Obama Video

american

cornnifer wrote:

Not really. i'm not trying to be a prick, nor am i taking up sides on the Abe Lincoln argument, but in all historical fairness, and accuracy, this can't really be credited to Lincoln. He did, in fact, issue the emancipation proclamation, but it was little more than a strategical move. First of all, The E.P. only proclaimed freedom for slaves in those states that had seceded from the union. There were several slave states still loyal to the union which the E.P. didn't touch. Those slaves were still considered legal. Also, if you think about it, he was making laws for states he was no longer in control of! Those states were no longer part of the union, therefore did not recognize Lincoln as their president! Thats kind of like the canadian prime minister issuing decrees for the United States. Completely meaningless.
Furthermore Lincoln had made it clear from the beginning that his primary objective was the saving of the union. He was clear that if he could save the union, and free no slaves, he would do that. If saving the union required him to emancipate them, well, he would do that too.

Lincoln thought secession illegal. States branching off from the federal government is nothing like one countrys prime minister issuing decrees to another country. Lincoln really did emancipate them, thus really bringing an end to slavery.

cornnifer

american wrote:

Lincoln thought secession illegal. States branching off from the federal government is nothing like one countrys prime minister issuing decrees to another country. Lincoln really did emancipate them, thus really bringing an end to slavery.

They states in rebellion didn't ask. They simply seceded and did not recognize Lincoln or his decrees. i'm not trying to get in a fight here and i won't argue the point. But for all the reasons i outlined, in all fairness it was the thirteenth amendment that abolished slavery not the E.P. and not, truly Lincoln.

american

cornnifer wrote:

They states in rebellion didn't ask. They simply seceded and did not recognize Lincoln or his decrees. i'm not trying to get in a fight here and i won't argue the point. But for all the reasons i outlined, in all fairness it was the thirteenth amendment that abolished slavery not the E.P. and not, truly Lincoln.

The abolishment of slavery began with Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation and ended with the Thirteenth Amendment. An estimated four million slaves were freed by the E.P. while the thirteenth amendment freed the remaining 40,000 slaves in Kentucky. I think its fair to say that Lincoln brought an end to slavery.

citizen_drew

Yeah, I don’t know that much about the guy but he sounds wonderful on the surface. Pointing out problems with healthcare, dependency on oil, the economy, and changing politics always has a nice ring to it. Easy to talk about it, we’ll see how it goes...

farfromglorified wrote:

It's certainly nice to see someone be honest about their past, but am I supposed to pretend that past doesn't exist since they admit to it? Furthermore, isn't it valid to ask how that person with a bad past has fundamentally changed?

Yeah I’m not sold on the guy either but, your saying this guy has a “bad” past? Is that a reality? or a fact? or a truth? or just a moral judgment?

Our last two presidents did coke in their past….I don’t really care, just seems like a minor thing.

hippiemom

farfromglorified wrote:

It's certainly nice to see someone be honest about their past, but am I supposed to pretend that past doesn't exist since they admit to it? Furthermore, isn't it valid to ask how that person with a bad past has fundamentally changed?

He's not claiming to have been a total stoner or a coke fiend. I don't think someone who admits to having tried a few things can be said to have a "bad past." I'm assuming, of course, that he didn't try them last week, that it was probably in high school or college, a time of life when most of us kept quite busy doing stupid things. Getting high or doing a few lines at a party really isn't a big deal in my book. Addiction or a criminal record would be a "bad past," not experimentation.