Burma: Thousands dead in massacre of the monks dumped in the jungle

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  • Flannel Shirt
    Flannel Shirt Posts: 1,021
    Someone has got to do something.
    Has GW said anything or any member of his cabinet? What is the United States doing?
    All that's sacred, comes from youth....dedications, naive and true.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Flannel Shirt wrote:
    Someone has got to do something.
    Has GW said anything or any member of his cabinet? What is the United States doing?

    They imposed more sanctions on 14 of the most senior members of the Burmese government. It restricts them from doing any business with a US based corporation or a US national and freezes any of their assests that may be in a US bank. So basically nothing.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Flannel Shirt wrote:
    Someone has got to do something.
    Has GW said anything or any member of his cabinet? What is the United States doing?

    the US is calling for the UN to do something. will it?
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    the problem with boycotts is it hardly makes a sent without a good PR machine. nike took many hits for the child slave labor thing a few years back. i could close my bank of america account and say why but nobody in the business will know or care and unless they lose several thousand customers, it's not going to hurt their bottom line much, certainly not enough to outweigh the added business from prime time olympic advertising. what you need is a coordinated effort to smear the companies and that is hard to do on an issue like this. it was easy when nike was directly exploiting kids... you clearly see their hand and it's an emotional issue everyone can get behind. but this is more complex... you have china meddling with burma, olympics in china, sponsors of the olympics, and you're going after the sponsors... that's a tough sell to people, especially in america where most people get little news and then only soundbytes. many would struggle to see how closing their bank of america account has any relation to atrocity in burma so it'd difficult to convince them that taking action is going to be effective or that hurting bank of america for actions taken by the chinese is fair or reasonable. it would take a huge coordinated campaign and i doubt it would be any more effective than the ads that tried to convince us all that smoking pot is supporting terrorism.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    mammasan wrote:
    Fact sheet on the support that China offers Burma

    http://www.uscampaignforburma.org/action/ChinaBurmaInfoSheet.pdf

    thats so wrong. maybe this will expose china for the scumbags that they are. we'll see if the usual america haters around here will actually notice that someone is bad in the world other then the US.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    jlew24asu wrote:
    the US is calling for the UN to do something. will it?

    No. The US and the other members of the UN Security Council want to take action but China keeps vetoing any resolution that is brought forward. Since China is one of the permanent members states in the Security Council it's veto kills any resolution.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    mammasan wrote:
    No. The US and the other members of the UN Security Council want to take action but China keeps vetoing any resolution that is brought forward. Since China is one of the permanent members states in the Security Council it's veto kills any resolution.

    o. you're right. I forgot about the ridiculous voting situation on the SN. what a joke. I will not be watching the Olympics
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    soulsinging wrote:
    we didn't lift a finger to help those people either though. we went to iraq 10 years later and it had nothing to do with genocide.

    we (the US) helped oppress the people of iraq

    that is well documented and factual
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    soulsinging wrote:
    the problem with boycotts is it hardly makes a sent without a good PR machine. nike took many hits for the child slave labor thing a few years back. i could close my bank of america account and say why but nobody in the business will know or care and unless they lose several thousand customers, it's not going to hurt their bottom line much, certainly not enough to outweigh the added business from prime time olympic advertising. what you need is a coordinated effort to smear the companies and that is hard to do on an issue like this. it was easy when nike was directly exploiting kids... you clearly see their hand and it's an emotional issue everyone can get behind. but this is more complex... you have china meddling with burma, olympics in china, sponsors of the olympics, and you're going after the sponsors... that's a tough sell to people, especially in america where most people get little news and then only soundbytes. many would struggle to see how closing their bank of america account has any relation to atrocity in burma so it'd difficult to convince them that taking action is going to be effective or that hurting bank of america for actions taken by the chinese is fair or reasonable. it would take a huge coordinated campaign and i doubt it would be any more effective than the ads that tried to convince us all that smoking pot is supporting terrorism.

    We can't influence the Chinese government ourselves so the best we can hope to accomplish it to influence the corporate sponsors of the Olympics and then maybe they will influence the US to withdraw from the Olympics. I know it's a stretch but it's the best we can do.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    mammasan wrote:
    I think a boycott of the Olympics is a great idea

    i was doing that way before this...
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    mammasan wrote:
    We can't influence the Chinese government ourselves so the best we can hope to accomplish it to influence the corporate sponsors of the Olympics and then maybe they will influence the US to withdraw from the Olympics. I know it's a stretch but it's the best we can do.

    im just saying a good PR campaign is crucial and far more important than getting numbers behind your cause.
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    mammasan wrote:
    Maybe you need to take a look at history.

    They hate us because of our intervention in their affairs. Shah of Iran ring a bell. We have been meddling in Middle Eastern affairs since WW II. We support corrupt governments over there simply because they cater to our needs. We orchestrate coups to over-throw democratically elected governments to insert corrupt oppressive regimes that will cater to our demands. It has nothing to do with our religious beliefs or our freedoms. Our religious beliefs and the tenets of our democracy have been in place for over 200 years, why all of a sudden do they hate us. Why not hate us from the beginning. It is because for the first 150+ years we did not aggressively pursue a foreign policy of intervention. Since WW II we decided that we have the right to intervene whenever and where ever it is beneficial to us regardless of what the regions people or government has to say. It has nothing to do with the misguided belief that they want to destroy us because our women don't where burqas or because we are Christians.


    THE BEST POST I HAVE EVER SEEN ON THE MESSAGE PIT...BRAVO!!!
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    soulsinging wrote:
    im just saying a good PR campaign is crucial and far more important than getting numbers behind your cause.

    Well that is why I have starting a writing campaign to organizations like Amnesty International to see if they taking the same course of action. I myself can't start a grassroots program but I can help get the word out about one that has already been organized.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    gue_barium wrote:
    That's what I think. You've got the massacre of 3,000 in 1988, so you have nearly 20 years to re-think the strategy. Ah, thousands of protesters again, perfect, you know exactly the reaction it's going to bring. So...
    Don't be a fucking martyr. Fight the fuck back.
    I'm not down on the monks, they did their part, but there should have been, among those thousands participating in the wings, those willing to take up arms and do some fighting back.


    sticks, stones, and small arms against a government military?

    that wont work. when i gorilla is fighting a child, it is up to the gorilla to show restraint
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    mammasan wrote:
    If countries started pulling out of the Olympics I think the Chinese government would act on Burma.

    i agree

    2008 is china's opportunity to showcase itself to the world
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    mammasan wrote:
    Coca-Cola Company
    Atos Origin
    Eastman Kodak
    GE
    John Hancock
    Johnson & Johnson
    Lenovo
    McDonald's
    Omega
    Panasonic
    Samsung
    Visa
    Anheuser-Busch
    AT&T
    Bank of America
    General Motors
    Home Depot
    Allstate
    Hilton Hotels
    Jet Set Sports
    Kellogg's
    Nike
    24 Hour Fitness
    Tyson Foods
    United Airlines

    i assume these companies have strong ties to china/burma?
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    jlew24asu wrote:
    thanks. I'm stuck with b of a and allstate. the rest I can do

    no your not, 1 phone call and 2 keystrokes and you could stop all business with them
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    The most senior official to defect so far, Hla Win, said: "Many more people have been killed in recent days than you've heard about. The bodies can be counted in several thousand."


    Mr Win said he fled when he was ordered to take part in a massacre of holy men.


    i am a peaceful man, but i would gladly take the life of each and every person responsible for these atrocities and suppression

    makes me literally sick to read
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    my2hands wrote:
    no your not, 1 phone call and 2 keystrokes and you could stop all business with them

    that's a lot of effort for something that will have zero impact in terms of stopping anything in burma. it's not that simple. that money has to be moved and insurance shifted. that takes more than one phone call and 2 keystrokes.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    my2hands wrote:
    i assume these companies have strong ties to china/burma?

    No these are the sponsors of the US Olympic Team.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul

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