It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Ok, I had to go and find it. Fuck me these are some good lyrics. This could be the anthem for the revolution! Its hard to believe they were written 30 years ago. I'd love to have Pete and Roger standing beside me playing this as I kicked Johnny in the nuts!
We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the foe, that' all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!
I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Thanks Jeanwah. Look to be honest, I think that all things happen in cycles. We are currently in a conservative, highly controlled cycle as a direct backlash to 9/11. Eventually though, people rebel. And I do think that will happen. It's already happening if you look. People are protesting the war in Iraq and they've been more vocal about it than at any other time in recent years. I think change is coming again. People are realizing that they can't just sit back and trust the government to do the right thing. It will take time of course but I do believe that we will begin to see more truth and more justice and this cycle of conservatism will come to an end.
Oh I don't think it's just the US Jean. Hi btw.
We are having quite the censorship erosion here in Oz too. I suspect it's happening all over the world. Do you think it's because of the conservative political landscape?
i would say it's because of the liberal political landscape....but that's from the right wing whack job point of view.
pc IS censorship. conditioning to make you feel guilty about expressing your point of view is censorship....
conservatives encourage debate because we know we can win on the issues.
libs label you as a hate monger, sexist, racist, biggot, etc, instead of talking about substance. seriously, you can make a drinking game out of it...get into a debate with a liberal and set the clock...over / under is 30 secs before they label you as a biggot.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
i would say it's because of the liberal political landscape....but that's from the right wing whack job point of view.
pc IS censorship. conditioning to make you feel guilty about expressing your point of view is censorship....
conservatives encourage debate because we know we can win on the issues.
libs label you as a hate monger, sexist, racist, biggot, etc, instead of talking about substance. seriously, you can make a drinking game out of it...get into a debate with a liberal and set the clock...over / under is 30 secs before they label you as a biggot.
Mornin Hawk!
Getting a bit us and them aren't you?
I'd probably be considered a liberal, (which is classic because I'm definitely not what would be defined as a Liberal in this country! ) I'm certainly no conservative and I do not support censorship in any form. You could argue/ debate with me in a drinking game and I probably would start name calling at some point, but one would hope that you would recognize that I'm pissed, understand that I do not overall hold that view of you and dismiss what I'm saying as not me labelling you but for what it is, the drunken ranting of a friend. At some point you have to decide about the sticks and stones.
And you have to recognize that if someone is calling you a name, do you value their opinion or are you just getting a wee bit miffed coz they may just have struck a nerve?
oh you people (my good friends here at synergy, a friendly term ) strike many nerves. i label myself a conservative because i have firmly held conservative beliefs...i don't mind being labeled a conservative, i welcome it...i don't like being labeled a biggot..et al...though, because i'm not. that's my point...it's become way too convenient in our world to associate the two...and that's just intellectual lazyness. an easy way of shutting down debate, and making people feel uncomfortable about expressing their actual beliefs.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
oh you people (my good friends here at synergy, a friendly term ) strike many nerves. i label myself a conservative because i have firmly held conservative beliefs...i don't mind being labeled a conservative, i welcome it...i don't like being labeled a biggot..et al...though, because i'm not. that's my point...it's become way too convenient in our world to associate the two...and that's just intellectual lazyness. an easy way of shutting down debate, and making people feel uncomfortable about expressing their actual beliefs.
First off, I haven't seen or heard anyone called a biggot or whatever just because they're a conservative, ever. Second, if someone says something that deserves the term biggot as a response, why do you want to shut down anyone's ability to express that thought? Do you think biggot's points should just be accepted with no rebuttal?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
First off, I haven't seen or heard anyone called a biggot or whatever just because they're a conservative, ever. Second, if someone says something that deserves the term biggot as a response, why do you want to shut down anyone's ability to express that thought? Do you think biggot's points should just be accepted with no rebuttal?
just my personal experience...you are strong on immigration...you must hate mexicans...you are strong on national security, you want to watch everyone's phone conversations and want to kill all arabs...death to palestine.
you see it all the time here on this site. i think the fact that rush and beck, who express opinions that i do, are ridiculed as hate mongers is embarrassing. it's not addressing their points. it's easy to dismiss them. whatever, i think we're all being fucked by a "media class" that is telling us to be polarized when we really aren't. it's not about left and right...it's about right and wrong...and elite vs us.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
just my personal experience...you are strong on immigration...you must hate mexicans...you are strong on national security, you want to watch everyone's phone conversations and want to kill all arabs...death to palestine.
you see it all the time here on this site. i think the fact that rush and beck, who express opinions that i do, are ridiculed as hate mongers is embarrassing. it's not addressing their points. it's easy to dismiss them. whatever, i think we're all being fucked by a "media class" that is telling us to be polarized when we really aren't. it's not about left and right...it's about right and wrong...and elite vs us.
Hi purple hawk. It's not the opinions that I as a liberal have a problem with, but the way folks like Rush present them. I'm not familiar with Beck, so I can't comment. Rush has said some pretty hateful things. I understand he does this as an entertainment tool, but you have to understand why someone such as myself would not find Rush reasonable. This is not to say that there aren't those on the left like Rush. I don't respect them either. And you're right, it is polarizing.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
just my personal experience...you are strong on immigration...you must hate mexicans...you are strong on national security, you want to watch everyone's phone conversations and want to kill all arabs...death to palestine.
you see it all the time here on this site. i think the fact that rush and beck, who express opinions that i do, are ridiculed as hate mongers is embarrassing. it's not addressing their points. it's easy to dismiss them. whatever, i think we're all being fucked by a "media class" that is telling us to be polarized when we really aren't. it's not about left and right...it's about right and wrong...and elite vs us.
No one can make you feel guilty but yourself. That's a silly arguement that just because your strong on immigration that you hate Mexicans. But...if you fill your points up with hateful, derogatory statements about them...don't be surprised when you get called on it. That's the case with your dears, Rush and Glen....they always use such hateful, nasty ways of making their points. There are plenty of people I disagree with here like, zstillings, chopitdown, ffg who make points without coming across so nasty and negative.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
No one can make you feel guilty but yourself. That's a silly arguement that just because your strong on immigration that you hate Mexicans. But...if you fill your points up with hateful, derogatory statements about them...don't be surprised when you get called on it. That's the case with your dears, Rush and Glen....they always use such hateful, nasty ways of making their points. There are plenty of people I disagree with here like, zstillings, chopitdown, ffg who make points without coming across so nasty and negative.
sorry a book you're a great American, but you haven't listened to Rush or Beck if you actually believe that. I would not listen to these people if theyy actually did spew hatred. they would not have such a high following if they did either. and hell...these idiots i work with listen to pbs...but they are always days behind neo-con radio that's where our polarization stems from, we choose our own sources of information, and we assume the worst about each other.
as far as posters go, remember it's easier to come across as less hatefull when you are the majority.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
oh you people (my good friends here at synergy, a friendly term ) strike many nerves. i label myself a conservative because i have firmly held conservative beliefs...i don't mind being labeled a conservative, i welcome it...i don't like being labeled a biggot..et al...though, because i'm not. that's my point...it's become way too convenient in our world to associate the two...and that's just intellectual lazyness. an easy way of shutting down debate, and making people feel uncomfortable about expressing their actual beliefs.
Ok love, well I'm struggling with what appears to be your need to "pigeon hole" people or make generalizations about them. But I could be reading that wrong. I'm pretty sure that you are so much more as an individual than a conservative with firmly held beliefs. Just the same as everyone is so much more than their political ideology.
A Liberal here is probably what you would consider a Conservative. I don't support the Liberals here but then I'm not a huge fan of picking a team and sticking with it blindly anyway. Each issue on it's merits as far as I'm concerned. If someone from any political leaning comes up with a reasonable solution to a problem or they are willing to negotiate to solve a problem, then I'm perfectly happy with that.
I don't associate being a conservative with being a bigot. I usually accept that everyone is capable of bigotry at some point in their lives, it is human nature. Anyway, you express away. It's always good for people to share their views.
Ok love, well I'm struggling with what appears to be your need to "pigeon hole" people or make generalizations about them. But I could be reading that wrong. I'm pretty sure that you are so much more as an individual than a conservative with firmly held beliefs.
way i see it, conservatism allows you to be an individual
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
sorry a book you're a great American, but you haven't listened to Rush or Beck if you actually believe that. I would not listen to these people if theyy actually did spew hatred. they would not have such a high following if they did either. and hell...these idiots i work with listen to pbs...but they are always days behind neo-con radio that's where our polarization stems from, we choose our own sources of information, and we assume the worst about each other.
as far as posters go, remember it's easier to come across as less hatefull when you are the majority.
I have listened to both of them and thought they were extremely hateful and condescending. All they ever talk about is how liberals are ruining the country and how people are idiots if they think this or that. It's a huge turn off. I agree the media creates polarization but I think people like Rush and Beck are two of the biggest ones out there encouraging this.
The posters I mentioned aren't liberals so I would say they are not in the majority here.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
You do realize of course that I have no idea, nor do I particularly care, who Rush and Beck are?
I started this thread not because I wanted to see people argue back and forth about political parties ad infinitum because there's more than enough forums for that around here. No I started this thread because I wanted to hear about what average jammers thought they could do to win back the freedoms we appear to be losing. And I wanted to hear everyone, average people's voices. About themselves or about where they felt they were being censored or or where that they felt their freedom of speech had been eroded. AND what they thought we could do about it.
That's how I'd like this thread to continue please.
Rush and Beck and George and all the other politicians ALL AROUND THE WORLD people ALL AROUND THE WORLD are already getting too much air time! Its time to hear from the rest of us now. So not to censor you or stop you from your debate. BUT SERIOUSLY, where have your personal freedoms been stripped? Where have you been censored? What do you think we can do about it?
I have listened to both of them and thought they were extremely hateful and condescending. All they ever talk about is how liberals are ruining the country and how people are idiots if they think this or that. It's a huge turn off. I agree the media creates polarization but I think people like Rush and Beck are two of the biggest ones out there encouraging this..
from my point of view, all my life i grew up watching comedians, and mainstream culture mocking my views...to me, i don't view the "new" media as polarizing, i see them as standing up and saying...damn straight yo
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Hi guys.
You do realize of course that I have no idea, nor do I particularly care, who Rush and Beck are?
Jeanie, pm me and i'll give you my rush access...partisanship aside...give it two weeks, and you'll be hooked
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
way i see it, conservatism allows you to be an individual
Ok! I've got no clue, because I don't really know what you think that entails.
I just know that I'm me Hawk and I'll accept or reject information as I choose depending on my situation at the time. To be honest, I'm probably a fence sitter. Stone the crows!!
But I do think you are an individual regardless of how you view yourself.
Oh!! And I'm not a fan of Immigration as it exists in it's current format, but I don't hate anyone.
Jeanie, pm me and i'll give you my rush access...partisanship aside...give it two weeks, and you'll be hooked
Me? Hooked on a politician???? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Oh sorry sweetie, I'm not laughing at you but damn that's such a funny idea, me being 'hooked' on a politician!
Me? Hooked on a politician???? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Oh sorry sweetie, I'm not laughing at you but damn that's such a funny idea, me being 'hooked' on a politician!
he's not a politician...he's a talk show host...challenges people to think different...
see the "barack the magic negro" thread.
rush calls a liberal (who doesn't think barak obama is "black enough) as being a racist and rush is painted the racist...pretty much sums up the debate in America these days.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
he's not a politician...he's a talk show host...challenges people to think different...
see the "barack the magic negro" thread.
rush calls a liberal (who doesn't think barak obama is "black enough) as being a racist and rush is painted the racist...pretty much sums up the debate in America these days.
Oh!! Ok! Der Jeanie! :rolleyes: Got it!
You know, as an outsider looking in, you guys to seem to take this stuff VERY seriously. I mean someone says something, someone objects, someone objects to their objection, someone comes in and labels one of the objecters, someone else leaps to defend............at some point you guys all just take a deep breath, have a little laugh at yourselves and each other, and head off to the pub right? Because seems to me there's a chronic self absorption going on. Anyway, just an observation. I'll take a look at your talk show host. Is he as good as Jerry?
I have listened to both of them and thought they were extremely hateful and condescending. All they ever talk about is how liberals are ruining the country and how people are idiots if they think this or that. It's a huge turn off.
true he pokes fun at the left...but he is engaging in philosophical arguments....and has some interesting things to say, which is why people listen....when he derides liberalism, it's not personal, it's a rejection of that philosophy...one of my favorite monologues ever:
Now, conservatism, people who are conservative will look at a culture and look at a society, such as ours, and we will have the utmost faith in the individual. We believe that the individual, when properly educated and informed (and, by the way, unshackled), we believe the individual has the ability to triumph over whatever odds that individual faces. We believe that extraordinary people are simply ordinary people could go extraordinary things. The great among us never set out to be great. They became great by virtue of accolades as a result of their achievements. Liberals on the other hand look at the average American with condescension. They don't think the average American has what it takes. The average American is stupider than the liberal. The average American doesn't have the ambition or the wherewithal to overcome these odds -- and besides they make a victim out of everybody, and they do it by saying, "That black doesn't have a chance because of racism and white people. The illegal doesn't have a chance because of the nativist and protectionist among us. Women don't have a chance because of sexism and so forth," and so the liberal mind-set and construct of people is entirely negative. It's condescending; it is arrogant, and it is almost holds people in contempt.
Conservatism is just the opposite. Now, everything descends from that. When liberals get power, politically, and start putting together policy, what's the policy going to be? "Empower government, because those schlubs out there cannot live their lives properly, happily, without us. Senior citizens won't eat; the poor won't get off the soup lines. The only people that make it big are the rich, and we've gotta find a way to take away from them what they've worked for." Conservatism, when it gets power and starts defining policy, you get things like welfare reform, which is rooted in the belief that people who work, which is where many people derive their identity, will experience achievement and pride, will be motivated to go even further. You can take this simple definition of conservatism versus liberalism and apply it to virtually any aspect of the political spectrum, and you'll see that it applies. So it's not complicated at all to explain the difference. This is what has been missing in Republican Party politics, philosophically for way too many years, and needs to return....
Conservatism looks at average people and sees mountains of potential, wants only the best for everybody because that's how you get a great country. Liberalism looks at the average American with contempt, sees hopelessness, no chance whatsoever of that person becoming anything without the assistance of liberals and big government and so forth. Now, I want to illustrate this in another way, just to show you how conservatism and liberalism actually are and how the liberals end up in succeeding, in some cases, in misdefining conservatism
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
You know, as an outsider looking in, you guys to seem to take this stuff VERY seriously. I mean someone says something, someone objects, someone objects to their objection, someone comes in and labels one of the objecters, someone else leaps to defend............at some point you guys all just take a deep breath, have a little laugh at yourselves and each other, and head off to the pub right?
i think we do here...at least the regulars i talk to we have strong opinions, and maybe some of us are quick to be ultra-sensative (not me of course ), but i would rather strongly disagree with someone who deeply believes in what they are saying than agree with someone for the sake of agreement.
but i'm always eager to laugh at myself and whip up a bad ass martini...just don't ask for a chocolate or fruity one
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
true he pokes fun at the left...but he is engaging in philosophical arguments....and has some interesting things to say, which is why people listen....when he derides liberalism, it's not personal, it's a rejection of that philosophy...one of my favorite monologues ever:
Now, conservatism, people who are conservative will look at a culture and look at a society, such as ours, and we will have the utmost faith in the individual. We believe that the individual, when properly educated and informed (and, by the way, unshackled), we believe the individual has the ability to triumph over whatever odds that individual faces. We believe that extraordinary people are simply ordinary people could go extraordinary things. The great among us never set out to be great. They became great by virtue of accolades as a result of their achievements. Liberals on the other hand look at the average American with condescension. They don't think the average American has what it takes. The average American is stupider than the liberal. The average American doesn't have the ambition or the wherewithal to overcome these odds -- and besides they make a victim out of everybody, and they do it by saying, "That black doesn't have a chance because of racism and white people. The illegal doesn't have a chance because of the nativist and protectionist among us. Women don't have a chance because of sexism and so forth," and so the liberal mind-set and construct of people is entirely negative. It's condescending; it is arrogant, and it is almost holds people in contempt.
Conservatism is just the opposite. Now, everything descends from that. When liberals get power, politically, and start putting together policy, what's the policy going to be? "Empower government, because those schlubs out there cannot live their lives properly, happily, without us. Senior citizens won't eat; the poor won't get off the soup lines. The only people that make it big are the rich, and we've gotta find a way to take away from them what they've worked for." Conservatism, when it gets power and starts defining policy, you get things like welfare reform, which is rooted in the belief that people who work, which is where many people derive their identity, will experience achievement and pride, will be motivated to go even further. You can take this simple definition of conservatism versus liberalism and apply it to virtually any aspect of the political spectrum, and you'll see that it applies. So it's not complicated at all to explain the difference. This is what has been missing in Republican Party politics, philosophically for way too many years, and needs to return....
Conservatism looks at average people and sees mountains of potential, wants only the best for everybody because that's how you get a great country. Liberalism looks at the average American with contempt, sees hopelessness, no chance whatsoever of that person becoming anything without the assistance of liberals and big government and so forth. Now, I want to illustrate this in another way, just to show you how conservatism and liberalism actually are and how the liberals end up in succeeding, in some cases, in misdefining conservatism
I dont think you could paint with a broader stroke.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
I dont think you could paint with a broader stroke.
the truth doesn't hurt so much when you ignore it
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
true he pokes fun at the left...but he is engaging in philosophical arguments....and has some interesting things to say, which is why people listen....when he derides liberalism, it's not personal, it's a rejection of that philosophy...one of my favorite monologues ever:
Now, conservatism, people who are conservative will look at a culture and look at a society, such as ours, and we will have the utmost faith in the individual. We believe that the individual, when properly educated and informed (and, by the way, unshackled), we believe the individual has the ability to triumph over whatever odds that individual faces. We believe that extraordinary people are simply ordinary people could go extraordinary things. The great among us never set out to be great. They became great by virtue of accolades as a result of their achievements. Liberals on the other hand look at the average American with condescension. They don't think the average American has what it takes. The average American is stupider than the liberal. The average American doesn't have the ambition or the wherewithal to overcome these odds -- and besides they make a victim out of everybody, and they do it by saying, "That black doesn't have a chance because of racism and white people. The illegal doesn't have a chance because of the nativist and protectionist among us. Women don't have a chance because of sexism and so forth," and so the liberal mind-set and construct of people is entirely negative. It's condescending; it is arrogant, and it is almost holds people in contempt.
Conservatism is just the opposite. Now, everything descends from that. When liberals get power, politically, and start putting together policy, what's the policy going to be? "Empower government, because those schlubs out there cannot live their lives properly, happily, without us. Senior citizens won't eat; the poor won't get off the soup lines. The only people that make it big are the rich, and we've gotta find a way to take away from them what they've worked for." Conservatism, when it gets power and starts defining policy, you get things like welfare reform, which is rooted in the belief that people who work, which is where many people derive their identity, will experience achievement and pride, will be motivated to go even further. You can take this simple definition of conservatism versus liberalism and apply it to virtually any aspect of the political spectrum, and you'll see that it applies. So it's not complicated at all to explain the difference. This is what has been missing in Republican Party politics, philosophically for way too many years, and needs to return....
Conservatism looks at average people and sees mountains of potential, wants only the best for everybody because that's how you get a great country. Liberalism looks at the average American with contempt, sees hopelessness, no chance whatsoever of that person becoming anything without the assistance of liberals and big government and so forth. Now, I want to illustrate this in another way, just to show you how conservatism and liberalism actually are and how the liberals end up in succeeding, in some cases, in misdefining conservatism
He really shouldn't quit his day job and start trying to read minds. :rolleyes: That was one of the biggest crocks of shit I've ever wasted my time reading on here and the 'us vs them' shtick is getting so boring.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Now, conservatism, people who are conservative will look at a culture and look at a society, such as ours, and we will have the utmost faith in the individual. . . .
I really detest the terms 'liberal' and 'conservative', because they're unconstructive and polarising, but if you're going to go around make wild generalisations like that I feel like I should at least say a few words in response. My definition of conservatism and liberalism seem to be almost exactly opposite.
Liberalism, in my view is fundamentally about having faith in ordinary people's ability to make the best choice for themselves about how they want to live their lives. Conservatism, on the other hand, seems to be more about making the decisions for society based on what is considered (by conservatives) to be the ideal way of life.
Abortion and gay marriage are two issues that imediately spring to mind that illustrate this point. While conservatives would generally agree that it is not in society's best interest to allow abortion or gay marriage, liberals would generally agree that the individual should be allowed to make this choice for themsleves.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
i must not be paying attention. or as a humanties student i just dont give a fuck as i always say what i want and am more than ready to back up my words. any media that is censoring is not media i pay any heed to anyway. so if the wowsers want their power then eventually they will reap what they sow. meanwhile i'll just sit back, laugh my arse off at the narrrowminded fools and continue to counter any influence they may have over my children.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
Now I've got The Who playing in my head. . .
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss. . .
We won't get fooled again!
-C Addison
We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the foe, that' all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!
I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
-C Addison
Isn't that the beauty of Freedom of Speech? You can just break into song whenever you feel like!
There's only one problem with your plan. Johnny doesn't have any balls!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Cheers me dear!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
i would say it's because of the liberal political landscape....but that's from the right wing whack job point of view.
pc IS censorship. conditioning to make you feel guilty about expressing your point of view is censorship....
conservatives encourage debate because we know we can win on the issues.
libs label you as a hate monger, sexist, racist, biggot, etc, instead of talking about substance. seriously, you can make a drinking game out of it...get into a debate with a liberal and set the clock...over / under is 30 secs before they label you as a biggot.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Mornin Hawk!
Getting a bit us and them aren't you?
I'd probably be considered a liberal, (which is classic because I'm definitely not what would be defined as a Liberal in this country! ) I'm certainly no conservative and I do not support censorship in any form. You could argue/ debate with me in a drinking game and I probably would start name calling at some point, but one would hope that you would recognize that I'm pissed, understand that I do not overall hold that view of you and dismiss what I'm saying as not me labelling you but for what it is, the drunken ranting of a friend. At some point you have to decide about the sticks and stones.
And you have to recognize that if someone is calling you a name, do you value their opinion or are you just getting a wee bit miffed coz they may just have struck a nerve?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
First off, I haven't seen or heard anyone called a biggot or whatever just because they're a conservative, ever. Second, if someone says something that deserves the term biggot as a response, why do you want to shut down anyone's ability to express that thought? Do you think biggot's points should just be accepted with no rebuttal?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
just my personal experience...you are strong on immigration...you must hate mexicans...you are strong on national security, you want to watch everyone's phone conversations and want to kill all arabs...death to palestine.
you see it all the time here on this site. i think the fact that rush and beck, who express opinions that i do, are ridiculed as hate mongers is embarrassing. it's not addressing their points. it's easy to dismiss them. whatever, i think we're all being fucked by a "media class" that is telling us to be polarized when we really aren't. it's not about left and right...it's about right and wrong...and elite vs us.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Hi purple hawk. It's not the opinions that I as a liberal have a problem with, but the way folks like Rush present them. I'm not familiar with Beck, so I can't comment. Rush has said some pretty hateful things. I understand he does this as an entertainment tool, but you have to understand why someone such as myself would not find Rush reasonable. This is not to say that there aren't those on the left like Rush. I don't respect them either. And you're right, it is polarizing.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
No one can make you feel guilty but yourself. That's a silly arguement that just because your strong on immigration that you hate Mexicans. But...if you fill your points up with hateful, derogatory statements about them...don't be surprised when you get called on it. That's the case with your dears, Rush and Glen....they always use such hateful, nasty ways of making their points. There are plenty of people I disagree with here like, zstillings, chopitdown, ffg who make points without coming across so nasty and negative.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
sorry a book you're a great American, but you haven't listened to Rush or Beck if you actually believe that. I would not listen to these people if theyy actually did spew hatred. they would not have such a high following if they did either. and hell...these idiots i work with listen to pbs...but they are always days behind neo-con radio that's where our polarization stems from, we choose our own sources of information, and we assume the worst about each other.
as far as posters go, remember it's easier to come across as less hatefull when you are the majority.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Ok love, well I'm struggling with what appears to be your need to "pigeon hole" people or make generalizations about them. But I could be reading that wrong. I'm pretty sure that you are so much more as an individual than a conservative with firmly held beliefs. Just the same as everyone is so much more than their political ideology.
A Liberal here is probably what you would consider a Conservative. I don't support the Liberals here but then I'm not a huge fan of picking a team and sticking with it blindly anyway. Each issue on it's merits as far as I'm concerned. If someone from any political leaning comes up with a reasonable solution to a problem or they are willing to negotiate to solve a problem, then I'm perfectly happy with that.
I don't associate being a conservative with being a bigot. I usually accept that everyone is capable of bigotry at some point in their lives, it is human nature. Anyway, you express away. It's always good for people to share their views.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
way i see it, conservatism allows you to be an individual
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
I have listened to both of them and thought they were extremely hateful and condescending. All they ever talk about is how liberals are ruining the country and how people are idiots if they think this or that. It's a huge turn off. I agree the media creates polarization but I think people like Rush and Beck are two of the biggest ones out there encouraging this.
The posters I mentioned aren't liberals so I would say they are not in the majority here.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
You do realize of course that I have no idea, nor do I particularly care, who Rush and Beck are?
I started this thread not because I wanted to see people argue back and forth about political parties ad infinitum because there's more than enough forums for that around here. No I started this thread because I wanted to hear about what average jammers thought they could do to win back the freedoms we appear to be losing. And I wanted to hear everyone, average people's voices. About themselves or about where they felt they were being censored or or where that they felt their freedom of speech had been eroded. AND what they thought we could do about it.
That's how I'd like this thread to continue please.
Rush and Beck and George and all the other politicians ALL AROUND THE WORLD people ALL AROUND THE WORLD are already getting too much air time! Its time to hear from the rest of us now. So not to censor you or stop you from your debate. BUT SERIOUSLY, where have your personal freedoms been stripped? Where have you been censored? What do you think we can do about it?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
from my point of view, all my life i grew up watching comedians, and mainstream culture mocking my views...to me, i don't view the "new" media as polarizing, i see them as standing up and saying...damn straight yo
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Jeanie, pm me and i'll give you my rush access...partisanship aside...give it two weeks, and you'll be hooked
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Ok! I've got no clue, because I don't really know what you think that entails.
I just know that I'm me Hawk and I'll accept or reject information as I choose depending on my situation at the time. To be honest, I'm probably a fence sitter. Stone the crows!!
But I do think you are an individual regardless of how you view yourself.
Oh!! And I'm not a fan of Immigration as it exists in it's current format, but I don't hate anyone.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Me? Hooked on a politician???? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Oh sorry sweetie, I'm not laughing at you but damn that's such a funny idea, me being 'hooked' on a politician!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
he's not a politician...he's a talk show host...challenges people to think different...
see the "barack the magic negro" thread.
rush calls a liberal (who doesn't think barak obama is "black enough) as being a racist and rush is painted the racist...pretty much sums up the debate in America these days.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Oh!! Ok! Der Jeanie! :rolleyes: Got it!
You know, as an outsider looking in, you guys to seem to take this stuff VERY seriously. I mean someone says something, someone objects, someone objects to their objection, someone comes in and labels one of the objecters, someone else leaps to defend............at some point you guys all just take a deep breath, have a little laugh at yourselves and each other, and head off to the pub right? Because seems to me there's a chronic self absorption going on. Anyway, just an observation. I'll take a look at your talk show host. Is he as good as Jerry?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
true he pokes fun at the left...but he is engaging in philosophical arguments....and has some interesting things to say, which is why people listen....when he derides liberalism, it's not personal, it's a rejection of that philosophy...one of my favorite monologues ever:
Now, conservatism, people who are conservative will look at a culture and look at a society, such as ours, and we will have the utmost faith in the individual. We believe that the individual, when properly educated and informed (and, by the way, unshackled), we believe the individual has the ability to triumph over whatever odds that individual faces. We believe that extraordinary people are simply ordinary people could go extraordinary things. The great among us never set out to be great. They became great by virtue of accolades as a result of their achievements. Liberals on the other hand look at the average American with condescension. They don't think the average American has what it takes. The average American is stupider than the liberal. The average American doesn't have the ambition or the wherewithal to overcome these odds -- and besides they make a victim out of everybody, and they do it by saying, "That black doesn't have a chance because of racism and white people. The illegal doesn't have a chance because of the nativist and protectionist among us. Women don't have a chance because of sexism and so forth," and so the liberal mind-set and construct of people is entirely negative. It's condescending; it is arrogant, and it is almost holds people in contempt.
Conservatism is just the opposite. Now, everything descends from that. When liberals get power, politically, and start putting together policy, what's the policy going to be? "Empower government, because those schlubs out there cannot live their lives properly, happily, without us. Senior citizens won't eat; the poor won't get off the soup lines. The only people that make it big are the rich, and we've gotta find a way to take away from them what they've worked for." Conservatism, when it gets power and starts defining policy, you get things like welfare reform, which is rooted in the belief that people who work, which is where many people derive their identity, will experience achievement and pride, will be motivated to go even further. You can take this simple definition of conservatism versus liberalism and apply it to virtually any aspect of the political spectrum, and you'll see that it applies. So it's not complicated at all to explain the difference. This is what has been missing in Republican Party politics, philosophically for way too many years, and needs to return....
Conservatism looks at average people and sees mountains of potential, wants only the best for everybody because that's how you get a great country. Liberalism looks at the average American with contempt, sees hopelessness, no chance whatsoever of that person becoming anything without the assistance of liberals and big government and so forth. Now, I want to illustrate this in another way, just to show you how conservatism and liberalism actually are and how the liberals end up in succeeding, in some cases, in misdefining conservatism
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
i think we do here...at least the regulars i talk to we have strong opinions, and maybe some of us are quick to be ultra-sensative (not me of course ), but i would rather strongly disagree with someone who deeply believes in what they are saying than agree with someone for the sake of agreement.
but i'm always eager to laugh at myself and whip up a bad ass martini...just don't ask for a chocolate or fruity one
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
I dont think you could paint with a broader stroke.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
the truth doesn't hurt so much when you ignore it
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
He really shouldn't quit his day job and start trying to read minds. :rolleyes: That was one of the biggest crocks of shit I've ever wasted my time reading on here and the 'us vs them' shtick is getting so boring.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I really detest the terms 'liberal' and 'conservative', because they're unconstructive and polarising, but if you're going to go around make wild generalisations like that I feel like I should at least say a few words in response. My definition of conservatism and liberalism seem to be almost exactly opposite.
Liberalism, in my view is fundamentally about having faith in ordinary people's ability to make the best choice for themselves about how they want to live their lives. Conservatism, on the other hand, seems to be more about making the decisions for society based on what is considered (by conservatives) to be the ideal way of life.
Abortion and gay marriage are two issues that imediately spring to mind that illustrate this point. While conservatives would generally agree that it is not in society's best interest to allow abortion or gay marriage, liberals would generally agree that the individual should be allowed to make this choice for themsleves.
-C Addison
i must not be paying attention. or as a humanties student i just dont give a fuck as i always say what i want and am more than ready to back up my words. any media that is censoring is not media i pay any heed to anyway. so if the wowsers want their power then eventually they will reap what they sow. meanwhile i'll just sit back, laugh my arse off at the narrrowminded fools and continue to counter any influence they may have over my children.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say