Why did the whiteness thread get shut?

rebornFixer

gue_barium wrote:

hehee. Really, it's out of hand. Narcissitic. Between this one and Che's rants, it's just ridiculous...



{Repeat 'til end}

???

The Cars do rock, though.

gue_barium

reborncareerist wrote:

???

The Cars do rock, though.

I prefer Emerson myself.

A friend is one before whom I may think aloud.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, but he is braver five minutes longer.


A man of genius is privileged only as far as he is genius. His dullness is as
All I have seen teaches me to trust the Creator for all I have not seen.

All our progress is an unfolding, like a vegetable bud. You have first an instinct, then an opinion, then a knowledge as the plant has root, bud, and fruit. Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason.

As we grow old…the beauty steals inward.

Be not the slave of your own past. Plunge into the sublime seas, dive deep and swim far, so you shall com back with self-respect, with new power, with an advanced experience that shall explain and overlook the old.

Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Character is higher than intellect... A great soul will be strong to live, as well as to think.

Children are all foreigners.

Colleges hate geniuses, just as convents hate saints.

Conversation is an art in which a man has all mankind for his competitors, for it is that which all are practising every day while they live.

Democracy becomes a government of bullies tempered by editors.

Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

Don't be too timid and squeamish about your actions. All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.

Don't waste yourself in rejection, nor bark against the bad, but chant the beauty of the good.

Every great and commanding moment in the annals of the world is the triumph of some enthusiasm.

Every hero becomes a bore at last.
- More quotations on:
Every sweet has its sour; every evil its good.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
- More quotations on: [Evil]
Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Give all to love; obey thy heart.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
God enters by a private door into every individual.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
He has not learned the lesson of life who does not every day surmount a fear.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
I awoke this morning with devout thanksgiving for my friends, the old and the new.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
I pack my trunk, embrace my friends, embark on the sea, and at last wake up in Naples, and there beside me is the Stern Fact, the Sad Self, unrelenting, identical, that I fled from.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
If I have lost confidence in myself, I have the universe against me.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

rebornFixer

gue_barium wrote:

hehee. Really, it's out of hand. Narcissitic. Between this one and Che's rants, it's just ridiculous...


ARTIST: The Cars
TITLE: Good Times Roll





Let the good times roll
Let them knock you around
Let the good times roll
Let them make you a clown


Let them leave you up in the air
Let them brush your rock and roll hair
Let the good times roll
Let the good times roll
Let the good times roll



Let the stories be told
Let them say what they want
Let the photos be old
Let them show what they want



If the illusion is real
Let them give you a ride
If they got thunder appeal
Let them be on your side


Let the good times roll
{Repeat 'til end}

OK, so he makes what might be some kind of attempt to call me narcissistic but then doesn't clarify.
Whatever ... I guess what bothered me about the original post was the opening statement to the effect of "people don't believe racism exists anymore". I think that comment does a huge disservice to many of the people in that now locked thread who were making no such argument. That comment is insulting to peoples' intelligence. Racism against non-whites clearly exists and most people will admit as much. What's concerning to me is the way in which some scholars completely ignore the possibility of things going too far in the other direction. Any attempt to point out instances of white people being treated less than fairly gets some kind of dismissive remark like "No one expects you to understand" or "You're just racist yourself" or what have you. Um, no. Why can't we acknowledge that race relations are more complex than black people doing no wrong and white people being the sole locus of the problem?
I'm sure your thesis is really good, ryan. Just didn't like your opening comment in this thread.

gue_barium

reborncareerist wrote:

OK, so he makes what might be some kind of attempt to call me narcissistic but then doesn't clarify.
Whatever ... I guess what bothered me about the original post was the opening statement to the effect of "people don't believe racism exists anymore". I think that comment does a huge disservice to many of the people in that now locked thread who were making no such argument. That comment is insulting to peoples' intelligence. Racism against non-whites clearly exists and most people will admit as much. What's concerning to me is the way in which some scholars completely ignore the possibility of things going too far in the other direction. Any attempt to point out instances of white people being treated less than fairly gets some kind of dismissive remark like "No one expects you to understand" or "You're just racist yourself" or what have you. Um, no. Why can't we acknowledge that race relations are more complex than black people doing no wrong and white people being the sole locus of the problem?
I'm sure your thesis is really good, ryan. Just didn't like your opening comment in this thread.

I think che dismissed himself almost immediately with the rhetoric of the '60's he brought. Rather silly.

gue_barium

reborncareerist wrote:

OK, so he makes what might be some kind of attempt to call me narcissistic but then doesn't clarify.
Whatever ... I guess what bothered me about the original post was the opening statement to the effect of "people don't believe racism exists anymore". I think that comment does a huge disservice to many of the people in that now locked thread who were making no such argument. That comment is insulting to peoples' intelligence. Racism against non-whites clearly exists and most people will admit as much. What's concerning to me is the way in which some scholars completely ignore the possibility of things going too far in the other direction. Any attempt to point out instances of white people being treated less than fairly gets some kind of dismissive remark like "No one expects you to understand" or "You're just racist yourself" or what have you. Um, no. Why can't we acknowledge that race relations are more complex than black people doing no wrong and white people being the sole locus of the problem?
I'm sure your thesis is really good, ryan. Just didn't like your opening comment in this thread.

I have a CD for you !

ryan198

reborncareerist wrote:

OK, so he makes what might be some kind of attempt to call me narcissistic but then doesn't clarify.
Whatever ... I guess what bothered me about the original post was the opening statement to the effect of "people don't believe racism exists anymore". I think that comment does a huge disservice to many of the people in that now locked thread who were making no such argument. That comment is insulting to peoples' intelligence. Racism against non-whites clearly exists and most people will admit as much. What's concerning to me is the way in which some scholars completely ignore the possibility of things going too far in the other direction. Any attempt to point out instances of white people being treated less than fairly gets some kind of dismissive remark like "No one expects you to understand" or "You're just racist yourself" or what have you. Um, no. Why can't we acknowledge that race relations are more complex than black people doing no wrong and white people being the sole locus of the problem?
I'm sure your thesis is really good, ryan. Just didn't like your opening comment in this thread.

reborn ... after a few responses I got on here I reworded my argument, but I had just read the last few posts before it got shut, and it was getting crazy. Most people who have referenced back showed me why, and that's why I didn't keep that arguement going. To be honest, I don't think that too many scholars on whiteness, and/or minorities want race relations to go "too far the other way". The point is that there is a lot of cultural racism that still exists, things like unfair hiring practices that continually allow for underqualified white people to keep getting hired - but it's very rarely acknowledged, whereas the few instances where AA goes to far is consistently questioned. I guess, after getting into my dissertation, it shed new light to me on what Affirmative Action has done, how it works, and who has generally benefitted. With this newer knowledge I have acquired I noticed that the (false) beliefs about how it has been implemented were being pushed on this board, and I just wanted to let peeps know how it worked. Further, I think the most interesting thing going on is that AA is huge in the millitary, which is a supposedly conservative bastion which implements liberal ideals (except in the fact that it's main purpose is to scientifically map out ways to kill large amounts of people - which may not be in and of itself conservative but is defended by conservatives). Finally what I have really learned is that whiteness is just as complicated as blackness, latinness, or asianness, but is rarely discussed as such - perhaps even more so by people like me who are liberally inclined. A lot of people on here have argued, I believe rightly, that individual situations need to be dealt with on an individual basis, but where my argument differs is that I still assert that we have to acknowledge that whiteness is still a general privilege that we need to understand. I hope that clarifies my position on the whole topic. Either way I have really enjoyed talking through this on the board, because it has really helped me think through this complicated topic, and that it is an important thing to be thinking about/discussing.

gue_barium

I wonder what Big Bird thinks about all of this.

cornnifer

chopitdown wrote:

history doesn't lessen the fact that malcolm X, before his trip to mecca, was racist. .

In all do respect, this is not entirely accurate.
Malcolm once said something along the lines of "If you come to put a rope around my neck, and i hang you for it, that's not racism".
Pretty profound and insightful, IMO.

chopitdown

cornnifer wrote:

In all do respect, this is not entirely accurate.
Malcolm once said something along the lines of "If you come to put a rope around my neck, and i hang you for it, that's not racism".
Pretty profound and insightful, IMO.

touche.

I remember reading his autobiography and getting terribly upset at his view and his painting of whites with such a broad brush (mostly b/c of the misguided direction of the nation of islam); and I really enjoyed "watching" his transformation on that trip to mecca and seeing him develop. So perhaps, I didn't paint him with too broad a brush before hand.

rebornFixer

chopitdown wrote:

touche.

I remember reading his autobiography and getting terribly upset at his view and his painting of whites with such a broad brush (mostly b/c of the misguided direction of the nation of islam); and I really enjoyed "watching" his transformation on that trip to mecca and seeing him develop. So perhaps, I didn't paint him with too broad a brush before hand.

His switch away from the Nation of Islam is one of the most noble things that man ever did. One of the reasons I admire him so much ... He looked extremism right in the face and ultimately rejected it, yet still continued the good fight via the right means.

rebornFixer

ryan198 wrote:

reborn ... after a few responses I got on here I reworded my argument, but I had just read the last few posts before it got shut, and it was getting crazy. Most people who have referenced back showed me why, and that's why I didn't keep that arguement going. To be honest, I don't think that too many scholars on whiteness, and/or minorities want race relations to go "too far the other way". The point is that there is a lot of cultural racism that still exists, things like unfair hiring practices that continually allow for underqualified white people to keep getting hired - but it's very rarely acknowledged, whereas the few instances where AA goes to far is consistently questioned. I guess, after getting into my dissertation, it shed new light to me on what Affirmative Action has done, how it works, and who has generally benefitted. With this newer knowledge I have acquired I noticed that the (false) beliefs about how it has been implemented were being pushed on this board, and I just wanted to let peeps know how it worked. Further, I think the most interesting thing going on is that AA is huge in the millitary, which is a supposedly conservative bastion which implements liberal ideals (except in the fact that it's main purpose is to scientifically map out ways to kill large amounts of people - which may not be in and of itself conservative but is defended by conservatives). Finally what I have really learned is that whiteness is just as complicated as blackness, latinness, or asianness, but is rarely discussed as such - perhaps even more so by people like me who are liberally inclined. A lot of people on here have argued, I believe rightly, that individual situations need to be dealt with on an individual basis, but where my argument differs is that I still assert that we have to acknowledge that whiteness is still a general privilege that we need to understand. I hope that clarifies my position on the whole topic. Either way I have really enjoyed talking through this on the board, because it has really helped me think through this complicated topic, and that it is an important thing to be thinking about/discussing.

You raise some very good points about "whiteness". Honestly? I think part of the problem with the whole race relations situation is the LACK of a white cultural identity. I do not mean a pathological sense of white identify, vis a vis the KKK or other nutty groups. I mean a basic sense of ethnic identity. All white people in North America come from a mother culture but this sense of cultural identity is usually lost (except in the odd traditional family where the "old ways" are still honored). "Mainstream culture" is used to describe "white culture", but what is this concept, really? It just sets up a dichotomy between "us" and "them". I think this lack of cultural awareness in many white people can actually set the stage for a negative view of other racial groups.

soulsinging

Jeanie wrote:

Sorry ss, Australianism. Let me be your interpreter.

to'ey n & a (Australian slang)

1. n. a toff
2. a. (of horse, runner) speedy; (of horse) eager to race; (of person) nervously impatient, touchy.

It is also used to refer to being overly horny.

I think that's what lucy meant.

in that case my answer would have to be yes, always. my gf just left after a weekend here... and STILL yes!

catefrances

lucylespian wrote:

Yeah, which is exactly why I used it. I use Americanisms a lot to fit in here, but felt like asserting my "Ozness" there !!

I figured it was a chance for the kiddies to learn something.

ozness?????

please explain.


*he winks at his mates behind the tourist's back as, with an arm draped around his shoulder, he explains the concept of dropbears to this unsuspecting soul.*

lucylespian

catefrances wrote:

ozness?????

please explain.


*he winks at his mates behind the tourist's back as, with an arm draped around his shoulder, he explains the concept of dropbears to this unsuspecting soul.*

Just felt inclined to use my choice of language and syntax, which turned out to be "uniquely Australian" ( actually , that deliberate wank is probably not even close to true, I pretty sure the Poms and Scots would have got "toey")and not modify it to ensure universal comprehension.

catefrances

lucylespian wrote:

Just felt inclined to use my choice of language and syntax, which turned out to be "uniquely Australian" ( actually , that deliberate wank is probably not even close to true, I pretty sure the Poms and Scots would have got "toey")and not modify it to ensure universal comprehension.

i find myself explaining myself to americans at times with my turn of phrase. to me i always make sense, but apparently that is not true. go figure.

lucylespian

catefrances wrote:

i find myself explaining myself to americans at times with my turn of phrase. to me i always make sense, but apparently that is not true. go figure.

Yeah, I usually take the shortcut of conforming to American style, sometimes I feel like being a rebel.

A rebel without a cause, that's me !! LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

catefrances

lucylespian wrote:

Yeah, I usually take the shortcut of conforming to American style, sometimes I feel like being a rebel.

A rebel without a cause, that's me !! LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

not me mate. i'll explain, but i won't change.

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

ozness?????

please explain.


*he winks at his mates behind the tourist's back as, with an arm draped around his shoulder, he explains the concept of dropbears to this unsuspecting soul.*

DROPBEARS!!!!

Did someone say DROPBEARS?????!!!!!!

Oh I do so love Dropbears!

Those Bears know how to have a good time!!

catefrances

Jeanie wrote:

DROPBEARS!!!!

Did someone say DROPBEARS?????!!!!!!

Oh I do so love Dropbears!

Those Bears know how to have a good time!!

if only they were awake for it.

lucylespian

catefrances wrote:

not me mate. i'll explain, but i won't change.

Funny, I'd rather change knowing what I am doing, than explain myself to people. I never did like having to justify myself.

Did you know that drop-bears get a run in a Terry Pratchet book about some joint called Fourecks ??