some old white guys did. ...in an attempt to control humans and for sure control their sexuality.....and it was affective...thousands of years later people are still reading and practicing by it....genius.
I've heard rumors that the bible was actually written by women. Maybe they decided to make homosexuality a sin because they were tired of all the "cute" guys turning out to be gay?
In a religious sense, marriage is an important institution, and a connection of two people and god.... but in the legal sense, it is only important for things like hospital visitation, inheritence, taxes, etc. I think that is where the difference of opinion occur between your view and mine. That is why I would much rather seperate the two, and have a legal version of marriage (call it what you want) that a marriage license signifies, and then for those who want the religious meaning, they can have their ceromony and institution.
the concept of marriage goes back pretty much forever. it has been a virtual societal capstone for the religious as well as the non religious throughout world history. if you don't understand its significance and importance, then i encourage you, as i have someone else, to never get married if you havn't already.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
You can will your estate to whomever you want, but you cannot (at least in Ohio) completely disinherit your spouse without his or her consent. I'm not about to drone on and on about legal technicalities, I'd hope that people would take my word for it when I say that many of our laws are based on the assumption of a nuclear family joined in marriage. Yes, gay couples can provide many of the same privileges for themselves, but they have to jump through hoops to do it. If I die without a will, my husband automatically inherits my estate. If I had a "wife," that would not be the case ... she would get nothing. Same thing goes for who makes my medical decisions, who gets to visit me in the nursing home, who receives any unclaimed governmental benefits due to my estate, etc. For a couple that is legally prohibited from getting married, it requires that they hire an attorney to ensure that they have the necessary legal documentation to ensure that their wishes are carried out. This is not something that you and I are required to do, and in my opinion constitutes unequal treatment.
There is nothing discriminatory about continuing to have laws revolving around couples. The problem comes when we try to dictate who those couples can be.
i've given power of attorney and willed my estate to a non-family member. it wasn't hard at all. you mentioned the laws; we're re-writing the laws; remember? to make the benefits equal to all. this includes polyigamists. if we're re-writing the laws and changing family values it's time to allow all lifestyles. it is discrimination. there was a tv show about 2 men and a woman living as a "couple". one of those reality things. it's becoming more and more accepted.
the concept of marriage goes back pretty much forever. it has been a virtual societal capstone for the religious as well as the non religious throughout world history. if you don't understand its significance and importance, then i encourage you, as i have someone else, to never get married if you havn't already.
good point; but lots of non-religious people get married.
i've given power of attorney and willed my estate to a non-family member. it wasn't hard at all. you mentioned the laws; we're re-writing the laws; remember? to make the benefits equal to all. this includes polyigamists. if we're re-writing the laws and changing family values it's time to allow all lifestyles. it is discrimination. there was a tv show about 2 men and a woman living as a "couple". one of those reality things. it's becoming more and more accepted.
Oh, I give up. If you can't see the difference between changing all of the current laws and other contractual arrangements that are set up on the assumption of a two-person couple, and reorchestrating everything to account for partenerships between an unlimited number of people, than I don't really have anything to say to you beyond "figure it out!"
You may have handled your estate to your satisfaction. All I can say is that if you have done it on your own, without consulting an attorney who specializes in probate law in your state, I hope that your estate is very simple, or you are almost certainly leaving a headache for your inheritors.
The point I was trying to make, however, is that most people want their entire estate to go to their spouse, and if they predecease their spouse, they want it to go in equal shares to their children. This is what happens automatically, at least in Ohio, if you die without a will. That means that couples who are allowed to marry need to nothing to have their wishes carried out, whereas couples who are prohibited by law from marrying must incur an additional expense if they want to ensure that their documents are binding and enforceable. This is discriminatory practice.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
the concept of marriage goes back pretty much forever. it has been a virtual societal capstone for the religious as well as the non religious throughout world history. if you don't understand its significance and importance, then i encourage you, as i have someone else, to never get married if you havn't already.
Thank you for your concern, but I am getting married in a couple of months. And while I don't buy into the religious aspect of it, I totally understand the life-long commitment that I am making to the woman that I love unconditionally. My soon to be married state has actually made me more of a supporter of gay marriage, because not only the fact that two gay people getting married will not affect or lessen the quality of my marriage whatsoever, but I can't imagine being this much in love with someone, and not be able legally to make that commitment and promise to share the rest of my life them.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Thank you for your concern, but I am getting married in a couple of months. And while I don't buy into the religious aspect of it, I totally understand the life-long commitment that I am making to the woman that I love unconditionally. My soon to be married state has actually made me more of a supporter of gay marriage, because not only the fact that two gay people getting married will not affect or lessen the quality of my marriage whatsoever, but I can't imagine being this much in love with someone, and not be able legally to make that commitment and promise to share the rest of my life them.
This is the nicest post I've seen here in a long time.
I wish you and your lucky bride a lifetime of happiness
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Gay people are quite capable of producing children naturally, and many of them do. They just don't enjoy the baby-making process as much as we do.
natural is sexual intercourse between a man and a woman followed by conception. anything else is not natural. im not saying that they shouldn't be able to do these things. hey, it's their business and i am no one to tell them what is right or wrong. but it isn't natural.
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
natural is sexual intercourse between a man and a woman followed by conception. anything else is not natural. im not saying that they shouldn't be able to do these things. hey, it's their business and i am no one to tell them what is right or wrong. but it isn't natural.
I personally know gay couples who have conceived children naturally, i.e. intercourse between a man and a woman. It happens.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
natural is sexual intercourse between a man and a woman followed by conception. anything else is not natural. im not saying that they shouldn't be able to do these things. hey, it's their business and i am no one to tell them what is right or wrong. but it isn't natural.
So if heteros have intercourse but don't conceive they've engaged in an unnatural act?
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Since when has religion been a source of guidelines for what is "natural"? Abstinence for priests and nuns? Natural? Fasting periods? I don't think that's very natural. Having to take time out of your day to "worship"? How natural is that? The church, on the contrary, preaches the unnatural. In the case of J. Christ, we're talking about the supernatural.
you gotta be shitting me,... i hope you are being a smartalic.
Actually, I'm trying to figure out your definition. I know religious people who think the only reason for intercourse is procreation and didn't know if you were one of them.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
ok, please explain. im thinking strikingly outlandish things here,...
They have sex with someone they're not particularly attracted to because they want children. Many people have sex for much stranger reasons, it's far from the most outlandish thing I've heard of.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Since when has religion been a source of guidelines for what is "natural"? Abstinence for priests and nuns? Natural? Fasting periods? I don't think that's very natural. Having to take time out of your day to "worship"? How natural is that? The church, on the contrary, preaches the unnatural. In the case of J. Christ, we're talking about the supernatural.
was that directed towards me?
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
Actually, I'm trying to figure out your definition. I know religious people who think the only reason for intercourse is procreation and didn't know if you were one of them.
ok, well,...
what i meant was that anything besides intercourse and conception is unnatural according to basic laws of nature. (if the idea is to have children) animals mate and make babies. they don't in vitro. regardless of a belief in religion,... where in religion it is said to be wrong,... or say evolution, it isn't natural. if we came from monkeys, we fuck like monkeys. male and female mate. if female monkey and female monkey licky licky,... no babies. just because we have the technology, the freedom, and the free will to make that decision doesn't mean it is natural. by no means am i trying to say it is wrong. im nobody to tell someone else how to make decisions. it just isn't natural, in my opinion. i am open to everyone else's opinion.
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
I personally know gay couples who have conceived children naturally, i.e. intercourse between a man and a woman. It happens.
so the gay couple introduces an outside partner (a male) to fertilize one of the women. then the women claim the child as their own although someone else is naturally the father. how is that natural, if indeed i assumed correctly the way that just happened? i am trying not to be rude,... please understand that,...
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
so the gay couple introduces an outside partner (a male) to fertilize one of the women. then the women claim the child as their own although someone else is naturally the father. how is that natural, if indeed i assumed correctly the way that just happened? i am trying not to be rude,... please understand that,...
I know one lesbian couple who are the parents of the daughter of one of them from her marriage before she was "out of the closet." I also know a gay man who had sex with a lesbian woman for the sole purpose of producing a child. He and the lesbian woman share legal custody, and they've drawn up some fairly complex legal documents regarding custody should both of them die before the child (now 15) becomes an adult. In case anyone is interested, I've met this kid, and he's wonderful, very intelligent and personable, loves all four of his parents and appears to be enjoying a wonderful life. For all that people worry about the kids of gay couples, he's got a much better life than I had at that age, and I had it better than a lot of people I know.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Since when has religion been a source of guidelines for what is "natural"? Abstinence for priests and nuns? Natural? Fasting periods? I don't think that's very natural. Having to take time out of your day to "worship"? How natural is that? The church, on the contrary, preaches the unnatural. In the case of J. Christ, we're talking about the supernatural.
You talk as though it is only through the lens of religion that homosexuality is seen as unnatural. Elementary biology and basic human physiology demonstrate that it is. Ths slightest of glances at the human body and how it works makes it quite obvious, regardless of where you are with spiritual faith, that we were designed/evolved for heterosexuality. It is what God or Nature (whichever) intended.
Understand i am not talking about whether or not homosexuality is unacceptable, undesirable, or unethical. i'm not passing any judgements on the practice other than to say that is, quite obviously, unnatural.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
You talk as though it is only through the lens of religion that homosexuality is seen as unnatural. Elementary biology and basic human physiology demonstrate that it is. Ths slightest of glances at the human body and how it works makes it quite obvious, regardless of where you are with spiritual faith, that we were designed/evolved for heterosexuality. It is what God or Nature (whichever) intended.
Understand i am not talking about whether or not homosexuality is unacceptable, undesirable, or unethical. i'm not passing any judgements on the practice other than to say that is, quite obviously, unnatural.
you are much better at clarifying that than i was. that is what i had meant to said.
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
I know one lesbian couple who are the parents of the daughter of one of them from her marriage before she was "out of the closet." I also know a gay man who had sex with a lesbian woman for the sole purpose of producing a child. He and the lesbian woman share legal custody, and they've drawn up some fairly complex legal documents regarding custody should both of them die before the child (now 15) becomes an adult. .
That's great, but, all of your examples show a child being produced through the sexual union of a man and a woman. heterosexuality. Two men or two women cannot naturally produce a child.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Comments
I've heard rumors that the bible was actually written by women. Maybe they decided to make homosexuality a sin because they were tired of all the "cute" guys turning out to be gay?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
please, if you havn't already, do not get married... ever.
the concept of marriage goes back pretty much forever. it has been a virtual societal capstone for the religious as well as the non religious throughout world history. if you don't understand its significance and importance, then i encourage you, as i have someone else, to never get married if you havn't already.
i've given power of attorney and willed my estate to a non-family member. it wasn't hard at all. you mentioned the laws; we're re-writing the laws; remember? to make the benefits equal to all. this includes polyigamists. if we're re-writing the laws and changing family values it's time to allow all lifestyles. it is discrimination. there was a tv show about 2 men and a woman living as a "couple". one of those reality things. it's becoming more and more accepted.
how many of you support the adopting part?
~Ron Burgundy
good point; but lots of non-religious people get married.
You may have handled your estate to your satisfaction. All I can say is that if you have done it on your own, without consulting an attorney who specializes in probate law in your state, I hope that your estate is very simple, or you are almost certainly leaving a headache for your inheritors.
The point I was trying to make, however, is that most people want their entire estate to go to their spouse, and if they predecease their spouse, they want it to go in equal shares to their children. This is what happens automatically, at least in Ohio, if you die without a will. That means that couples who are allowed to marry need to nothing to have their wishes carried out, whereas couples who are prohibited by law from marrying must incur an additional expense if they want to ensure that their documents are binding and enforceable. This is discriminatory practice.
That was one of the main points in my post. Read it again
i understand. i was agreeing with you. the "but" in there was a mistake.
Not in my world.
Thank you for your concern, but I am getting married in a couple of months. And while I don't buy into the religious aspect of it, I totally understand the life-long commitment that I am making to the woman that I love unconditionally. My soon to be married state has actually made me more of a supporter of gay marriage, because not only the fact that two gay people getting married will not affect or lessen the quality of my marriage whatsoever, but I can't imagine being this much in love with someone, and not be able legally to make that commitment and promise to share the rest of my life them.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I wish you and your lucky bride a lifetime of happiness
natural is sexual intercourse between a man and a woman followed by conception. anything else is not natural. im not saying that they shouldn't be able to do these things. hey, it's their business and i am no one to tell them what is right or wrong. but it isn't natural.
~Ron Burgundy
So if heteros have intercourse but don't conceive they've engaged in an unnatural act?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
ok, please explain. im thinking strikingly outlandish things here,...
~Ron Burgundy
you gotta be shitting me,... i hope you are being a smartalic.
~Ron Burgundy
Actually, I'm trying to figure out your definition. I know religious people who think the only reason for intercourse is procreation and didn't know if you were one of them.
was that directed towards me?
~Ron Burgundy
Pretty silly, huh? Well, that's catholicism for you.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
ok, well,...
what i meant was that anything besides intercourse and conception is unnatural according to basic laws of nature. (if the idea is to have children) animals mate and make babies. they don't in vitro. regardless of a belief in religion,... where in religion it is said to be wrong,... or say evolution, it isn't natural. if we came from monkeys, we fuck like monkeys. male and female mate. if female monkey and female monkey licky licky,... no babies. just because we have the technology, the freedom, and the free will to make that decision doesn't mean it is natural. by no means am i trying to say it is wrong. im nobody to tell someone else how to make decisions. it just isn't natural, in my opinion. i am open to everyone else's opinion.
~Ron Burgundy
so the gay couple introduces an outside partner (a male) to fertilize one of the women. then the women claim the child as their own although someone else is naturally the father. how is that natural, if indeed i assumed correctly the way that just happened? i am trying not to be rude,... please understand that,...
~Ron Burgundy
You talk as though it is only through the lens of religion that homosexuality is seen as unnatural. Elementary biology and basic human physiology demonstrate that it is. Ths slightest of glances at the human body and how it works makes it quite obvious, regardless of where you are with spiritual faith, that we were designed/evolved for heterosexuality. It is what God or Nature (whichever) intended.
Understand i am not talking about whether or not homosexuality is unacceptable, undesirable, or unethical. i'm not passing any judgements on the practice other than to say that is, quite obviously, unnatural.
you are much better at clarifying that than i was. that is what i had meant to said.
~Ron Burgundy
That's great, but, all of your examples show a child being produced through the sexual union of a man and a woman. heterosexuality. Two men or two women cannot naturally produce a child.