Where do you think the billions of Joules worth of kinetic energy from two falling 110 story office buildings went to? It has to go somewhere. Where did it go?
I've asked one of you close to seven times now and still no answer. This should be easy unless it doesn't 'jive' with your beliefs.
well you'd have to believe the NIST report collapse theory first to make your thermal kinetic meltdown theory work....otherwise it's broken and of no use in explaining anything. Didn't I actually clarify this to you a few times already?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
well you'd have to believe the NIST report collapse theory first to make your thermal kinetic meltdown theory work....otherwise it's broken and of no use in explaining anything. Didn't I actually clarify this to you a few times already?
You deny that the buildings fell down?
I think we can agree that the buidlings fell down right?
Well since they did fall down then my question still stands...
Where do you think the billions of Joules worth of kinetic energy from two falling 110 story office buildings went to? It has to go somewhere. Where did it go?
I think we can agree that the buidlings fell down right?
Well since they did fall down then my question still stands...
Where do you think the billions of Joules worth of kinetic energy from two falling 110 story office buildings went to? It has to go somewhere. Where did it go?
No...it's actually it's about how they fell down. In order for your thing to work NIST must be right or it's some kind of assisted collapse. But they say they have no idea how they fell. So where does that leave you?
you keep racing to your own conclusion without realizing how you got there....
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
No...it's actually it's about how they fell down. In order for your thing to work NIST must be right or it's some kind of assisted collapse. But they say they have no idea how they fell. So where does that leave you?
you keep racing to your own conclusion without realizing how you got there....
It doesn't matter what initiated the collapse. That's the part you don't understand I think. The fact is that the buildings did fall and that moving masses have kinetic energy, the energy of momentum. The same energy that a moving hammer transfers to a nail.
So I ask you for the ninth time...
Where do you think the billions of Joules worth of kinetic energy from two falling 110 story office buildings went to? It has to go somewhere. Where did it go?
It doesn't matter what initiated the collapse. That's the part you don't understand I think. The fact is that the buildings did fall and that moving masses have kinetic energy, the energy of momentum. The same energy that a moving hammer transfers to a nail.
So I ask you for the ninth time...
Where do you think the billions of Joules worth of kinetic energy from two falling 110 story office buildings went to? It has to go somewhere. Where did it go?
It's kind of implied your question still stands in your mind. It's probably just wasted space on the server at this point. If the building fell slowly then what?
What exactly is what you are getting at proving? Demolition would have the exact same effect. Actually a greater kinetic effect. What is it that you're still insisting on working out? First you have to believe it wasn't demolition and that NIST is accurate which they themselves admit to not being.
So for example if say 100% of the energy went into the structure as heat and melted the columns according to you...what answer have you provided to yourself or others in clarifying anything? Demolition would be the same kinetic scenario.
Are you just tying to tell everyone you know what kinetic energy is?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
It's kind of implied your question still stands in your mind. It's probably just wasted space on the server at this point. If the building fell slowly then what?
What exactly is what you are getting at proving? Demolition would have the exact same effect. Actually a greater kinetic effect. What is it that you're still insisting on working out? First you have to believe it wasn't demolition and that NIST is accurate which they themselves admit to not being.
So for example if say 100% of the energy went into the structure as heat and melted the columns according to you...what answer have you provided to yourself or others in clarifying anything? Demolition would be the same kinetic scenario.
Are you just tying to tell everyone you know what kinetic energy is?
You don't even remember the context of the original question do you?
I'm saying that the "pools of molten steel" that you are talking about have thier origins in the massive amount (on the order of a small nuclear device) of energy (a large portion of that being heat) transferred to the rubble pile by the falling buildings. Add to that 28 million tons of flammable material contained in the towers and you have more than enough available energy to cause large amounts of metal to melt and explains, quite well, your mysterious "pools of molten steel".
It means that thermate or thermite did not have to be involved to reach very high temperatures.
You don't even remember the context of the original question do you?
I'm saying that the "pools of molten steel" that you are talking about have thier origins in the massive amount (on the order of a small nuclear device) of energy (a large portion of that being heat) transferred to the rubble pile by the falling buildings. Add to that 28 million tons of flammable material contained in the towers and you have more than enough available energy to cause large amounts of metal to melt and explains, quite well, your mysterious "pools of molten steel".
It means that thermate or thermite did not have to be involved to reach very high temperatures.
I totally remember the context. I'm just saying, if valid, it proves nothing either way. So I'm not sure why it was worth repeating over and over... Is that part of the official story? If it was brought forth, and feasible, it would have evaluated and included. What is the source?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I am guessing that teh max burn temp is achieved in an oxygen enriched environment.
I think people are missing the point that the bolts failed rather than melted.
In a structure like a bridge, the bolts are holding stuff together and are subject to shearing forces. The metal only needs to get softer for the shear forces to exceed their strength, then the structure will fail. The bolts do not need to melt to a liquid state for this to occur, they only need to get softer.
Similarly in teh WTC, teh steel does not need to melt for it to be weakened beyond a point where it will fail to endure teh stresses being placed on it.
you make good points, but im trying to get onelongsong to prove that he can make steel melt with jet fuel. that is his claim. i also wanted him to prove to me how the conditions he sets would have been those met in the towers.
neither i nor nist makes the claim that steel was melted. i have no solid proof. nist's theory doesn't revolve around molten steel anyhow. it revolves around weakened steel, just like what you are basically saying.
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
you make good points, but im trying to get onelongsong to prove that he can make steel melt with jet fuel. that is his claim. i also wanted him to prove to me how the conditions he sets would have been those met in the towers.
neither i nor nist makes the claim that steel was melted. i have no solid proof. nist's theory doesn't revolve around molten steel anyhow. it revolves around weakened steel, just like what you are basically saying.
briefly; you take a long pipe and drill a hole about 12 inches from the bottom. on the inside you put an elbow with a cap that has been drilled with small holes. on the outside you put a small shut-off and connect it to a hose attached to your supply of jet fuel. with the pipe upright; open the valve slightly until you have fuel in the pipe and light it. as the air heats it rises and draws more air from the bottom. as the flame gets hotter; open the fuel more and more. the hotter the air the faster it rises; thus draws more air in and can therefore burn more fuel. this is basically how a jet engine works. it will reach a point where the pipe will melt. you've essentially made a cutting torch using the design of a simple jet engine.
el kabong posted a youtube video showing melted steel. this is explained by it's location in respect to the column of air rushing up the center stairwell. as i stated earlier; the heat alone is enough to weaken the beams past it's shear point and rivits and bolts will also fail under heat. the building was wrapped in mesh and when the planes opened the top it created a chimney. the mesh; insulation; and fireproofing made an excellant chimney/blast furnace. all these factors had to be in place for this to happen.
never in history has fire melted steel, huh? 9/11 black helicopter tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists need to rethink that...and this was just one tanker of regular gasoline, not a huge airliner filled with jet fuel inpacting at 650 mph....
A stretch of highway near the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge collapsed Sunday after a gasoline tanker crashed and burst into flames, leaving one of the nation's busiest spans in a state of near paralysis.
The tanker carrying 8,600 gallons of gasoline ignited around 3:45 a.m. after crashing into a pylon on the interchange, which connects westbound lanes of Interstate 80 to southbound I-880, on the edge of downtown Oakland about half a mile from the Bay Bridge's toll plaza
Witnesses reported flames rising up to 200 feet into the air. Heat exceeded 2,750 degrees and caused the steel beams holding up the interchange from eastbound I-80 to eastbound Interstate 580 above to buckle and bolts holding the structure together to melt, leading to the collapse, California Department of Transportation director Will Kempton said.
I was hoping someone would post this but i love how quickly the conspiracy theorists changed the subject. Freaking hilarious.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
I was hoping someone would post this but i love how quickly the conspiracy theorists changed the subject. Freaking hilarious.
you missed it...it was tossed in the shitter pretty quick.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
And surely you do realize that I can flip that around and apply it directly to the 'official theory' guys and the tons of unanswered questions we pose to them, which hold the same amount of common sense as yours, and remain unanswered. You guys don't have the market cornered on listening, truth, or common sense by far...no one does. It's best to just realize you can't force anyone to believe what you want them to or see it the way you're seeing. All you can hope for is level headed discussion. There's no need to get so angry or frustrated when some choose to see things differently.
I'm not angry or frustrated. I'm sure that there are questions that remain unanswered. I never said "we" had a the market cornered on listening, truth, etc..but when you read the posts such as Roland's and comments about purple skies and being blinded you realize that any rational discussion isn't possible. I don't want to force anyone to believe what I want or see it my way. You say don't get angry or frustrated when others choose to see things differently but oddly enough its usually (or at least in my opinion) the far-lefters here that behave that way. I don't care if you think santa claus blew up the WTC. Just don't think I'm "blind" or see purple skies or whatever because I don't think that our government did it.
What do the people on the planes have to do with anything? How bout the people on both sides getting mowed down in Iraq. Life is so precious so it's impossible? Really that is just incredibly naive.
However I believe you exemplify the bulk of the American mindset. When something, or someone, doesn't tell me exactly what I want to hear I dismiss it (and them) and just stop thinking about it altogether. I call it purple sky painting...little pink houses for you and me syndrome.
A sad chain of events right there.
Huh?What is naive? oh wait..I get it. You think they died you just think our government murdered them!!.. lmao okay. I was referring to the people that say the plane at the pentagon wasn't a plane..wonder what happened to the people on that flight and what kind of cover-up would have had to occur to fake a passenger list and flight plan. But anyhoo, your theory is interesting for lack of a better word.
I didn't say I stop thinking about anything. I just don't discuss it with people on this message board, like you for example, that think they KNOW what happened and completely dismiss anyone else's discussions because they don't agree.
Huh?What is naive? oh wait..I get it. You think they died you just think our government murdered them!!.. lmao okay. I was referring to the people that say the plane at the pentagon wasn't a plane..wonder what happened to the people on that flight and what kind of cover-up would have had to occur to fake a passenger list and flight plan. But anyhoo, your theory is interesting for lack of a better word.
I didn't say I stop thinking about anything. I just don't discuss it with people on this message board, like you for example, that think they KNOW what happened and completely dismiss anyone else's discussions because they don't agree.
You were referring to the Pentagon? the topic was on the WTC. I don't remember seeing anything on the pentagon in this thread up until just now.
I don't know anything...either does the official report either, as they actually state it themselves...all the evidence is being held up, or is has been destroyed. There's also a pretty huge guilty by association issue going on btw.
There's a LOT of problems in what were being told from a lot of different angles. So when someone says "no way man it's all legit...you're crazy" I laugh at them frankly because they are being incredibly foolish. Look around do you notice anything unusual going on these days? Anything seem out of place? The rest of the world certainly does.
Why is it that a lot of Americans don't? I'm just talking about the ones that actually follow or even watch the news, or have the time to care or personally read about it. That's just a tiny slice of the population.
When you get to know a certain amount of co-related information in several different areas that paint a greater picture of understanding from an international perspective...well the casual observer may not be able to see it any other way than condescending.
There's a pretty immense learning curve in understanding how the world works internally and what people are really capable of. This type of stuff has been going on for thousands of years...it's old hat.
I can't apologize for any of it.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
There is a massive difference between the WTC fires and a highway fire, oxygen...
The thick black smoke that plumbed out of the WTC was evidence that the fire was lacking oxygen and weak.
Others have mentioned the NIST reports. As far as I know, 6 years later, we are still waiting for the official NIST explanation of WTC7's collapse, which was supposed to be available Q1 '07.
I think the majority of 'Conspiracy Theorists' aren't making definitive claims about 9/11. Rather they are asking hard questions, that have to this day, gone unanswered.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I think the majority of 'Conspiracy Theorists' aren't making definitive claims about 9/11. Rather they are asking hard questions, that have to this day, gone unanswered.
See, it's not that damn hard to understand.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
It doesn't matter what initiated the collapse. That's the part you don't understand I think. The fact is that the buildings did fall and that moving masses have kinetic energy, the energy of momentum. The same energy that a moving hammer transfers to a nail.
So I ask you for the ninth time...
Where do you think the billions of Joules worth of kinetic energy from two falling 110 story office buildings went to? It has to go somewhere. Where did it go?
This is easy to answer.
It was dispersed in several forms. Most of it was spent pulvereising concrete into dust, a lot became noise, any left over became heat.
Heat is kinda the default last energy form that pretty much all energy defaults to if it is not directed into another form.
If you don't believe me, get a hammer, and go just start hitting a piece of steel for a bit. You will get noise, and the hammer will get hot. Then pulverise a few bricks. You will get less noise, and the hammer won't get as hot.
There is a massive difference between the WTC fires and a highway fire, oxygen...
The thick black smoke that plumbed out of the WTC was evidence that the fire was lacking oxygen and weak.
Others have mentioned the NIST reports. As far as I know, 6 years later, we are still waiting for the official NIST explanation of WTC7's collapse, which was supposed to be available Q1 '07.
I think the majority of 'Conspiracy Theorists' aren't making definitive claims about 9/11. Rather they are asking hard questions, that have to this day, gone unanswered.
Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation
Figure 1. Flames and debris exploded from the World Trade Center south tower immediately after the airplane’s impact. The black smoke indicates a fuel-rich fire
this is also interesting, for you onelongsong and 69joulesmeister: http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation
Figure 1. Flames and debris exploded from the World Trade Center south tower immediately after the airplane’s impact. The black smoke indicates a fuel-rich fire
this is also interesting, for you onelongsong and 69joulesmeister: http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).
Man, I really strongly believed that 9/11 was an inside job. But I scrutinized the hell out of my belief and I'm not sure anymore. I was just pointing out that WTC7 hasn't been explained yet. I'm still skeptical to say there was no government knowledge or involvement, as I know it happens all the time. So I'm actually in the middle on this issue, I can see how it would happen either way, but I'm not certain how it happened.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Man, I really strongly believed that 9/11 was an inside job. But I scrutinized the hell out of my belief and I'm not sure anymore. I was just pointing out that WTC7 hasn't been explained yet. I'm still skeptical to say there was no government knowledge or involvement, as I know it happens all the time. So I'm actually in the middle on this issue, I can see how it would happen either way, but I'm not certain how it happened.
that's fine...i'm not sure where i stand, either, as i've said plenty of times i think 1 of 3 things happened:
ppl in our government and influences on them
-knew but did nothing
-helped take part in it and possibly set up al qaeda
-did it all
there's too many things like ppl in this administration who are also in pnac who were also around and likely to have been friendly w/ the isi in the 80's (the go-between for us and other countries and ppl like al qaeda)...then to see the wall street journal mention the head of the isi wired mohammed atta money shortly before 9/11...that pnac issued a report 9/00 saying they would need a new pearl harbor to get what they wanted (increased arms spending,new nukes, militarizing space, invading iraq, pushing our empire to control strategic locations around the world...)
then there's the story of the israeli messaging company that was warned a few hours before 9/11 happened...the israelis caught filming the towers burning and falling and jumping around in joy and high fiveing each other...then it turning out the moving company they worked for was owned by another israeli who fled the country forcing ppl to go to court to get their stuff out of his trucks and whatnot....
i don't see why so many get so angry about ppl just asking questions?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Man, I really strongly believed that 9/11 was an inside job. But I scrutinized the hell out of my belief and I'm not sure anymore. I was just pointing out that WTC7 hasn't been explained yet. I'm still skeptical to say there was no government knowledge or involvement, as I know it happens all the time. So I'm actually in the middle on this issue, I can see how it would happen either way, but I'm not certain how it happened.
Ahnimus, you are being a paranoid fuckwit. WTC happened cos OBL read "Executive Orders" and the one taht preceded it by Tom Clancy and caught the idea that the US is not invunerable Then he brainwashed a few seriously deranged idiots into hijacking the planes. The passengers and crew did not fight becasue that is what we had been trained to do, don't fight, co-operate, and wait for the authorities to sort it out.
Big plane fly into big building and watch it collapse.
I didn't believe it at first either, cis I have seen demolition of steel reinforced buildings and it's not easy.
BUT IT HAPPENED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH !!!!!!!!!
Stop smoking so much weed and accept that the government tends to cover shit up out of habit, cos so many public servants are incompetent twats, not cos there is a freaking conspiracy.
Shit, I would be glad to have a government competent enough to organise a decent conspiracy !!!!!!!!!
You were referring to the Pentagon? the topic was on the WTC. I don't remember seeing anything on the pentagon in this thread up until just now.
I was referring to the conspiracies about 9/11 in general.
Why is it that a lot of Americans don't? I'm just talking about the ones that actually follow or even watch the news, or have the time to care or personally read about it. That's just a tiny slice of the population.
I think more people think about things than everyone realizes. Just because they aren't on a message board questioning every time Bush burps that doesn't mean they tow the line so to speak.
Who doesn't understand? I understand that you and kabong and some others have question that you feel are unanswered. That's fine. I also understand that there are others who think their "theories' are correct just because they don't have their questions answered. There is a difference.
i don't see why so many get so angry about ppl just asking questions?
I don't get it either.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Who doesn't understand? I understand that you and kabong and some others have question that you feel are unanswered. That's fine. I also understand that there are others who think their "theories' are correct just because they don't have their questions answered. There is a difference.
What's hard for some to understand is that they think we're all trying to bring the 'Evil Bush Empire' down by simply discussing this topic.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
all governments keep secrets for security reasons. the same reasons you don't post your credit card number; pin; social security number; etc.
if anyone really felt that the government was attacking its own people; they'd be gathering up the arms and ammo. this senario is why we have the second amendment.
but listen to yourselves. the government plotted with bin laden to have some of his guys hijack a few planes; run them into buildings; then we do everything in our power to kill bin laden and his entire organization. does anyone see the stupidity in this?
all governments keep secrets for security reasons. the same reasons you don't post your credit card number; pin; social security number; etc.
if anyone really felt that the government was attacking its own people; they'd be gathering up the arms and ammo. this senario is why we have the second amendment.
but listen to yourselves. the government plotted with bin laden to have some of his guys hijack a few planes; run them into buildings; then we do everything in our power to kill bin laden and his entire organization. does anyone see the stupidity in this?
If you go out of your way to make something come across so overly simplistic of course it will sound stupid.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Comments
well you'd have to believe the NIST report collapse theory first to make your thermal kinetic meltdown theory work....otherwise it's broken and of no use in explaining anything. Didn't I actually clarify this to you a few times already?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
You deny that the buildings fell down?
I think we can agree that the buidlings fell down right?
Well since they did fall down then my question still stands...
Where do you think the billions of Joules worth of kinetic energy from two falling 110 story office buildings went to? It has to go somewhere. Where did it go?
No...it's actually it's about how they fell down. In order for your thing to work NIST must be right or it's some kind of assisted collapse. But they say they have no idea how they fell. So where does that leave you?
you keep racing to your own conclusion without realizing how you got there....
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
It doesn't matter what initiated the collapse. That's the part you don't understand I think. The fact is that the buildings did fall and that moving masses have kinetic energy, the energy of momentum. The same energy that a moving hammer transfers to a nail.
So I ask you for the ninth time...
Where do you think the billions of Joules worth of kinetic energy from two falling 110 story office buildings went to? It has to go somewhere. Where did it go?
It's kind of implied your question still stands in your mind. It's probably just wasted space on the server at this point. If the building fell slowly then what?
What exactly is what you are getting at proving? Demolition would have the exact same effect. Actually a greater kinetic effect. What is it that you're still insisting on working out? First you have to believe it wasn't demolition and that NIST is accurate which they themselves admit to not being.
So for example if say 100% of the energy went into the structure as heat and melted the columns according to you...what answer have you provided to yourself or others in clarifying anything? Demolition would be the same kinetic scenario.
Are you just tying to tell everyone you know what kinetic energy is?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
You don't even remember the context of the original question do you?
I'm saying that the "pools of molten steel" that you are talking about have thier origins in the massive amount (on the order of a small nuclear device) of energy (a large portion of that being heat) transferred to the rubble pile by the falling buildings. Add to that 28 million tons of flammable material contained in the towers and you have more than enough available energy to cause large amounts of metal to melt and explains, quite well, your mysterious "pools of molten steel".
It means that thermate or thermite did not have to be involved to reach very high temperatures.
I totally remember the context. I'm just saying, if valid, it proves nothing either way. So I'm not sure why it was worth repeating over and over... Is that part of the official story? If it was brought forth, and feasible, it would have evaluated and included. What is the source?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
you make good points, but im trying to get onelongsong to prove that he can make steel melt with jet fuel. that is his claim. i also wanted him to prove to me how the conditions he sets would have been those met in the towers.
neither i nor nist makes the claim that steel was melted. i have no solid proof. nist's theory doesn't revolve around molten steel anyhow. it revolves around weakened steel, just like what you are basically saying.
~Ron Burgundy
briefly; you take a long pipe and drill a hole about 12 inches from the bottom. on the inside you put an elbow with a cap that has been drilled with small holes. on the outside you put a small shut-off and connect it to a hose attached to your supply of jet fuel. with the pipe upright; open the valve slightly until you have fuel in the pipe and light it. as the air heats it rises and draws more air from the bottom. as the flame gets hotter; open the fuel more and more. the hotter the air the faster it rises; thus draws more air in and can therefore burn more fuel. this is basically how a jet engine works. it will reach a point where the pipe will melt. you've essentially made a cutting torch using the design of a simple jet engine.
el kabong posted a youtube video showing melted steel. this is explained by it's location in respect to the column of air rushing up the center stairwell. as i stated earlier; the heat alone is enough to weaken the beams past it's shear point and rivits and bolts will also fail under heat. the building was wrapped in mesh and when the planes opened the top it created a chimney. the mesh; insulation; and fireproofing made an excellant chimney/blast furnace. all these factors had to be in place for this to happen.
I was hoping someone would post this but i love how quickly the conspiracy theorists changed the subject. Freaking hilarious.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
you missed it...it was tossed in the shitter pretty quick.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
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I'm not angry or frustrated. I'm sure that there are questions that remain unanswered. I never said "we" had a the market cornered on listening, truth, etc..but when you read the posts such as Roland's and comments about purple skies and being blinded you realize that any rational discussion isn't possible. I don't want to force anyone to believe what I want or see it my way. You say don't get angry or frustrated when others choose to see things differently but oddly enough its usually (or at least in my opinion) the far-lefters here that behave that way. I don't care if you think santa claus blew up the WTC. Just don't think I'm "blind" or see purple skies or whatever because I don't think that our government did it.
Huh?What is naive? oh wait..I get it. You think they died you just think our government murdered them!!.. lmao okay. I was referring to the people that say the plane at the pentagon wasn't a plane..wonder what happened to the people on that flight and what kind of cover-up would have had to occur to fake a passenger list and flight plan. But anyhoo, your theory is interesting for lack of a better word.
I didn't say I stop thinking about anything. I just don't discuss it with people on this message board, like you for example, that think they KNOW what happened and completely dismiss anyone else's discussions because they don't agree.
You were referring to the Pentagon? the topic was on the WTC. I don't remember seeing anything on the pentagon in this thread up until just now.
I don't know anything...either does the official report either, as they actually state it themselves...all the evidence is being held up, or is has been destroyed. There's also a pretty huge guilty by association issue going on btw.
There's a LOT of problems in what were being told from a lot of different angles. So when someone says "no way man it's all legit...you're crazy" I laugh at them frankly because they are being incredibly foolish. Look around do you notice anything unusual going on these days? Anything seem out of place? The rest of the world certainly does.
Why is it that a lot of Americans don't? I'm just talking about the ones that actually follow or even watch the news, or have the time to care or personally read about it. That's just a tiny slice of the population.
When you get to know a certain amount of co-related information in several different areas that paint a greater picture of understanding from an international perspective...well the casual observer may not be able to see it any other way than condescending.
There's a pretty immense learning curve in understanding how the world works internally and what people are really capable of. This type of stuff has been going on for thousands of years...it's old hat.
I can't apologize for any of it.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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There is a massive difference between the WTC fires and a highway fire, oxygen...
The thick black smoke that plumbed out of the WTC was evidence that the fire was lacking oxygen and weak.
Others have mentioned the NIST reports. As far as I know, 6 years later, we are still waiting for the official NIST explanation of WTC7's collapse, which was supposed to be available Q1 '07.
I think the majority of 'Conspiracy Theorists' aren't making definitive claims about 9/11. Rather they are asking hard questions, that have to this day, gone unanswered.
See, it's not that damn hard to understand.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
This is easy to answer.
It was dispersed in several forms. Most of it was spent pulvereising concrete into dust, a lot became noise, any left over became heat.
Heat is kinda the default last energy form that pretty much all energy defaults to if it is not directed into another form.
If you don't believe me, get a hammer, and go just start hitting a piece of steel for a bit. You will get noise, and the hammer will get hot. Then pulverise a few bricks. You will get less noise, and the hammer won't get as hot.
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html
Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation
Figure 1. Flames and debris exploded from the World Trade Center south tower immediately after the airplane’s impact. The black smoke indicates a fuel-rich fire
this is also interesting, for you onelongsong and 69joulesmeister:
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Man, I really strongly believed that 9/11 was an inside job. But I scrutinized the hell out of my belief and I'm not sure anymore. I was just pointing out that WTC7 hasn't been explained yet. I'm still skeptical to say there was no government knowledge or involvement, as I know it happens all the time. So I'm actually in the middle on this issue, I can see how it would happen either way, but I'm not certain how it happened.
that's fine...i'm not sure where i stand, either, as i've said plenty of times i think 1 of 3 things happened:
ppl in our government and influences on them
-knew but did nothing
-helped take part in it and possibly set up al qaeda
-did it all
there's too many things like ppl in this administration who are also in pnac who were also around and likely to have been friendly w/ the isi in the 80's (the go-between for us and other countries and ppl like al qaeda)...then to see the wall street journal mention the head of the isi wired mohammed atta money shortly before 9/11...that pnac issued a report 9/00 saying they would need a new pearl harbor to get what they wanted (increased arms spending,new nukes, militarizing space, invading iraq, pushing our empire to control strategic locations around the world...)
then there's the story of the israeli messaging company that was warned a few hours before 9/11 happened...the israelis caught filming the towers burning and falling and jumping around in joy and high fiveing each other...then it turning out the moving company they worked for was owned by another israeli who fled the country forcing ppl to go to court to get their stuff out of his trucks and whatnot....
i don't see why so many get so angry about ppl just asking questions?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Ahnimus, you are being a paranoid fuckwit. WTC happened cos OBL read "Executive Orders" and the one taht preceded it by Tom Clancy and caught the idea that the US is not invunerable Then he brainwashed a few seriously deranged idiots into hijacking the planes. The passengers and crew did not fight becasue that is what we had been trained to do, don't fight, co-operate, and wait for the authorities to sort it out.
Big plane fly into big building and watch it collapse.
I didn't believe it at first either, cis I have seen demolition of steel reinforced buildings and it's not easy.
BUT IT HAPPENED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH !!!!!!!!!
Stop smoking so much weed and accept that the government tends to cover shit up out of habit, cos so many public servants are incompetent twats, not cos there is a freaking conspiracy.
Shit, I would be glad to have a government competent enough to organise a decent conspiracy !!!!!!!!!
I was referring to the conspiracies about 9/11 in general.
I think more people think about things than everyone realizes. Just because they aren't on a message board questioning every time Bush burps that doesn't mean they tow the line so to speak.
Who doesn't understand? I understand that you and kabong and some others have question that you feel are unanswered. That's fine. I also understand that there are others who think their "theories' are correct just because they don't have their questions answered. There is a difference.
I don't get it either.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
this battle of left and right is insane. So we either agree with what Rosie O'Donnell say's or Sean Hannity's the man.
Fuck me is there no centered politicians left????????
What's hard for some to understand is that they think we're all trying to bring the 'Evil Bush Empire' down by simply discussing this topic.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
all governments keep secrets for security reasons. the same reasons you don't post your credit card number; pin; social security number; etc.
if anyone really felt that the government was attacking its own people; they'd be gathering up the arms and ammo. this senario is why we have the second amendment.
but listen to yourselves. the government plotted with bin laden to have some of his guys hijack a few planes; run them into buildings; then we do everything in our power to kill bin laden and his entire organization. does anyone see the stupidity in this?
If you go out of your way to make something come across so overly simplistic of course it will sound stupid.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
you should hear how it sounds when it's overly complicated