Religion has caused more

Byrnzie

IndianSummer wrote:

and if you still cant understand, then maybe you could tell me what the fuck are you smoking.

Car exhaust pipes! You should try it sometime. They give you profound insight into things of a religious nature. :eek:

Byrnzie

IndianSummer wrote:

i maintain. zorastrianism is the origin of monotheistic religion as we know them today. ie. post-exilic (babyonian exile that is) judaism (and consequently christianity and islam) have borrowed heavily from zorastrianism. post exilic judaism can be traced directly back to the Pharisees.

read this -
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtrian/zoroastrianism_influence.htm


and if you still cant understand, then maybe you could tell me what the fuck are you smoking.

To quote from the source that you provide above:
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"(Exodus 20:3). The full monotheistic conception of God came later (Isaiah 43:10-13, Jer 10:1-16).The second Isaiah juxtaposes the great Persian King Cyrus with the first monotheistic declarations in the Bible."

The point is, we were debating when and where the first monotheistic religion arose. The answer to the question is that the first monotheistic religion that we know of in history arose during the eighteenth dynasty of Egypt - 1353 BC-1336 BC or 1351 BC–1334 BC. There is ample evidence that this religion of the one god - the sun god, or Aten had an influence on early Christianity, as there are many parellels in the two religions - especially the religious views of the Essenes - who were the first Christians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten
This isn't supposition. This is historical fact. Why do you keep arguing for the mere sake of it?

Byrnzie

IndianSummer wrote:

moses is pre exilic.

The Exodus, more fully The Exodus of Israel out of Egypt, was the departure of the Hebrew slaves from Egypt under the leadership of Moses and Aaron as described in the biblical Book of Exodus. It forms the basis of the Jewish holiday of Passover. See also Passage of the Red Sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_exodus

IndianSummer

Byrnzie wrote:

The point is, we were debating when and where the first monotheistic religion arose.

Why do you keep arguing for the mere sake of it?

the point is we were debating, which was the first of the 4 existing monotheistic religions.

atenism or whatever its called isnt existant, and did not shape post (babylonian) exilic judaism. zorastrianism did and post exilic judaism can be traced back to the phareesees, and not aten.

why do you keep arguing for the mere sake of it??

IndianSummer

Byrnzie wrote:

The Exodus, more fully The Exodus of Israel out of Egypt, was the departure of the Hebrew slaves from Egypt under the leadership of Moses and Aaron as described in the biblical Book of Exodus. It forms the basis of the Jewish holiday of Passover. See also Passage of the Red Sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_exodus

i know about the exodus. and that it happened a long before the babylonian exile. moses was pre exilic.

IndianSummer

Byrnzie wrote:

Car exhaust pipes! You should try it sometime. They give you profound insight into things of a religious nature. :eek:

yes somehow i ge the feeling you have been trying that a lot.

Byrnzie

IndianSummer wrote:

the point is we were debating, which was the first of the 4 existing monotheistic religions.

atenism or whatever its called isnt existant, and did not shape post (babylonian) exilic judaism. zorastrianism did and post exilic judaism can be traced back to the phareesees, and not aten.

And on what evidence do you base this assertion? Why do you presume that Atenism had no influence upon Judaism?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1591430461/202-9530431-1508639?v=glance&n=266239

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1591430224/202-9530431-1508639?v=glance&n=266239

In 'Christianity: An Ancient Egyptian Religion' author Ahmed Osman, contends that there is a suppressed history of Christianity that can be traced back to ancient Egypt. He compares the chronology of the Old Testament and its factual content with ancient Egyptian records to show that the major characters of the Hebrew Scriptures - including Solomon, David, Moses and Joshua - are based on Egyptian historical figures. He further suggests that not only were these personalities and the stories associated with them cultivated on the banks of the Nile, but the major tenets of Christian belief - the One God, the Trinity, the hierarchy of heaven, life after death and the virgin birth - are all Egyptian in origin. He likewise provides a convincing argument that Jesus himself came out of Egypt. With the help of modern archaeological findings, Osman shows that Christianity survived as an Egyptian mystery cult until the fourth century A.D., when the Romans embarked on a mission of suppression and persecution. In A.D. 391 the Roman-appointed Bishop Theophilus led a mob into the Serapeum quarter of Alexandria and burned the Alexandrian library, destroying all records of the true Egyptian roots of Christianity. The Romans' version of Christianity, manufactured to maintain political power, claimed that Christianity originated in Judaea. In 'Christianity: An Ancient Egyptian Religion' Osman restores Egypt to its rightful place in the history of Christianity.

IndianSummer

Byrnzie wrote:

And on what evidence do you base this assertion? Why do you presume that Atenism had no influence upon Judaism?

for evidence you could see the links i posted.

and when did i say atenism didnt have its share of influence. hell even the sumerians had their infludnece. (eg - the "enuma slish" story from where comes the 6 day creation concept and the "gilgamesh" story that begat the flood myth).

what i said is, judaism as it exists today/the final (post exilic) form of judaism, was shaped by the "pharisees", during the babylonian exile. thats why there is a marked difference between pre and post exilic judaism - something that even led freud to observe that there may have been 2 moses's.

and since it is this post exilic judaism from where came christianity* and islam, its fair to say that the major monotheistic religions as we know/see them, originated from the zorastrians (pharisees).


* its a diferent matter that christianity then went on to borrow from a host of sources, including, mithraism, egyptian religion, germanic religion etc etc.

Byrnzie

IndianSummer wrote:

for evidence you could see the links i posted.

and when did i say atenism didnt have its share of influence. hell even the sumerians had their infludnece. (eg - the "enuma slish" story from where comes the 6 day creation concept and the "gilgamesh" story that begat the flood myth).

what i said is, judaism as it exists today/the final (post exilic) form of judaism, was shaped by the "pharisees", during the babylonian exile. thats why there is a marked difference between pre and post exilic judaism - something that even led freud to observe that there may have been 2 moses's.

and since it is this post exilic judaism from where came christianity* and islam, its fair to say that the major monotheistic religions as we know/see them, originated from the zorastrians (pharisees).


* its a diferent matter that christianity then went on to borrow from a host of sources, including, mithraism, egyptian religion, germanic religion etc etc.

You need to smoke car exhaust pipes! :eek: