North Korea and War
chopitdown
Posts: 2,222
Good grief, this guy is a nut job...is he just looking for a fight or is it just about respect?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/11/korea.nuclear.test/index.html
SEOUL, South Korea (CNN) -- North Korea will consider any increased pressure from the United States as "a declaration of a war," a North Korean Foreign Ministry spokesman said Wednesday, according to South Korea's official news agency.
The United States is leading the charge for limited U.N. sanctions against the reclusive communist country after it said it carried out a nuclear test Monday. The U.N. Security Council is considering the draft resolution.
North Korea's second in command, Kim Yong Nam, told Japan's Kyodo News Agency that sanctions would prevent Pyongyang from rejoining multilateral negotiations on its nuclear weapons program, which stalled last year.
"We cannot attend the six-party talks while financial sanctions and various sanctions are imposed on us," said Kim, according to a translation from The Associated Press.
The Bush administration has insisted any negotiations between the United States and North Korea occur within the framework of six-party talks that also involve China, Russia, South Korea and Japan.
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said President Bush has told the North Koreans that "there is no intention to invade or attack them. So they have that guarantee. ... I don't know what more they want." (Watch Rice lay out U.S. position on North Korean threats -- 1:28)
Kim earlier had threatened more nuclear tests if the United States continued its "hostile attitude" against Pyongyang, a news report said Wednesday.
South Korea's defense minister, Yoon Kwang-ung, later announced that Seoul will enlarge its conventional arsenal to deal with its potentially nuclear-armed neighbor.
South Korea's military joint chiefs of staff have told the defense minister that troops should check their readiness for nuclear war, according to that country's Yonhap news service, the AP reported...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/11/korea.nuclear.test/index.html
SEOUL, South Korea (CNN) -- North Korea will consider any increased pressure from the United States as "a declaration of a war," a North Korean Foreign Ministry spokesman said Wednesday, according to South Korea's official news agency.
The United States is leading the charge for limited U.N. sanctions against the reclusive communist country after it said it carried out a nuclear test Monday. The U.N. Security Council is considering the draft resolution.
North Korea's second in command, Kim Yong Nam, told Japan's Kyodo News Agency that sanctions would prevent Pyongyang from rejoining multilateral negotiations on its nuclear weapons program, which stalled last year.
"We cannot attend the six-party talks while financial sanctions and various sanctions are imposed on us," said Kim, according to a translation from The Associated Press.
The Bush administration has insisted any negotiations between the United States and North Korea occur within the framework of six-party talks that also involve China, Russia, South Korea and Japan.
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said President Bush has told the North Koreans that "there is no intention to invade or attack them. So they have that guarantee. ... I don't know what more they want." (Watch Rice lay out U.S. position on North Korean threats -- 1:28)
Kim earlier had threatened more nuclear tests if the United States continued its "hostile attitude" against Pyongyang, a news report said Wednesday.
South Korea's defense minister, Yoon Kwang-ung, later announced that Seoul will enlarge its conventional arsenal to deal with its potentially nuclear-armed neighbor.
South Korea's military joint chiefs of staff have told the defense minister that troops should check their readiness for nuclear war, according to that country's Yonhap news service, the AP reported...
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Comments
I'm sure most of it is posturing, but we've also said that we won't invade. Now the ball is in his court. If he considers any other embargo, sanctions etc... an act of war it seems like he's looking for some way to make himself look better.
dude ... your president labelled them part of this axis of evil ... your country has invaded and our occupying two other countries part of this axis ... your country is laying down the PR work for a war with Iran ... what more evidence would you consider before you start worrying?
again ... something no one wants to answer is why can pakistan and israel have nuclear weapons and north korea not? ...
How are we threatening them? Unless I've missed something, the US hasent provoked them at all, especially by nukes. Its been assured many times that an attack by US will not happen if unprovoked. So please enlighten me as to whene NK has been "threatened by a nuclear power."
On anohter note. do the ppl here honestly beleive its OK for NK to have nukes? Or is it only out of spite for all things America that ppl say "they're defending themselves."
I've said it before, but the whole "US has them, so why not NK" does not hold A SINGLE shred of logic.
Again, I didn't say he shouldn't WORRY, but the fact that he'd consider any sanction an ACT OF WAR is lunacy.
I don't want pakistan or israel to have one. I don't want N Korea to have one b/c of the leader who is a whack job and considers economic sanctions an act of war. And he's not exactly someone the international community can work with. At least Pakistan and Israel are somewhat receptive to the international community.
because the kim jong il is a fucking nut job. he is the worst dictator the world has ever seen.
here is a lil look into the way he treats his people.
Human rights
Main article: Human rights in North Korea
Amnesty International and other human rights organizations accuse North Korea of having one of the worst human rights records of any nation, severely restricting most freedoms, including freedom of speech and freedom of movement, both inside the country and abroad.
North Korean exiles have testified as to the existence of detention camps with an estimated 150,000 to 200,000 inmates, and have reported torture, starvation, rape, murder and forced labour. [18] [19] Japanese television aired what it said was footage of a prison camp [20]. In some of the camps, US officials and former inmates say the annual mortality rate approaches 20% to 25% [21]. An estimated two million civilians have been killed by the government[7] A former prison guard and army intelligence officer said that in one camp, chemical weapons were tested on prisoners in a gas chamber [22]. According to a former prisoner, pregnant women inside the camps are often forced to have abortions or the newborn child is killed [23]. A recent TIME magazine article documents a young woman's forced abortion in a prison camp and subsequent escape from North Korea. The government of North Korea refuses to admit independent human rights observers to the state.
The government of North Korea has also been implicated in terrorist attacks in South Korea [24] (Wahn Kihl 1983: 106) as well as assassinations of dissidents in nearby states [25]
So by your logic, its OK for someone to have nukes, especially when that person threatens to use Nukes everytime he gets his panties in a wad.
economic sanctions would be an act of war to anyone who saw what those sanctions did to the iraqi populace after gulf war 1 ...
pakistan is widely known to harbour terrorists and have an open border between afghanistan and them ... israel has more UN resolutions put forth against them then n. korea ...
why is it illogical for n. korea to want nukes cuz the US wants them ... its called an arms race for a reason and if you want to see who started it ... don't look too far ...
I think he is just as concerned about his own military turning against him as he is with the US. This is an oppresive government that does little to nothing to help the people of his country. I think he feels by obtaining nukes and being able to somewhat challenge the US he is held in a higher standard with his people. This is a guy who tells his people he was born on the top of a mystical mountain so as to appear somewhat God like. Sure the US and Bush have made mistakes, there is no arguing that, but if you think that Kim Jong Il is doing this simply because he is scared of the US then I personally believe you are wrong. The guy has a million man army brainwashed and loyal to him at all costs, but all it takes is the people waking up and realizing how terrible a leader he is and that would be the end of him. He has to keep himself built up as a strong leader, because he knews he couldnt withstand any type of coup.
if i showed up in your neighbourhood and started occupying your neighbours homes with the use of a gun ... what would you do about it? ... considering also that i already said that i don't like you ...
again ... if you create a world where might is right and that might is determined by your nuclear aresenal - these are the consequences ... if you don't want any country to have nukes - well, guess what: maybe you shouldn't have any either ...
he really does appear to be simply nuts.
but hey, i'd be trying to get a nuke at this point too.
that's right and I'm just afraid that if this whack job in N korea gets too big for his britches and decides to "show his toughness" he'll start a nuclear war...which no one wants...not even halliburton
great point...
let's say a big, tough fella called you (#1), and two other people out (#2 and #3)...and that big, tough fella beats the crap out of one (#2) of the other two people for looking at is old lady (and we later found out the guy who got crap kicked out of him wasn't even near the big, tough guy's old lady)...
and the that big, tough guy starts talking shit to the other guy,(#3) and rumours of a fight are here and there...
I wonder, what would you do if you were guy #1...
That is a good point, but this situation isnt as black and white as you guys are trying to make it.
the actual real scary thing about n. korea is that kim jong il is not a wack job but that there are military types within the power structure that truly are ... i believe in a multitude of reasons why he would seek nuclear weapons but first and foremost will always be to say to his people and the world ... screw with us and we have the ability to do damage ...
you can't create that sense of purpose with the public without the perceived threat and the US is doing everything right to provide that threat ...
So is this going to turn into ANOTHER conversation about why US has nukes and continues to have them?
Again, i see no logic in your way of thinking atm. How did we "show up" in NK's neighborhood? US has been on the border for well over 50 years, and that fuckwad(s) up North has tried to start shit over and over again. They've comminted numerous "acts of war" where the US has has held back. Look up the USS Pueblo, for a quick example that comes to mind.
well ... your current administration backed out a nuclear non-proliferation treaty and are in the process of developing mini-nukes ... what do you expect the rest of the world to do?
you labelled them as part of an axis of evil ... look at the other countries on that list ... it may be illogical to you but not to me ...
again - what would you do?
THe axis of evil speech was stupid, I will certainly agree with you on that, as it did give Kim Jong Il the ability to say the US was a threat to them. But was he not seeking nukes during the Clinton administration? This isnt simply because of Bush. Anyone who has to tell his people he was born on the top of a mystical mountain, just so he can appear god like or like a mythical being, is a a little insecure in himself. And when you are insecure, and you run the type of government he runs, then he most certainly is concerned with a coup from his own military. By shaking his fist in the face of the US he probably feels he gets, and he probably does get more respect from his people, and is looked at as being a stronger leader than he really is.
In my opinion, Bush has failed miserably with regards to the Axis of Evil. Iraq is a mess, NK has nuclear weapons and Iran soon will.
How has any of our current foreign policy decisions made the world a safer place?
Are you referring to Kim Jong-il or Bush here?
i know the US has them and I know they are the only country to use them. I also think we won't use them again unless provoked by an equivocal force. Think about it, if we were so war hungy and interesetd in showing our nuke capabilities we could have gone to iraq, afghanistan and dropped some bombs and started this whole thing over. I agree with your earlier statement about him trying to show his people that he has strength and needs to be respected...but I hope he doesn't get too whiny and too aggressive trying to show his might.
from the accounts i've heard (ex s. korean pm, previous chinese diplomats) - kim jong il is a very smart person who is quick to make decisions ... i won't disagree with your assessment of him but at the end of the day - north korea had inspectors and were part of a non-proliferation agreement with china, japan and s. korea ... but pulled out after bush's rhetoric and actions ...
that's right, i forgot there were people on here who think that Bush is the only dipshit in the world. I was referring to Kim Jong-il.
but do you think the US would have gone into either country if they had nukes? ... why is pakistan a "friend" of the US? ...
obviously no one wants them to be used but maybe the US could stop dropping DU laced munitions - that would also be a start ...
well ... just as long as you look at the rest of amnesty int'l write ups on other countries and hold it to the same esteem ... it's easy to paste this ... but what about other countries?
don't know if they would have or not...i agree that nukes are great deterrants but in the hands of some they don't wish to use them as deterrants rather they want to further a cause. And I'm not sure where I put N Korea.
they are joining the arms race of course ... guess who's gonna be happy about that?
everyone has a cause ... not too many are virtuous or moral in nature ...