fire melts steel. 9/11 conspiracy theorists?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

MakingWaves wrote:

I was hoping someone would post this but i love how quickly the conspiracy theorists changed the subject. Freaking hilarious.

you missed it...it was tossed in the shitter pretty quick.

Staceb10

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

And surely you do realize that I can flip that around and apply it directly to the 'official theory' guys and the tons of unanswered questions we pose to them, which hold the same amount of common sense as yours, and remain unanswered. You guys don't have the market cornered on listening, truth, or common sense by far...no one does. It's best to just realize you can't force anyone to believe what you want them to or see it the way you're seeing. All you can hope for is level headed discussion. There's no need to get so angry or frustrated when some choose to see things differently.

I'm not angry or frustrated. I'm sure that there are questions that remain unanswered. I never said "we" had a the market cornered on listening, truth, etc..but when you read the posts such as Roland's and comments about purple skies and being blinded you realize that any rational discussion isn't possible. I don't want to force anyone to believe what I want or see it my way. You say don't get angry or frustrated when others choose to see things differently but oddly enough its usually (or at least in my opinion) the far-lefters here that behave that way. I don't care if you think santa claus blew up the WTC. Just don't think I'm "blind" or see purple skies or whatever because I don't think that our government did it.

Staceb10

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

What do the people on the planes have to do with anything? How bout the people on both sides getting mowed down in Iraq. Life is so precious so it's impossible? Really that is just incredibly naive.

However I believe you exemplify the bulk of the American mindset. When something, or someone, doesn't tell me exactly what I want to hear I dismiss it (and them) and just stop thinking about it altogether. I call it purple sky painting...little pink houses for you and me syndrome.

A sad chain of events right there.

Huh?What is naive? oh wait..I get it. You think they died you just think our government murdered them!!.. lmao okay. I was referring to the people that say the plane at the pentagon wasn't a plane..wonder what happened to the people on that flight and what kind of cover-up would have had to occur to fake a passenger list and flight plan. But anyhoo, your theory is interesting for lack of a better word.

I didn't say I stop thinking about anything. I just don't discuss it with people on this message board, like you for example, that think they KNOW what happened and completely dismiss anyone else's discussions because they don't agree.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Staceb10 wrote:

Huh?What is naive? oh wait..I get it. You think they died you just think our government murdered them!!.. lmao okay. I was referring to the people that say the plane at the pentagon wasn't a plane..wonder what happened to the people on that flight and what kind of cover-up would have had to occur to fake a passenger list and flight plan. But anyhoo, your theory is interesting for lack of a better word.

I didn't say I stop thinking about anything. I just don't discuss it with people on this message board, like you for example, that think they KNOW what happened and completely dismiss anyone else's discussions because they don't agree.

You were referring to the Pentagon? the topic was on the WTC. I don't remember seeing anything on the pentagon in this thread up until just now.

I don't know anything...either does the official report either, as they actually state it themselves...all the evidence is being held up, or is has been destroyed. There's also a pretty huge guilty by association issue going on btw.

There's a LOT of problems in what were being told from a lot of different angles. So when someone says "no way man it's all legit...you're crazy" I laugh at them frankly because they are being incredibly foolish. Look around do you notice anything unusual going on these days? Anything seem out of place? The rest of the world certainly does.

Why is it that a lot of Americans don't? I'm just talking about the ones that actually follow or even watch the news, or have the time to care or personally read about it. That's just a tiny slice of the population.

When you get to know a certain amount of co-related information in several different areas that paint a greater picture of understanding from an international perspective...well the casual observer may not be able to see it any other way than condescending.

There's a pretty immense learning curve in understanding how the world works internally and what people are really capable of. This type of stuff has been going on for thousands of years...it's old hat.

I can't apologize for any of it.

Ahnimus

I apologize for not reading this whole thread.

There is a massive difference between the WTC fires and a highway fire, oxygen...

The thick black smoke that plumbed out of the WTC was evidence that the fire was lacking oxygen and weak.

Others have mentioned the NIST reports. As far as I know, 6 years later, we are still waiting for the official NIST explanation of WTC7's collapse, which was supposed to be available Q1 '07.

I think the majority of 'Conspiracy Theorists' aren't making definitive claims about 9/11. Rather they are asking hard questions, that have to this day, gone unanswered.

Abookamongstthemany

Ahnimus wrote:

I think the majority of 'Conspiracy Theorists' aren't making definitive claims about 9/11. Rather they are asking hard questions, that have to this day, gone unanswered.

See, it's not that damn hard to understand.

lucylespian

69charger wrote:

It doesn't matter what initiated the collapse. That's the part you don't understand I think. The fact is that the buildings did fall and that moving masses have kinetic energy, the energy of momentum. The same energy that a moving hammer transfers to a nail.

So I ask you for the ninth time...

Where do you think the billions of Joules worth of kinetic energy from two falling 110 story office buildings went to? It has to go somewhere. Where did it go?

This is easy to answer.
It was dispersed in several forms. Most of it was spent pulvereising concrete into dust, a lot became noise, any left over became heat.
Heat is kinda the default last energy form that pretty much all energy defaults to if it is not directed into another form.

If you don't believe me, get a hammer, and go just start hitting a piece of steel for a bit. You will get noise, and the hammer will get hot. Then pulverise a few bricks. You will get less noise, and the hammer won't get as hot.

El_Kabong

Ahnimus wrote:

I apologize for not reading this whole thread.

There is a massive difference between the WTC fires and a highway fire, oxygen...

The thick black smoke that plumbed out of the WTC was evidence that the fire was lacking oxygen and weak.

Others have mentioned the NIST reports. As far as I know, 6 years later, we are still waiting for the official NIST explanation of WTC7's collapse, which was supposed to be available Q1 '07.

I think the majority of 'Conspiracy Theorists' aren't making definitive claims about 9/11. Rather they are asking hard questions, that have to this day, gone unanswered.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html

Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation

Figure 1. Flames and debris exploded from the World Trade Center south tower immediately after the airplane’s impact. The black smoke indicates a fuel-rich fire

this is also interesting, for you onelongsong and 69joulesmeister:
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).

Ahnimus

El_Kabong wrote:

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html

Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation

Figure 1. Flames and debris exploded from the World Trade Center south tower immediately after the airplane’s impact. The black smoke indicates a fuel-rich fire

this is also interesting, for you onelongsong and 69joulesmeister:
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).

Man, I really strongly believed that 9/11 was an inside job. But I scrutinized the hell out of my belief and I'm not sure anymore. I was just pointing out that WTC7 hasn't been explained yet. I'm still skeptical to say there was no government knowledge or involvement, as I know it happens all the time. So I'm actually in the middle on this issue, I can see how it would happen either way, but I'm not certain how it happened.

El_Kabong

Ahnimus wrote:

Man, I really strongly believed that 9/11 was an inside job. But I scrutinized the hell out of my belief and I'm not sure anymore. I was just pointing out that WTC7 hasn't been explained yet. I'm still skeptical to say there was no government knowledge or involvement, as I know it happens all the time. So I'm actually in the middle on this issue, I can see how it would happen either way, but I'm not certain how it happened.

that's fine...i'm not sure where i stand, either, as i've said plenty of times i think 1 of 3 things happened:
ppl in our government and influences on them
-knew but did nothing
-helped take part in it and possibly set up al qaeda
-did it all

there's too many things like ppl in this administration who are also in pnac who were also around and likely to have been friendly w/ the isi in the 80's (the go-between for us and other countries and ppl like al qaeda)...then to see the wall street journal mention the head of the isi wired mohammed atta money shortly before 9/11...that pnac issued a report 9/00 saying they would need a new pearl harbor to get what they wanted (increased arms spending,new nukes, militarizing space, invading iraq, pushing our empire to control strategic locations around the world...)

then there's the story of the israeli messaging company that was warned a few hours before 9/11 happened...the israelis caught filming the towers burning and falling and jumping around in joy and high fiveing each other...then it turning out the moving company they worked for was owned by another israeli who fled the country forcing ppl to go to court to get their stuff out of his trucks and whatnot....

i don't see why so many get so angry about ppl just asking questions?

lucylespian

Ahnimus wrote:

Man, I really strongly believed that 9/11 was an inside job. But I scrutinized the hell out of my belief and I'm not sure anymore. I was just pointing out that WTC7 hasn't been explained yet. I'm still skeptical to say there was no government knowledge or involvement, as I know it happens all the time. So I'm actually in the middle on this issue, I can see how it would happen either way, but I'm not certain how it happened.

Ahnimus, you are being a paranoid fuckwit. WTC happened cos OBL read "Executive Orders" and the one taht preceded it by Tom Clancy and caught the idea that the US is not invunerable Then he brainwashed a few seriously deranged idiots into hijacking the planes. The passengers and crew did not fight becasue that is what we had been trained to do, don't fight, co-operate, and wait for the authorities to sort it out.
Big plane fly into big building and watch it collapse.
I didn't believe it at first either, cis I have seen demolition of steel reinforced buildings and it's not easy.


BUT IT HAPPENED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH !!!!!!!!!

Stop smoking so much weed and accept that the government tends to cover shit up out of habit, cos so many public servants are incompetent twats, not cos there is a freaking conspiracy.
Shit, I would be glad to have a government competent enough to organise a decent conspiracy !!!!!!!!!

Staceb10

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

You were referring to the Pentagon? the topic was on the WTC. I don't remember seeing anything on the pentagon in this thread up until just now.

I was referring to the conspiracies about 9/11 in general.

Why is it that a lot of Americans don't? I'm just talking about the ones that actually follow or even watch the news, or have the time to care or personally read about it. That's just a tiny slice of the population.

I think more people think about things than everyone realizes. Just because they aren't on a message board questioning every time Bush burps that doesn't mean they tow the line so to speak.

Staceb10

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

See, it's not that damn hard to understand.

Who doesn't understand? I understand that you and kabong and some others have question that you feel are unanswered. That's fine. I also understand that there are others who think their "theories' are correct just because they don't have their questions answered. There is a difference.

spiral out

El_Kabong wrote:

i don't see why so many get so angry about ppl just asking questions?

I don't get it either.

spiral out

double post

Austicman

For the record the melting of steel has a technical term, it's called smellting.

this battle of left and right is insane. So we either agree with what Rosie O'Donnell say's or Sean Hannity's the man.

Fuck me is there no centered politicians left????????

Abookamongstthemany

Staceb10 wrote:

Who doesn't understand? I understand that you and kabong and some others have question that you feel are unanswered. That's fine. I also understand that there are others who think their "theories' are correct just because they don't have their questions answered. There is a difference.

What's hard for some to understand is that they think we're all trying to bring the 'Evil Bush Empire' down by simply discussing this topic.

onelongsong

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

See, it's not that damn hard to understand.

all governments keep secrets for security reasons. the same reasons you don't post your credit card number; pin; social security number; etc.
if anyone really felt that the government was attacking its own people; they'd be gathering up the arms and ammo. this senario is why we have the second amendment.
but listen to yourselves. the government plotted with bin laden to have some of his guys hijack a few planes; run them into buildings; then we do everything in our power to kill bin laden and his entire organization. does anyone see the stupidity in this?

Abookamongstthemany

onelongsong wrote:

all governments keep secrets for security reasons. the same reasons you don't post your credit card number; pin; social security number; etc.
if anyone really felt that the government was attacking its own people; they'd be gathering up the arms and ammo. this senario is why we have the second amendment.
but listen to yourselves. the government plotted with bin laden to have some of his guys hijack a few planes; run them into buildings; then we do everything in our power to kill bin laden and his entire organization. does anyone see the stupidity in this?

If you go out of your way to make something come across so overly simplistic of course it will sound stupid.

chopitdown

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

If you go out of your way to make something come across so overly simplistic of course it will sound stupid.

you should hear how it sounds when it's overly complicated