Dramatic 911 call from right before shooting released

soulsinging

Jeanie wrote:

Have they been arrested?

If Horn had been coming to the aid of Taylor and had shot the offenders in the process this would make it different? Better somehow? He'd still be a "nosey neighbour" and he'd still have shot someone.

i dont know, ive not been following the story.

yes, it would be different. he'd have seen a crime in progress with someone's life directly in danger and he'd have been directly saving their lives by firing in defense of someone's life. not the same as seeing 2 guys leaving a house with a stereo and shooting them for it. perhaps they hurt someone. perhaps they lived there and moved out. the point is he didn't know what was going on and that is NOT good enough to justify killing someone.

catefrances

Jeanie wrote:

Yeah, we know that now, but did he know that then?

i would say, yes he did know that.
not once did he mention to the operator that his neighbour's were home or that they might be in danger. he said he was not going to let them(the burgalrs) get away.

Jeanie

soulsinging wrote:

he should have. he was told by the operator not to leave the house and told them he was going to shoot someone becos they were getting away.

So there's a whole bunch of things he should have done? And the outcome is this is what he has done. I don't think it's unreasonable that he didn't listen to the operator when he was told not to leave the house. I'm not sure I'd always be able to put my faith in an emergency operator. Aside from the outcome and the 911 call do we know anything else about the guy? For instance had this happened to him before? Had there been a spate of home burglaries and home invasions in his area or had he experienced this before?
Did he know that no one was home next door?

catefrances

Jeanie wrote:

So there's a whole bunch of things he should have done? And the outcome is this is what he has done. I don't think it's unreasonable that he didn't listen to the operator when he was told not to leave the house. I'm not sure I'd always be able to put my faith in an emergency operator. Aside from the outcome and the 911 call do we know anything else about the guy? For instance had this happened to him before? Had there been a spate of home burglaries and home invasions in his area or had he experienced this before?
Did he know that no one was home next door?

yes he knew they werent home.otherwise he would have mentioned them, don't you think?

Jeanie

soulsinging wrote:

i dont know, ive not been following the story.

yes, it would be different. he'd have seen a crime in progress with someone's life directly in danger and he'd have been directly saving their lives by firing in defense of someone's life. not the same as seeing 2 guys leaving a house with a stereo and shooting them for it. perhaps they hurt someone. perhaps they lived there and moved out. the point is he didn't know what was going on and that is NOT good enough to justify killing someone.

But can we be sure that his intent was to kill them or even that he's trying to justify it?

soulsinging

Jeanie wrote:

So there's a whole bunch of things he should have done? And the outcome is this is what he has done. I don't think it's unreasonable that he didn't listen to the operator when he was told not to leave the house. I'm not sure I'd always be able to put my faith in an emergency operator. Aside from the outcome and the 911 call do we know anything else about the guy? For instance had this happened to him before? Had there been a spate of home burglaries and home invasions in his area or had he experienced this before?
Did he know that no one was home next door?

a whole bunch of things he should have done? he called 911 and they told him police were on the way. im tired of people disrespecting my life by disobeying traffic laws. im gonna shoot the next guy who cuts me off, cos he might cause an accident next time he does it and i might be saving someone's life. i mean, i cant be sure, but you dont know if ive been in an accident before or if there has been a spate of deadly accidents from reckless driving lately, so you can't judge my actions.

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

i would say, yes he did know that.
not once did he mention to the operator that his neighbour's were home or that they might be in danger. he said he was not going to let them(the burgalrs) get away.

Well not mentioning to the operator that his neighbours were or weren't home and could be in danger doesn't mean that he knew one way or the other.
Just means he didn't mention it in that conversation. Could be a lot of reasons for that. Might not be either. And saying he was not going to let them get away doesn't mean that he intended to kill them.

soulsinging

Jeanie wrote:

But can we be sure that his intent was to kill them or even that he's trying to justify it?

he fired 3 shots into each i believe. hardly a warning. i believe he also said over the phone he was going to kill them before he'd let them get away.

i dont know whether or not he's trying to justify it, but i dont care. he was told to let the police handle it, he decided to act as judge and jury himself, and he can suffer the consequences. but then, im just a mushy east-coast liberal. i lack the balls of steel sported by real american heroes like john wayne, horn, and onelongsong.

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

yes he knew they werent home.otherwise he would have mentioned them, don't you think?

not necessarily.

Jeanie

soulsinging wrote:

a whole bunch of things he should have done? he called 911 and they told him police were on the way. im tired of people disrespecting my life by disobeying traffic laws. im gonna shoot the next guy who cuts me off, cos he might cause an accident next time he does it and i might be saving someone's life. i mean, i cant be sure, but you dont know if ive been in an accident before or if there has been a spate of deadly accidents from reckless driving lately, so you can't judge my actions.

Huh????

catefrances

Jeanie wrote:

Well not mentioning to the operator that his neighbours were or weren't home and could be in danger doesn't mean that he knew one way or the other.
Just means he didn't mention it in that conversation. Could be a lot of reasons for that. Might not be either. And saying he was not going to let them get away doesn't mean that he intended to kill them.

didn't say it did.


and i assure you my first concern would have been for my neighbours had they been home, not their damn DVD player or any other stuff that can easily be replaced.

soulsinging

Jeanie wrote:

not necessarily.

he mentioned repeatedly that they were stealing and getting away. somehow i feel like if someone were in danger and he knew it he'd have jumped at the chance to talk about his rationalizations for lethal force.

Jeanie

soulsinging wrote:

he fired 3 shots into each i believe. hardly a warning. i believe he also said over the phone he was going to kill them before he'd let them get away.

i dont know whether or not he's trying to justify it, but i dont care. he was told to let the police handle it, he decided to act as judge and jury himself, and he can suffer the consequences. but then, im just a mushy east-coast liberal. i lack the balls of steel sported by real american heroes like john wayne, horn, and onelongsong.

Do you feel better now?

Seriously there's no point disussing anything with you, it's like talking to a spoilt child.

catefrances

Jeanie wrote:

not necessarily.

youre being pedantic jeanie.

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

didn't say it did.


and i assure you my first concern would have been for my neighbours had they been home, not their damn DVD player or any other stuff that can easily be replaced.

I know you didn't. I'm simply pointing it out.

And I'm not questioning what your motivations or concerns would be if in the same situation I'm simply trying to understand Horn's.

soulsinging

Jeanie wrote:

Huh????

what's the difference between my decision and horn's?

you said "so there's a whole bunch of things he should have done?" i was asking what you meant by that. and then went on to show that it's pointless to act like the questions you asked (do we know him? was he fed up? had it happened before?) make a difference. they don't. if we're going to say the fact that he'd had enough excuses his killing people, then i can say i've had enough of reckless drivers endangering people so i can kill them.

Jeanie

soulsinging wrote:

he mentioned repeatedly that they were stealing and getting away. somehow i feel like if someone were in danger and he knew it he'd have jumped at the chance to talk about his rationalizations for lethal force.

Well maybe. But I'm not him so I've got no idea how he normally communicates.

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

youre being pedantic jeanie.

No. I'm just trying to gain some understanding.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

That phone call is going to make some rather tidy evidence in court. He'd be better off just shooting the guy, and hoping that dead men don't speak somehow plays in his favor.

Or perhaps realize that his neighbors stereo and coin collection are not worth the jail time. A better weapon probably would have been a video camera, however, who knows how the retaliation thing will go.

I had to testify once for armed robbery (5 guys with guns). I actually recognized the one guy (seen him around before), and saw his face when his mask slipped down. His relatives were in the audience (court) and were writing everything down (i.e. names). I had to say and spell my first and last name for the record. I had to point right at the guy (chained to the other 4 guys in orange jump suits 10-15 feet away right in plain sight) and literally had to say say "that's the guy" I subsequently had to quit that job for fear of safety, and then moved shortly after. Honestly, the paranoia was not worth it. I still never know if one day it will come back to me.

messed up from a lot of angles this subject is,

catefrances

Jeanie wrote:

I know you didn't. I'm simply pointing it out.

And I'm not questioning what your motivations or concerns would be if in the same situation I'm simply trying to understand Horn's.

i know you weren't questioning my motivations or concerns, i was just pointing out that if horn's neighbours were home then his concern should primarily have been with them not their stuff, wouldnt you think? my contention is that he knew his neighbours weren't home therefore his focus was the burglars. wy he chose you ignore th emergency operator i don't know. but he did and he killed people. he has no justification that i can see for using lethal force. if you bring a weapon into a situation, my thinking is you intend to use that weapon.