I'm taking bets

musicismylife78

soulsinging wrote:

the things you listed are all passive. you can't get peace by standing around holding signs or listening to speakers. what are peace and justice organizations? you need to get involved... lobby congress, not stand on corners. run for office. pester government officials. work on legislation. there are ways to do these things.

and you need to get over iraq dude. communes and dropping out did not stop the vietnam war, and they're not going to stop the iraq war. the problem in the 60s is they thought like you... if they could just run away and smoke enough pot, the war would just end and governments would fall. they expected far too much and worked for it far too little. and then when they found out their small vision of utopia was never going to happen, they just sold out and walked right into the boardroom. it's not like that anymore. you get your head on straight, stay grounded, and you can help change things without abandoning your ideals like they did. it can be done. but it takes work. a lot of work. and there's going to be a lot of failure, pain and frustration. but you're going to see a lot more results than you will if you take the coward's way and just run from it all. you're too obsessed with iraq. it's one piece of a big puzzle and wars happen. it's just a fact of existence and it's not going to stop unless you turn your passions towards being in a position where you can make enough waves to stop them.

First, please get off my back. Fine, you dislike my politics or me as a person or poster, but please dont act snotty like this when replying to my posts. its hurtful.

Telling me my activism in the past 7 years is useless and crap is hurtful. Honestly.

I think we need people in ALL aspects of activism. All the stuff you suggested is all within the system, and thats great, we need the Bonos of the world. They can influence politicians and make headway. Thats great. But we also need people working outside the system.

Personally I admire the bonos of the world but I also admire the petitioners, the grandmas who stand on corners with signs, the local peace organization in your or my town, etc...

Activism comes in many forms. I do what I feel is right. I havent attacked you personally, and please dont attack me personally. You disagree with my beliefs and my stated mission to move to a commune, great, more power to you. But please post that crap elsewhere.

I am an idealist. I believe we can change the world. I believe we can stop the war. I believe we can stop global warming. Without belief in that, I would have to assume we are all going to die in some fiery furnace apocalypse in 10 years. I hope it doesnt come to that.

I do what I feel is right. I was a 16 year old high school freshman in 2000. I didnt and couldnt run for congress and run for office. I did what I felt was right. I helped out at my local peace and justice organization, they sponser fundraisers, protests and advocate for peace and justice. I handed out fliers to students about the military and how recruiters are shady and that kids have other options besides signing up and enlisting. At my high school we had this thing called a Certificate of Advanced mastery, and you had to show as a senior your proficiency in something. I was the first person, according to my teachers to do a CAM on activism. I got my CAM in activism.

I have educated myself, and taken classes in college and got a degree in sociology, a notoriously political major. I have voted for people I feel support my beliefs.

You want to say their are other ways to do things, fine, i agree. But dont tell me I am useless and make fun of me. We all do what we have to do.

I dont feel particularly fond of congress or politicans in general, so working inside the government like you said means little to me.

Thom Yorke praised bono because he said that if he was in bonos position he would punch bush and blair as opposed to shaking their hands. I think many people feel that way.

I dont feel I am being a good activist. I cant be a good one if I cant help myself. I cant be a good activist if I feel nauseus to read the paper and refuse to watch the news and refuse to keep up on current events. I cant be a good activist if the death toll in iraq is getting to me. I need to help myself.

Ms. Haiku

soulsinging wrote:

nothing has to happen in these pages. im saying that what goes on here has no connection to the reality happening out there. you can't get to know your next door neighbor by "practicing" on here. you need to turn this computer off and go say hi to them, every day.

Ok, so you have an action that can be tested. This doesn't need an answer, but how would people over time respond to that?

I am proposing theory for action, and asking for other theories for actions on what can work. I'm not ready, yet, to have it scraped as it's just a theory. When it's proven wrong then it's scraped, of course.

What could I do? What's my theory of action. Talk more to people near me about the news. I rarely do that. There's consistency in what works for a good discussion, and what doesn't work on here. Good as in respectful.

musicismylife78

We all do what we feel is appropriote. In my mind, getting a job right now, me getting a job, isnt doing what i feel is morally right. I am not talking about you. I am taking about me. I feel it is my moral obligation to move to a commune, because it is the right thing to do. You may disagree. But its what i have chosen.

If you want to come along, your more than welcome, but I havent invited you, so please dont come off like the insensitive jerk you really are.

jerk

musicismylife78

moving to a commune is the ultimate activist activity soulsinging. Instead of being a poster child for all the right wingers of a dirty hippie without a job, I am actually going to be doing what I speak or putting my money where my mouth is.

The commune aint some drugged out place with sex and drugs and people loafing around. Its a place of labor. You are required to work on the commune and give certain hours. You just dont work at an office, you work in rural environments and out in nature.

For me its always been about, instead of complaining why not go out and do something. Instead of saying "lets stop the war", I have been going outside and protesting since 2000.

Now, I am saying that people should move to communes. And instead of telling people to do that, I am actually putting my money where my mouth is. I am moving to 2 communes this summer.

musicismylife78

plus its laughable how you all arent able to connect here. In the days of old, you had after years and years of vietnam, drugged out soldiers coming back to the haight and berkeley, and the neighborhoods being decimated, hippies raping 5 year old girls, hippies eating neighborhood cats for food. You had people joining the SLA, Patty hearst stuck up a bank, you had the weathermen blowing up buildings, you had people going insane.

And ou want to suggest that had nothing to do with the climate in america at the time?

And now you want to suggest that people arent reacting now?

This IS how our generation protests. They bring guns to school. Its sad but true. Face facts buddy.

I am trying to stop all this. All your doing is offering superficial statements.

Taking kids video games away and taking their marilyn manson cd's away aint stopping these kids. its happening. Look away or do something.

soulsinging

Cheguevara6 wrote:

First, please get off my back. Fine, you dislike my politics or me as a person or poster, but please dont act snotty like this when replying to my posts. its hurtful.

Telling me my activism in the past 7 years is useless and crap is hurtful. Honestly.

I think we need people in ALL aspects of activism. All the stuff you suggested is all within the system, and thats great, we need the Bonos of the world. They can influence politicians and make headway. Thats great. But we also need people working outside the system.

Personally I admire the bonos of the world but I also admire the petitioners, the grandmas who stand on corners with signs, the local peace organization in your or my town, etc...

Activism comes in many forms. I do what I feel is right. I havent attacked you personally, and please dont attack me personally. You disagree with my beliefs and my stated mission to move to a commune, great, more power to you. But please post that crap elsewhere.

I am an idealist. I believe we can change the world. I believe we can stop the war. I believe we can stop global warming. Without belief in that, I would have to assume we are all going to die in some fiery furnace apocalypse in 10 years. I hope it doesnt come to that.

I do what I feel is right. I was a 16 year old high school freshman in 2000. I didnt and couldnt run for congress and run for office. I did what I felt was right. I helped out at my local peace and justice organization, they sponser fundraisers, protests and advocate for peace and justice. I handed out fliers to students about the military and how recruiters are shady and that kids have other options besides signing up and enlisting. At my high school we had this thing called a Certificate of Advanced mastery, and you had to show as a senior your proficiency in something. I was the first person, according to my teachers to do a CAM on activism. I got my CAM in activism.

I have educated myself, and taken classes in college and got a degree in sociology, a notoriously political major. I have voted for people I feel support my beliefs.

You want to say their are other ways to do things, fine, i agree. But dont tell me I am useless and make fun of me. We all do what we have to do.

I dont feel particularly fond of congress or politicans in general, so working inside the government like you said means little to me.

Thom Yorke praised bono because he said that if he was in bonos position he would punch bush and blair as opposed to shaking their hands. I think many people feel that way.

I dont feel I am being a good activist. I cant be a good one if I cant help myself. I cant be a good activist if I feel nauseus to read the paper and refuse to watch the news and refuse to keep up on current events. I cant be a good activist if the death toll in iraq is getting to me. I need to help myself.

im not saying you're useless, im saying your passion is misdirected and im sad to see it go to waste. i used to be just like you. but you can't wish away the things you don't agree with. you have to stand and fight them and that's a hell of a lot harder. there are too few people who are willing to do that.

musicismylife78

whether you think kids will rise up and start the revolution as i state it IS IRRELEVANT

The sixties were textbook. It started with kids innocently rebelling and as things got bad, the war continued, race riots, etc... it became more frantic. This isnt complex stuff soulsinging. I am a graduate of college, but I dont think one need to evene be a high school grad to understand basic stuff like that. As the sixties started it was "flowers in the hair, flowers in guns". By the end it ended in Manson killings, Altamont killings, and people going insane. Kids thinking they could stop the war by setting off bombs

In the after math of Kent State, in that month along, in Wisconsin ALONE their were 40 SEPERATE firebombings on campus. 40! That was just in one state.

Kids didnt act like they were going to overthrow their parents in 1966 but by 1972 it certainly seemed like that.

All I am saying now, is that this atmosphere has returned. its in the music. Its in the art. Its everywhere.

People dont seem to have the optimism they had in 2003, i am sure I am not the only person who sees this. Its gone from "end the war in iraq" to "this is the end of the world".

No one can live like that. Either you deal with it through getting feelings out, through postive ways, music, art, etc... or you lose it and go postal and shoot 32 people. Its all related.

The worrying thing now is that people dont seem to be able to deal with it in positive ways. Returning soldiers arent dealing with grief in positive ways. And people on the homefront arent dealing with anger in positive ways.

I refuse to stop talking about iraq. Please say that to a mother who lost her son in Iraq, to stop talking about Iraq and get over it. I would assume she would punch your lights out, and she probably would be justified.

This war is wrong. It effects people differently, but to tell me to get over it...


SOME PEOPLE!

soulsinging

Cheguevara6 wrote:

plus its laughable how you all arent able to connect here. In the days of old, you had after years and years of vietnam, drugged out soldiers coming back to the haight and berkeley, and the neighborhoods being decimated, hippies raping 5 year old girls, hippies eating neighborhood cats for food. You had people joining the SLA, Patty hearst stuck up a bank, you had the weathermen blowing up buildings, you had people going insane.

And ou want to suggest that had nothing to do with the climate in america at the time?

And now you want to suggest that people arent reacting now?

This IS how our generation protests. They bring guns to school. Its sad but true. Face facts buddy.

I am trying to stop all this. All your doing is offering superficial statements.

Taking kids video games away and taking their marilyn manson cd's away aint stopping these kids. its happening. Look away or do something.

where did i suggest taking away cd's or video games? i see a generation of very frustrated and lost people who feel powerless and hopeless. i see it as a result of delusions of grandeur. we grew up on tv shows where all problems were solved in a half hour, where to beat the game you just gun down a few more people, where famous musicians didn't work at mastering their craft to get to the top, they were picked and manufactured by ceo's. athletes making millions straight from high school. everything is instantaneous and huge. and then when people realize they're not good enough to win american idol or be lebron james or solve the world's problems with a passionate speech at the show's climax... they quit. they give up. they go to school and kill people, they shut down and take whatever job and work it until they're dead, or they go off to a commune and try to forget that stuff is happening. we demand the world and demand it now. it doesn't work like that. you find your place and your passion and you work at it. and you find people who are it to work on other things. and you help and support each other. im not going to change the world or stop the iraq war, but i might be able to help a few kids avoid a lifetime black mark by going through the system this summer. you do your part on a small scale, and it grows. not everyone can be john lennon or bono. most of us are small people with small ambitions. but that doesn't mean we're helpless. we need to make the changes we can, not the ones we wish we could. becos even if we got everything the way we wished it was, there would be problems... there are always more things to wish for. we need to understand our limits and work within them. that adds up. and there's no shame in it.

musicismylife78

what exactly is your problem with me soulsinging. Every post I have on this board, you come one with some stupid snide comment meant as a dig agaisnt me. Its old. Give it up. You seem to see me as some long haired hippie loser. Thats fine with me, but please, stop wasting your typing fingers on telling me constantly about it.

Its gotten old.

Give it a rest

And bother someone else

I admit some of my posts are long winded rants but I have over 2,000 posts here. Some are genuine. Some are real. And you continue to hold some childish vendetta against me.

Grow up

soulsinging

Cheguevara6 wrote:

People dont seem to have the optimism they had in 2003, i am sure I am not the only person who sees this. Its gone from "end the war in iraq" to "this is the end of the world".

i don't see anyone saying that. no one but you. i don't know a single person who thinks iraq is anything close to the end of the world. it's a huge fuck up on our part and a tragedy, but it is not the end of the world. just another terrible war in a long line of terrible wars. i wish we'd never started it (and i've said that since day one, i never supported the war) and i wish we were out now. but that would not make the kind of sweeping change you're talking about. if most americans barely feel the effects of being in a war, how would us not being in a war suddenly make society peachy keen?

Cheguevara6 wrote:

I refuse to stop talking about iraq. Please say that to a mother who lost her son in Iraq, to stop talking about Iraq and get over it. I would assume she would punch your lights out, and she probably would be justified.

im not saying you shouldn't talk about iraq. im saying it is not the only cause, source, and solution to every problem facing america as you seem to think. the war could end tomorrow and we could have american troop out of iraq by the weekend, and it would change very little at home. people would still be sexually abused, ground down at their jobs, killing classmates at school. the problems run much, much deeper than iraq. it's a symptom, not the problem.