it up, I WANT PROOF, that the Jews of 2000+ years ago are connected to the Jews of today. What about the converts? By your logic and what you have written, only those who were thrown out by the Romans have rights to Palestine. How many Jews have converted in the last 2,000 years? “In other words, assuming that a million people convert to Judaism (which already occurred during the great Jewish Khazrian empire),
Did these new converts magically overnight develop a "unique and special connection" to "Eretz Yisrael"? If your answer is yes,
Could Palestinians reclaim their looted homes if they all made a mass conversion to Judaism?”

IndianSummer wrote:

DOESNT MATTER. THE USA IS FOR THE MOST PART A RESULT OF BRAIN DRAIN FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, BUILT ON SLAVE LABOUR AND CHEAP IMMIGRANT LABOUR, BUILT ON THE LAND OF HALF A CONTINENT LOOTED THANKS TO A AMERINDIAN GENOCIDE, WITH ABOUT 50 MORE YEARS TO GO. AND THE BIGGEST TERRORISTS FOR THE LAST 60 YEARS

It really does matter that they are the world's biggest power, because without them israel would be nothing. If it wasn't for the US's slave labour, cheap immigrant labor, looting, etc,They wouldn't be able to give israel:

-Since 1949 the US has given Israel a total of $84,854,827,200. The interest costs born by US taxpayers on behalf of Israel are $49,937,000,000 – making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $134,791,507,200 (more than $134 billion).
-The total cost of this financial aid to US tax payers per Israeli is $23,240.
-Since 1992, the US has offered Israel an additional $2 billion in loan guarantees every year.6
-Nearly all past loans to Israel have been forgiven – leading Israel to claim that they have never defaulted on repayment of a US loan – with most loans made on the understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them.
-In 1997 alone, the total of US grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion, i.e., $15,068,493 per day.

IndianSummer wrote:

NO THEY ARE NOT. ISRAEL BELONGS TO THE JEWS.

PROVE IT.

IndianSummer wrote:

LESS CAPABLE YES.

Capable enough for the oppression and the shit that Israel pulls on them. Israel has the most power in the Mid-east and yet they still struggle and will continue to struggle, lie, propagate,etc.

IndianSummer wrote:

WHICH IS NOTHING COMPARED TO THE 3 MILLION VIETNAMESE THE AMERICANS HAVE KILLED, THE THOUSANDS USA HAS NUKED, THE MILLIONS IN CAMBODIA WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LIMBS THANKS TO USA, THE MY LAI, THE ABU GHARIBS AND THE GITMOS. SO - POT, KETTLE, BLACK.

I have never defended any of what these crimes commited by the US, I wrote that they are still the world's largest super power and that they are. But that doesn't make them not guilty of oppression and it doesn't clear israel either. They are both guilty, they are perfect for each other, they have taught each other well in crimes against humanity.

IndianSummer wrote:

HAMAS USES SUICIDE BOMBERS. ISRAEL IS WORRIED ABPOUT THEM AND TRIES TO STOP THEM..

Israel has created suicide bombers, suicide bombers are not born they are created. If Israel is worried about suicide bombers then they should stop creating conditions for these ideas to flourish. Checkpoints, walls, humiliation, degradation, and poverty create suicide bombers not Hamas. They know exactly how to end suicide bombing, equal rights for both Palestinian and Israeli. But why would they do that, when a suicide bombing means that they get to retaliate and retaliation is the excuse they are looking for to kill more Palestinians.

IndianSummer wrote:

THEIR DECLARED AGENDA IS TO WIPE OFF ISRAEL FROM THE MAP AND ESTABISH A PALESTANIAN STATE WITH JERUSALEM AS THE CAPITAL.

That is there agenda? And you are their spokesperson? So it is okay for zionists to wipe off a country from the map and we have to step aside and let them be above the law and do whatever it is they want. If karma is correct (you believe in karma, don’t you?) then they have that coming to them. The Palestinians want one thing and it is recognized by all countries as a basic human right and that this the Right to Return to their homeland. They want rights just as the jews have rights. That doesn’t have mean wiping anything off the damn map, but the Jews refuse to give up an inch of what they have thieved.

IndianSummer wrote:

YES. AND WITHOUT THESE "AMERICAN JEWS" THERE WOULD BE NO NUCLEAR ENEGRY IN USA, NO COMPUTERS, NO GENETICS, NO GOLDMANN SACHS, NO GOOGLE, NO STARBUCKS, AMERICAN NOBEL LAUREATES WOULD BE ABOUT 1/10TH THE NUMBER, THERE WOULD BE NO HOLLYWOOD, NO INTEL ETC ETC.

And your point is? That still doesn't make them israeli or zionists. They are americans, americans who contribute to their country, the usa. Just like all races, religions and ethnicities have contributed to the USA, they are no different.

IndianSummer wrote:

THATS RIGHT, THESE TOP PLAYERS ARE EUROPEAN JEWS AND THEIR DESCENDANTS WHO FLED EUROPE FOR USA, INSTEAD OF ISRAEL. WHICH IS A BIG STROKE OF LUCK FOR USA.

Yes and why didn’t they go to israel? Do you know, since it seems you do know everything, why did they come to the US?

IndianSummer wrote:

IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. SHARON MEANT THAT JEWS IN AMERICA.... CONTROL AMERICA.
PERHAPS NOT. HE HAD THE WALL STREET, THE MEDIA MUGALS, THE AMERICAN POLICY MAKERS, AND FINANCE TOP GUNS LIKE - BEN SHALOM BERNANKE, AND ALLAN GREENSPAN, PAUL WOLFOWITZ AND WOFLHANSEN IN MIND. HE HAD THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE USA LIKE A PUPPET ON A CHAIN IN MIND.

Not all jews are Zionists, so he meant that the Zionists control America, you connected it to Bobby Fisher and Hollywood. Not exactly. Through PACS and other means they have infiltrated the U.S. government to steer US Mid-east policy in israel’s favor. So they have politicians in their pockets, not American nobel laureates.
And they won't be cutting those puppet strings anytime soon, The US has so much that Israel needs. Yet israel still struggles for something they have usurped. Being a criminal is not easy, you need lots of help and if its anyone who knows that better, it is Israel.

IndianSummer wrote:

SHARON IS AN ASHKENAZI WHO/WHO'S PERANTS, WENT TO ISRAEL INSTEAD OF USA.

And your point is?

El_Kabong

IndianSummer wrote:

wel the israelis prevent more than 80% of all attempted suicide bombings. fact.


so while the only israeli victims are those of the bombers who are successful, the israelis (idf, shin bet, mossad et al) have to prevent/liquidate/nullify/nail down the would be suicide bomber after thwarting his or her attempt, cos for sure the jehadi is going to try one more time. israeli jails are full of suicide bombers caught red handed and one of the first things they try to understand is the mentality of those people, what makes them want to commit suicide bombers (often they are impressionable younths who are lured into this kind of stuff by hamas and other groups with the promise of virgins, money whatever - this comes from the horse's mouth - ie. from failed suicide bombers and from "Defectors' - people who were once ready to carry out the bombing but had a change of mind/heart at the last moment, and now the hamas is after them for doing this "trechery"), and whats their network like (which is how israel comes to know about the tunnels used to ferry the bomb materials).

if israelis were not so good at nipping the bombings in the bud, 5 times the number of israelis would be dying every year, and a lot more suicide bombers would be walking free.

but how do you know all these dead palestinians were futuristic suicide bombers, especially the 5:1 number for children? that's an awful high number in just a few years...not sure if 'nipping in the bud' is the way i'd choose to describe it.

i'm sure ppl get captured...captured is one thing, a massive number killed is entirely another.

IndianSummer

I have never read a history book or known of a history that said that the Ashkenazi Jews, the Sephardic Jews of Iberia, and the eastern European jews are from Palestine and they are tied to the Jews of 2000+ years ago.Maybe history got it wrong, so you can just show me the proof.


WELL NOR HAVE I READ A HISTORY BOOK THAT CONNECTS THE PRESENT DAY MONGOLIANS TO GHANGIZ KHAN. OR THE PRESENT DAY ANGLO SAXONS OF UK AND USA TO THOSE OF SAXONY IN GERMANY. NOR THE PRESENT DAY ARGENTINES AND MEXICANS TO THE PRESENT DAY SPANIARDS. HISTORY MUST BE ALL WRONG !!


So back it up, I WANT PROOF, that the Jews of 2000+ years ago are connected to the Jews of today. What about the converts? By your logic and what you have written, only those who were thrown out by the Romans have rights to Palestine.

AND THEIR DESCENDANTS. cONFUCIOUS THE CHINESE PHILOSOPHER HAS WELL OVER A MILION DESCENDANTS TODAY.


How many Jews have converted in the last 2,000 years?


NOT MANY. JUDAISM DONT PROSELITYSE LIKE ISLAM OR CHRISTIANITY.


“In other words, assuming that a million people convert to Judaism (which already occurred during the great Jewish Khazrian empire),

WHIH AS A PIECE OF HISTORY, IS R-E-A-L-L-Y OF DUBIOUS AUTHENTICITY.


Did these new converts magically overnight develop a "unique and special connection" to "Eretz Yisrael"?

MORE OR LESS. THERE ARE JEWS IN INDIA, WHO FLED AND CAME TO INDIA WHEN THE ROMANS THREW THE 12 LOST TRIBES OUT, AND THEIR DESCENDANTS, THOUGH THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OR HEBREW OR ANYTHING ELSE ISRAELI, HAVE COMPLETE RIGHT OF PASSAGE BACK TO ISRAEL.

If your answer is yes,
Could Palestinians reclaim their looted homes if they all made a mass conversion to Judaism?”
YES.


It really does matter that they are the world's biggest power, because without them israel would be nothing.


PRETTY MUCH THE OPPOSITE. USA WOULNT BE HALF THE COUNTRY IT IS WITHOUT THE CONTRIBUTION OF JEWS. NOR WOULD PRE-NAZI GERMANY AND USSR, BUT THATS A DIFFERENT MATTER.


If it wasn't for the US's slave labour, cheap immigrant labor, looting, etc,They wouldn't be able to give israel:
LIKE I SAID THE 3 BILLION USAGIVES TO ISRAEL IS PEANUTS COMPARED TO WHAT USA GETS FROM THE JEWISH PEOPLE.


-Since 1949 the US has given Israel a total of $84,854,827,200. The interest costs born by US taxpayers on behalf of Israel are $49,937,000,000 – making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $134,791,507,200 (more than $134 billion).

THOSE TAX PAYERS MOST PROBABNKLY HAVE JOBS COS SOM JEWISH ENTREPRENEUR AND BUSINESSMAN PROVIDED THEM WITH JOBS.


-The total cost of this financial aid to US tax payers per Israeli is $23,240.
-Since 1992, the US has offered Israel an additional $2 billion in loan guarantees every year.6
-Nearly all past loans to Israel have been forgiven – leading Israel to claim that they have never defaulted on repayment of a US loan – with most loans made on the understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them.
-In 1997 alone, the total of US grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion, i.e., $15,068,493 per day.

AGAIN PEANUTS.



Capable enough for the oppression and the shit that Israel pulls on them. Israel has the most power in the Mid-east and yet they still struggle and will continue to struggle, lie, propagate,etc.

WELL THE "MOST POWER" DOESNT SEM TO BE ENOUGH TO STOP THE SUICIDE BOMBINGS AND THERE I NO INDICATION THAT TEH ARABS HAVE GIVEN UP HOPE OF TRYING TO WAGE ANOTHER YOM KIPPUR STYLE ATTACK TO WIPE ISRAEL OUT.


I have never defended any of what these crimes commited by the US, I wrote that they are still the world's largest super power and that they are. But that doesn't make them not guilty of oppression and it doesn't clear israel either. They are both guilty, they are perfect for each other, they have taught each other well in crimes against humanity.

AHEM!


Israel has created suicide bombers, suicide bombers are not born they are created.

YES THE HAMAS AND OTHERS RELATD JEHADI OUTFIT CREATE THEM BY BRAIN WASHING IMPRESSIOABLE AND DISAFFECTED YOUTHS.


If Israel is worried about suicide bombers then they should stop creating conditions for these ideas to flourish. Checkpoints, walls, humiliation, degradation, and poverty create suicide bombers not Hamas.


NO THE CHECKPIUNTS ETC PREVENT AND CONTAIN THE SUICIDE BOMBERSHAMAS CREATES.


They know exactly how to end suicide bombing, equal rights for both Palestinian and Israeli.

IT WOULD HAEV HELPED IMMENSELY IF TEH PALESTANIANS HAD NEGOTIATED FOR PEACE INSTEAD OF WAGING WAR AFTER WAR ON ISRAEL AND IF THEY HAD PROPER DIPLOMATS ARGUING THEIR CASE INSTEAD OF ARAFATS AND OTHER TERRORISTS.

But why would they do that, when a suicide bombing means that they get to retaliate and retaliation is the excuse they are looking for to kill more Palestinians.

OH REALLY??

That is there agenda? And you are their spokesperson? So it is okay for zionists to wipe off a country from the map and we have to step aside and let them be above the law and do whatever it is they want. If karma is correct (you believe in karma, don’t you?)

NO.

then they have that coming to them. The Palestinians want one thing and it is recognized by all countries as a basic human right and that this the Right to Return to their homeland. They want rights just as the jews have rights.


PALESTANIANS DONT MAKE FOR GOOD NEIGHBOURS UNFORTUNATELY. ISRAEL HAS THE MOST NUMBER OF DOCTORATES PER 1000 PEOPLE WHILE PALESTINE HAS THE MOST NUMBER OF SUICIDE BOMBERS.


That doesn’t have mean wiping anything off the damn map, but the Jews refuse to give up an inch of what they have thieved.

NOT TRUE. ISRAEL'S BORDER BEFORE THE 6 DAY WAR WAS WELL WITHIN WHAT IT IS NOW. THING IS ONCE THE PALESTANIANS DECLARED THEIR OBJECTIVE OF WANTING TO WIPE ISRAEL OUT AND THEN WAGED WARS TO THAT EFFECT, ISRAEL COULD NOT TRUST THEM ANYMORE. ITS THE LAN BUFFER THEY WON IN THE 6 DAY WAR WHICH SAVED ISRAEL'S SKIN IN THE YOM KIPPUR WAR.



And your point is? That still doesn't make them israeli or zionists. They are americans, americans who contribute to their country, the usa. Just like all races, religions and ethnicities have contributed to the USA, they are no different.

NO THEY ARE NOT, SAVE PERHAPS IN THE DEGREE OF THEIR CONTRIBUTION.

Yes and why didn’t they go to israel? Do you know, since it seems you do know everything, why did they come to the US?

COS ISRAEL WAS ABLOCKED FROM THEM BY CHAMBERLAIN. AND COS USA OFFERED THEM THE OPPERTUNITY TO BECOM BIG SHOTS IN VARIOUS FIELDS (INCLUDING BUSINESS) - SOMETHING BADLY NEEDED TO PULL STRINGS TO FORM ISRAEL AND THEN TO PRESERVE ISRAEL.



Not all jews are Zionists, so he meant that the Zionists control America, you connected it to Bobby Fisher and Hollywood. Not exactly. Through PACS and other means they have infiltrated the U.S. government to steer US Mid-east policy in israel’s favor. So they have politicians in their pockets, not American nobel laureates.


HALF THE AMERICAN NOBL LAUREATES ARE JEWS IN ANY CASE.


And they won't be cutting those puppet strings anytime soon, The US has so much that Israel needs. Yet israel still struggles for something they have usurped.

MEANWHILE USA'S LAND IS NOT USURPED RIGHT?? MANIFEST DESTINY RIGHT??

Being a criminal is not easy, you need lots of help and if its anyone who knows that better, it is Israel.
NO USA. TAKE FOR EXAMPLE THE HELP THEY TOOK FROM OSAMA BIN LADEDN AND THE TALIBAN TO FIGHT THE RUSSIANS.

IndianSummer

El_Kabong wrote:

but how do you know all these dead palestinians were futuristic suicide bombers, especially the 5:1 number for children? that's an awful high number in just a few years...not sure if 'nipping in the bud' is the way i'd choose to describe it.

caught in the act, with part or whol of the bomb-belt sprapped.

intercepted messages, captives speaking out after a bit of tough questioning, etc etc.


and yes, children are many, cos children are what the hamas and opthers target for their brainwashing. the easiest to hogwash afterall.

El_Kabong

IndianSummer wrote:

caught in the act, with part or whol of the bomb-belt sprapped.

intercepted messages, captives speaking out after a bit of tough questioning, etc etc.


and yes, children are many, cos children are what the hamas and opthers target for their brainwashing. the easiest to hogwash afterall.

how many innocents do you think the idf kills?

IndianSummer

El_Kabong wrote:

how many innocents do you think the idf kills?

not many. nothing compared tothe innocents the suicide bombers kill.

El_Kabong

IndianSummer wrote:

not many. nothing compared tothe innocents the suicide bombers kill.

i guess those stories must not be as newsworthy b/c usually when you read an article more innocents were killed...

polaris

all i know is one segment of the population lives a high standard of living and the other does not ...

VivaPalestina

IndianSummer wrote:

WELL NOR HAVE I READ A HISTORY BOOK THAT CONNECTS THE PRESENT DAY MONGOLIANS TO GHANGIZ KHAN. OR THE PRESENT DAY ANGLO SAXONS OF UK AND USA TO THOSE OF SAXONY IN GERMANY. NOR THE PRESENT DAY ARGENTINES AND MEXICANS TO THE PRESENT DAY SPANIARDS. HISTORY MUST BE ALL WRONG !!

Well then you haven’t read much. There is plenty of that history on the Saxons, and the Argentines and the Mexicans. This still doesn’t give me any PROOF about ISRAELIS. The Argentines and the Mongolians are not claiming someone else’s land thousands of miles away, two thousand years later. The Zionists are, so where is the history, where is the proof?

IndianSummer wrote:

AND THEIR DESCENDANTS. cONFUCIOUS THE CHINESE PHILOSOPHER HAS WELL OVER A MILION DESCENDANTS TODAY. NOT MANY. JUDAISM DONT PROSELITYSE LIKE ISLAM OR CHRISTIANITY.

Dude I am sorry, but you are not the smartest person I have ever debated with. That is what we are talking about is their descendants, how many 2000 year old Jews do you know? HOW ARE THE DESCENDANTS CONNECTED, EINSTEIN, WHERE IS THE PROOF? Judaism does not proselytize, so its impossible that there was even ONE convert in the past 2000+ years. Well that one convert, referring to to your Chinese philosopher fact, can have up to one million descendants. Thus NO connection to the jews that were thrown out by the Romans. I may be stretching it here, but I am guessing there was more than one convert in the past 2000 plus years.

IndianSummer wrote:

WHIH AS A PIECE OF HISTORY, IS R-E-A-L-L-Y OF DUBIOUS AUTHENTICITY.

BULLSHIT. I am not a big fan of wikipedia, but this article on the khazars has at least 20 resources at the end. Are all these resources dubious?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar

IndianSummer wrote:

MORE OR LESS. THERE ARE JEWS IN INDIA, WHO FLED AND CAME TO INDIA WHEN THE ROMANS THREW THE 12 LOST TRIBES OUT, AND THEIR DESCENDANTS, THOUGH THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OR HEBREW OR ANYTHING ELSE ISRAELI, HAVE COMPLETE RIGHT OF PASSAGE BACK TO ISRAEL.

Have no knowledge, exactly. And do you think that is just, that someone who has never seen or known of Palestine has the right to take someone else's home, land and livelihood. People who have lived there for generations have less right than those who lived in India for 2000+ years. What a fair and just premise!

IndianSummer wrote:

"Could Palestinians reclaim their looted homes if they all made a mass conversion to Judaism?”
YES.

And this is the belief that Jews have derived from the Torah. If you are Jewish you are allowed to go and take another’s land. The torah is not a real estate document. Israel is supposedly a democracy, the separation of church and state, so the Torah can’t be used in an Israeli court of law, any world court. Meaning that the israelis according to their own democratic laws, have no right to another’s land, JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWISH.

IndianSummer wrote:

PRETTY MUCH THE OPPOSITE. USA WOULNT BE HALF THE COUNTRY IT IS WITHOUT THE CONTRIBUTION OF JEWS. NOR WOULD PRE-NAZI GERMANY AND USSR, BUT THATS A DIFFERENT MATTER. LIKE I SAID THE 3 BILLION USAGIVES TO ISRAEL IS PEANUTS COMPARED TO WHAT USA GETS FROM THE JEWISH PEOPLE.

All races have contributed to the making of America, more than the Jews, I would say the African Americans have contributed above and beyond any race or religious group. The point is, that american jews are making a contribution to their country, the USA. We are not talking about American jews, we are debating Zionists and Israelis and they are not the SAME.

IndianSummer wrote:

AGAIN PEANUTS.

Well Israel is not refusing those peanuts, in fact they always seem to want more peanuts. And if their contribution is so large and the USA wouldn’t be nothing without them….why don’t they just cut the middle man and MAKE THEIR OWN DAMN PEANUTS.

IndianSummer wrote:

HOSE TAX PAYERS MOST PROBABNKLY HAVE JOBS COS SOM JEWISH ENTREPRENEUR AND BUSINESSMAN PROVIDED THEM WITH JOBS.

Yeah, okay. That is just way too dumb to debate.

IndianSummer wrote:

WELL THE "MOST POWER" DOESNT SEM TO BE ENOUGH TO STOP THE SUICIDE BOMBINGS AND THERE I NO INDICATION THAT TEH ARABS HAVE GIVEN UP HOPE OF TRYING TO WAGE ANOTHER YOM KIPPUR STYLE ATTACK TO WIPE ISRAEL OUT.
YES THE HAMAS AND OTHERS RELATD JEHADI OUTFIT CREATE THEM BY BRAIN WASHING IMPRESSIOABLE AND DISAFFECTED YOUTHS. NO THE CHECKPIUNTS ETC PREVENT AND CONTAIN THE SUICIDE BOMBERSHAMAS CREATES.

Disaffected and what creates this disaffection, what creates suicide bombers? There is no brainwashing; the myth of recruiting seems to be an answer that would leave Israel out of any responsibility for placing the Palestinians youth in a situation where there feel there is no end in their suffering. Checkpoints, etc. are not preventing anything. And what about Ehud who said:

"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.

IndianSummer wrote:

IT WOULD HAEV HELPED IMMENSELY IF TEH PALESTANIANS HAD NEGOTIATED FOR PEACE INSTEAD OF WAGING WAR AFTER WAR ON ISRAEL AND IF THEY HAD PROPER DIPLOMATS ARGUING THEIR CASE INSTEAD OF ARAFATS AND OTHER TERRORISTS.

Waging war, with what do they have to wage war with? Tanks, Apaches, m16s, American fighter jets? How can you make peace with those who have usurped your land and yet, you get called the terrorist. Who are the real terrorists? Bulldozing homes, razing trees, checkpoints, tanks in your backyard, idf at your door, arresting your children. Who are the terrorists? Lets ask Benny:

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories” Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

IndianSummer wrote:

PALESTANIANS DONT MAKE FOR GOOD NEIGHBOURS UNFORTUNATELY. ISRAEL HAS THE MOST NUMBER OF DOCTORATES PER 1000 PEOPLE WHILE PALESTINE HAS THE MOST NUMBER OF SUICIDE BOMBERS.

Well then they should have usurped someone else’s land, perhaps Buddhist’s make better neighbors. The Jews came to Palestine not the other way around. How do you get a doctorate or anything for that matter when you are harassed, arrested, prevented from going to school? You want measure an Israeli’s life against a Palestians? One is living under occupation and yet still survives, and yes there are Palestianians who do have doctorates and have other professions despite all that is up against them. Imagine if they had the basic equal rights as Zionists? Most number of suicide bombers? And that number is please? Suicide bombers, terrorists, have you ever been to the West Bank or Gaza, they are people, not walking bombs. They are mothers, fathers, grandparents, children, trying to live their lives, not end them. They want freedom and equal rights, just as the jews have their freedoms. You paint them to be monsters? Why? Because it is easier for Israelis to say they killed a monster rather than a mother or a teenager,etc.

IndianSummer wrote:

NOT TRUE. ISRAEL'S BORDER BEFORE THE 6 DAY WAR WAS WELL WITHIN WHAT IT IS NOW. THING IS ONCE THE PALESTANIANS DECLARED THEIR OBJECTIVE OF WANTING TO WIPE ISRAEL OUT AND THEN WAGED WARS TO THAT EFFECT, ISRAEL COULD NOT TRUST THEM ANYMORE. ITS THE LAN BUFFER THEY WON IN THE 6 DAY WAR WHICH SAVED ISRAEL'S SKIN IN THE YOM KIPPUR WAR.

The West Bank and Gaza are under occupation. The borders are not the same. Israel was built on the land of Palestine, it is the Zionists who have done the "Wiping out." The Right of Return, the End of the occupation are well within the basic human rights of the Palestinians and is recognized by the Geneva Convention and the UN.

IndianSummer wrote:

COS ISRAEL WAS ABLOCKED FROM THEM BY CHAMBERLAIN. AND COS USA OFFERED THEM THE OPPERTUNITY TO BECOM BIG SHOTS IN VARIOUS FIELDS (INCLUDING BUSINESS) - SOMETHING BADLY NEEDED TO PULL STRINGS TO FORM ISRAEL AND THEN TO PRESERVE ISRAEL

So, without the US there would be no Israel, no Big shots.

IndianSummer wrote:

MEANWHILE USA'S LAND IS NOT USURPED RIGHT?? MANIFEST DESTINY RIGHT?? NO USA. TAKE FOR EXAMPLE THE HELP THEY TOOK FROM OSAMA BIN LADEDN AND THE TALIBAN TO FIGHT THE RUSSIANS.

As I have written before, they are partners in crime. As you wrote before, Israel needs the US to preserve it. They need each others help and they both have the morals of leeches, so they are perfect for each other. No false pretense with criminals.

al86dan89

I can't believe I just read all that s--t on the PJ boards...Jew haters eh? ---and I'm sure they aren't the only minority being attacked by you(in private? too nervous to say it out loud?)...wow, good job starting that post, you must be proud--- asshole............