THERE WERENT VERY MANY JEWISH PEOPLE IN TRANSJORDAN BECAUSE THE JEWS WERE THROWN OUT BY THE ROMANS AND PREVENTED FROM COMMING TO PALESTINE BY THE COLON-IAL ENGLISHMEN. THE ASHKENAZI ARE JEWS WHO SETTLED IN GERMANY AND THEREABOUTS WHILE THE SHEPARDIM ARE JEWS WHO ENDED UP IN IBERIA. I DONT KNWO WHATS THE NAME FOR EASTERN EUROPEAN JEWS..
I have never read a history book or known of a history that said that the Ashkenazi Jews, the Sephardic Jews of Iberia, and the eastern European jews are from Palestine and they are tied to the Jews of 2000+ years ago. Maybe history got it wrong, so you can just show me the proof. So back it up, I WANT PROOF, that the Jews of 2000+ years ago are connected to the Jews of today. What about the converts? By your logic and what you have written, only those who were thrown out by the Romans have rights to Palestine. How many Jews have converted in the last 2,000 years? “In other words, assuming that a million people convert to Judaism (which already occurred during the great Jewish Khazrian empire),
Did these new converts magically overnight develop a "unique and special connection" to "Eretz Yisrael"? If your answer is yes,
Could Palestinians reclaim their looted homes if they all made a mass conversion to Judaism?”
DOESNT MATTER. THE USA IS FOR THE MOST PART A RESULT OF BRAIN DRAIN FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, BUILT ON SLAVE LABOUR AND CHEAP IMMIGRANT LABOUR, BUILT ON THE LAND OF HALF A CONTINENT LOOTED THANKS TO A AMERINDIAN GENOCIDE, WITH ABOUT 50 MORE YEARS TO GO. AND THE BIGGEST TERRORISTS FOR THE LAST 60 YEARS
It really does matter that they are the world's biggest power, because without them israel would be nothing. If it wasn't for the US's slave labour, cheap immigrant labor, looting, etc,They wouldn't be able to give israel:
-Since 1949 the US has given Israel a total of $84,854,827,200. The interest costs born by US taxpayers on behalf of Israel are $49,937,000,000 – making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $134,791,507,200 (more than $134 billion).
-The total cost of this financial aid to US tax payers per Israeli is $23,240.
-Since 1992, the US has offered Israel an additional $2 billion in loan guarantees every year.6
-Nearly all past loans to Israel have been forgiven – leading Israel to claim that they have never defaulted on repayment of a US loan – with most loans made on the understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them.
-In 1997 alone, the total of US grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion, i.e., $15,068,493 per day.
Capable enough for the oppression and the shit that Israel pulls on them. Israel has the most power in the Mid-east and yet they still struggle and will continue to struggle, lie, propagate,etc.
WHICH IS NOTHING COMPARED TO THE 3 MILLION VIETNAMESE THE AMERICANS HAVE KILLED, THE THOUSANDS USA HAS NUKED, THE MILLIONS IN CAMBODIA WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LIMBS THANKS TO USA, THE MY LAI, THE ABU GHARIBS AND THE GITMOS. SO - POT, KETTLE, BLACK.
I have never defended any of what these crimes commited by the US, I wrote that they are still the world's largest super power and that they are. But that doesn't make them not guilty of oppression and it doesn't clear israel either. They are both guilty, they are perfect for each other, they have taught each other well in crimes against humanity.
HAMAS USES SUICIDE BOMBERS. ISRAEL IS WORRIED ABPOUT THEM AND TRIES TO STOP THEM..
Israel has created suicide bombers, suicide bombers are not born they are created. If Israel is worried about suicide bombers then they should stop creating conditions for these ideas to flourish. Checkpoints, walls, humiliation, degradation, and poverty create suicide bombers not Hamas. They know exactly how to end suicide bombing, equal rights for both Palestinian and Israeli. But why would they do that, when a suicide bombing means that they get to retaliate and retaliation is the excuse they are looking for to kill more Palestinians.
THEIR DECLARED AGENDA IS TO WIPE OFF ISRAEL FROM THE MAP AND ESTABISH A PALESTANIAN STATE WITH JERUSALEM AS THE CAPITAL.
That is there agenda? And you are their spokesperson? So it is okay for zionists to wipe off a country from the map and we have to step aside and let them be above the law and do whatever it is they want. If karma is correct (you believe in karma, don’t you?) then they have that coming to them. The Palestinians want one thing and it is recognized by all countries as a basic human right and that this the Right to Return to their homeland. They want rights just as the jews have rights. That doesn’t have mean wiping anything off the damn map, but the Jews refuse to give up an inch of what they have thieved.
YES. AND WITHOUT THESE "AMERICAN JEWS" THERE WOULD BE NO NUCLEAR ENEGRY IN USA, NO COMPUTERS, NO GENETICS, NO GOLDMANN SACHS, NO GOOGLE, NO STARBUCKS, AMERICAN NOBEL LAUREATES WOULD BE ABOUT 1/10TH THE NUMBER, THERE WOULD BE NO HOLLYWOOD, NO INTEL ETC ETC.
And your point is? That still doesn't make them israeli or zionists. They are americans, americans who contribute to their country, the usa. Just like all races, religions and ethnicities have contributed to the USA, they are no different.
THATS RIGHT, THESE TOP PLAYERS ARE EUROPEAN JEWS AND THEIR DESCENDANTS WHO FLED EUROPE FOR USA, INSTEAD OF ISRAEL. WHICH IS A BIG STROKE OF LUCK FOR USA.
Yes and why didn’t they go to israel? Do you know, since it seems you do know everything, why did they come to the US?
IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. SHARON MEANT THAT JEWS IN AMERICA.... CONTROL AMERICA.
PERHAPS NOT. HE HAD THE WALL STREET, THE MEDIA MUGALS, THE AMERICAN POLICY MAKERS, AND FINANCE TOP GUNS LIKE - BEN SHALOM BERNANKE, AND ALLAN GREENSPAN, PAUL WOLFOWITZ AND WOFLHANSEN IN MIND. HE HAD THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE USA LIKE A PUPPET ON A CHAIN IN MIND.
Not all jews are Zionists, so he meant that the Zionists control America, you connected it to Bobby Fisher and Hollywood. Not exactly. Through PACS and other means they have infiltrated the U.S. government to steer US Mid-east policy in israel’s favor. So they have politicians in their pockets, not American nobel laureates.
And they won't be cutting those puppet strings anytime soon, The US has so much that Israel needs. Yet israel still struggles for something they have usurped. Being a criminal is not easy, you need lots of help and if its anyone who knows that better, it is Israel.
wel the israelis prevent more than 80% of all attempted suicide bombings. fact.
so while the only israeli victims are those of the bombers who are successful, the israelis (idf, shin bet, mossad et al) have to prevent/liquidate/nullify/nail down the would be suicide bomber after thwarting his or her attempt, cos for sure the jehadi is going to try one more time. israeli jails are full of suicide bombers caught red handed and one of the first things they try to understand is the mentality of those people, what makes them want to commit suicide bombers (often they are impressionable younths who are lured into this kind of stuff by hamas and other groups with the promise of virgins, money whatever - this comes from the horse's mouth - ie. from failed suicide bombers and from "Defectors' - people who were once ready to carry out the bombing but had a change of mind/heart at the last moment, and now the hamas is after them for doing this "trechery"), and whats their network like (which is how israel comes to know about the tunnels used to ferry the bomb materials).
if israelis were not so good at nipping the bombings in the bud, 5 times the number of israelis would be dying every year, and a lot more suicide bombers would be walking free.
but how do you know all these dead palestinians were futuristic suicide bombers, especially the 5:1 number for children? that's an awful high number in just a few years...not sure if 'nipping in the bud' is the way i'd choose to describe it.
i'm sure ppl get captured...captured is one thing, a massive number killed is entirely another.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I have never read a history book or known of a history that said that the Ashkenazi Jews, the Sephardic Jews of Iberia, and the eastern European jews are from Palestine and they are tied to the Jews of 2000+ years ago.Maybe history got it wrong, so you can just show me the proof.
WELL NOR HAVE I READ A HISTORY BOOK THAT CONNECTS THE PRESENT DAY MONGOLIANS TO GHANGIZ KHAN. OR THE PRESENT DAY ANGLO SAXONS OF UK AND USA TO THOSE OF SAXONY IN GERMANY. NOR THE PRESENT DAY ARGENTINES AND MEXICANS TO THE PRESENT DAY SPANIARDS. HISTORY MUST BE ALL WRONG !!
So back it up, I WANT PROOF, that the Jews of 2000+ years ago are connected to the Jews of today. What about the converts? By your logic and what you have written, only those who were thrown out by the Romans have rights to Palestine.
AND THEIR DESCENDANTS. cONFUCIOUS THE CHINESE PHILOSOPHER HAS WELL OVER A MILION DESCENDANTS TODAY.
How many Jews have converted in the last 2,000 years?
NOT MANY. JUDAISM DONT PROSELITYSE LIKE ISLAM OR CHRISTIANITY.
“In other words, assuming that a million people convert to Judaism (which already occurred during the great Jewish Khazrian empire),
WHIH AS A PIECE OF HISTORY, IS R-E-A-L-L-Y OF DUBIOUS AUTHENTICITY.
Did these new converts magically overnight develop a "unique and special connection" to "Eretz Yisrael"?
MORE OR LESS. THERE ARE JEWS IN INDIA, WHO FLED AND CAME TO INDIA WHEN THE ROMANS THREW THE 12 LOST TRIBES OUT, AND THEIR DESCENDANTS, THOUGH THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OR HEBREW OR ANYTHING ELSE ISRAELI, HAVE COMPLETE RIGHT OF PASSAGE BACK TO ISRAEL.
If your answer is yes,
Could Palestinians reclaim their looted homes if they all made a mass conversion to Judaism?”
YES.
It really does matter that they are the world's biggest power, because without them israel would be nothing.
PRETTY MUCH THE OPPOSITE. USA WOULNT BE HALF THE COUNTRY IT IS WITHOUT THE CONTRIBUTION OF JEWS. NOR WOULD PRE-NAZI GERMANY AND USSR, BUT THATS A DIFFERENT MATTER.
If it wasn't for the US's slave labour, cheap immigrant labor, looting, etc,They wouldn't be able to give israel:
LIKE I SAID THE 3 BILLION USAGIVES TO ISRAEL IS PEANUTS COMPARED TO WHAT USA GETS FROM THE JEWISH PEOPLE.
-Since 1949 the US has given Israel a total of $84,854,827,200. The interest costs born by US taxpayers on behalf of Israel are $49,937,000,000 – making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $134,791,507,200 (more than $134 billion).
THOSE TAX PAYERS MOST PROBABNKLY HAVE JOBS COS SOM JEWISH ENTREPRENEUR AND BUSINESSMAN PROVIDED THEM WITH JOBS.
-The total cost of this financial aid to US tax payers per Israeli is $23,240.
-Since 1992, the US has offered Israel an additional $2 billion in loan guarantees every year.6
-Nearly all past loans to Israel have been forgiven – leading Israel to claim that they have never defaulted on repayment of a US loan – with most loans made on the understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them.
-In 1997 alone, the total of US grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion, i.e., $15,068,493 per day.
AGAIN PEANUTS.
Capable enough for the oppression and the shit that Israel pulls on them. Israel has the most power in the Mid-east and yet they still struggle and will continue to struggle, lie, propagate,etc.
WELL THE "MOST POWER" DOESNT SEM TO BE ENOUGH TO STOP THE SUICIDE BOMBINGS AND THERE I NO INDICATION THAT TEH ARABS HAVE GIVEN UP HOPE OF TRYING TO WAGE ANOTHER YOM KIPPUR STYLE ATTACK TO WIPE ISRAEL OUT.
I have never defended any of what these crimes commited by the US, I wrote that they are still the world's largest super power and that they are. But that doesn't make them not guilty of oppression and it doesn't clear israel either. They are both guilty, they are perfect for each other, they have taught each other well in crimes against humanity.
AHEM!
Israel has created suicide bombers, suicide bombers are not born they are created.
YES THE HAMAS AND OTHERS RELATD JEHADI OUTFIT CREATE THEM BY BRAIN WASHING IMPRESSIOABLE AND DISAFFECTED YOUTHS.
If Israel is worried about suicide bombers then they should stop creating conditions for these ideas to flourish. Checkpoints, walls, humiliation, degradation, and poverty create suicide bombers not Hamas.
NO THE CHECKPIUNTS ETC PREVENT AND CONTAIN THE SUICIDE BOMBERSHAMAS CREATES.
They know exactly how to end suicide bombing, equal rights for both Palestinian and Israeli.
IT WOULD HAEV HELPED IMMENSELY IF TEH PALESTANIANS HAD NEGOTIATED FOR PEACE INSTEAD OF WAGING WAR AFTER WAR ON ISRAEL AND IF THEY HAD PROPER DIPLOMATS ARGUING THEIR CASE INSTEAD OF ARAFATS AND OTHER TERRORISTS.
But why would they do that, when a suicide bombing means that they get to retaliate and retaliation is the excuse they are looking for to kill more Palestinians.
OH REALLY??
That is there agenda? And you are their spokesperson? So it is okay for zionists to wipe off a country from the map and we have to step aside and let them be above the law and do whatever it is they want. If karma is correct (you believe in karma, don’t you?)
NO.
then they have that coming to them. The Palestinians want one thing and it is recognized by all countries as a basic human right and that this the Right to Return to their homeland. They want rights just as the jews have rights.
PALESTANIANS DONT MAKE FOR GOOD NEIGHBOURS UNFORTUNATELY. ISRAEL HAS THE MOST NUMBER OF DOCTORATES PER 1000 PEOPLE WHILE PALESTINE HAS THE MOST NUMBER OF SUICIDE BOMBERS.
That doesn’t have mean wiping anything off the damn map, but the Jews refuse to give up an inch of what they have thieved.
NOT TRUE. ISRAEL'S BORDER BEFORE THE 6 DAY WAR WAS WELL WITHIN WHAT IT IS NOW. THING IS ONCE THE PALESTANIANS DECLARED THEIR OBJECTIVE OF WANTING TO WIPE ISRAEL OUT AND THEN WAGED WARS TO THAT EFFECT, ISRAEL COULD NOT TRUST THEM ANYMORE. ITS THE LAN BUFFER THEY WON IN THE 6 DAY WAR WHICH SAVED ISRAEL'S SKIN IN THE YOM KIPPUR WAR.
And your point is? That still doesn't make them israeli or zionists. They are americans, americans who contribute to their country, the usa. Just like all races, religions and ethnicities have contributed to the USA, they are no different.
NO THEY ARE NOT, SAVE PERHAPS IN THE DEGREE OF THEIR CONTRIBUTION.
Yes and why didn’t they go to israel? Do you know, since it seems you do know everything, why did they come to the US?
COS ISRAEL WAS ABLOCKED FROM THEM BY CHAMBERLAIN. AND COS USA OFFERED THEM THE OPPERTUNITY TO BECOM BIG SHOTS IN VARIOUS FIELDS (INCLUDING BUSINESS) - SOMETHING BADLY NEEDED TO PULL STRINGS TO FORM ISRAEL AND THEN TO PRESERVE ISRAEL.
Not all jews are Zionists, so he meant that the Zionists control America, you connected it to Bobby Fisher and Hollywood. Not exactly. Through PACS and other means they have infiltrated the U.S. government to steer US Mid-east policy in israel’s favor. So they have politicians in their pockets, not American nobel laureates.
HALF THE AMERICAN NOBL LAUREATES ARE JEWS IN ANY CASE.
And they won't be cutting those puppet strings anytime soon, The US has so much that Israel needs. Yet israel still struggles for something they have usurped.
MEANWHILE USA'S LAND IS NOT USURPED RIGHT?? MANIFEST DESTINY RIGHT??
Being a criminal is not easy, you need lots of help and if its anyone who knows that better, it is Israel.
NO USA. TAKE FOR EXAMPLE THE HELP THEY TOOK FROM OSAMA BIN LADEDN AND THE TALIBAN TO FIGHT THE RUSSIANS.
I have faced it, A life wasted...
Take my hand, my child of love
Come step inside my tears
Swim the magic ocean,
I've been crying all these years
but how do you know all these dead palestinians were futuristic suicide bombers, especially the 5:1 number for children? that's an awful high number in just a few years...not sure if 'nipping in the bud' is the way i'd choose to describe it.
caught in the act, with part or whol of the bomb-belt sprapped.
intercepted messages, captives speaking out after a bit of tough questioning, etc etc.
and yes, children are many, cos children are what the hamas and opthers target for their brainwashing. the easiest to hogwash afterall.
I have faced it, A life wasted...
Take my hand, my child of love
Come step inside my tears
Swim the magic ocean,
I've been crying all these years
caught in the act, with part or whol of the bomb-belt sprapped.
intercepted messages, captives speaking out after a bit of tough questioning, etc etc.
and yes, children are many, cos children are what the hamas and opthers target for their brainwashing. the easiest to hogwash afterall.
how many innocents do you think the idf kills?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
not many. nothing compared tothe innocents the suicide bombers kill.
i guess those stories must not be as newsworthy b/c usually when you read an article more innocents were killed...
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
WELL NOR HAVE I READ A HISTORY BOOK THAT CONNECTS THE PRESENT DAY MONGOLIANS TO GHANGIZ KHAN. OR THE PRESENT DAY ANGLO SAXONS OF UK AND USA TO THOSE OF SAXONY IN GERMANY. NOR THE PRESENT DAY ARGENTINES AND MEXICANS TO THE PRESENT DAY SPANIARDS. HISTORY MUST BE ALL WRONG !!
Well then you haven’t read much. There is plenty of that history on the Saxons, and the Argentines and the Mexicans. This still doesn’t give me any PROOF about ISRAELIS. The Argentines and the Mongolians are not claiming someone else’s land thousands of miles away, two thousand years later. The Zionists are, so where is the history, where is the proof?
AND THEIR DESCENDANTS. cONFUCIOUS THE CHINESE PHILOSOPHER HAS WELL OVER A MILION DESCENDANTS TODAY. NOT MANY. JUDAISM DONT PROSELITYSE LIKE ISLAM OR CHRISTIANITY.
Dude I am sorry, but you are not the smartest person I have ever debated with. That is what we are talking about is their descendants, how many 2000 year old Jews do you know? HOW ARE THE DESCENDANTS CONNECTED, EINSTEIN, WHERE IS THE PROOF? Judaism does not proselytize, so its impossible that there was even ONE convert in the past 2000+ years. Well that one convert, referring to to your Chinese philosopher fact, can have up to one million descendants. Thus NO connection to the jews that were thrown out by the Romans. I may be stretching it here, but I am guessing there was more than one convert in the past 2000 plus years.
WHIH AS A PIECE OF HISTORY, IS R-E-A-L-L-Y OF DUBIOUS AUTHENTICITY.
BULLSHIT. I am not a big fan of wikipedia, but this article on the khazars has at least 20 resources at the end. Are all these resources dubious? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar
MORE OR LESS. THERE ARE JEWS IN INDIA, WHO FLED AND CAME TO INDIA WHEN THE ROMANS THREW THE 12 LOST TRIBES OUT, AND THEIR DESCENDANTS, THOUGH THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OR HEBREW OR ANYTHING ELSE ISRAELI, HAVE COMPLETE RIGHT OF PASSAGE BACK TO ISRAEL.
Have no knowledge, exactly. And do you think that is just, that someone who has never seen or known of Palestine has the right to take someone else's home, land and livelihood. People who have lived there for generations have less right than those who lived in India for 2000+ years. What a fair and just premise!
"Could Palestinians reclaim their looted homes if they all made a mass conversion to Judaism?”
YES.
And this is the belief that Jews have derived from the Torah. If you are Jewish you are allowed to go and take another’s land. The torah is not a real estate document. Israel is supposedly a democracy, the separation of church and state, so the Torah can’t be used in an Israeli court of law, any world court. Meaning that the israelis according to their own democratic laws, have no right to another’s land, JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWISH.
PRETTY MUCH THE OPPOSITE. USA WOULNT BE HALF THE COUNTRY IT IS WITHOUT THE CONTRIBUTION OF JEWS. NOR WOULD PRE-NAZI GERMANY AND USSR, BUT THATS A DIFFERENT MATTER. LIKE I SAID THE 3 BILLION USAGIVES TO ISRAEL IS PEANUTS COMPARED TO WHAT USA GETS FROM THE JEWISH PEOPLE.
All races have contributed to the making of America, more than the Jews, I would say the African Americans have contributed above and beyond any race or religious group. The point is, that american jews are making a contribution to their country, the USA. We are not talking about American jews, we are debating Zionists and Israelis and they are not the SAME.
Well Israel is not refusing those peanuts, in fact they always seem to want more peanuts. And if their contribution is so large and the USA wouldn’t be nothing without them….why don’t they just cut the middle man and MAKE THEIR OWN DAMN PEANUTS.
WELL THE "MOST POWER" DOESNT SEM TO BE ENOUGH TO STOP THE SUICIDE BOMBINGS AND THERE I NO INDICATION THAT TEH ARABS HAVE GIVEN UP HOPE OF TRYING TO WAGE ANOTHER YOM KIPPUR STYLE ATTACK TO WIPE ISRAEL OUT.
YES THE HAMAS AND OTHERS RELATD JEHADI OUTFIT CREATE THEM BY BRAIN WASHING IMPRESSIOABLE AND DISAFFECTED YOUTHS. NO THE CHECKPIUNTS ETC PREVENT AND CONTAIN THE SUICIDE BOMBERSHAMAS CREATES.
Disaffected and what creates this disaffection, what creates suicide bombers? There is no brainwashing; the myth of recruiting seems to be an answer that would leave Israel out of any responsibility for placing the Palestinians youth in a situation where there feel there is no end in their suffering. Checkpoints, etc. are not preventing anything. And what about Ehud who said:
"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.
IT WOULD HAEV HELPED IMMENSELY IF TEH PALESTANIANS HAD NEGOTIATED FOR PEACE INSTEAD OF WAGING WAR AFTER WAR ON ISRAEL AND IF THEY HAD PROPER DIPLOMATS ARGUING THEIR CASE INSTEAD OF ARAFATS AND OTHER TERRORISTS.
Waging war, with what do they have to wage war with? Tanks, Apaches, m16s, American fighter jets? How can you make peace with those who have usurped your land and yet, you get called the terrorist. Who are the real terrorists? Bulldozing homes, razing trees, checkpoints, tanks in your backyard, idf at your door, arresting your children. Who are the terrorists? Lets ask Benny:
"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories” Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.
PALESTANIANS DONT MAKE FOR GOOD NEIGHBOURS UNFORTUNATELY. ISRAEL HAS THE MOST NUMBER OF DOCTORATES PER 1000 PEOPLE WHILE PALESTINE HAS THE MOST NUMBER OF SUICIDE BOMBERS.
Well then they should have usurped someone else’s land, perhaps Buddhist’s make better neighbors. The Jews came to Palestine not the other way around. How do you get a doctorate or anything for that matter when you are harassed, arrested, prevented from going to school? You want measure an Israeli’s life against a Palestians? One is living under occupation and yet still survives, and yes there are Palestianians who do have doctorates and have other professions despite all that is up against them. Imagine if they had the basic equal rights as Zionists? Most number of suicide bombers? And that number is please? Suicide bombers, terrorists, have you ever been to the West Bank or Gaza, they are people, not walking bombs. They are mothers, fathers, grandparents, children, trying to live their lives, not end them. They want freedom and equal rights, just as the jews have their freedoms. You paint them to be monsters? Why? Because it is easier for Israelis to say they killed a monster rather than a mother or a teenager,etc.
NOT TRUE. ISRAEL'S BORDER BEFORE THE 6 DAY WAR WAS WELL WITHIN WHAT IT IS NOW. THING IS ONCE THE PALESTANIANS DECLARED THEIR OBJECTIVE OF WANTING TO WIPE ISRAEL OUT AND THEN WAGED WARS TO THAT EFFECT, ISRAEL COULD NOT TRUST THEM ANYMORE. ITS THE LAN BUFFER THEY WON IN THE 6 DAY WAR WHICH SAVED ISRAEL'S SKIN IN THE YOM KIPPUR WAR.
The West Bank and Gaza are under occupation. The borders are not the same. Israel was built on the land of Palestine, it is the Zionists who have done the "Wiping out." The Right of Return, the End of the occupation are well within the basic human rights of the Palestinians and is recognized by the Geneva Convention and the UN.
COS ISRAEL WAS ABLOCKED FROM THEM BY CHAMBERLAIN. AND COS USA OFFERED THEM THE OPPERTUNITY TO BECOM BIG SHOTS IN VARIOUS FIELDS (INCLUDING BUSINESS) - SOMETHING BADLY NEEDED TO PULL STRINGS TO FORM ISRAEL AND THEN TO PRESERVE ISRAEL
So, without the US there would be no Israel, no Big shots.
MEANWHILE USA'S LAND IS NOT USURPED RIGHT?? MANIFEST DESTINY RIGHT?? NO USA. TAKE FOR EXAMPLE THE HELP THEY TOOK FROM OSAMA BIN LADEDN AND THE TALIBAN TO FIGHT THE RUSSIANS.
As I have written before, they are partners in crime. As you wrote before, Israel needs the US to preserve it. They need each others help and they both have the morals of leeches, so they are perfect for each other. No false pretense with criminals.
I can't believe I just read all that s--t on the PJ boards...Jew haters eh? ---and I'm sure they aren't the only minority being attacked by you(in private? too nervous to say it out loud?)...wow, good job starting that post, you must be proud--- asshole............
I can't believe I just read all that s--t on the PJ boards...Jew haters eh? ---and I'm sure they aren't the only minority being attacked by you(in private? too nervous to say it out loud?)...wow, good job starting that post, you must be proud--- asshole............
I can't believe I just read all that s--t on the PJ boards...Jew haters eh? ---and I'm sure they aren't the only minority being attacked by you(in private? too nervous to say it out loud?)...wow, good job starting that post, you must be proud--- asshole............
DPrival78 should be proud. Criticizing zionists and Israel does not mean you hate jews!! Not all jews are zionists. Ever heard of Norman G. Finkelstein, son of Holocaust survivors? Well the things said on this thread don't even scratch the surface of what this man has authored on Zionists. I hate the idea that just because that someone criticizes zionists that automatically makes them a card carrying member of the KKK. If you really take a look at this thread you will find that those defending israel have more in common with racists than those that you have wrongfully labeled "jew haters."
my reply was for DPRIVAL78 for posting 911-israeli connection only... you did notice the author of that crap chose to remain anonymous didn't you? I don't "side" with the zionists, infact I feel they are as heinous as any other fanatical religious group... I just don't believe posting that and asking if maybe we are not blaming the right people for 911 isn't a transparent attempt at racism....I am a Bush hating, against the war, liberal though...oh yeah, and I'm not jewish (or any other religion for that matter).... I just hate lies being held up as truth.... don't we have enough of that already?
I can't believe I just read all that s--t on the PJ boards...Jew haters eh? ---and I'm sure they aren't the only minority being attacked by you(in private? too nervous to say it out loud?)...wow, good job starting that post, you must be proud--- asshole............
i've said more than once in this thread that i am not anti-jew, and that was not the point of bringing this topic up.
thanks for contributing something intelligent to the discussion though...
have a nice day
i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
my reply was for DPRIVAL78 for posting 911-israeli connection only... you did notice the author of that crap chose to remain anonymous didn't you? I don't "side" with the zionists, infact I feel they are as heinous as any other fanatical religious group... I just don't believe posting that and asking if maybe we are not blaming the right people for 911 isn't a transparent attempt at racism....I am a Bush hating, against the war, liberal though...oh yeah, and I'm not jewish (or any other religion for that matter).... I just hate lies being held up as truth.... don't we have enough of that already?
Well your criticism of DPRIVAL78 just needs a little bit more backing up than calling it lies, he provided articles, quotes and is trying to create a discussion. You on the other hand came in with the label of "jew haters" and labels are dangerous and counterproductive.
o.k.... now that link is the kind of information i'd rather see out there... it actually gives you a point of view without descending into a thinly veiled message of hate.... thanks...
Comments
I have never read a history book or known of a history that said that the Ashkenazi Jews, the Sephardic Jews of Iberia, and the eastern European jews are from Palestine and they are tied to the Jews of 2000+ years ago. Maybe history got it wrong, so you can just show me the proof. So back it up, I WANT PROOF, that the Jews of 2000+ years ago are connected to the Jews of today. What about the converts? By your logic and what you have written, only those who were thrown out by the Romans have rights to Palestine. How many Jews have converted in the last 2,000 years? “In other words, assuming that a million people convert to Judaism (which already occurred during the great Jewish Khazrian empire),
Did these new converts magically overnight develop a "unique and special connection" to "Eretz Yisrael"? If your answer is yes,
Could Palestinians reclaim their looted homes if they all made a mass conversion to Judaism?”
It really does matter that they are the world's biggest power, because without them israel would be nothing. If it wasn't for the US's slave labour, cheap immigrant labor, looting, etc,They wouldn't be able to give israel:
-Since 1949 the US has given Israel a total of $84,854,827,200. The interest costs born by US taxpayers on behalf of Israel are $49,937,000,000 – making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $134,791,507,200 (more than $134 billion).
-The total cost of this financial aid to US tax payers per Israeli is $23,240.
-Since 1992, the US has offered Israel an additional $2 billion in loan guarantees every year.6
-Nearly all past loans to Israel have been forgiven – leading Israel to claim that they have never defaulted on repayment of a US loan – with most loans made on the understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them.
-In 1997 alone, the total of US grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion, i.e., $15,068,493 per day.
PROVE IT.
Capable enough for the oppression and the shit that Israel pulls on them. Israel has the most power in the Mid-east and yet they still struggle and will continue to struggle, lie, propagate,etc.
I have never defended any of what these crimes commited by the US, I wrote that they are still the world's largest super power and that they are. But that doesn't make them not guilty of oppression and it doesn't clear israel either. They are both guilty, they are perfect for each other, they have taught each other well in crimes against humanity.
Israel has created suicide bombers, suicide bombers are not born they are created. If Israel is worried about suicide bombers then they should stop creating conditions for these ideas to flourish. Checkpoints, walls, humiliation, degradation, and poverty create suicide bombers not Hamas. They know exactly how to end suicide bombing, equal rights for both Palestinian and Israeli. But why would they do that, when a suicide bombing means that they get to retaliate and retaliation is the excuse they are looking for to kill more Palestinians.
That is there agenda? And you are their spokesperson? So it is okay for zionists to wipe off a country from the map and we have to step aside and let them be above the law and do whatever it is they want. If karma is correct (you believe in karma, don’t you?) then they have that coming to them. The Palestinians want one thing and it is recognized by all countries as a basic human right and that this the Right to Return to their homeland. They want rights just as the jews have rights. That doesn’t have mean wiping anything off the damn map, but the Jews refuse to give up an inch of what they have thieved.
And your point is? That still doesn't make them israeli or zionists. They are americans, americans who contribute to their country, the usa. Just like all races, religions and ethnicities have contributed to the USA, they are no different. Yes and why didn’t they go to israel? Do you know, since it seems you do know everything, why did they come to the US?
Not all jews are Zionists, so he meant that the Zionists control America, you connected it to Bobby Fisher and Hollywood. Not exactly. Through PACS and other means they have infiltrated the U.S. government to steer US Mid-east policy in israel’s favor. So they have politicians in their pockets, not American nobel laureates.
And they won't be cutting those puppet strings anytime soon, The US has so much that Israel needs. Yet israel still struggles for something they have usurped. Being a criminal is not easy, you need lots of help and if its anyone who knows that better, it is Israel.
And your point is?
but how do you know all these dead palestinians were futuristic suicide bombers, especially the 5:1 number for children? that's an awful high number in just a few years...not sure if 'nipping in the bud' is the way i'd choose to describe it.
i'm sure ppl get captured...captured is one thing, a massive number killed is entirely another.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
WELL NOR HAVE I READ A HISTORY BOOK THAT CONNECTS THE PRESENT DAY MONGOLIANS TO GHANGIZ KHAN. OR THE PRESENT DAY ANGLO SAXONS OF UK AND USA TO THOSE OF SAXONY IN GERMANY. NOR THE PRESENT DAY ARGENTINES AND MEXICANS TO THE PRESENT DAY SPANIARDS. HISTORY MUST BE ALL WRONG !!
So back it up, I WANT PROOF, that the Jews of 2000+ years ago are connected to the Jews of today. What about the converts? By your logic and what you have written, only those who were thrown out by the Romans have rights to Palestine.
AND THEIR DESCENDANTS. cONFUCIOUS THE CHINESE PHILOSOPHER HAS WELL OVER A MILION DESCENDANTS TODAY.
How many Jews have converted in the last 2,000 years?
NOT MANY. JUDAISM DONT PROSELITYSE LIKE ISLAM OR CHRISTIANITY.
“In other words, assuming that a million people convert to Judaism (which already occurred during the great Jewish Khazrian empire),
WHIH AS A PIECE OF HISTORY, IS R-E-A-L-L-Y OF DUBIOUS AUTHENTICITY.
Did these new converts magically overnight develop a "unique and special connection" to "Eretz Yisrael"?
MORE OR LESS. THERE ARE JEWS IN INDIA, WHO FLED AND CAME TO INDIA WHEN THE ROMANS THREW THE 12 LOST TRIBES OUT, AND THEIR DESCENDANTS, THOUGH THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OR HEBREW OR ANYTHING ELSE ISRAELI, HAVE COMPLETE RIGHT OF PASSAGE BACK TO ISRAEL.
If your answer is yes,
Could Palestinians reclaim their looted homes if they all made a mass conversion to Judaism?”
YES.
It really does matter that they are the world's biggest power, because without them israel would be nothing.
PRETTY MUCH THE OPPOSITE. USA WOULNT BE HALF THE COUNTRY IT IS WITHOUT THE CONTRIBUTION OF JEWS. NOR WOULD PRE-NAZI GERMANY AND USSR, BUT THATS A DIFFERENT MATTER.
If it wasn't for the US's slave labour, cheap immigrant labor, looting, etc,They wouldn't be able to give israel:
LIKE I SAID THE 3 BILLION USAGIVES TO ISRAEL IS PEANUTS COMPARED TO WHAT USA GETS FROM THE JEWISH PEOPLE.
-Since 1949 the US has given Israel a total of $84,854,827,200. The interest costs born by US taxpayers on behalf of Israel are $49,937,000,000 – making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $134,791,507,200 (more than $134 billion).
THOSE TAX PAYERS MOST PROBABNKLY HAVE JOBS COS SOM JEWISH ENTREPRENEUR AND BUSINESSMAN PROVIDED THEM WITH JOBS.
-The total cost of this financial aid to US tax payers per Israeli is $23,240.
-Since 1992, the US has offered Israel an additional $2 billion in loan guarantees every year.6
-Nearly all past loans to Israel have been forgiven – leading Israel to claim that they have never defaulted on repayment of a US loan – with most loans made on the understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them.
-In 1997 alone, the total of US grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion, i.e., $15,068,493 per day.
AGAIN PEANUTS.
Capable enough for the oppression and the shit that Israel pulls on them. Israel has the most power in the Mid-east and yet they still struggle and will continue to struggle, lie, propagate,etc.
WELL THE "MOST POWER" DOESNT SEM TO BE ENOUGH TO STOP THE SUICIDE BOMBINGS AND THERE I NO INDICATION THAT TEH ARABS HAVE GIVEN UP HOPE OF TRYING TO WAGE ANOTHER YOM KIPPUR STYLE ATTACK TO WIPE ISRAEL OUT.
I have never defended any of what these crimes commited by the US, I wrote that they are still the world's largest super power and that they are. But that doesn't make them not guilty of oppression and it doesn't clear israel either. They are both guilty, they are perfect for each other, they have taught each other well in crimes against humanity.
AHEM!
Israel has created suicide bombers, suicide bombers are not born they are created.
YES THE HAMAS AND OTHERS RELATD JEHADI OUTFIT CREATE THEM BY BRAIN WASHING IMPRESSIOABLE AND DISAFFECTED YOUTHS.
If Israel is worried about suicide bombers then they should stop creating conditions for these ideas to flourish. Checkpoints, walls, humiliation, degradation, and poverty create suicide bombers not Hamas.
NO THE CHECKPIUNTS ETC PREVENT AND CONTAIN THE SUICIDE BOMBERSHAMAS CREATES.
They know exactly how to end suicide bombing, equal rights for both Palestinian and Israeli.
IT WOULD HAEV HELPED IMMENSELY IF TEH PALESTANIANS HAD NEGOTIATED FOR PEACE INSTEAD OF WAGING WAR AFTER WAR ON ISRAEL AND IF THEY HAD PROPER DIPLOMATS ARGUING THEIR CASE INSTEAD OF ARAFATS AND OTHER TERRORISTS.
But why would they do that, when a suicide bombing means that they get to retaliate and retaliation is the excuse they are looking for to kill more Palestinians.
OH REALLY??
That is there agenda? And you are their spokesperson? So it is okay for zionists to wipe off a country from the map and we have to step aside and let them be above the law and do whatever it is they want. If karma is correct (you believe in karma, don’t you?)
NO.
then they have that coming to them. The Palestinians want one thing and it is recognized by all countries as a basic human right and that this the Right to Return to their homeland. They want rights just as the jews have rights.
PALESTANIANS DONT MAKE FOR GOOD NEIGHBOURS UNFORTUNATELY. ISRAEL HAS THE MOST NUMBER OF DOCTORATES PER 1000 PEOPLE WHILE PALESTINE HAS THE MOST NUMBER OF SUICIDE BOMBERS.
That doesn’t have mean wiping anything off the damn map, but the Jews refuse to give up an inch of what they have thieved.
NOT TRUE. ISRAEL'S BORDER BEFORE THE 6 DAY WAR WAS WELL WITHIN WHAT IT IS NOW. THING IS ONCE THE PALESTANIANS DECLARED THEIR OBJECTIVE OF WANTING TO WIPE ISRAEL OUT AND THEN WAGED WARS TO THAT EFFECT, ISRAEL COULD NOT TRUST THEM ANYMORE. ITS THE LAN BUFFER THEY WON IN THE 6 DAY WAR WHICH SAVED ISRAEL'S SKIN IN THE YOM KIPPUR WAR.
And your point is? That still doesn't make them israeli or zionists. They are americans, americans who contribute to their country, the usa. Just like all races, religions and ethnicities have contributed to the USA, they are no different.
NO THEY ARE NOT, SAVE PERHAPS IN THE DEGREE OF THEIR CONTRIBUTION.
Yes and why didn’t they go to israel? Do you know, since it seems you do know everything, why did they come to the US?
COS ISRAEL WAS ABLOCKED FROM THEM BY CHAMBERLAIN. AND COS USA OFFERED THEM THE OPPERTUNITY TO BECOM BIG SHOTS IN VARIOUS FIELDS (INCLUDING BUSINESS) - SOMETHING BADLY NEEDED TO PULL STRINGS TO FORM ISRAEL AND THEN TO PRESERVE ISRAEL.
Not all jews are Zionists, so he meant that the Zionists control America, you connected it to Bobby Fisher and Hollywood. Not exactly. Through PACS and other means they have infiltrated the U.S. government to steer US Mid-east policy in israel’s favor. So they have politicians in their pockets, not American nobel laureates.
HALF THE AMERICAN NOBL LAUREATES ARE JEWS IN ANY CASE.
And they won't be cutting those puppet strings anytime soon, The US has so much that Israel needs. Yet israel still struggles for something they have usurped.
MEANWHILE USA'S LAND IS NOT USURPED RIGHT?? MANIFEST DESTINY RIGHT??
Being a criminal is not easy, you need lots of help and if its anyone who knows that better, it is Israel.
NO USA. TAKE FOR EXAMPLE THE HELP THEY TOOK FROM OSAMA BIN LADEDN AND THE TALIBAN TO FIGHT THE RUSSIANS.
Take my hand, my child of love
Come step inside my tears
Swim the magic ocean,
I've been crying all these years
intercepted messages, captives speaking out after a bit of tough questioning, etc etc.
and yes, children are many, cos children are what the hamas and opthers target for their brainwashing. the easiest to hogwash afterall.
Take my hand, my child of love
Come step inside my tears
Swim the magic ocean,
I've been crying all these years
how many innocents do you think the idf kills?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Take my hand, my child of love
Come step inside my tears
Swim the magic ocean,
I've been crying all these years
i guess those stories must not be as newsworthy b/c usually when you read an article more innocents were killed...
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Well then you haven’t read much. There is plenty of that history on the Saxons, and the Argentines and the Mexicans. This still doesn’t give me any PROOF about ISRAELIS. The Argentines and the Mongolians are not claiming someone else’s land thousands of miles away, two thousand years later. The Zionists are, so where is the history, where is the proof?
Dude I am sorry, but you are not the smartest person I have ever debated with. That is what we are talking about is their descendants, how many 2000 year old Jews do you know? HOW ARE THE DESCENDANTS CONNECTED, EINSTEIN, WHERE IS THE PROOF? Judaism does not proselytize, so its impossible that there was even ONE convert in the past 2000+ years. Well that one convert, referring to to your Chinese philosopher fact, can have up to one million descendants. Thus NO connection to the jews that were thrown out by the Romans. I may be stretching it here, but I am guessing there was more than one convert in the past 2000 plus years.
BULLSHIT. I am not a big fan of wikipedia, but this article on the khazars has at least 20 resources at the end. Are all these resources dubious?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar
Have no knowledge, exactly. And do you think that is just, that someone who has never seen or known of Palestine has the right to take someone else's home, land and livelihood. People who have lived there for generations have less right than those who lived in India for 2000+ years. What a fair and just premise!
And this is the belief that Jews have derived from the Torah. If you are Jewish you are allowed to go and take another’s land. The torah is not a real estate document. Israel is supposedly a democracy, the separation of church and state, so the Torah can’t be used in an Israeli court of law, any world court. Meaning that the israelis according to their own democratic laws, have no right to another’s land, JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWISH.
All races have contributed to the making of America, more than the Jews, I would say the African Americans have contributed above and beyond any race or religious group. The point is, that american jews are making a contribution to their country, the USA. We are not talking about American jews, we are debating Zionists and Israelis and they are not the SAME.
Well Israel is not refusing those peanuts, in fact they always seem to want more peanuts. And if their contribution is so large and the USA wouldn’t be nothing without them….why don’t they just cut the middle man and MAKE THEIR OWN DAMN PEANUTS.
Yeah, okay. That is just way too dumb to debate.
Disaffected and what creates this disaffection, what creates suicide bombers? There is no brainwashing; the myth of recruiting seems to be an answer that would leave Israel out of any responsibility for placing the Palestinians youth in a situation where there feel there is no end in their suffering. Checkpoints, etc. are not preventing anything. And what about Ehud who said:
"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.
Waging war, with what do they have to wage war with? Tanks, Apaches, m16s, American fighter jets? How can you make peace with those who have usurped your land and yet, you get called the terrorist. Who are the real terrorists? Bulldozing homes, razing trees, checkpoints, tanks in your backyard, idf at your door, arresting your children. Who are the terrorists? Lets ask Benny:
"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories” Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.
Well then they should have usurped someone else’s land, perhaps Buddhist’s make better neighbors. The Jews came to Palestine not the other way around. How do you get a doctorate or anything for that matter when you are harassed, arrested, prevented from going to school? You want measure an Israeli’s life against a Palestians? One is living under occupation and yet still survives, and yes there are Palestianians who do have doctorates and have other professions despite all that is up against them. Imagine if they had the basic equal rights as Zionists? Most number of suicide bombers? And that number is please? Suicide bombers, terrorists, have you ever been to the West Bank or Gaza, they are people, not walking bombs. They are mothers, fathers, grandparents, children, trying to live their lives, not end them. They want freedom and equal rights, just as the jews have their freedoms. You paint them to be monsters? Why? Because it is easier for Israelis to say they killed a monster rather than a mother or a teenager,etc.
The West Bank and Gaza are under occupation. The borders are not the same. Israel was built on the land of Palestine, it is the Zionists who have done the "Wiping out." The Right of Return, the End of the occupation are well within the basic human rights of the Palestinians and is recognized by the Geneva Convention and the UN.
So, without the US there would be no Israel, no Big shots.
As I have written before, they are partners in crime. As you wrote before, Israel needs the US to preserve it. They need each others help and they both have the morals of leeches, so they are perfect for each other. No false pretense with criminals.
feel the need to embarrass yourself?
DPrival78 should be proud. Criticizing zionists and Israel does not mean you hate jews!! Not all jews are zionists. Ever heard of Norman G. Finkelstein, son of Holocaust survivors? Well the things said on this thread don't even scratch the surface of what this man has authored on Zionists. I hate the idea that just because that someone criticizes zionists that automatically makes them a card carrying member of the KKK. If you really take a look at this thread you will find that those defending israel have more in common with racists than those that you have wrongfully labeled "jew haters."
i've said more than once in this thread that i am not anti-jew, and that was not the point of bringing this topic up.
thanks for contributing something intelligent to the discussion though...
have a nice day
Well your criticism of DPRIVAL78 just needs a little bit more backing up than calling it lies, he provided articles, quotes and is trying to create a discussion. You on the other hand came in with the label of "jew haters" and labels are dangerous and counterproductive.
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4831.shtml