Is all religion basically the same?

deadnothingbetter

Cosmo wrote:

...
Leviticus 20
10: And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
11: And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them

well, these really make an entirely different point... but i see what you're saying.

Cosmo

deadnothingbetter wrote:

well, these really make an entirely different point... but i see what you're saying.

...
I'm NOT saying Christians are murderers. I'm simply saying that Holy Text DO include passages saying it is okay to kill people who violate their texts. That simply pretending these words do not exist doesn't make them go away.

even flow?

Cosmo wrote:

...
Leviticus 20
10: And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
11: And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them

Deuteronomy 13
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

There are MANY more references... if you need them.

Well from where I sit, I think the yawn has been answered.

deadnothingbetter

Cosmo wrote:

...
I'm NOT saying Christians are murderers. I'm simply saying that Holy Text DO include passages saying it is okay to kill people who violate their texts. That simply pretending these words do not exist doesn't make them go away.

no, i mean, i totally agree with you. you're absolutely right.


although of course these texts were written for other reasons than most think.

Uncle Leo

deadnothingbetter wrote:

who is Fanch?

The person you responded to in post 39

(Fanch75)

Cosmo

even flow? wrote:

Well from where I sit, I think the yawn has been answered.

...
I think people don't understand me. Yeah... i am a Heathen... someone with no religion. That's because I WAS a Christian and I had all of these questions....whose answers lead to only more confusion. I guess the whole trip is to keep you confused so you simply accept the canned interpretation.

onelongsong

ArmsinaV wrote:

In other words, do the larger world religions basically ask the same of people and, if followed in a positive way, do they result in essentially the same thing?

yes; all rivers lead to the sea. the problem here is a few thousand years ago; people talked and taught differently. the best way to pass information was to create a story so it could be told and handed down. very few knew how to read and write so this was the only way to communicate.

deadnothingbetter

Uncle Leo wrote:

The person you responded to in post 39

(Fanch75)

oh... ok, that cleared up a lot of confusion from your original question which was... does the bible contradict fanch's beliefs? which my answer was, well, yes.

cornnifer

even flow? wrote:

Well from where I sit, I think the yawn has been answered.

Well, not really. Sound bite references from the Old testament book of Leviticus aren't nearly enough to make a case that the the Bible or Bible based faith encourages and condones ruthless killing. i guess we're forgetting that "thou shalt not kill" part.
Furthermore when placed in context of history and geography when and where folks were banging anything that moved, man, woman or beast, and when mixed in with the fact that the Bible also makes the claim that the wages of ALL sin is death, not just sexual debauchery, and we have a bit more context and perspective. Factor in the concept of Old and New covenant (i don't want to get to deep into theology) and what you end up with likens citing a couple of Leviticus verses to randomly, with eyes shut, putting a finger down on one sentence from chapter five of "War and Peace" and using it to summarize the entire works of Tolstoy.
You're going to have to butress an argument with a little more than that to convince any rational person that the Bible encourages cold hearted killing.
In summation... *yawn*.

edit: i've not encountered one SERIOUS bible teaching church or synogogue that encourages members of congregation to go forth and stone an adultress.

even flow?

cornnifer wrote:

Well, not really. Sound bite references from the Old testament book of Leviticus aren't nearly enough to make a case that the the Bible or Bible based faith encourages and condones ruthless killing. i guess we're forgetting that "thou shalt not kill" part.
Furthermore when placed in context of history and geography when and where folks were banging anything that moved, man, woman or beast, and when mixed in with the fact that the Bible also makes the claim that the wages of ALL sin is death, not just sexual debauchery, and we have a bit more context and perspective. Factor in the concept of Old and New covenant (i don't want to get to deep into theology) and what you end up with likens citing a couple of Leviticus verses to randomly, with eyes shut, putting a finger down on one sentence from chapter five of "War and Peace" and using it to summarize the entire works of Tolstoy.
You're going to have to butress an argument with a little more than that to convince any rational person that the Bible encourages cold hearted killing.
In summation... *yawn*.

edit: i've not encountered one SERIOUS bible teaching church or synogogue that encourages members of congregation to go forth and stone an adultress.

He pointed it out. Period.

fanch75

cornnifer wrote:

edit: i've not encountered one SERIOUS bible teaching church or synogogue that encourages members of congregation to go forth and stone an adultress.

To make a lighter point, I remember in a lit class in college we read soem story about a woman being stoned to death for adultery.

During the discussion, this stoner chick raised her hand and says:

"I can think of a better way to get stoned!"

True story. I couldn't make up something like that if I tried.

cornnifer

fanch75 wrote:

To make a lighter point, I remember in a lit class in college we read soem story about a woman being stoned to death for adultery.

During the discussion, this stoner chick raised her hand and says:

"I can think of a better way to get stoned!"

True story. I couldn't make up something like that if I tried.

cornnifer

even flow? wrote:

He pointed it out. Period.

He used the same old technique of pulling a copule of well worn old testament verses, completely removing them from time, place and context in an effort to make ridiculous claims.
*yawn... can't... keep... eyes... open...*

deadnothingbetter

cornnifer wrote:

He used the same old technique of pulling a copule of well worn old testament verses, completely removing them from time, place and context in an effort to make ridiculous claims.
*yawn... can't... keep... eyes... open...*

not to sound like a dick... but yeah, a lot of "unbelievers" always use that "technique" as if it will mean anything. i can't think of a nicer way to say that it doesn't matter.

RainDog

cornnifer wrote:

*yawn... can't... keep... eyes... open...*

Well no wonder you can't see the passages in the Bible that condone killing.

You asked for one example. More than that was provided. If you want to discuss context and interpretation, that's one thing; but you cannot deny that there are passages, many passages, in the Bible that state exactly what you claimed it didn't state.

deadnothingbetter

RainDog wrote:

Well no wonder you can't see the passages in the Bible that condone killing.

You asked for one example. More than that was provided. If you want to discuss context and interpretation, that's one thing; but you cannot deny that there are passages, many passages, in the Bible that state exactly what you claimed it didn't state.

you're absolutely right about that though

even flow?

cornnifer wrote:

He used the same old technique of pulling a copule of well worn old testament verses, completely removing them from time, place and context in an effort to make ridiculous claims.
*yawn... can't... keep... eyes... open...*

If they are removing them from a time, place, yawn, etc. Then why exactly are you telling me about a book from at least 2000 years ago that has no relevence or bearing on the modern world what so ever. Maybe your boy Jesus needs to come back and revamp it then if the teachings don't hold water when you are in the discussion.

cornnifer

RainDog wrote:

Well no wonder you can't see the passages in the Bible that condone killing.

You asked for one example. More than that was provided. If you want to discuss context and interpretation, that's one thing; but you cannot deny that there are passages, many passages, in the Bible that state exactly what you claimed it didn't state.

What was provided were a couple of soundbites taken out of context. There IS no discussion without context. It's like when the news media airs one carefully selected sentence taken from an hour long interview and completely changes the meaning of a person's statements. Its an old trick that means nothing.

RainDog

deadnothingbetter wrote:

you're absolutely right about that though

The thing is, us "unbelievers" understand context, and many do look at the Bible in an historical frame. However, and I'm not sure cornifer has ever done this or not, we will also throw out passages like that when similar measures are used against us. Leviticus and Deuteronomy are ripe for these types of back-and-forths:
CRAZED BELIEVER: Gays are an abomonation!!
FROTHING UNBELIEVER: SO ARE SHELLFISH!!!

CRAZED BELIEVER: Women must be subservient to their husbands!!
FROTHING UNBELIEVER: Or be stoned to death!!

And on and on for eternity. From my end, it's more a comment on why individual passages shouldn't be used to push a belief.

Except for my response to cornifer. That was more of a logic thing.

cornnifer

even flow? wrote:

Maybe your boy Jesus needs to come back and revamp it then if the teachings don't hold water when you are in the discussion.

My boy Jesus already DID that.