If Obama wins a major milestone in the United State's slow trek towards Marxism will be reached. We've got nationalized banking (with more undoubtedly on the way). We'll soon have national health care. Then we'll nationalize energy and then lastly food (Somebody has to bring down Big Food after all). Half this country will continue to pay almost no income tax while the other half will be demonized as "fat cats" and asked to "pay their fair share."
So this life is sacrifice...
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
It's better for everyone in America if we don't have a large number of people living in poverty.
Unless you started out in poverty and worked your way up, you don't know that you work harder than some poor person trying to feed his children with a low wage job. You just use that idea to justify your lack of compassion.
"Lack of compassion"
It's not the government's job to mandate "compassion". In fact, government redistribution isn't compassion at all-it's force and theft. True compassion involves the individual generously investing in the lives of other people. I trust the good intentions and generosity of the American people more than I do Washington bureaucrats.
So this life is sacrifice...
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
prytoj...once again, isn't what the BUSH administration passed socialism? Distributing $700 billion dollars from my taxes to CEO types and big companies is socialism but I haven't heard Bush, Mccain, or any other republican bashed for being a socialist...i won't go on and add tons of details and interesting points like digster cause i know you don't have the patience or time to read them....acutally answer some opposing questions by digster instead of crying socialism.
"Tonight we're just gonna play you some good old American Rock and Roll." tom petty-7-15-05
free handouts...greater welfare...dont pay taxes and get a refund check anyway...take from the rich, redistribute to the poor
shit, if i didnt have any morals i might be a deadbeat and join this Obama train
nah, i couldnt sink that low, i dont believe in Communism
the rich have been taking from the poor for decades. its not redistributing wealth so much as putting it back where it belongs.
When 1% of the world owns 40% of its resources, seems to be a problem. Add inflation, lack of increase in minumum wage since 1970 or so, Reagan's neoliberal (socialist) policies, and the resulting increase in the number of people below the pverty line-while CEO's are now making 500 times the salary of an average worker, and yeah, we definitely have a problem.
welath has been going up for decades, time to bring it back down where it belongs, into the hands of the people that actually do all the work and run this country.
If Obama wins a major milestone in the United State's slow trek towards Marxism will be reached. We've got nationalized banking (with more undoubtedly on the way). We'll soon have national health care. Then we'll nationalize energy and then lastly food (Somebody has to bring down Big Food after all). Half this country will continue to pay almost no income tax while the other half will be demonized as "fat cats" and asked to "pay their fair share."
what power do politicians have really? they can pass laws, but they can't really affect the population. from prisons, energy, to roads, to infrastructure in general, the power is in the hands of private companies- fascist institutions.
Sure we could keep this fascism, but I prefer freedom...but that's just me.
1) How does someone get "a check in the mail for not doing anything and not paying taxes" as you put it if all of Obama's tax cuts and tax credit policies are, by definition for people paying taxes? Where the hell is the fantastic "check in the mail" that you get for being a citizen in Obama's plan? Tax cuts and tax credits require that someone be paying taxes for them to exist?
.
So, as usual, the truth is much knottier than I thought it was originally. You can actually, in fact, receive a tax credit having not paid an federal income tax; I didn't think that was possible (obviously, you cannot get a tax cut). However, McCain says that the credits will be going to those who do not pay federal income taxes will get the money, while Obama says that it will be taxpayers who receive the tax credit.
So it's not as clear-cut as I thought; it just means one of the top two candidates for our nation's highest office is outright lying. Ugh. Factcheck, here I come.
So, as usual, the truth is much knottier than I thought it was originally. You can actually, in fact, receive a tax credit having not paid an federal income tax; I didn't think that was possible (obviously, you cannot get a tax cut). However, McCain says that the credits will be going to those who do not pay federal income taxes will get the money, while Obama says that it will be taxpayers who receive the tax credit.
So it's not as clear-cut as I thought; it just means one of the top two candidates for our nation's highest office is outright lying. Ugh. Factcheck, here I come.
thanks for keeping an open mind on that.
An Obama presidency is unacceptable.
90% of small business owners in the United States do not make more than $250,000 per year. That is a fact. Obama's tax credit will actually aid small business and not "harm" small business.
It doesn't take a degree in economics to figure this out.
To say that Obama is against small business is complete bullshit. If anyone would actually take the time to inform themselves on what Obama's plan actually is and stop listening to retoric drummed up by the shit smearing Republican base, they realize that these idiotic claims are about as absurd as the whole "Muslim" "Terrorist" crap that they're drumming in your ear as well.
Obama's plan is aimed at generating more money and easing the taxes on the "middle class"
Remember them? The Middle Class?
Apparently, the OP thinks that anyone not making over $250,000 per year is someone who just doesn't work hard enough.
The Middle Class is key to this economic crisis. The more money Middle Class families have to spend, the better.
While we're at it...We should try and give the Middle Class some jobs as well.
The owners may not pay themselves more than $250k a year but when you are a small business owner the income from the business is considered your income and that could be over 250k Hence the Joe the Plumber debate.
The ladder of success is generally sorted from the top down by those who:
Have more intelligence, talent, physical or mental stamina
Work smarter, harder, and faster
Apply themselves more in compulsery education
Do more in post-education
Better navigate their societal institutions
Limit their POOR choices (excuse me), thereby increasing personal opportunity.
All relatively rare exceptions aside....
I thought all liberals believed in evolution, the survival of the fittest and all that... why are rich people supposed to pay poor people again?
First of all the term "liberal" is a bit offensive to me. i really prefer "pinko shitbag". From now on please address me as such.
That being said, it is the working poor that built this country, and it is the working poor that keep it running. Spare me the "up by your bootstraps" nonsense.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
the rich have been taking from the poor for decades. its not redistributing wealth so much as putting it back where it belongs.
When 1% of the world owns 40% of its resources, seems to be a problem. Add inflation, lack of increase in minumum wage since 1970 or so, Reagan's neoliberal (socialist) policies, and the resulting increase in the number of people below the pverty line-while CEO's are now making 500 times the salary of an average worker, and yeah, we definitely have a problem.
welath has been going up for decades, time to bring it back down where it belongs, into the hands of the people that actually do all the work and run this country.
Great...I don't make a lot, so I'll PM you my address and you can send me part of your pay check..
First of all the term "liberal" is a bit offensive to me. i really prefer "pinko shitbag". From now on please address me as such.
That being said, it is the working poor that built this country, and it is the working poor that keep it running. Spare me the "up by your bootstraps" nonsense.
pinko shitbag (since you insist):
the working poor are not the only people who help build this country.
Architects, Engineers, and Contractors actually BUILD this country in the literal sense. Pluimbers, electricians....not "poor people"
the working poor are not the only people who help build this country.
Architects, Engineers, and Contractors actually BUILD this country in the literal sense. Pluimbers, electricians....not "poor people"
save it, learn something.
First of all, i said "built", not "build". Regardless, Architects, engineers, and contractors don't actually build shit, if we're splitting hairs. Plumbers, electricians, carpenters, in some cases, its true may not be "poor", depending on one's operational definition of "poor", but i don't know too many making the 250 thousand we've been discussing. Not even Joe. Far from it actually. My dear father, for example, is a tradesman with give or take a few, about 40 years in. Now, a couple years out from retirement, worry still keeps him up at night. And they're the ones doing all the work while the contractors you mention line their pockets with dollars stained with the sweat and blood of the aforementioned workhorses.
Furthermore the folks we've discussed thus far may "build", in the literal sense, the fact remains that this country would be absolutely unsustainable without the millions of HARDWORKING folks struggling to put meat on the table and keep the lights on. Your "get an education and make better life choices argument is SHIT.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Your father found his place, cry me a freakin' river. Check's in the mail....
Your "working poor" wouldn't have any idea what to build, If people like MYSELF didn't bust my ass through school to TELL them. We tell the "working poor" what to build and how to build it. Period. Save your bleeding heart.
They would have nothing to build were it not for us, as they would not have jobs. We could not tell them what to build, if people could not afford to pay us to do so. See where this is going? Your trickle-up theory is moronic.
If we're telling sob stories:
Sorry your father couldn't accomplish in 40 years in his trade what I could after 8 years in mine, which was make a start for myself with NOTHING but experience, will, and a cheap computer.
I went hungry, I had no money, I had no time for fun. My first paycheck went to my first car, which was my first adult home. My second paycheck paid for a crappy $99/week hotel (try that on for size). Up and away from there.
Your father found his place, cry me a freakin' river. Check's in the mail....
Your "working poor" wouldn't have any idea what to build, If people like MYSELF didn't bust my ass through school to TELL them. We tell the "working poor" what to build and how to build it. Period. Save your bleeding heart.
They would have nothing to build were it not for us, as they would not have jobs. We could not tell them what to build, if people could not afford to pay us to do so. See where this is going? Your trickle-up theory is moronic.
If we're telling sob stories:
Sorry your father couldn't accomplish in 40 years in his trade what I could after 8 years in mine, which was make a start for myself with NOTHING but experience, will, and a cheap computer.
I went hungry, I had no money, I had no time for fun. My first paycheck went to my first car, which was my first adult home. My second paycheck paid for a crappy $99/week hotel (try that on for size). Up and away from there.
We get what we EARN, deal with it.
Excuse makers piss me off...
So the poor wouldn't know what to do if it weren't for a guy like you...the utter disgust that you have for the poor is in itself disgusting..no compassion or logic in this argument...this started off about socialism but nobody has yet to answer digster's lenghty question about the flawed social structure...just bitch about how you hate the poor..they're lazy..smelly dumb people..blah blah blah..excuse makers piss you off...well you know what..ignorance really fucking pisses me off..
"Tonight we're just gonna play you some good old American Rock and Roll." tom petty-7-15-05
So the poor wouldn't know what to do if it weren't for a guy like you...the utter disgust that you have for the poor is in itself disgusting..no compassion or logic in this argument...this started off about socialism but nobody has yet to answer digster's lenghty question about the flawed social structure...just bitch about how you hate the poor..they're lazy..smelly dumb people..blah blah blah..excuse makers piss you off...well you know what..ignorance really fucking pisses me off..
The twisting socialists....
It is YOU who are insulting the poor, by believing the only way to NOT be poor is through forced wealth distribution. As if we have no control of our own lives.
We have options! We have free will! Be not poor! Better for everyone!
But Do it for yourself!!!! Don't act like you're the only one who's ever been shit on! We all have to put our balls on the table at one point or another.
All of the socialists arguments say that people cannot do for themselves. YOU INSULT US, and I will not be insulted by excuse makers.
Your father found his place, cry me a freakin' river. Check's in the mail....
Your "working poor" wouldn't have any idea what to build, If people like MYSELF didn't bust my ass through school to TELL them. We tell the "working poor" what to build and how to build it. Period. Save your bleeding heart.
They would have nothing to build were it not for us, as they would not have jobs. We could not tell them what to build, if people could not afford to pay us to do so. See where this is going? Your trickle-up theory is moronic.
If we're telling sob stories:
Sorry your father couldn't accomplish in 40 years in his trade what I could after 8 years in mine, which was make a start for myself with NOTHING but experience, will, and a cheap computer.
I went hungry, I had no money, I had no time for fun. My first paycheck went to my first car, which was my first adult home. My second paycheck paid for a crappy $99/week hotel (try that on for size). Up and away from there.
We get what we EARN, deal with it.
Excuse makers piss me off...
You really don't get it, do you? i think you may have left something out of your list of personal success building tools. "Experience, will, a cheap computer,"... a shriveled, blackened heart and a sincere drive to exploit the labor pool while laughing about it.
Furthermore, i think you have another thing backwards. Without the hardworking folks you shamelessly insult pouring out their blood, sweat and tears, its YOU that would be out of a job. Without people to exploit, you would STILL be living in that same fucking car.
One other thing i'm guessing is a typo. i think what you've been meaning to say is:
An Obama presidency is unAVOIDABLE.
Deal with it. Choke on it.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
My question is why does the guy telling the other guys what to do get paid more anyways? Isn't he doing less work? Oh yah, I forgot, he was privileged enough to have the money to go to college. Which of course means he's smarter than those of us whom haven't gone to college. I get it now
"In this cause I too am prepared to die. There is no cause for which I am prepared to kill" -Gandhi
thanks for keeping an open mind on that.
An Obama presidency is unacceptable.
You shouldn't thank me, because what I ended up finding out is far more damning to the McCain campaign's strategy then I thought.
So, you can receive a tax credit without paying federal income tax; the requirements are that you must file tax returns. Obviously, everyone who can get a tax credit is paying taxes on their Social Security and Medicare, so to say that they are not 'taxpayers' is a false statement. But the fact is that you can receive tax credits having not made a cent of federal income tax. And so far, it sounds like McCain's plan is right on the money; he's pressing fiscal conservatism while his opponent supports 'federal welfare.' Fine.
Until you look at McCain's tax policies. Remember that 5,000 tax credit McCain has been telling us all about regarding health care? He's brought it up in every debate, I think. Turns out, just as Obama's college affordability tax credit and Making Work Pay tax credits do not require taxpayers to be paying federal income tax to qualify, neither does Senator McCain's plan. So he is calling Senator Obama's tax credits "welfare" while his own tax credit o n health care also has no federal income tax qualification. And you can look here to see for yourself: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_welfare.html
So, I guess my new question is this;
1) Since Obama and McCain both support tax credits for people who do not pay federal income tax, aren't they therefore both socialists?
Plus my other questions;
2) Do you honestly believe social conditions have no bearing on the ability of an individual to develop his or her talents and intelligence?
3) You honestly believe that all poor people are poor because they are dumb, weak people who lack willpower?
You shouldn't thank me, because what I ended up finding out is far more damning to the McCain campaign's strategy then I thought.
So, you can receive a tax credit without paying federal income tax; the requirements are that you must file tax returns. Obviously, everyone who can get a tax credit is paying taxes on their Social Security and Medicare, so to say that they are not 'taxpayers' is a false statement. But the fact is that you can receive tax credits having not made a cent of federal income tax. And so far, it sounds like McCain's plan is right on the money; he's pressing fiscal conservatism while his opponent supports 'federal welfare.' Fine.
Until you look at McCain's tax policies. Remember that 5,000 tax credit McCain has been telling us all about regarding health care? He's brought it up in every debate, I think. Turns out, just as Obama's college affordability tax credit and Making Work Pay tax credits do not require taxpayers to be paying federal income tax to qualify, neither does Senator McCain's plan. So he is calling Senator Obama's tax credits "welfare" while his own tax credit o n health care also has no federal income tax qualification. And you can look here to see for yourself: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_welfare.html
So, I guess my new question is this;
1) Since Obama and McCain both support tax credits for people who do not pay federal income tax, aren't they therefore both socialists?
Plus my other questions;
2) Do you honestly believe social conditions have no bearing on the ability of an individual to develop his or her talents and intelligence?
3) You honestly believe that all poor people are poor because they are dumb, weak people who lack willpower?
C'mon, dude, of course not. But again, we do our best and we find our place. Were I more dilligent I could do more. Had I made better choices I'd have more oppurtunity. Effort really has no maximum.
If I had a trust fund....If my parents had bought me a car...had I been able to afford college...but that's cryin in your coffee there. I choose to man up and deal. My task, now that I am a father is to expedite the evolutionary process for my kids.
I will provide for my children more tools to succeed than my parents did me. And hopefully, they will evolve beyond me. And continue the progression for their children... that's how it's supposed to go. In the end, that's the only legacy we leave.
We all have to put our balls on the table at one point or another.All of the socialists arguments say that people cannot do for themselves. YOU INSULT US, and I will not be insulted by excuse makers.
You're missing a point here...there are some people who have advantages at birth that others don't. Some people never do have to put their balls on the table and that's what you're missing. Not everyone is given a fair and equal chance at trying to pull themselves up. I'm not even talking about welfare here my friend. We're talking about the advantages that some people will always have. Do you honestly think a person being born to a wholesome family that has money, is white, and educated is the same to a kid born in the projects to a 17 yr old with a drug problem. I know the example is extreme but you're missing the fact that the problem their facing isn't just a money issue. It's a social issue dealing with family upbringing, finanacial availibility, the quality of the schools availible, the neighborhood etc..
And answer me, is what the bush administration passed (the bailout) and buying banks socialism? If not please explain.
"Tonight we're just gonna play you some good old American Rock and Roll." tom petty-7-15-05
You're missing a point here...there are some people who have advantages at birth that others don't. Some people never do have to put their balls on the table and that's what you're missing. Not everyone is given a fair and equal chance at trying to pull themselves up. I'm not even talking about welfare here my friend. We're talking about the advantages that some people will always have. Do you honestly think a person being born to a wholesome family that has money, is white, and educated is the same to a kid born in the projects to a 17 yr old with a drug problem. I know the example is extreme but you're missing the fact that the problem their facing isn't just a money issue. It's a social issue dealing with family upbringing, finanacial availibility, the quality of the schools availible, the neighborhood etc..
And answer me, is what the bush administration passed (the bailout) and buying banks socialism? If not please explain.
Granted, but all the welfare programs in the world won't make anyone "born to a wholesome family that has money, is white, and educated" Sorry, this is a naive idea. We're just throwing good money after bad. This is my problem with increased socialism.
Yes, we're fucked with the bailout, I've been saying this all along. They're all fuck-tards for deliberately ignoring our will. I even started a post about it, with rep roll calls and contacts so we could all voice our displeasure about that. I support voting out ALL who voted for the bailout. I guess i could bump it...
Both candidates voted for the bailout.
A McCain president, to me, has four years to seriously get Teddy Roosevelt on that ass, or he's out too. Maybe still then, I'm so pissed.
The question is who is the better man in the 08 campaign?
You want to fix the financial mess you don't need to tax more. We need to STOP SPENDING MORE.
If you feel it is acceptable to tax people who work for a living more so that those who refuse to work can have more you are either too lazy to work or you are INSANE.
So, according to you, only people who earn more than $250k a year "work" for a living.
You are as much of a joke as the McCain/Palin ticket.
Second I would create training programs for people who are in poverty.
Third I would offer huge tax breaks to corporations to keep their manufacturing in the US. That iPod would no longer be made in China, and you would have someone who was on welfare now holding down a job. The company sees it as an even trade, and would benefit from the positive publicity of bringing their manufacturing back to the US. These people now have money to spend here, they are off welfare, and we have a company back to building a product in the United States of America.
It is a win win for everyone, well except for the Chinese. haha
I haven't read the rest of this thread so I expect someone has already raised this point but I just want to point out something that doesn't make sense to me - you've said several times that people should stop spending, or "unnecessary spending", yet your key concerns are for the small businesses. Don't you think that if people stopped spending a lot of those small businesses will go under? Also bringing ipod manufacturing back to the US may give US workers jobs but if people don't spend "unnecessarily" (Ie: on luxury items like ipods) then it still won't work. Giving companies big tax breaks is not going to stimulate the economy, especially an economy that is wholly dependent on people spending money. Is this what you want because it doesn't make sense to me!
"We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan --- London, Brixton, 14 July 1993 London, Wembley, 1996 London, Wembley, 18 June 2007 London, O2, 18 August 2009 London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012 Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
If they are not working I can understand because of the economy right now. I'm for helping people who need it I don't think it is too much to have them take drug tests first. That is not unreasonable. As a taxpayer I'd like to know that I'm not funding an addict who continues to abuse drugs.
Does that include spending government handouts on alcohol and tobacco, or just the hard drugs?
"We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan --- London, Brixton, 14 July 1993 London, Wembley, 1996 London, Wembley, 18 June 2007 London, O2, 18 August 2009 London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012 Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
Your father found his place, cry me a freakin' river. Check's in the mail....
Your "working poor" wouldn't have any idea what to build, If people like MYSELF didn't bust my ass through school to TELL them. We tell the "working poor" what to build and how to build it. Period. Save your bleeding heart.
They would have nothing to build were it not for us, as they would not have jobs. We could not tell them what to build, if people could not afford to pay us to do so. See where this is going? Your trickle-up theory is moronic.
If we're telling sob stories:
Sorry your father couldn't accomplish in 40 years in his trade what I could after 8 years in mine, which was make a start for myself with NOTHING but experience, will, and a cheap computer.
I went hungry, I had no money, I had no time for fun. My first paycheck went to my first car, which was my first adult home. My second paycheck paid for a crappy $99/week hotel (try that on for size). Up and away from there.
We get what we EARN, deal with it.
Excuse makers piss me off...
It saddens me to no end to know that we, as a society, haven't evolved past such self-righteous hatred. But it comforts me to know that there's a special place in hell for people like you.
It saddens me to no end to know that we, as a society, haven't evolved past such self-righteous hatred. But it comforts me to know that there's a special place in hell for people like you.
this is what the globalist socialist is reduced to, after all his arguments have failed to convince the sound mind...
would be ideologues take note of the lack of reason.
this is what the globalist socialist is reduced to, after all his arguments have failed to convince the sound mind...
would be ideologues take note of the lack of reason.
Comments
Please do - and report back to us.
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
"Lack of compassion"
It's not the government's job to mandate "compassion". In fact, government redistribution isn't compassion at all-it's force and theft. True compassion involves the individual generously investing in the lives of other people. I trust the good intentions and generosity of the American people more than I do Washington bureaucrats.
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
When 1% of the world owns 40% of its resources, seems to be a problem. Add inflation, lack of increase in minumum wage since 1970 or so, Reagan's neoliberal (socialist) policies, and the resulting increase in the number of people below the pverty line-while CEO's are now making 500 times the salary of an average worker, and yeah, we definitely have a problem.
welath has been going up for decades, time to bring it back down where it belongs, into the hands of the people that actually do all the work and run this country.
Sure we could keep this fascism, but I prefer freedom...but that's just me.
So, as usual, the truth is much knottier than I thought it was originally. You can actually, in fact, receive a tax credit having not paid an federal income tax; I didn't think that was possible (obviously, you cannot get a tax cut). However, McCain says that the credits will be going to those who do not pay federal income taxes will get the money, while Obama says that it will be taxpayers who receive the tax credit.
So it's not as clear-cut as I thought; it just means one of the top two candidates for our nation's highest office is outright lying. Ugh. Factcheck, here I come.
thanks for keeping an open mind on that.
An Obama presidency is unacceptable.
The owners may not pay themselves more than $250k a year but when you are a small business owner the income from the business is considered your income and that could be over 250k Hence the Joe the Plumber debate.
First of all the term "liberal" is a bit offensive to me. i really prefer "pinko shitbag". From now on please address me as such.
That being said, it is the working poor that built this country, and it is the working poor that keep it running. Spare me the "up by your bootstraps" nonsense.
Great...I don't make a lot, so I'll PM you my address and you can send me part of your pay check..
pinko shitbag (since you insist):
the working poor are not the only people who help build this country.
Architects, Engineers, and Contractors actually BUILD this country in the literal sense. Pluimbers, electricians....not "poor people"
save it, learn something.
First of all, i said "built", not "build". Regardless, Architects, engineers, and contractors don't actually build shit, if we're splitting hairs. Plumbers, electricians, carpenters, in some cases, its true may not be "poor", depending on one's operational definition of "poor", but i don't know too many making the 250 thousand we've been discussing. Not even Joe. Far from it actually. My dear father, for example, is a tradesman with give or take a few, about 40 years in. Now, a couple years out from retirement, worry still keeps him up at night. And they're the ones doing all the work while the contractors you mention line their pockets with dollars stained with the sweat and blood of the aforementioned workhorses.
Furthermore the folks we've discussed thus far may "build", in the literal sense, the fact remains that this country would be absolutely unsustainable without the millions of HARDWORKING folks struggling to put meat on the table and keep the lights on. Your "get an education and make better life choices argument is SHIT.
Your "working poor" wouldn't have any idea what to build, If people like MYSELF didn't bust my ass through school to TELL them. We tell the "working poor" what to build and how to build it. Period. Save your bleeding heart.
They would have nothing to build were it not for us, as they would not have jobs. We could not tell them what to build, if people could not afford to pay us to do so. See where this is going? Your trickle-up theory is moronic.
If we're telling sob stories:
Sorry your father couldn't accomplish in 40 years in his trade what I could after 8 years in mine, which was make a start for myself with NOTHING but experience, will, and a cheap computer.
I went hungry, I had no money, I had no time for fun. My first paycheck went to my first car, which was my first adult home. My second paycheck paid for a crappy $99/week hotel (try that on for size). Up and away from there.
We get what we EARN, deal with it.
Excuse makers piss me off...
So the poor wouldn't know what to do if it weren't for a guy like you...the utter disgust that you have for the poor is in itself disgusting..no compassion or logic in this argument...this started off about socialism but nobody has yet to answer digster's lenghty question about the flawed social structure...just bitch about how you hate the poor..they're lazy..smelly dumb people..blah blah blah..excuse makers piss you off...well you know what..ignorance really fucking pisses me off..
The twisting socialists....
It is YOU who are insulting the poor, by believing the only way to NOT be poor is through forced wealth distribution. As if we have no control of our own lives.
We have options! We have free will! Be not poor! Better for everyone!
But Do it for yourself!!!! Don't act like you're the only one who's ever been shit on! We all have to put our balls on the table at one point or another.
All of the socialists arguments say that people cannot do for themselves. YOU INSULT US, and I will not be insulted by excuse makers.
You really don't get it, do you? i think you may have left something out of your list of personal success building tools. "Experience, will, a cheap computer,"... a shriveled, blackened heart and a sincere drive to exploit the labor pool while laughing about it.
Furthermore, i think you have another thing backwards. Without the hardworking folks you shamelessly insult pouring out their blood, sweat and tears, its YOU that would be out of a job. Without people to exploit, you would STILL be living in that same fucking car.
One other thing i'm guessing is a typo. i think what you've been meaning to say is:
An Obama presidency is unAVOIDABLE.
Deal with it. Choke on it.
Iraq Veterans Against the War
www.ivaw.org
You shouldn't thank me, because what I ended up finding out is far more damning to the McCain campaign's strategy then I thought.
So, you can receive a tax credit without paying federal income tax; the requirements are that you must file tax returns. Obviously, everyone who can get a tax credit is paying taxes on their Social Security and Medicare, so to say that they are not 'taxpayers' is a false statement. But the fact is that you can receive tax credits having not made a cent of federal income tax. And so far, it sounds like McCain's plan is right on the money; he's pressing fiscal conservatism while his opponent supports 'federal welfare.' Fine.
Until you look at McCain's tax policies. Remember that 5,000 tax credit McCain has been telling us all about regarding health care? He's brought it up in every debate, I think. Turns out, just as Obama's college affordability tax credit and Making Work Pay tax credits do not require taxpayers to be paying federal income tax to qualify, neither does Senator McCain's plan. So he is calling Senator Obama's tax credits "welfare" while his own tax credit o n health care also has no federal income tax qualification. And you can look here to see for yourself: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_welfare.html
So, I guess my new question is this;
1) Since Obama and McCain both support tax credits for people who do not pay federal income tax, aren't they therefore both socialists?
Plus my other questions;
2) Do you honestly believe social conditions have no bearing on the ability of an individual to develop his or her talents and intelligence?
3) You honestly believe that all poor people are poor because they are dumb, weak people who lack willpower?
C'mon, dude, of course not. But again, we do our best and we find our place. Were I more dilligent I could do more. Had I made better choices I'd have more oppurtunity. Effort really has no maximum.
If I had a trust fund....If my parents had bought me a car...had I been able to afford college...but that's cryin in your coffee there. I choose to man up and deal. My task, now that I am a father is to expedite the evolutionary process for my kids.
I will provide for my children more tools to succeed than my parents did me. And hopefully, they will evolve beyond me. And continue the progression for their children... that's how it's supposed to go. In the end, that's the only legacy we leave.
You're missing a point here...there are some people who have advantages at birth that others don't. Some people never do have to put their balls on the table and that's what you're missing. Not everyone is given a fair and equal chance at trying to pull themselves up. I'm not even talking about welfare here my friend. We're talking about the advantages that some people will always have. Do you honestly think a person being born to a wholesome family that has money, is white, and educated is the same to a kid born in the projects to a 17 yr old with a drug problem. I know the example is extreme but you're missing the fact that the problem their facing isn't just a money issue. It's a social issue dealing with family upbringing, finanacial availibility, the quality of the schools availible, the neighborhood etc..
And answer me, is what the bush administration passed (the bailout) and buying banks socialism? If not please explain.
Granted, but all the welfare programs in the world won't make anyone "born to a wholesome family that has money, is white, and educated" Sorry, this is a naive idea. We're just throwing good money after bad. This is my problem with increased socialism.
Yes, we're fucked with the bailout, I've been saying this all along. They're all fuck-tards for deliberately ignoring our will. I even started a post about it, with rep roll calls and contacts so we could all voice our displeasure about that. I support voting out ALL who voted for the bailout. I guess i could bump it...
Both candidates voted for the bailout.
A McCain president, to me, has four years to seriously get Teddy Roosevelt on that ass, or he's out too. Maybe still then, I'm so pissed.
The question is who is the better man in the 08 campaign?
You are as much of a joke as the McCain/Palin ticket.
I haven't read the rest of this thread so I expect someone has already raised this point but I just want to point out something that doesn't make sense to me - you've said several times that people should stop spending, or "unnecessary spending", yet your key concerns are for the small businesses. Don't you think that if people stopped spending a lot of those small businesses will go under? Also bringing ipod manufacturing back to the US may give US workers jobs but if people don't spend "unnecessarily" (Ie: on luxury items like ipods) then it still won't work. Giving companies big tax breaks is not going to stimulate the economy, especially an economy that is wholly dependent on people spending money. Is this what you want because it doesn't make sense to me!
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London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
London, Wembley, 1996
London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
London, O2, 18 August 2009
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
Does that include spending government handouts on alcohol and tobacco, or just the hard drugs?
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London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
London, Wembley, 1996
London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
London, O2, 18 August 2009
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
It saddens me to no end to know that we, as a society, haven't evolved past such self-righteous hatred. But it comforts me to know that there's a special place in hell for people like you.
*shudder*
this is what the globalist socialist is reduced to, after all his arguments have failed to convince the sound mind...
would be ideologues take note of the lack of reason.