somebody blew up america

musicismylife78

as a popular black leader, possibly our next president, obama has a responsibility. A responsibility to the millions of black people who feel continually disillusioned and disenfrancished by our system in general, people who feel they have no stake in america.

Baraka expresses that desire better than Obama ever could.

Obama is manufactured, whereas baraka is alarmist and genuine. Whatever your opinion of his statements, Baraka is speaking the truth as he sees it, and is speaking from his heart. He is genuinely pissed off.

Again, black history is filled with great authors (morrison), poets (hughes), singers (holiday), who have expressed the pain and rage of living as essentially a second class citizen in America. Those documents and albums are valuable and almost without exception powerful.

But as whites I dont think we should be bashing Baraka.

I disagree with those who say he is a liar or distorting facts. He is actually saying some important truths. He lists real historical and current people, and events.

Sure there are bad apples in every race, and not all whites are bad people, but lets face it people, the white race has seriously messed up, and continually, even currently.

We claim to be an all encompassing country, a place where everyone can make it, a place where skin color has as little importance as sock color or shirt color, a place where one can rise up from poor and become a donald trump or paris hilton.

But those are pipe dreams and we all know this.

We see it daily. Ground Zero is often talked about, but very rarely do we EVER here mention of the fact that the towers were built on ancient native and slave remains. The banks like Aetna and others who profitted off slave labor, continue to refuse to give that money back. We as a nation refuse to even CONSIDER reparations. All whites dismiss it on site. We refuse to believe that the entire system is slanted towards whites. We refuse to come to terms with the fact that its harder for blacks to buy houses because of discrimination and unfair practices. We refuse to believe that racist cops are shooting anyone on site. We refuse to believe racism still lives here in the us of a. We refuse to believe the justice system is racist and tell ourselves that blacks are more violent than whites, because after all the majority of those in prison are black.

As a white male, this poem should make me uncomfortable, and it should make us all uncomfortable. Its expressing a rage, a rage that seems almost primal, a desire to be heard and to be treated fairly, a desire to not be maligned and lynched and sent to the new slave labor camps called federal prisons.

Its fine to disagree with Baraka, but I find no reason to call him stupid. Would you call Langston Hughes or Toni Morrison stupid?

They all are expressing a truth, an important one. And I for one, refuse to be like most whites, someone who nods but doesnt listen, someone who doesnt give a damn.

To prove my statements, has anyone read Morrisons first novel The Bluest Eye. it is as rage filled, as pissed off, as incendiary and as radical as Barakas poem, but is less overt. But both documents are coming from the same place.

I for one am tired of blacks continually being placated, and maligned and abused.

MLC2006

this Baraka once said that all white males in America are raised to be fags. now, I was not raised to be a "fag" and I was also not raised to use such derogatory terms about people. the rhetoric that he spews out is offensive, nothing more, nothing less. I don't doubt that he has faced racism in his life, but when comes out with this trash, he reduces himself to the level of the racists that he claims to be against. MLK took the high ground and proved that he was above the fray, and that is why he is regarded in such a good light. Baraka is nothing, he will not be remembered when he dies in a few years and I highly doubt that most HS aged children of any race could tell you who he is. if you think someone saying that other people are rapists and fags is a "great American", then you are out of touch.

as for Obama, I don't care one way or another. but if you think he would take this neo-militant approach of Baraka and get more the 1% of the popular vote, you're a fool. we may one day have a black president, but it WON'T be a black militant, you can bank on that.

chopitdown

Cheguevara6 wrote:

He should be rightly calling for reperations. He should be calling for the release of all political prisoners. He should be calling for a system where cops are not needed, but if by any chance they are mandatory, that the neighborhood itself votes on who should be a cop and who shouldnt. He should be calling for an end to the drug war and the release of the majority of the 1 million plus black men in jail, not for killing or raping, but for nonviolent drug offences.

Obama isnt black enough. Its simple.

Reparations for whom? As I've said before if there is anyone alive today who was a slave in America they should be compensated, but I think if they do reparations the countries in Africa and Europe should kick money in too, after all Africans and Europeans also sold Africans in the Slave trade, in fact African Americans even owned slaves in some places, so blanket reparations are very irresponsible. A system where cops are not needed and if it's mandatory the community gets to choose who they are? while they a good IDEA you seem to have a lot of faith in human beings when you can look through history and see tons of examples of humans doing terrible things to humans, why would that change now? And to say someone isn't black enough is just crazy talk. That's the kind of crap that keeps a lot of african americans from really trying. The culture usually makes fun of people for trying to get ahead and for bettering themselves, unless they happen to be athletic or musically inclined, which is sad. There are a lot of race problems still, and calling someone not black enough is evidence of it. Maybe you should say he doesn't share the ideals that you do, there's no need to stereotype him and say he isn't black enough.

musicismylife78

MLC2006 wrote:

this Baraka once said that all white males in America are raised to be fags. now, I was not raised to be a "fag" and I was also not raised to use such derogatory terms about people. the rhetoric that he spews out is offensive, nothing more, nothing less. I don't doubt that he has faced racism in his life, but when comes out with this trash, he reduces himself to the level of the racists that he claims to be against. MLK took the high ground and proved that he was above the fray, and that is why he is regarded in such a good light. Baraka is nothing, he will not be remembered when he dies in a few years and I highly doubt that most HS aged children of any race could tell you who he is. if you think someone saying that other people are rapists and fags is a "great American", then you are out of touch.

as for Obama, I don't care one way or another. but if you think he would take this neo-militant approach of Baraka and get more the 1% of the popular vote, you're a fool. we may one day have a black president, but it WON'T be a black militant, you can bank on that.

i didnt know he stated that about gays. I find any homophobia sick and gross. And that statement should be condemned. But also I thinik you may be wrong. Baraka was part of the beat generation. he was friends with Kerouac who was rumored to be gay and was friends with ginsberg who was an openly gay male. Why would Kerouac and Ginsberg be friends with someone who hated white gays, which both were?

And to just be fair here, obama aint mister pro gay rights. The only person on the stage at the debates who is for gay marriage is dennis kucinich. Obama isnt for gay marriage. That to me is just as offensive as anything baraka said about white male gays.

I have always been amazed at how one sided this board is. There are two sides to the issues people. And ignoring obama's faults, which include not being supportive of our gay brothers and sisters, is something that is striking and disturbing.

Why wouldnt we ever have a black militant? We have had over 200 years of white male militants as presidents, why not level the playing field?

And my point remains: anyone who seriously thinks the "system" is run by blacks, or latinos or anyone else of color is obviously ingesting copious amounts of lsd. Baraka is right on, because he speaks the truth. Whether you want to believe he hates all whites is up to you. And remember what I said before, he was a leader and a friend to many in the beat movement, which was a largely white male group of people, and a large amount of them were gay. For me though, Baraka's statements are truth because he is made at a system that we can all agree is run by white males. We have never had a president who wasnt a white male. The police force has traditionally been run by white males. The jails are run by white males. The corporations that fund Obama's campaign are largely white male run. And on and on

Please address my other concerns:

Why are you singling out Baraka? Why is someone like Toni Morrison, Maya Angelou, Billie Holliday, and Langston Hughes up for your ridicule?

It would be sad indeed if no HS student knew of Baraka's poetry. His poetry is important, and you must live in la la land if you think he doesnt have reason to be pissed off and angry at a system that continually oppressed and murders those of a different skin tone.

cornnifer

Cheguevara6 wrote:

Obama isnt black enough. Its simple.

?

LMFAO! Wo are you? The White spokesman for Black America? Just what makes a person "Black Enough"?

cornnifer

This is the second thread in two days that proves to me this train aint really movin'
"Blacks straight to the back of the train!"

sheesh.

musicismylife78

MLC2006 wrote:

this Baraka once said that all white males in America are raised to be fags. now, I was not raised to be a "fag" and I was also not raised to use such derogatory terms about people. the rhetoric that he spews out is offensive, nothing more, nothing less. I don't doubt that he has faced racism in his life, but when comes out with this trash, he reduces himself to the level of the racists that he claims to be against. MLK took the high ground and proved that he was above the fray, and that is why he is regarded in such a good light. Baraka is nothing, he will not be remembered when he dies in a few years and I highly doubt that most HS aged children of any race could tell you who he is. if you think someone saying that other people are rapists and fags is a "great American", then you are out of touch.

as for Obama, I don't care one way or another. but if you think he would take this neo-militant approach of Baraka and get more the 1% of the popular vote, you're a fool. we may one day have a black president, but it WON'T be a black militant, you can bank on that.

I dont agree with his statement on gays, but lets be fair here buddy. He isntmaking stuff up about rape and such. Slave owners would rape the female slaves. Then you have the whole lynching issue, where it was acceptable for a white to rape a black, but if a black even talked to a white female, he would likely be hung by a tree.

Baraka is a great american. Just as Morrison, and Hughes are great americans.

Thats whats so funny about this thread. The unstated assumption here is:

we as whites like our blacks quiet, moderate and non uppity. Case in point Obama. He isnt some black radical. He is a moderate.

But if blacks are pissed off and upset and have rage, oh they are off their rocker or are silly or are lying.

gue_barium

cornnifer wrote:

This is the second thread in two days that proves to me this train aint really movin'
"Blacks straight to the back of the train!"

sheesh.

At least on two threads.

Amen.

musicismylife78

cornnifer wrote:

LMFAO! Wo are you? The White spokesman for Black America? Just what makes a person "Black Enough"?

read my statement above. I laid it out several times.

musicismylife78

chopitdown wrote:

Reparations for whom? As I've said before if there is anyone alive today who was a slave in America they should be compensated, but I think if they do reparations the countries in Africa and Europe should kick money in too, after all Africans and Europeans also sold Africans in the Slave trade, in fact African Americans even owned slaves in some places, so blanket reparations are very irresponsible. A system where cops are not needed and if it's mandatory the community gets to choose who they are? while they a good IDEA you seem to have a lot of faith in human beings when you can look through history and see tons of examples of humans doing terrible things to humans, why would that change now? And to say someone isn't black enough is just crazy talk. That's the kind of crap that keeps a lot of african americans from really trying. The culture usually makes fun of people for trying to get ahead and for bettering themselves, unless they happen to be athletic or musically inclined, which is sad. There are a lot of race problems still, and calling someone not black enough is evidence of it. Maybe you should say he doesn't share the ideals that you do, there's no need to stereotype him and say he isn't black enough.

a black leader who has a real shot at becoming president and isnt saying ANYTHING on profiling, housing discrimination, racist pigs, the drug war, the judicial system etc... isnt black enough.

Its simple. I have stated this many times.

Obama is a politician. He is a liar, and its as simple as that. He isnt about bringing real change to the country. He is a moderate and a reformist. He wants to change a few laws and then everything will be fine.

Thats silly and childish.

cornnifer

Cheguevara6 wrote:

read my statement above. I laid it out several times.

No you didn't.
i'm curious (its rhetorical, you don't have to answer, i don't expect you to give out personal information here) how pld are you and just where do live?

That "not Black enough" business is straight comedy. Who is Black enough? You?

gue_barium

Cheguevara6 wrote:

a black leader who has a real shot at becoming president and isnt saying ANYTHING on profiling, housing discrimination, racist pigs, the drug war, the judicial system etc... isnt black enough.

Its simple. I have stated this many times.

Obama is a politician. He is a liar, and its as simple as that. He isnt about bringing real change to the country. He is a moderate and a reformist. He wants to change a few laws and then everything will be fine.

Thats silly and childish.

And you're right.

cornnifer

Cheguevara6 wrote:

a black leader who has a real shot at becoming president and isnt saying ANYTHING on profiling, housing discrimination, racist pigs, the drug war, the judicial system etc... isnt black enough.

Its simple. I have stated this many times.

Obama is a politician. He is a liar, and its as simple as that. He isnt about bringing real change to the country. He is a moderate and a reformist. He wants to change a few laws and then everything will be fine.

Thats silly and childish.

What the fuck do you want Obama to say?
"Vote for me. All capitalist pigs and racist devils must die! Fuck you all and goodnight"!

You have much learning to do young padawan.

Uncle Leo

catefrances wrote:

the problem with obama is that he's a politician. and by NOT BLACK ENOUGH what exactly do you mean? do youo consider him as black as malcolm x for example?

Yeah, I don't get "not black enough." Is he blacker than Mitt Romney? Is he blacker than Hillary? His job right now is not to "be black." It's to (well, actually be a Senator) state his case as the best candidate for President.

Uncle Leo

Cheguevara6 wrote:

a black leader who has a real shot at becoming president and isnt saying ANYTHING on profiling, housing discrimination, racist pigs, the drug war, the judicial system etc... isnt black enough.

Its simple. I have stated this many times.

Obama is a politician. He is a liar, and its as simple as that. He isnt about bringing real change to the country. He is a moderate and a reformist. He wants to change a few laws and then everything will be fine.

Thats silly and childish.

I don't know what his feelings are on the drug war, profiling, housing, etc. But I do know this...if he said the things you want him to say, he'd finish somewhere behind the guy that finishes three spaces below Kucinich. He'd be widely labeled a "race baiter" and would be the only candidate consistantly called a racist. The party would distance itself from him. He'd have a lot of interesting soundbytes, but would go back to the Senate, where he would have a much tougher time winning re-election.

I happen to feel that we need more minorities in positions of power. Sometimes pragmatism is needed.

chopitdown

Cheguevara6 wrote:

a black leader who has a real shot at becoming president and isnt saying ANYTHING on profiling, housing discrimination, racist pigs, the drug war, the judicial system etc... isnt black enough.

Its simple. I have stated this many times.

Obama is a politician. He is a liar, and its as simple as that. He isnt about bringing real change to the country. He is a moderate and a reformist. He wants to change a few laws and then everything will be fine.

Thats silly and childish.

don't get me wrong, i'm not a huge fan of obama; I don't agree with his positions. But here's a couple of facts about him and quotes from him re: your assertations.

In a July 2007 article, The New York Times credited Obama with leading the passage of an Illinois state law mandating videotaping of homicide interrogations, and another law that "required the police to collect data on the race of drivers they stopped as a way to monitor racial profiling." The same article also reported that Obama "was a chief sponsor of a law enhancing tax credits for the working poor, played a central role in negotiations over welfare reform and successfully pushed for increasing child care subsidies."[wiki]
..
We know the government can't solve every problem. We know that we've got obligations to ourselves and obligations to our children that no government can meet. We don't expect government to guarantee success in life. But when so many children, when millions of children start off in the race of life so far behind only because of race, only because of class, that's a betrayal of our ideals. That's not just an African-American problem. That is an American problem that we have to solve...

in re: to apologizing for slavery:
You know, I have to confess that I am less interested in apologies, which to me are just words, and more interested in commitment. And as president the expression of grief or sorrow towards our past history is to ensure that we're creating a brighter future for those who've been impacted. That means building schools that work, putting people back to work, making sure that we've got a criminal justice system that is just. Those are the steps that I think as president I'd be much more focused on.



perhaps you should read a little bit about him and not just jump on the not black enough bandwagon.

edit: he just goes about it in a methodical way; he's not going to jump up and down and tell crazy whitey to go to hell, and tell the pigs they don't dont do their job...that will get you nowhere.

NMyTree

Cheguevara6 wrote:

I laughed hard at that assertion, if anything the rage he talks about, is overt, and righteous. The neighborhood that witnessed the most publicized instance of overt police racism, where a black 20 year old coming home from a bachelor party was shot 50 some times by police. And the kid was UNARMED. I dont even live in the neighborhood and I was pissed off.

You're hardly the only white person who was outraged and disturbed by that shooting. You're not the only white person who has sympathy, empathy and compassion.

So stop trying to posture yourself as a white person.....better than all other white people. Your ramblings are delusional, self-serving and highly racist.

You scream outrage at any broad, sweeping generalizations of black people. Yet, you yourself make outrageous and racist broad sweeping generalizations of black people; which stereotype them all as victims of slavery and the evil of white men. When you stereotype white people as all violent racists and former slave owners.

You sir, are a part of the problem. You fail to make any distinctions and acknowledge the history of human behavior and the behavior of african blacks, in general. Their history goes back a long, long way. They are no more innocent or guilty; than any other race of human beings.

When will african blacks make reparations to their very own race, for the violent, murderous and racist genocide they have carried out for a thousand years? How about reparations to the other cultures/races of non-blacks who were equally enslaved, slaughtered and discriminated against by african blacks, for a thousand years?

When will Muslims make reparations for all the violent, murderous and racist/bigoted genocide they have carried out for thousands of years?

When will Catholics?

When will China make reparations to the Japanese for the genocide and murder they carried out? Disgustingly, the people of China at one point in history deemed the Japanese as non-human animals who could be enslaved, butchered and eaten; and they did just that.


When will Christians make reparations?

When will several latino countries make reparations to their latino neighboring country's people; for the violent, murderous genocide they have dealt out to them?

When will Mexico? You think Mexico is above reproach on this subject matter? Guess again. They, themselves have commited some horrifying invasions and genocide; through out their history. They, themselves have committed the very same crimes and invasions; they so dearly hold against the "Gringos".

Ah yes, it's always play the victim time when others do onto you, what you have done to others........for hundreds.....thousands of years.

Human beings are so thick of head and so thin of heart. There's always justification, when they do. There's always outrage when they are the one's it is done to.

Ah yes, victims....one and all. All and one. But we as humans, never learn.

NMyTree

cornnifer wrote:

"Blacks straight to the back of the train!"

sheesh.

Who said that?

blackredyellow

MLC2006 wrote:

this Baraka once said that all white males in America are raised to be fags.

Do you have a source for this or did you just make that up?

NMyTree

Cheguevara6 wrote:

I have always been amazed at how one sided this board is. There are two sides to the issues people.

Holy Moly! Are you kidding me?

You're about as one-sided as it gets!

You see things from one side and one side only.

Half truths, selective memory, selective history and sweeping generalizations is all you submit.

Cheguevara6 wrote:

Originally Posted by Cheguevara6
a black leader who has a real shot at becoming president and isnt saying ANYTHING on profiling, housing discrimination, racist pigs, the drug war, the judicial system etc... isnt black enough.

Its simple. I have stated this many times.

Obama is a politician. He is a liar, and its as simple as that. He isnt about bringing real change to the country. He is a moderate and a reformist. He wants to change a few laws and then everything will be fine.

And this is where you completely miss the point.

This country needs real change, significant change from any and all future leaders and presidents; regardless of their race or religious loyalties!!!!

Not just the black ones. Not just the ones who are black enough. Not just the white ones. Color and race does not matter. If you want to eliminate racisim and wipe it off the map; then start thinking in terms of people, not race.

We need real change, period!!