Freedom of Speech and Censorship

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  • Scubascott
    Scubascott Posts: 815
    Jeanie wrote:
    I'm hoping that people won't get fooled again.

    Now I've got The Who playing in my head. . .


    Meet the new boss
    Same as the old boss. . .

    We won't get fooled again!
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison
  • Scubascott
    Scubascott Posts: 815
    Ok, I had to go and find it. Fuck me these are some good lyrics. This could be the anthem for the revolution! Its hard to believe they were written 30 years ago. I'd love to have Pete and Roger standing beside me playing this as I kicked Johnny in the nuts!


    We'll be fighting in the streets
    With our children at our feet
    And the morals that they worship will be gone
    And the men who spurred us on
    Sit in judgement of all wrong
    They decide and the shotgun sings the song

    I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
    Take a bow for the new revolution
    Smile and grin at the change all around
    Pick up my guitar and play
    Just like yesterday
    Then I'll get on my knees and pray
    We don't get fooled again

    The change, it had to come
    We knew it all along
    We were liberated from the foe, that' all
    And the world looks just the same
    And history ain't changed
    'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war

    I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
    Take a bow for the new revolution
    Smile and grin at the change all around
    Pick up my guitar and play
    Just like yesterday
    Then I'll get on my knees and pray
    We don't get fooled again
    No, no!

    I'll move myself and my family aside
    If we happen to be left half alive
    I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
    For I know that the hypnotized never lie

    Do ya?

    Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

    There's nothing in the street
    Looks any different to me
    And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
    And the parting on the left
    Is now the parting on the right
    And the beards have all grown longer overnight

    I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
    Take a bow for the new revolution
    Smile and grin at the change all around
    Pick up my guitar and play
    Just like yesterday
    Then I'll get on my knees and pray
    We don't get fooled again
    Don't get fooled again
    No, no!

    Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

    Meet the new boss
    Same as the old boss
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Very nice scott! :D

    Isn't that the beauty of Freedom of Speech? You can just break into song whenever you feel like! :D

    There's only one problem with your plan. Johnny doesn't have any balls! :D
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Jeanie wrote:
    Thanks Jeanwah. :) Look to be honest, I think that all things happen in cycles. We are currently in a conservative, highly controlled cycle as a direct backlash to 9/11. Eventually though, people rebel. And I do think that will happen. It's already happening if you look. People are protesting the war in Iraq and they've been more vocal about it than at any other time in recent years. I think change is coming again. People are realizing that they can't just sit back and trust the government to do the right thing. It will take time of course but I do believe that we will begin to see more truth and more justice and this cycle of conservatism will come to an end. :)
    Cheers to the ideal future, Jeanie! :)
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Cheers to the ideal future, Jeanie! :)

    Cheers me dear! :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Jeanie wrote:
    Oh I don't think it's just the US Jean. Hi btw. :)
    We are having quite the censorship erosion here in Oz too. I suspect it's happening all over the world. Do you think it's because of the conservative political landscape?

    i would say it's because of the liberal political landscape....but that's from the right wing whack job point of view.

    pc IS censorship. conditioning to make you feel guilty about expressing your point of view is censorship....

    conservatives encourage debate because we know we can win on the issues.

    libs label you as a hate monger, sexist, racist, biggot, etc, instead of talking about substance. seriously, you can make a drinking game out of it...get into a debate with a liberal and set the clock...over / under is 30 secs before they label you as a biggot.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    i would say it's because of the liberal political landscape....but that's from the right wing whack job point of view.

    pc IS censorship. conditioning to make you feel guilty about expressing your point of view is censorship....

    conservatives encourage debate because we know we can win on the issues.

    libs label you as a hate monger, sexist, racist, biggot, etc, instead of talking about substance. seriously, you can make a drinking game out of it...get into a debate with a liberal and set the clock...over / under is 30 secs before they label you as a biggot.

    Mornin Hawk! :)

    Getting a bit us and them aren't you? ;)

    I'd probably be considered a liberal, (which is classic because I'm definitely not what would be defined as a Liberal in this country! :D) I'm certainly no conservative and I do not support censorship in any form. You could argue/ debate with me in a drinking game and I probably would start name calling at some point, but one would hope that you would recognize that I'm pissed, understand that I do not overall hold that view of you and dismiss what I'm saying as not me labelling you but for what it is, the drunken ranting of a friend. At some point you have to decide about the sticks and stones.
    And you have to recognize that if someone is calling you a name, do you value their opinion or are you just getting a wee bit miffed coz they may just have struck a nerve? :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    oh you people (my good friends here at synergy, a friendly term :)) strike many nerves. :) i label myself a conservative because i have firmly held conservative beliefs...i don't mind being labeled a conservative, i welcome it...i don't like being labeled a biggot..et al...though, because i'm not. that's my point...it's become way too convenient in our world to associate the two...and that's just intellectual lazyness. an easy way of shutting down debate, and making people feel uncomfortable about expressing their actual beliefs.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    oh you people (my good friends here at synergy, a friendly term :)) strike many nerves. :) i label myself a conservative because i have firmly held conservative beliefs...i don't mind being labeled a conservative, i welcome it...i don't like being labeled a biggot..et al...though, because i'm not. that's my point...it's become way too convenient in our world to associate the two...and that's just intellectual lazyness. an easy way of shutting down debate, and making people feel uncomfortable about expressing their actual beliefs.


    First off, I haven't seen or heard anyone called a biggot or whatever just because they're a conservative, ever. Second, if someone says something that deserves the term biggot as a response, why do you want to shut down anyone's ability to express that thought? Do you think biggot's points should just be accepted with no rebuttal?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    First off, I haven't seen or heard anyone called a biggot or whatever just because they're a conservative, ever. Second, if someone says something that deserves the term biggot as a response, why do you want to shut down anyone's ability to express that thought? Do you think biggot's points should just be accepted with no rebuttal?

    just my personal experience...you are strong on immigration...you must hate mexicans...you are strong on national security, you want to watch everyone's phone conversations and want to kill all arabs...death to palestine.

    you see it all the time here on this site. i think the fact that rush and beck, who express opinions that i do, are ridiculed as hate mongers is embarrassing. it's not addressing their points. it's easy to dismiss them. whatever, i think we're all being fucked by a "media class" that is telling us to be polarized when we really aren't. it's not about left and right...it's about right and wrong...and elite vs us.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    just my personal experience...you are strong on immigration...you must hate mexicans...you are strong on national security, you want to watch everyone's phone conversations and want to kill all arabs...death to palestine.

    you see it all the time here on this site. i think the fact that rush and beck, who express opinions that i do, are ridiculed as hate mongers is embarrassing. it's not addressing their points. it's easy to dismiss them. whatever, i think we're all being fucked by a "media class" that is telling us to be polarized when we really aren't. it's not about left and right...it's about right and wrong...and elite vs us.

    Hi purple hawk. It's not the opinions that I as a liberal have a problem with, but the way folks like Rush present them. I'm not familiar with Beck, so I can't comment. Rush has said some pretty hateful things. I understand he does this as an entertainment tool, but you have to understand why someone such as myself would not find Rush reasonable. This is not to say that there aren't those on the left like Rush. I don't respect them either. And you're right, it is polarizing.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    just my personal experience...you are strong on immigration...you must hate mexicans...you are strong on national security, you want to watch everyone's phone conversations and want to kill all arabs...death to palestine.

    you see it all the time here on this site. i think the fact that rush and beck, who express opinions that i do, are ridiculed as hate mongers is embarrassing. it's not addressing their points. it's easy to dismiss them. whatever, i think we're all being fucked by a "media class" that is telling us to be polarized when we really aren't. it's not about left and right...it's about right and wrong...and elite vs us.


    No one can make you feel guilty but yourself. That's a silly arguement that just because your strong on immigration that you hate Mexicans. But...if you fill your points up with hateful, derogatory statements about them...don't be surprised when you get called on it. That's the case with your dears, Rush and Glen....they always use such hateful, nasty ways of making their points. There are plenty of people I disagree with here like, zstillings, chopitdown, ffg who make points without coming across so nasty and negative.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    No one can make you feel guilty but yourself. That's a silly arguement that just because your strong on immigration that you hate Mexicans. But...if you fill your points up with hateful, derogatory statements about them...don't be surprised when you get called on it. That's the case with your dears, Rush and Glen....they always use such hateful, nasty ways of making their points. There are plenty of people I disagree with here like, zstillings, chopitdown, ffg who make points without coming across so nasty and negative.


    sorry a book :) you're a great American, but you haven't listened to Rush or Beck if you actually believe that. I would not listen to these people if theyy actually did spew hatred. they would not have such a high following if they did either. and hell...these idiots i work with listen to pbs...but they are always days behind neo-con radio :) that's where our polarization stems from, we choose our own sources of information, and we assume the worst about each other.

    as far as posters go, remember it's easier to come across as less hatefull when you are the majority.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    oh you people (my good friends here at synergy, a friendly term :)) strike many nerves. :) i label myself a conservative because i have firmly held conservative beliefs...i don't mind being labeled a conservative, i welcome it...i don't like being labeled a biggot..et al...though, because i'm not. that's my point...it's become way too convenient in our world to associate the two...and that's just intellectual lazyness. an easy way of shutting down debate, and making people feel uncomfortable about expressing their actual beliefs.

    Ok love, well I'm struggling with what appears to be your need to "pigeon hole" people or make generalizations about them. But I could be reading that wrong. :) I'm pretty sure that you are so much more as an individual than a conservative with firmly held beliefs. Just the same as everyone is so much more than their political ideology.
    A Liberal here is probably what you would consider a Conservative. I don't support the Liberals here but then I'm not a huge fan of picking a team and sticking with it blindly anyway. Each issue on it's merits as far as I'm concerned. If someone from any political leaning comes up with a reasonable solution to a problem or they are willing to negotiate to solve a problem, then I'm perfectly happy with that.
    I don't associate being a conservative with being a bigot. I usually accept that everyone is capable of bigotry at some point in their lives, it is human nature. Anyway, you express away. It's always good for people to share their views. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Jeanie wrote:
    Ok love, well I'm struggling with what appears to be your need to "pigeon hole" people or make generalizations about them. But I could be reading that wrong. :) I'm pretty sure that you are so much more as an individual than a conservative with firmly held beliefs.

    way i see it, conservatism allows you to be an individual :)
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    sorry a book :) you're a great American, but you haven't listened to Rush or Beck if you actually believe that. I would not listen to these people if theyy actually did spew hatred. they would not have such a high following if they did either. and hell...these idiots i work with listen to pbs...but they are always days behind neo-con radio :) that's where our polarization stems from, we choose our own sources of information, and we assume the worst about each other.

    as far as posters go, remember it's easier to come across as less hatefull when you are the majority.

    I have listened to both of them and thought they were extremely hateful and condescending. All they ever talk about is how liberals are ruining the country and how people are idiots if they think this or that. It's a huge turn off. I agree the media creates polarization but I think people like Rush and Beck are two of the biggest ones out there encouraging this.

    The posters I mentioned aren't liberals so I would say they are not in the majority here.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Hi guys. :)

    You do realize of course that I have no idea, nor do I particularly care, who Rush and Beck are? :)

    I started this thread not because I wanted to see people argue back and forth about political parties ad infinitum because there's more than enough forums for that around here. No I started this thread because I wanted to hear about what average jammers thought they could do to win back the freedoms we appear to be losing. And I wanted to hear everyone, average people's voices. About themselves or about where they felt they were being censored or or where that they felt their freedom of speech had been eroded. AND what they thought we could do about it. :)

    That's how I'd like this thread to continue please.
    Rush and Beck and George and all the other politicians ALL AROUND THE WORLD people ALL AROUND THE WORLD ;) are already getting too much air time! Its time to hear from the rest of us now. So not to censor you or stop you from your debate. BUT SERIOUSLY, where have your personal freedoms been stripped? Where have you been censored? What do you think we can do about it? :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I have listened to both of them and thought they were extremely hateful and condescending. All they ever talk about is how liberals are ruining the country and how people are idiots if they think this or that. It's a huge turn off. I agree the media creates polarization but I think people like Rush and Beck are two of the biggest ones out there encouraging this..

    from my point of view, all my life i grew up watching comedians, and mainstream culture mocking my views...to me, i don't view the "new" media as polarizing, i see them as standing up and saying...damn straight yo :)
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Jeanie wrote:
    Hi guys. :)
    You do realize of course that I have no idea, nor do I particularly care, who Rush and Beck are? :)
    :)

    Jeanie, pm me and i'll give you my rush access...partisanship aside...give it two weeks, and you'll be hooked :)
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    way i see it, conservatism allows you to be an individual

    Ok! :D I've got no clue, because I don't really know what you think that entails. :)
    I just know that I'm me Hawk and I'll accept or reject information as I choose depending on my situation at the time. To be honest, I'm probably a fence sitter. :) Stone the crows!! ;)

    But I do think you are an individual regardless of how you view yourself.

    Oh!! And I'm not a fan of Immigration as it exists in it's current format, but I don't hate anyone. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift

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