Africa's problems really are not just Africa's problems.
Fuckin mankind problems belong to mankind.
No one country, no one race, is better or less than another.
I wonder who went to Africa and removed MANKIND from Africa
and brought them to a distant land filled with MANKIND!
That distant land was taken from one MANKIND for another.
MANKIND abuses MANKIND and all that is within or out of grasp.
Shit like this has been going on since MANKIND.
Fuckin Man isn't kind.
(MAN) ISN'T(KIND).
so in the long run; you think the africans brought to america whould have been better off in africa?
so in the long run; you think the africans brought to america whould have been better off in africa?
well it was abducting an fellow human-being from their homeland
that cant have good positive energy to anything at all.
those effects last a long time.
its been done everywhere not just Africa.
ppl treat each other like shit.
its more than political bullshit, although it is a big part.
alot of ppl simply do not give a fuck about anyone but themselves.
So my desire to be happy isn't selfish?? I don't understand that.
It can be. it depends on what it takes to make you happy. If it infringes on another's happiness then it can get more and more selfish depending on the degree.
If people will produce things out of kindness, why don't you make me a hat? Or better yet, why won't you just make me 1,000,000 hats so I can give them out to my friends? You're not unkind are you?
I didn't know you needed a hat. Are you sure you need that many hats?
so in the long run; you think the africans brought to america whould have been better off in africa?
That's a "what-if" scenerio. But, yes, had Europeans and later Americans never gone in and raped and pillaged the continent in the first place, there's a damn good chance that Africans would be better off now.
It can be. it depends on what it takes to make you happy. If it infringes on another's happiness then it can get more and more selfish depending on the degree.
Ok. Let's say I want to be happy, but I don't want to infringe on another's happiness. What's the word for that?
I didn't know you needed a hat. Are you sure you need that many hats?
Of course! I have many hatless friends. They all need those hats.
Where the original system is altered often for selfish interests
What were the interests behind the "original system"??? I mean, if the original system was supposed to serve people's self-interests, then how has anything been "altered"??? The only way the dictator could alter the system vis a vis interests is to turn around and give that money to another nation, instead of himself or others in his own nation.
We all know that people behave more poorly in groups than on their own. This principal of human actions is called mob mentality. Knowing that this is basic human behavior why do people continue to want and expect governments and corporations to behave better than they themselves behave on their own?
Why would you ever expect a group of people to be able to reverse billions of years of evolution and all of a sudden throw off the shackles of human behavior and all of a sudden behave better as a group than as individuals?
Basic human behavior tells us that the bigger and more powerful we make government that the worst off we'll be.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
What were the interests behind the "original system"??? I mean, if the original system was supposed to serve people's self-interests, then how has anything been "altered"??? The only way the dictator could alter the system vis a vis interests is to turn around and give that money to another nation, instead of himself or others in his own nation.
He left out the more proportionate distribution if it's corrupt socialism
With capitalism, I guess these policies fit the self interest mold.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
We all know that people behave more poorly in groups than on their own. This principal of human actions is called mob mentality. Knowing that this is basic human behavior why do people continue to want and expect governments and corporations to behave better than they themselves behave on their own?
Why would you ever expect a group of people to be able to reverse billions of years of evolution and all of a sudden throw off the shackles of human behavior and all of a sudden behave better as a group than as individuals?
Oh, please don't tell me you believe in that "evolution" clap-trap. There's simply no such thing as "billions of years."
From Abook's point of view it seems to be a collossal failure. From my point of view it awful, but until we come up with something better it's still the best option we have. But knowing it's mob mentality downside we are stupid to let government be anything but as small as possible.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
We all know that people behave more poorly in groups than on their own. This principal of human actions is called mob mentality. Knowing that this is basic human behavior why do people continue to want and expect governments and corporations to behave better than they themselves behave on their own?
Why would you ever expect a group of people to be able to reverse billions of years of evolution and all of a sudden throw off the shackles of human behavior and all of a sudden behave better as a group than as individuals?
Basic human behavior tells us that the bigger and more powerful we make government that the worst off we'll be.
Groups/corporations have to regulated because they don't don't behave better than people do on their own. Power/money always corrupts and it's up to us to prevent it from being able to happen.
I believe people are evolving away from the old ways. People are coming together now not out of power lust but to do good in the world.
History has shown us that government can be bought out from under us and no longer serve our interests when this happens. These problems can be fixed and replaced with better leadership and laws protecting the people from moves made by the power hungry. Conditioning has a lot to do with this too but that's another thread.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
From Abook's point of view it seems to be a collossal failure. From my point of view it awful, but until we come up with something better it's still the best option we have. But knowing it's mob mentality downside we are stupid to let government be anything but as small as possible.
If this statement is true, then I disagree with both of you. Of course, you can really only speak for yourself. But, then, I probably still disagree with Abook.
Again, a mixed approach is the best - and I think we've got a fairly decent set-up here if we could just work out where to spend the generated funds. I say healthcare, others say war. I'm right, and they're wrong - but I just can't bring myself to take away their power to vote.
Perhaps it's because I'm not always right. Provided we all continue to have a say - no matter how far out some may be - the mob mentality aspect you mention will be tempered.
What about when your 'selfish' gets in the way of another's happiness?
Then I undercut my own rights, my own purposes, and my own happiness. That's not very selfish.
You know a lot of bald guys.
Yeah, it's crazy. How are those hats coming? They're dropping like flies over here.
The citizenry didn't get a very proportionate amount, did they?
Of course not. But what claim did they have to it?
Why not?
To steal something is to deny the rights of property, a right the theif is likely claiming in a contradictory manner. And to "steal to own" is not a moral code that works very well in the long run.
To steal something is to deny the rights of property, a right the theif is likely claiming in a contradictory manner. And to "steal to own" is not a moral code that works very well in the long run.
We've argued property before. We will never see it the same.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Yeah, it's crazy. How are those hats coming? They're dropping like flies over here.
You'll have a continuous return if you plant some trees. They produce the shade you're looking for, don't require production or wages per se, and merely require that you promise not to cut them down.
Man, I should be in government. I just provided you what you need and helped alieviate Abook's work load.
You'll have a continuous return if you plant some trees. They produce the shade you're looking for, don't require production or wages per se, and merely require that you promise not to cut them down.
Man, I should be in government. I just provided you what you need and helped alieviate Abook's work load.
Huh? You didn't provide anything. Plant some trees or make some hats.
That sounds like an exchange. I thought you were a socialist? The idea that I should have to do something in return for my hats shows me that you're nothing but unkind and selfish.
They needed it.
I need hats.
We've argued property before. We will never see it the same.
You better start looking then -- property rights and poverty reduction go hand in hand.
See, in these threads...I feel it's quite hard to be understood by people who generally think in the logic only mode. I use much more emotional intelligence and it's quite hard to go about expressing that in a logic based debate. We are just wired too differently to understand the most of the good in where the other is coming from. I don't think of you guys who disagree with me as evil or horrible people...I just take comfort in knowing that we're just different. There are those who get where I'm coming from and those that simply won't...and we all have to live together in this world.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I provided an idea. Here's a few seeds: (.) (.) (.) (.) Once they've grown, they'll provide more.
Those aren't seeds. Those are periods. And ideas are non-rival, so you haven't actually redistributed anything here. Give me some fucking hats, damnit!!!!!
Those aren't seeds. Those are periods. And ideas are non-rival, so you haven't actually redistributed anything here. Give me some fucking hats, damnit!!!!!
Meh...nevermind.
So what if it's nonrival? I'm not asking for compensation, and you can spread it to whomever you like. And who said anything about redistribution? Having a shaved head myself, I'm just happen to be sympathetic to your friends' problem and I'm offering a solution that's only economic quality is the promise you have to make to not cut them down.
it is disgusting what ppl want.
ppl seem to have to obtain everything.
materialistic greed.
it is on a rampage.
gotta have the latest style of brand name clothes.
gotta drive the high dollar new cars, new one each year.
motorcycles, 4 wheelers, boats, motor-homes, trucks, cars.
2 car garage over-flowing gasoline, toys a must.
gotta have the new video game thingy.
gotta get the latest biggest flatest big screen tv.
waste everything self centered ego fucks.
paris hilton, warshiping hollywood nut suckin a-holes.
high dollar materialistic eyeballs are fogging over reality like cataracts.
reality shows, movie/rock stars top-notch super-hero god/goddesses.
atheletic super-star, nascar blizzard frenzy.
build the tower of the massive money machines.
heavy equipment power struggle for human-being removal, crush em.
fuck'em.
2 for 1 sale discount unused over-sized undercut over-priced.
myspace, your-space, outter-space.
gagets, thingys.
stockmarket corruption global trading.
whos sharing?
super-size, xtra, biggy, double, triple, king-size.
nothing, zero, zip, nada.
in fact, was it chile or brazil that went back to a socialist or something form of government and actually started pulling themselves out?
Hi, I have not read the entire thread, I'm on it but I wanted to clarify this statement, well at least the Chile part. However, the only socialist country with 100% central planned economy in Latin America is Cuba. Brazil is currently ruled by a social-democratic coallition.
I'll try to summarize it the best I can. Chile regained its democracy in 1989 and the first democratic government took office in 1990. The elected coallition (Concertación Democrática) is comprised by three parties: DC (Christian Democrats, ala Helmut Kohl's party) + PPD (center left) + socialist party. Public policy and economic policy in broad terms can be considered a social-democracy. That is: a strong private sector + a State devoted to provide a strong social protection system for its citizens, particularly the vulnerable groups. Chile's development strategy has been based in becoming an exports-based economy, but not just commodities, there's been a strong State policy to foster export with added value. Even though cooper exports are still the most important ones (in terms of GDP) there's a clear decreasing trend. I might add that most public services were privatized and, for the most part, they work fairly well 'cause the Government has implemented efficient regulations systems. So far the outcomes have been very positive. Chile's poverty in 1990 was approx. 38% and in 2006 it was approx. 13%. It is still high in comparison to OECD countries, but the decrease in poverty and indigency has been outstanding. Right now Chile is the Latin American country with the lowest poverty rate. Of course, there's a lot to be done still, in terms of inequality, health-care, education and reseach&development investment, but still, it's been quite the transformation...
Accurate data can be found at: http://www.eclac.cl (UN's Economic Commision for Latin America and the Caribbean)
In summary Chile is a capitalist country with a social-democratic government. So is Brazil
Sorry for the off-topic comment,
See, in these threads...I feel it's quite hard to be understood by people who generally think in the logic only mode. I use much more emotional intelligence and it's quite hard to go about expressing that in a logic based debate. We are just wired too differently to understand the most of the good in where the other is coming from. I don't think of you guys who disagree with me as evil or horrible people...I just take comfort in knowing that we're just different. There are those who get where I'm coming from and those that simply won't...and we all have to live together in this world.
The picture of the two kids is very sad, that's all I see. One could make the case of the malnourishing of the African kid being caused by the fat kid, however I fail to see it, at least using economic rationale. The only scenario in which it could be a cause-effect issue is if that those two kids were the only two people integrating the economy...
About Africa, well the way I see it, the root of the problem is for the most part political. By political I mean: corruption and lack of human capital in decision-making areas. Africa receives billions of dollars via donations, and unconditioned aid from every source one can think of. There's the NGO's, private donations, the international campaigns, country donations, and plenty of the UN aid resources go to Africa. However, the issue at stake, at least that's what many evaluation and assesments report state, regarding unconditioned-aid is accountability. For the most part those resources are not being received by those who actually need it, corruption is so entangled in many African governments that makes it extremely difficult to actually benefit people.
On the other hand, there's the issue of conditioned foreign-aid, which is an EU modality, for the most part. That's where African countries have difficulties, 'cause they fail to meet all the requisites that such aid comprises.
Comments
so in the long run; you think the africans brought to america whould have been better off in africa?
well it was abducting an fellow human-being from their homeland
that cant have good positive energy to anything at all.
those effects last a long time.
its been done everywhere not just Africa.
ppl treat each other like shit.
its more than political bullshit, although it is a big part.
alot of ppl simply do not give a fuck about anyone but themselves.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
It can be. it depends on what it takes to make you happy. If it infringes on another's happiness then it can get more and more selfish depending on the degree.
I didn't know you needed a hat. Are you sure you need that many hats?
Where the original system is altered often for selfish interests
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Most definitely.
Ok. Let's say I want to be happy, but I don't want to infringe on another's happiness. What's the word for that?
Of course! I have many hatless friends. They all need those hats.
What were the interests behind the "original system"??? I mean, if the original system was supposed to serve people's self-interests, then how has anything been "altered"??? The only way the dictator could alter the system vis a vis interests is to turn around and give that money to another nation, instead of himself or others in his own nation.
Why would you ever expect a group of people to be able to reverse billions of years of evolution and all of a sudden throw off the shackles of human behavior and all of a sudden behave better as a group than as individuals?
Basic human behavior tells us that the bigger and more powerful we make government that the worst off we'll be.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Being nice, thoughtful considerate of the lives of others. Whatever word you like.
Why do they need the hats?
He left out the more proportionate distribution if it's corrupt socialism
With capitalism, I guess these policies fit the self interest mold.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
"Basic human behavior" also claimed that representative government would never work. Yet, so far so good.
O.K., O.K. So far, so-so.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Groups/corporations have to regulated because they don't don't behave better than people do on their own. Power/money always corrupts and it's up to us to prevent it from being able to happen.
I believe people are evolving away from the old ways. People are coming together now not out of power lust but to do good in the world.
History has shown us that government can be bought out from under us and no longer serve our interests when this happens. These problems can be fixed and replaced with better leadership and laws protecting the people from moves made by the power hungry. Conditioning has a lot to do with this too but that's another thread.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Again, a mixed approach is the best - and I think we've got a fairly decent set-up here if we could just work out where to spend the generated funds. I say healthcare, others say war. I'm right, and they're wrong - but I just can't bring myself to take away their power to vote.
Perhaps it's because I'm not always right. Provided we all continue to have a say - no matter how far out some may be - the mob mentality aspect you mention will be tempered.
I like selfish.
Because they're bald and the exposure of the top of their heads to the sun leads to an increased risk of skin cancer.
How so? Corrupt dictators almost always spend their money, which mean lots of other people get it.
Theft never fits into "the self interest mold".
What about when your 'selfish' gets in the way of another's happiness?
You know a lot of bald guys.
The citizenry didn't get a very proportionate amount, did they?
Why not?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Then I undercut my own rights, my own purposes, and my own happiness. That's not very selfish.
Yeah, it's crazy. How are those hats coming? They're dropping like flies over here.
Of course not. But what claim did they have to it?
To steal something is to deny the rights of property, a right the theif is likely claiming in a contradictory manner. And to "steal to own" is not a moral code that works very well in the long run.
No, it's not.
I'll make the hats when you stop using the roads.
They needed it.
We've argued property before. We will never see it the same.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Man, I should be in government. I just provided you what you need and helped alieviate Abook's work load.
Huh? You didn't provide anything. Plant some trees or make some hats.
That sounds like an exchange. I thought you were a socialist? The idea that I should have to do something in return for my hats shows me that you're nothing but unkind and selfish.
I need hats.
You better start looking then -- property rights and poverty reduction go hand in hand.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Those aren't seeds. Those are periods. And ideas are non-rival, so you haven't actually redistributed anything here. Give me some fucking hats, damnit!!!!!
Meh...nevermind.
You just made the internet symbol for titties...though I suppose they could be used for shade, as well.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
It gave me the giggles.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
dig it.
Hi, I have not read the entire thread, I'm on it but I wanted to clarify this statement, well at least the Chile part. However, the only socialist country with 100% central planned economy in Latin America is Cuba. Brazil is currently ruled by a social-democratic coallition.
I'll try to summarize it the best I can. Chile regained its democracy in 1989 and the first democratic government took office in 1990. The elected coallition (Concertación Democrática) is comprised by three parties: DC (Christian Democrats, ala Helmut Kohl's party) + PPD (center left) + socialist party. Public policy and economic policy in broad terms can be considered a social-democracy. That is: a strong private sector + a State devoted to provide a strong social protection system for its citizens, particularly the vulnerable groups. Chile's development strategy has been based in becoming an exports-based economy, but not just commodities, there's been a strong State policy to foster export with added value. Even though cooper exports are still the most important ones (in terms of GDP) there's a clear decreasing trend. I might add that most public services were privatized and, for the most part, they work fairly well 'cause the Government has implemented efficient regulations systems. So far the outcomes have been very positive. Chile's poverty in 1990 was approx. 38% and in 2006 it was approx. 13%. It is still high in comparison to OECD countries, but the decrease in poverty and indigency has been outstanding. Right now Chile is the Latin American country with the lowest poverty rate. Of course, there's a lot to be done still, in terms of inequality, health-care, education and reseach&development investment, but still, it's been quite the transformation...
Accurate data can be found at: http://www.eclac.cl (UN's Economic Commision for Latin America and the Caribbean)
In summary Chile is a capitalist country with a social-democratic government. So is Brazil
Sorry for the off-topic comment,
Peace,
Caterina
EDIT: to complete the post
just please reply to my post with #10,000
About Africa, well the way I see it, the root of the problem is for the most part political. By political I mean: corruption and lack of human capital in decision-making areas. Africa receives billions of dollars via donations, and unconditioned aid from every source one can think of. There's the NGO's, private donations, the international campaigns, country donations, and plenty of the UN aid resources go to Africa. However, the issue at stake, at least that's what many evaluation and assesments report state, regarding unconditioned-aid is accountability. For the most part those resources are not being received by those who actually need it, corruption is so entangled in many African governments that makes it extremely difficult to actually benefit people.
On the other hand, there's the issue of conditioned foreign-aid, which is an EU modality, for the most part. That's where African countries have difficulties, 'cause they fail to meet all the requisites that such aid comprises.
My 2 cents
Peace
Caterina