Those are just two writings. I've just read them and they are not entirely without at least some technical merit.
what technical merit would that be? he had no grasp of plotting mechanics or character or anything else. clearly showed the intellectual capability of a juvenile at best. unable to form coherent thoughts. unless you mean he knew how to spell, capitalize and punctuate? but his thought process was that of a petulant child. in fact, i think che should read these plays to see how his immature rants about how adults are all big meanies and kids are all fearlessly righteous and should put adults in their place actually sound to the rest the normal world.
I'll admit to being squeamish, but the Lego Star Wars and the ones made for general audience are violent enough for me. Whenever someone on the screen goes up in a puff as a consequence of a kid pushing a button, I think there's something wrong.
Understandable. I can totally see where you're coming from. But you're probably responsible enough to limit what your children take in in the forms of media entertainment. I just dont want people blaming video games when they are no more at fault than music or movies. They all fall into the category of decives that an be restricted by parents who are not too lazy to enter their childrens world.
what technical merit would that be? he had no grasp of plotting mechanics or character or anything else. clearly showed the intellectual capability of a juvenile at best. unable to form coherent thoughts. unless you mean he knew how to spell, capitalize and punctuate? but his thought process was that of a petulant child. in fact, i think che should read these plays to see how his immature rants about how adults are all big meanies and kids are all fearlessly righteous and should put adults in their place actually sound to the rest the normal world.
Yeah, the content is all wrapped up in a sort of creative psychobubble. But, it isn't psychobabble. There is some coherence that even you understand. I don't know that he was capable of knowing what his instructor would think of what he wrote, however, it was in this creative context he was able to convey exactly what he wanted to convey, and that takes some skill and knowledge.
what technical merit would that be? he had no grasp of plotting mechanics or character or anything else. clearly showed the intellectual capability of a juvenile at best. unable to form coherent thoughts. unless you mean he knew how to spell, capitalize and punctuate? but his thought process was that of a petulant child. in fact, i think che should read these plays to see how his immature rants about how adults are all big meanies and kids are all fearlessly righteous and should put adults in their place actually sound to the rest the normal world.
i don't see any resemblence to che's posts here, and the plays we're talking about.
Something to think about, just a brain game, an example. Not the end all be all of theories or brain storming.
This is a community. Within this forum, within this particular thread is a community, people are expressing opinions, and wanting feedback. What has to happen within these pages for it to mirror what you want to happen within your own physical community?
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
Something to think about, just a brain game, an example. Not the end all be all of theories or brain storming.
This is a community. Within this forum, within this particular thread is a community, people are expressing opinions, and wanting feedback. What has to happen within these pages for it to mirror what you want to happen within your own physical community?
If I were 16 again I would say "more pussy, and more pot."
edit: i mean, that's what i would say at the community meeting.
if i were 16.
again.
i am just so pissed at people with easy solutions. These school shootings have been on the media radar since mid 1990's. And the solutions have all been tried. We have done what I discussed in previous posts. We had zero tolerance, We had metal detectors at schools. At we have given kids that have acted out doses of Ritalin. It isnt stopping these tragedies. Although I do think a previous poster was right, media sensationalism and media normalization of violence is wrong, and evil, but it didnt cause kids to massacre others.
You and I could watch nothing but Freddy Kreuger movies for a week, or watch only Tarantino movies for a week. But the fact remains we wouldnt go and shoot up our schools.
Its beyond a video game, or tv show, or violent music. This whole cultures sick,it rationalizes violence and murder and death.
I know I wasnt the only person who felt the tragedy at Virginia wasnt out of the ordinary, it was ordinary, I didnt bat an eye, I knew it would happen.
As long as its normal to read about 4 more 18 year olds blown to bits in Iraq, as long as its normal to read about kids bringing guns to school and blowing away their friends, as long as thats normal nothing will change.
It will only change if people actually do something. Blaming death metal or Marilyn manson or Eminem or videogames or violent movies or whatever on these murders is absurd and wrong.
33 deaths shouldnt be routine, and shouldnt be normal. But thats what it has become. It isnt out of the ordinary to read about it. It happens every month. Last october or November you had a three week string of them, remember the Amish shootings and all that.
I am a student of history. I know what happened in the last few years of Vietnam, how the hippies who once sang of peace and love and flowers in your hair, had become jaded, angry, bitter, innocence was lost. The hippie enclaves of 1967 were way different than the reality of life for these youngsters in 1972 or so.
When violence has become normal. When I find it so normal to read of kids being blown to bits in Iraq, then we have a problem.
Kids these days are shown how to deal with anger and problems and conflict. You dont deal with it through mediation, talking, discussion. No, you use violence.
Michael moore exhaustively talked about this in Bowling for Columbine. Anyone think its a coincidince the Columbine happened on the day the u.s. dropped the most bombs on Kosovo since WWII? Is that a coincidence.
We lead by example. I cant think of too many leaders who lead by nonviolence and talking. We lead by violence and bombs. Bush is responsible but so is Clinton and all the other Dems.
It would be a shame to allow this to become the way of life for college or high school or middle school or elementary school kids. Kids dont deserve to die before their parents. its not the order of things. Parents die before their kids. If I have a kid, I will sit them down and explicitly tell them, "I die before you"
When did our priorities become like this? Where we argue in the media about silly comments made by Imus or Mel Gibson or Britney's meltdown or Anna Nicole, yet we have no tolerance to discuss our children.
When I talk about how I lost my innocence, this is what I meant. Kids didnt deserve to die the other day. But as long as the larger violence in society continues, and as long as people fail to connect the obvious dots, these killing will continue, more kids will die needlessly.
Doesnt it make you happy, that post Columbine, Dems and Republicans were suggesting these kids were killing other kids because of video games and Marilyn Manson. Al Gore, the Clintons and of course the Republicans all ate it up with a spoon.
Something more than video games and Marilyn Manson is troubling our generation. Its a crying shame, no one has picked up on this.
I assume, pretty soon they will wheel out the demons of this shooter. They will talk about what music he listened to, the books he read, the movies he watched. Like that could cause someone to gun down 32 people.
We are always looking for easy solutions. I am sick of it. Our kids are killing each other and we dont give a damn
As long as its normal to read about 4 more 18 year olds blown to bits in Iraq, as long as its normal to read about kids bringing guns to school and blowing away their friends, as long as thats normal nothing will change.
The government's not raising my child so they have next to no influence on my child. My kid doesn't shoot people because of the way he's been raised and I got lucky in getting a fairly good kid to start with.
I find it laughable that you blame the government for what is clearly a parenting problem. Even if the parenting problem is only not noticing your kid is sick and needs help.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Yeah, the content is all wrapped up in a sort of creative psychobubble. But, it isn't psychobabble. There is some coherence that even you understand. I don't know that he was capable of knowing what his instructor would think of what he wrote, however, it was in this creative context he was able to convey exactly what he wanted to convey, and that takes some skill and knowledge.
im not seeing it dude. i see no coherence to that nonsense. conspiracies left and right, murder plots that contradict each other, idiot kids "sticking it to the man." it was nonsense. there was no coherent point. just bratty kids talking shit to the mean oppressor adults.
i don't see any resemblence to che's posts here, and the plays we're talking about.
adults are evil, kids are good. and kids need to RISE UP and teach those evil adults/step-fathers/teachers a lesson. read his first post... again calling for some ridiculous revolution.
Something to think about, just a brain game, an example. Not the end all be all of theories or brain storming.
This is a community. Within this forum, within this particular thread is a community, people are expressing opinions, and wanting feedback. What has to happen within these pages for it to mirror what you want to happen within your own physical community?
nothing has to happen in these pages. im saying that what goes on here has no connection to the reality happening out there. you can't get to know your next door neighbor by "practicing" on here. you need to turn this computer off and go say hi to them, every day.
We are always looking for easy solutions. I am sick of it. Our kids are killing each other and we dont give a damn.
How can you justify this when all you are doing is blaming the government and running off to a commune to live? Take some responsibility for what you see going on around you and reach out to the troubled kids. Man up.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
The government's not raising my child so they have next to no influence on my child. My kid doesn't shoot people because of the way he's been raised and I got lucky in getting a fairly good kid to start with.
I find it laughable that you blame the government for what is clearly a parenting problem. Even if the parenting problem is only not noticing your kid is sick and needs help.
by passing the buck to blame the government and the iraq war he's doing the same thing he's railing against with respect to manson and video games. just a different scapegoat.
I blame a small part on the video game world. You have had whole generation of kids that play nothing but video games. They kill people in these games and they think doing it for real its also just a game. I remember coming home from school and playing outside or doing something besides sitting in front of a t.v. And killing people on a game for 5 hrs. Of course there are non shooting games. But the shooting games make kids feel cooler. Yes this was a college student but this shit has been happening for yrs. Wake the fuck up parents and tell and show yr kid life is not a video game. You can't go around killing people to solve yr problems. I'm off point cause once again this was college kids. But I just think the video game world plays a small part in this terrible and sad situations. My prayers go out to the ones that were lost and for those who's lives will never be the same. I always thought Columbine was the worst shooting. So sad that this had to happen.
peace
NO the blame should be put on the parents that allow there 14-15 year old kids to have a video game that clearly says MA on it.it goes deeper then just video games, its something in the brain that a person is born with. over the years i have played the grand theft auto sersis hours on end
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
How can you justify this when all you are doing is blaming the government and running off to a commune to live? Take some responsibility for what you see going on around you and reach out to the troubled kids. Man up.
listen jerk...
there was a saying back in the sixties...try and fix your own head. I cant help other people and be a better activist if the world is getting to me, and I am afraid to read the paper. That doesnt help. So trying to work on myself, find myself, heal myself is what is important to me.
I dont apologize for working on getting my head straight. I have been an activist for the past 7 years. Been to protests, volunteered at local peace and justice organizations, signed petitions, been active in the struggle, gone to see speakers, listened to political music, seen political movies, read political books, but that isnt working now. The war, the continuous death that seems to be occuring is bothering me. I dont have to apologize for moving to a commune. In fact I reccomend it to everyone else.
In the past, maybe the right and moral thing to do was to get a job in mainstream society, be some pencil pushing office worker. This isnt the time for that. Now the moral thing to do is to move to a commune and drop out.
there was a saying back in the sixties...try and fix your own head. I cant help other people and be a better activist if the world is getting to me, and I am afraid to read the paper. That doesnt help. So trying to work on myself, find myself, heal myself is what is important to me.
I dont apologize for working on getting my head straight. I have been an activist for the past 7 years. Been to protests, volunteered at local peace and justice organizations, signed petitions, been active in the struggle, gone to see speakers, listened to political music, seen political movies, read political books, but that isnt working now. The war, the continuous death that seems to be occuring is bothering me. I dont have to apologize for moving to a commune. In fact I reccomend it to everyone else.
In the past, maybe the right and moral thing to do was to get a job in mainstream society, be some pencil pushing office worker. This isnt the time for that. Now the moral thing to do is to move to a commune and drop out.
Well if you're not going to be part of the solution then you're part of the problem so stop complaining about the situation. You say you don't have your head on straight yet cast blame on the government. Ever think casting blame on the government is just one more symptom of not having your head on straight.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
i have taken responsibility, I indicted myself along with everyone else in the first post. I said I blamed myself and others for our ignorance and lack of trying to do something to stop school shootings. I am antiwar and have been against President Bush's war since 2001, but I have blood on my hands just like everyone else. I live in a society, and go about my buisness and go to school, and generally act happy, all the while kids in Afghanistan and Iraq die. I blame myself and everyone else for the mess we are in. The question is, what are we going to do about it.
The revolution i envision, will require maybe 1 million communes, and maybe 100 people per commune. I am doing my part
there was a saying back in the sixties...try and fix your own head. I cant help other people and be a better activist if the world is getting to me, and I am afraid to read the paper. That doesnt help. So trying to work on myself, find myself, heal myself is what is important to me.
I dont apologize for working on getting my head straight. I have been an activist for the past 7 years. Been to protests, volunteered at local peace and justice organizations, signed petitions, been active in the struggle, gone to see speakers, listened to political music, seen political movies, read political books, but that isnt working now. The war, the continuous death that seems to be occuring is bothering me. I dont have to apologize for moving to a commune. In fact I reccomend it to everyone else.
In the past, maybe the right and moral thing to do was to get a job in mainstream society, be some pencil pushing office worker. This isnt the time for that. Now the moral thing to do is to move to a commune and drop out.
the things you listed are all passive. you can't get peace by standing around holding signs or listening to speakers. what are peace and justice organizations? you need to get involved... lobby congress, not stand on corners. run for office. pester government officials. work on legislation. there are ways to do these things.
and you need to get over iraq dude. communes and dropping out did not stop the vietnam war, and they're not going to stop the iraq war. the problem in the 60s is they thought like you... if they could just run away and smoke enough pot, the war would just end and governments would fall. they expected far too much and worked for it far too little. and then when they found out their small vision of utopia was never going to happen, they just sold out and walked right into the boardroom. it's not like that anymore. you get your head on straight, stay grounded, and you can help change things without abandoning your ideals like they did. it can be done. but it takes work. a lot of work. and there's going to be a lot of failure, pain and frustration. but you're going to see a lot more results than you will if you take the coward's way and just run from it all. you're too obsessed with iraq. it's one piece of a big puzzle and wars happen. it's just a fact of existence and it's not going to stop unless you turn your passions towards being in a position where you can make enough waves to stop them.
the things you listed are all passive. you can't get peace by standing around holding signs or listening to speakers. what are peace and justice organizations? you need to get involved... lobby congress, not stand on corners. run for office. pester government officials. work on legislation. there are ways to do these things.
and you need to get over iraq dude. communes and dropping out did not stop the vietnam war, and they're not going to stop the iraq war. the problem in the 60s is they thought like you... if they could just run away and smoke enough pot, the war would just end and governments would fall. they expected far too much and worked for it far too little. and then when they found out their small vision of utopia was never going to happen, they just sold out and walked right into the boardroom. it's not like that anymore. you get your head on straight, stay grounded, and you can help change things without abandoning your ideals like they did. it can be done. but it takes work. a lot of work. and there's going to be a lot of failure, pain and frustration. but you're going to see a lot more results than you will if you take the coward's way and just run from it all. you're too obsessed with iraq. it's one piece of a big puzzle and wars happen. it's just a fact of existence and it's not going to stop unless you turn your passions towards being in a position where you can make enough waves to stop them.
Great post and I mean it. People don't want to work for change. I think that's partially to blame for so many protests ending as riots now a days. There ssems to be video game mentality of "Gee we've been protesting for 15 minutes and things haven't changed so lets get all frustrated and break shit."
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
the things you listed are all passive. you can't get peace by standing around holding signs or listening to speakers. what are peace and justice organizations? you need to get involved... lobby congress, not stand on corners. run for office. pester government officials. work on legislation. there are ways to do these things.
and you need to get over iraq dude. communes and dropping out did not stop the vietnam war, and they're not going to stop the iraq war. the problem in the 60s is they thought like you... if they could just run away and smoke enough pot, the war would just end and governments would fall. they expected far too much and worked for it far too little. and then when they found out their small vision of utopia was never going to happen, they just sold out and walked right into the boardroom. it's not like that anymore. you get your head on straight, stay grounded, and you can help change things without abandoning your ideals like they did. it can be done. but it takes work. a lot of work. and there's going to be a lot of failure, pain and frustration. but you're going to see a lot more results than you will if you take the coward's way and just run from it all. you're too obsessed with iraq. it's one piece of a big puzzle and wars happen. it's just a fact of existence and it's not going to stop unless you turn your passions towards being in a position where you can make enough waves to stop them.
First, please get off my back. Fine, you dislike my politics or me as a person or poster, but please dont act snotty like this when replying to my posts. its hurtful.
Telling me my activism in the past 7 years is useless and crap is hurtful. Honestly.
I think we need people in ALL aspects of activism. All the stuff you suggested is all within the system, and thats great, we need the Bonos of the world. They can influence politicians and make headway. Thats great. But we also need people working outside the system.
Personally I admire the bonos of the world but I also admire the petitioners, the grandmas who stand on corners with signs, the local peace organization in your or my town, etc...
Activism comes in many forms. I do what I feel is right. I havent attacked you personally, and please dont attack me personally. You disagree with my beliefs and my stated mission to move to a commune, great, more power to you. But please post that crap elsewhere.
I am an idealist. I believe we can change the world. I believe we can stop the war. I believe we can stop global warming. Without belief in that, I would have to assume we are all going to die in some fiery furnace apocalypse in 10 years. I hope it doesnt come to that.
I do what I feel is right. I was a 16 year old high school freshman in 2000. I didnt and couldnt run for congress and run for office. I did what I felt was right. I helped out at my local peace and justice organization, they sponser fundraisers, protests and advocate for peace and justice. I handed out fliers to students about the military and how recruiters are shady and that kids have other options besides signing up and enlisting. At my high school we had this thing called a Certificate of Advanced mastery, and you had to show as a senior your proficiency in something. I was the first person, according to my teachers to do a CAM on activism. I got my CAM in activism.
I have educated myself, and taken classes in college and got a degree in sociology, a notoriously political major. I have voted for people I feel support my beliefs.
You want to say their are other ways to do things, fine, i agree. But dont tell me I am useless and make fun of me. We all do what we have to do.
I dont feel particularly fond of congress or politicans in general, so working inside the government like you said means little to me.
Thom Yorke praised bono because he said that if he was in bonos position he would punch bush and blair as opposed to shaking their hands. I think many people feel that way.
I dont feel I am being a good activist. I cant be a good one if I cant help myself. I cant be a good activist if I feel nauseus to read the paper and refuse to watch the news and refuse to keep up on current events. I cant be a good activist if the death toll in iraq is getting to me. I need to help myself.
nothing has to happen in these pages. im saying that what goes on here has no connection to the reality happening out there. you can't get to know your next door neighbor by "practicing" on here. you need to turn this computer off and go say hi to them, every day.
Ok, so you have an action that can be tested. This doesn't need an answer, but how would people over time respond to that?
I am proposing theory for action, and asking for other theories for actions on what can work. I'm not ready, yet, to have it scraped as it's just a theory. When it's proven wrong then it's scraped, of course.
What could I do? What's my theory of action. Talk more to people near me about the news. I rarely do that. There's consistency in what works for a good discussion, and what doesn't work on here. Good as in respectful.
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
We all do what we feel is appropriote. In my mind, getting a job right now, me getting a job, isnt doing what i feel is morally right. I am not talking about you. I am taking about me. I feel it is my moral obligation to move to a commune, because it is the right thing to do. You may disagree. But its what i have chosen.
If you want to come along, your more than welcome, but I havent invited you, so please dont come off like the insensitive jerk you really are.
moving to a commune is the ultimate activist activity soulsinging. Instead of being a poster child for all the right wingers of a dirty hippie without a job, I am actually going to be doing what I speak or putting my money where my mouth is.
The commune aint some drugged out place with sex and drugs and people loafing around. Its a place of labor. You are required to work on the commune and give certain hours. You just dont work at an office, you work in rural environments and out in nature.
For me its always been about, instead of complaining why not go out and do something. Instead of saying "lets stop the war", I have been going outside and protesting since 2000.
Now, I am saying that people should move to communes. And instead of telling people to do that, I am actually putting my money where my mouth is. I am moving to 2 communes this summer.
plus its laughable how you all arent able to connect here. In the days of old, you had after years and years of vietnam, drugged out soldiers coming back to the haight and berkeley, and the neighborhoods being decimated, hippies raping 5 year old girls, hippies eating neighborhood cats for food. You had people joining the SLA, Patty hearst stuck up a bank, you had the weathermen blowing up buildings, you had people going insane.
And ou want to suggest that had nothing to do with the climate in america at the time?
And now you want to suggest that people arent reacting now?
This IS how our generation protests. They bring guns to school. Its sad but true. Face facts buddy.
I am trying to stop all this. All your doing is offering superficial statements.
Taking kids video games away and taking their marilyn manson cd's away aint stopping these kids. its happening. Look away or do something.
First, please get off my back. Fine, you dislike my politics or me as a person or poster, but please dont act snotty like this when replying to my posts. its hurtful.
Telling me my activism in the past 7 years is useless and crap is hurtful. Honestly.
I think we need people in ALL aspects of activism. All the stuff you suggested is all within the system, and thats great, we need the Bonos of the world. They can influence politicians and make headway. Thats great. But we also need people working outside the system.
Personally I admire the bonos of the world but I also admire the petitioners, the grandmas who stand on corners with signs, the local peace organization in your or my town, etc...
Activism comes in many forms. I do what I feel is right. I havent attacked you personally, and please dont attack me personally. You disagree with my beliefs and my stated mission to move to a commune, great, more power to you. But please post that crap elsewhere.
I am an idealist. I believe we can change the world. I believe we can stop the war. I believe we can stop global warming. Without belief in that, I would have to assume we are all going to die in some fiery furnace apocalypse in 10 years. I hope it doesnt come to that.
I do what I feel is right. I was a 16 year old high school freshman in 2000. I didnt and couldnt run for congress and run for office. I did what I felt was right. I helped out at my local peace and justice organization, they sponser fundraisers, protests and advocate for peace and justice. I handed out fliers to students about the military and how recruiters are shady and that kids have other options besides signing up and enlisting. At my high school we had this thing called a Certificate of Advanced mastery, and you had to show as a senior your proficiency in something. I was the first person, according to my teachers to do a CAM on activism. I got my CAM in activism.
I have educated myself, and taken classes in college and got a degree in sociology, a notoriously political major. I have voted for people I feel support my beliefs.
You want to say their are other ways to do things, fine, i agree. But dont tell me I am useless and make fun of me. We all do what we have to do.
I dont feel particularly fond of congress or politicans in general, so working inside the government like you said means little to me.
Thom Yorke praised bono because he said that if he was in bonos position he would punch bush and blair as opposed to shaking their hands. I think many people feel that way.
I dont feel I am being a good activist. I cant be a good one if I cant help myself. I cant be a good activist if I feel nauseus to read the paper and refuse to watch the news and refuse to keep up on current events. I cant be a good activist if the death toll in iraq is getting to me. I need to help myself.
im not saying you're useless, im saying your passion is misdirected and im sad to see it go to waste. i used to be just like you. but you can't wish away the things you don't agree with. you have to stand and fight them and that's a hell of a lot harder. there are too few people who are willing to do that.
whether you think kids will rise up and start the revolution as i state it IS IRRELEVANT
The sixties were textbook. It started with kids innocently rebelling and as things got bad, the war continued, race riots, etc... it became more frantic. This isnt complex stuff soulsinging. I am a graduate of college, but I dont think one need to evene be a high school grad to understand basic stuff like that. As the sixties started it was "flowers in the hair, flowers in guns". By the end it ended in Manson killings, Altamont killings, and people going insane. Kids thinking they could stop the war by setting off bombs
In the after math of Kent State, in that month along, in Wisconsin ALONE their were 40 SEPERATE firebombings on campus. 40! That was just in one state.
Kids didnt act like they were going to overthrow their parents in 1966 but by 1972 it certainly seemed like that.
All I am saying now, is that this atmosphere has returned. its in the music. Its in the art. Its everywhere.
People dont seem to have the optimism they had in 2003, i am sure I am not the only person who sees this. Its gone from "end the war in iraq" to "this is the end of the world".
No one can live like that. Either you deal with it through getting feelings out, through postive ways, music, art, etc... or you lose it and go postal and shoot 32 people. Its all related.
The worrying thing now is that people dont seem to be able to deal with it in positive ways. Returning soldiers arent dealing with grief in positive ways. And people on the homefront arent dealing with anger in positive ways.
I refuse to stop talking about iraq. Please say that to a mother who lost her son in Iraq, to stop talking about Iraq and get over it. I would assume she would punch your lights out, and she probably would be justified.
This war is wrong. It effects people differently, but to tell me to get over it...
plus its laughable how you all arent able to connect here. In the days of old, you had after years and years of vietnam, drugged out soldiers coming back to the haight and berkeley, and the neighborhoods being decimated, hippies raping 5 year old girls, hippies eating neighborhood cats for food. You had people joining the SLA, Patty hearst stuck up a bank, you had the weathermen blowing up buildings, you had people going insane.
And ou want to suggest that had nothing to do with the climate in america at the time?
And now you want to suggest that people arent reacting now?
This IS how our generation protests. They bring guns to school. Its sad but true. Face facts buddy.
I am trying to stop all this. All your doing is offering superficial statements.
Taking kids video games away and taking their marilyn manson cd's away aint stopping these kids. its happening. Look away or do something.
where did i suggest taking away cd's or video games? i see a generation of very frustrated and lost people who feel powerless and hopeless. i see it as a result of delusions of grandeur. we grew up on tv shows where all problems were solved in a half hour, where to beat the game you just gun down a few more people, where famous musicians didn't work at mastering their craft to get to the top, they were picked and manufactured by ceo's. athletes making millions straight from high school. everything is instantaneous and huge. and then when people realize they're not good enough to win american idol or be lebron james or solve the world's problems with a passionate speech at the show's climax... they quit. they give up. they go to school and kill people, they shut down and take whatever job and work it until they're dead, or they go off to a commune and try to forget that stuff is happening. we demand the world and demand it now. it doesn't work like that. you find your place and your passion and you work at it. and you find people who are it to work on other things. and you help and support each other. im not going to change the world or stop the iraq war, but i might be able to help a few kids avoid a lifetime black mark by going through the system this summer. you do your part on a small scale, and it grows. not everyone can be john lennon or bono. most of us are small people with small ambitions. but that doesn't mean we're helpless. we need to make the changes we can, not the ones we wish we could. becos even if we got everything the way we wished it was, there would be problems... there are always more things to wish for. we need to understand our limits and work within them. that adds up. and there's no shame in it.
what exactly is your problem with me soulsinging. Every post I have on this board, you come one with some stupid snide comment meant as a dig agaisnt me. Its old. Give it up. You seem to see me as some long haired hippie loser. Thats fine with me, but please, stop wasting your typing fingers on telling me constantly about it.
Its gotten old.
Give it a rest
And bother someone else
I admit some of my posts are long winded rants but I have over 2,000 posts here. Some are genuine. Some are real. And you continue to hold some childish vendetta against me.
People dont seem to have the optimism they had in 2003, i am sure I am not the only person who sees this. Its gone from "end the war in iraq" to "this is the end of the world".
i don't see anyone saying that. no one but you. i don't know a single person who thinks iraq is anything close to the end of the world. it's a huge fuck up on our part and a tragedy, but it is not the end of the world. just another terrible war in a long line of terrible wars. i wish we'd never started it (and i've said that since day one, i never supported the war) and i wish we were out now. but that would not make the kind of sweeping change you're talking about. if most americans barely feel the effects of being in a war, how would us not being in a war suddenly make society peachy keen?
I refuse to stop talking about iraq. Please say that to a mother who lost her son in Iraq, to stop talking about Iraq and get over it. I would assume she would punch your lights out, and she probably would be justified.
im not saying you shouldn't talk about iraq. im saying it is not the only cause, source, and solution to every problem facing america as you seem to think. the war could end tomorrow and we could have american troop out of iraq by the weekend, and it would change very little at home. people would still be sexually abused, ground down at their jobs, killing classmates at school. the problems run much, much deeper than iraq. it's a symptom, not the problem.
Comments
what technical merit would that be? he had no grasp of plotting mechanics or character or anything else. clearly showed the intellectual capability of a juvenile at best. unable to form coherent thoughts. unless you mean he knew how to spell, capitalize and punctuate? but his thought process was that of a petulant child. in fact, i think che should read these plays to see how his immature rants about how adults are all big meanies and kids are all fearlessly righteous and should put adults in their place actually sound to the rest the normal world.
Understandable. I can totally see where you're coming from. But you're probably responsible enough to limit what your children take in in the forms of media entertainment. I just dont want people blaming video games when they are no more at fault than music or movies. They all fall into the category of decives that an be restricted by parents who are not too lazy to enter their childrens world.
Yeah, the content is all wrapped up in a sort of creative psychobubble. But, it isn't psychobabble. There is some coherence that even you understand. I don't know that he was capable of knowing what his instructor would think of what he wrote, however, it was in this creative context he was able to convey exactly what he wanted to convey, and that takes some skill and knowledge.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
i don't see any resemblence to che's posts here, and the plays we're talking about.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
This is a community. Within this forum, within this particular thread is a community, people are expressing opinions, and wanting feedback. What has to happen within these pages for it to mirror what you want to happen within your own physical community?
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
If I were 16 again I would say "more pussy, and more pot."
edit: i mean, that's what i would say at the community meeting.
if i were 16.
again.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
You and I could watch nothing but Freddy Kreuger movies for a week, or watch only Tarantino movies for a week. But the fact remains we wouldnt go and shoot up our schools.
Its beyond a video game, or tv show, or violent music. This whole cultures sick,it rationalizes violence and murder and death.
I know I wasnt the only person who felt the tragedy at Virginia wasnt out of the ordinary, it was ordinary, I didnt bat an eye, I knew it would happen.
As long as its normal to read about 4 more 18 year olds blown to bits in Iraq, as long as its normal to read about kids bringing guns to school and blowing away their friends, as long as thats normal nothing will change.
It will only change if people actually do something. Blaming death metal or Marilyn manson or Eminem or videogames or violent movies or whatever on these murders is absurd and wrong.
33 deaths shouldnt be routine, and shouldnt be normal. But thats what it has become. It isnt out of the ordinary to read about it. It happens every month. Last october or November you had a three week string of them, remember the Amish shootings and all that.
I am a student of history. I know what happened in the last few years of Vietnam, how the hippies who once sang of peace and love and flowers in your hair, had become jaded, angry, bitter, innocence was lost. The hippie enclaves of 1967 were way different than the reality of life for these youngsters in 1972 or so.
When violence has become normal. When I find it so normal to read of kids being blown to bits in Iraq, then we have a problem.
Kids these days are shown how to deal with anger and problems and conflict. You dont deal with it through mediation, talking, discussion. No, you use violence.
Michael moore exhaustively talked about this in Bowling for Columbine. Anyone think its a coincidince the Columbine happened on the day the u.s. dropped the most bombs on Kosovo since WWII? Is that a coincidence.
We lead by example. I cant think of too many leaders who lead by nonviolence and talking. We lead by violence and bombs. Bush is responsible but so is Clinton and all the other Dems.
It would be a shame to allow this to become the way of life for college or high school or middle school or elementary school kids. Kids dont deserve to die before their parents. its not the order of things. Parents die before their kids. If I have a kid, I will sit them down and explicitly tell them, "I die before you"
When did our priorities become like this? Where we argue in the media about silly comments made by Imus or Mel Gibson or Britney's meltdown or Anna Nicole, yet we have no tolerance to discuss our children.
When I talk about how I lost my innocence, this is what I meant. Kids didnt deserve to die the other day. But as long as the larger violence in society continues, and as long as people fail to connect the obvious dots, these killing will continue, more kids will die needlessly.
Doesnt it make you happy, that post Columbine, Dems and Republicans were suggesting these kids were killing other kids because of video games and Marilyn Manson. Al Gore, the Clintons and of course the Republicans all ate it up with a spoon.
Something more than video games and Marilyn Manson is troubling our generation. Its a crying shame, no one has picked up on this.
I assume, pretty soon they will wheel out the demons of this shooter. They will talk about what music he listened to, the books he read, the movies he watched. Like that could cause someone to gun down 32 people.
We are always looking for easy solutions. I am sick of it. Our kids are killing each other and we dont give a damn
I find it laughable that you blame the government for what is clearly a parenting problem. Even if the parenting problem is only not noticing your kid is sick and needs help.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
im not seeing it dude. i see no coherence to that nonsense. conspiracies left and right, murder plots that contradict each other, idiot kids "sticking it to the man." it was nonsense. there was no coherent point. just bratty kids talking shit to the mean oppressor adults.
adults are evil, kids are good. and kids need to RISE UP and teach those evil adults/step-fathers/teachers a lesson. read his first post... again calling for some ridiculous revolution.
nothing has to happen in these pages. im saying that what goes on here has no connection to the reality happening out there. you can't get to know your next door neighbor by "practicing" on here. you need to turn this computer off and go say hi to them, every day.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
by passing the buck to blame the government and the iraq war he's doing the same thing he's railing against with respect to manson and video games. just a different scapegoat.
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
listen jerk...
there was a saying back in the sixties...try and fix your own head. I cant help other people and be a better activist if the world is getting to me, and I am afraid to read the paper. That doesnt help. So trying to work on myself, find myself, heal myself is what is important to me.
I dont apologize for working on getting my head straight. I have been an activist for the past 7 years. Been to protests, volunteered at local peace and justice organizations, signed petitions, been active in the struggle, gone to see speakers, listened to political music, seen political movies, read political books, but that isnt working now. The war, the continuous death that seems to be occuring is bothering me. I dont have to apologize for moving to a commune. In fact I reccomend it to everyone else.
In the past, maybe the right and moral thing to do was to get a job in mainstream society, be some pencil pushing office worker. This isnt the time for that. Now the moral thing to do is to move to a commune and drop out.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
The revolution i envision, will require maybe 1 million communes, and maybe 100 people per commune. I am doing my part
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
the things you listed are all passive. you can't get peace by standing around holding signs or listening to speakers. what are peace and justice organizations? you need to get involved... lobby congress, not stand on corners. run for office. pester government officials. work on legislation. there are ways to do these things.
and you need to get over iraq dude. communes and dropping out did not stop the vietnam war, and they're not going to stop the iraq war. the problem in the 60s is they thought like you... if they could just run away and smoke enough pot, the war would just end and governments would fall. they expected far too much and worked for it far too little. and then when they found out their small vision of utopia was never going to happen, they just sold out and walked right into the boardroom. it's not like that anymore. you get your head on straight, stay grounded, and you can help change things without abandoning your ideals like they did. it can be done. but it takes work. a lot of work. and there's going to be a lot of failure, pain and frustration. but you're going to see a lot more results than you will if you take the coward's way and just run from it all. you're too obsessed with iraq. it's one piece of a big puzzle and wars happen. it's just a fact of existence and it's not going to stop unless you turn your passions towards being in a position where you can make enough waves to stop them.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
First, please get off my back. Fine, you dislike my politics or me as a person or poster, but please dont act snotty like this when replying to my posts. its hurtful.
Telling me my activism in the past 7 years is useless and crap is hurtful. Honestly.
I think we need people in ALL aspects of activism. All the stuff you suggested is all within the system, and thats great, we need the Bonos of the world. They can influence politicians and make headway. Thats great. But we also need people working outside the system.
Personally I admire the bonos of the world but I also admire the petitioners, the grandmas who stand on corners with signs, the local peace organization in your or my town, etc...
Activism comes in many forms. I do what I feel is right. I havent attacked you personally, and please dont attack me personally. You disagree with my beliefs and my stated mission to move to a commune, great, more power to you. But please post that crap elsewhere.
I am an idealist. I believe we can change the world. I believe we can stop the war. I believe we can stop global warming. Without belief in that, I would have to assume we are all going to die in some fiery furnace apocalypse in 10 years. I hope it doesnt come to that.
I do what I feel is right. I was a 16 year old high school freshman in 2000. I didnt and couldnt run for congress and run for office. I did what I felt was right. I helped out at my local peace and justice organization, they sponser fundraisers, protests and advocate for peace and justice. I handed out fliers to students about the military and how recruiters are shady and that kids have other options besides signing up and enlisting. At my high school we had this thing called a Certificate of Advanced mastery, and you had to show as a senior your proficiency in something. I was the first person, according to my teachers to do a CAM on activism. I got my CAM in activism.
I have educated myself, and taken classes in college and got a degree in sociology, a notoriously political major. I have voted for people I feel support my beliefs.
You want to say their are other ways to do things, fine, i agree. But dont tell me I am useless and make fun of me. We all do what we have to do.
I dont feel particularly fond of congress or politicans in general, so working inside the government like you said means little to me.
Thom Yorke praised bono because he said that if he was in bonos position he would punch bush and blair as opposed to shaking their hands. I think many people feel that way.
I dont feel I am being a good activist. I cant be a good one if I cant help myself. I cant be a good activist if I feel nauseus to read the paper and refuse to watch the news and refuse to keep up on current events. I cant be a good activist if the death toll in iraq is getting to me. I need to help myself.
I am proposing theory for action, and asking for other theories for actions on what can work. I'm not ready, yet, to have it scraped as it's just a theory. When it's proven wrong then it's scraped, of course.
What could I do? What's my theory of action. Talk more to people near me about the news. I rarely do that. There's consistency in what works for a good discussion, and what doesn't work on here. Good as in respectful.
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
If you want to come along, your more than welcome, but I havent invited you, so please dont come off like the insensitive jerk you really are.
jerk
The commune aint some drugged out place with sex and drugs and people loafing around. Its a place of labor. You are required to work on the commune and give certain hours. You just dont work at an office, you work in rural environments and out in nature.
For me its always been about, instead of complaining why not go out and do something. Instead of saying "lets stop the war", I have been going outside and protesting since 2000.
Now, I am saying that people should move to communes. And instead of telling people to do that, I am actually putting my money where my mouth is. I am moving to 2 communes this summer.
And ou want to suggest that had nothing to do with the climate in america at the time?
And now you want to suggest that people arent reacting now?
This IS how our generation protests. They bring guns to school. Its sad but true. Face facts buddy.
I am trying to stop all this. All your doing is offering superficial statements.
Taking kids video games away and taking their marilyn manson cd's away aint stopping these kids. its happening. Look away or do something.
im not saying you're useless, im saying your passion is misdirected and im sad to see it go to waste. i used to be just like you. but you can't wish away the things you don't agree with. you have to stand and fight them and that's a hell of a lot harder. there are too few people who are willing to do that.
The sixties were textbook. It started with kids innocently rebelling and as things got bad, the war continued, race riots, etc... it became more frantic. This isnt complex stuff soulsinging. I am a graduate of college, but I dont think one need to evene be a high school grad to understand basic stuff like that. As the sixties started it was "flowers in the hair, flowers in guns". By the end it ended in Manson killings, Altamont killings, and people going insane. Kids thinking they could stop the war by setting off bombs
In the after math of Kent State, in that month along, in Wisconsin ALONE their were 40 SEPERATE firebombings on campus. 40! That was just in one state.
Kids didnt act like they were going to overthrow their parents in 1966 but by 1972 it certainly seemed like that.
All I am saying now, is that this atmosphere has returned. its in the music. Its in the art. Its everywhere.
People dont seem to have the optimism they had in 2003, i am sure I am not the only person who sees this. Its gone from "end the war in iraq" to "this is the end of the world".
No one can live like that. Either you deal with it through getting feelings out, through postive ways, music, art, etc... or you lose it and go postal and shoot 32 people. Its all related.
The worrying thing now is that people dont seem to be able to deal with it in positive ways. Returning soldiers arent dealing with grief in positive ways. And people on the homefront arent dealing with anger in positive ways.
I refuse to stop talking about iraq. Please say that to a mother who lost her son in Iraq, to stop talking about Iraq and get over it. I would assume she would punch your lights out, and she probably would be justified.
This war is wrong. It effects people differently, but to tell me to get over it...
SOME PEOPLE!
where did i suggest taking away cd's or video games? i see a generation of very frustrated and lost people who feel powerless and hopeless. i see it as a result of delusions of grandeur. we grew up on tv shows where all problems were solved in a half hour, where to beat the game you just gun down a few more people, where famous musicians didn't work at mastering their craft to get to the top, they were picked and manufactured by ceo's. athletes making millions straight from high school. everything is instantaneous and huge. and then when people realize they're not good enough to win american idol or be lebron james or solve the world's problems with a passionate speech at the show's climax... they quit. they give up. they go to school and kill people, they shut down and take whatever job and work it until they're dead, or they go off to a commune and try to forget that stuff is happening. we demand the world and demand it now. it doesn't work like that. you find your place and your passion and you work at it. and you find people who are it to work on other things. and you help and support each other. im not going to change the world or stop the iraq war, but i might be able to help a few kids avoid a lifetime black mark by going through the system this summer. you do your part on a small scale, and it grows. not everyone can be john lennon or bono. most of us are small people with small ambitions. but that doesn't mean we're helpless. we need to make the changes we can, not the ones we wish we could. becos even if we got everything the way we wished it was, there would be problems... there are always more things to wish for. we need to understand our limits and work within them. that adds up. and there's no shame in it.
Its gotten old.
Give it a rest
And bother someone else
I admit some of my posts are long winded rants but I have over 2,000 posts here. Some are genuine. Some are real. And you continue to hold some childish vendetta against me.
Grow up
i don't see anyone saying that. no one but you. i don't know a single person who thinks iraq is anything close to the end of the world. it's a huge fuck up on our part and a tragedy, but it is not the end of the world. just another terrible war in a long line of terrible wars. i wish we'd never started it (and i've said that since day one, i never supported the war) and i wish we were out now. but that would not make the kind of sweeping change you're talking about. if most americans barely feel the effects of being in a war, how would us not being in a war suddenly make society peachy keen?
im not saying you shouldn't talk about iraq. im saying it is not the only cause, source, and solution to every problem facing america as you seem to think. the war could end tomorrow and we could have american troop out of iraq by the weekend, and it would change very little at home. people would still be sexually abused, ground down at their jobs, killing classmates at school. the problems run much, much deeper than iraq. it's a symptom, not the problem.