Very true. So then the question is, would a "good" parent allow their child to listen to MM or other negative music?
not that i'm a fan of Marilyn Manson or his music. but I would not have cared if either of my kids had ever wanted to listen to it. it's not as if they had listened to his music that they would've grabbed a gun and headed to school to shoot the place up. a good parent doesn't censor the music that their kid listens to. this kid was fucked up, he'd would've been regardless of the music he listened to.
since when do you get to decide what is considered "negative music?"
Im not sure there is a "chase" however parenting is an enormous social ill. Far too many people today renig on their responsibility as parents and this causes a host of problems to the community as a whole.
Did you question the other posters as to why they involved parenting in their comment? What are you looking for?
That sounds about as generalized as anything else you have said, Juberoo. What I'm getting at and asking for is, what is your personal experience in this matter insomuch it as at the crux of so much of your argument?
I am not this Juberoo person so stop comparing me to him.
My personal experience is that I deal with the after effects of this "matter" when these same parents lose control over their children because they were too self absorbed and uneducated to raise them properly.
Ineffective or absent parenting is to blame. Not the schools, not the doctors, not the other students, not the government etc.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
I am not this Juberoo person so stop comparing me to him.
My personal experience is that I deal with the after effects of this "matter" when these same parents lose control over their children because they were too self absorbed and uneducated to raise them properly.
Ineffective or absent parenting is to blame. Not the schools, not the doctors, not the other students, not the government etc.
What is insane is that you fail to see the connection.
you said "parenting is an enormous social ill" perhaps if you had said that "bad parenting is an enormous social ill" you'd at least make a little sense. but you can't not blame everything on parenting good or bad...there are many social ills that have nothing to do with how good or bad one's parents are/were.
you said "parenting is an enormous social ill" perhaps if you had said that "bad parenting is an enormous social ill" you'd at least make a little sense. but you can't not blame everything on parenting good or bad...there are many social ills that have nothing to do with how good or bad one's parents are/were.
yes that is true, I should have clarified "bad parenting".
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
LOL oh quite the contrary, I see plenty of insanity here
You realize that's the romance in your head, don't you?
I don't mean the candlelit dinner date thing. I mean the era. The era in the history of literature and fiction. It lives with us still. I don't knock it. I do say it's mostly fiction. Media becomes us. It has for thousands of years. It's in the storytelling. You're a storyteller, as am I. I'm citing the influence of your prediliction to the romantic philosophy.
Ok - I'm a long way removed from being 14 - but I can guarandamntee you that there was no way my parents could have stopped me from listening to any music that I wanted to hear. And that was waaay back in the day before Ipods and music downloads. I'd take my transistor radio, shove it in my pocket, hide under the stairs and let the good times roll. Hell, I even had access to one of them new fangled tape recorders. I'd place the mic right by the radio speaker and tape all the bad evil mind altering rock I could get my hands on.
Parents - clue phone - you can't stop kids from playing games and listening to music that you find offensive. Why do you think they do it - cause it pisses you off!!!!! But the music/games isn't what sends them off the deep end to commit murder. These are just a convenient place to lay the blame.
Anyone who would knowingly take the life of another human being is deeply troubled and more than likely would have committed these acts with or without evil games/music.
Maybe it's the news media's obsessive coverage of school killings that gives birth to these kid's twisted ideas.
Well, I'm off to light candles and worship at my Eddie Vedder altar. Look out, I might hug a tree to death:)
You realize that's the romance in your head, don't you?
I don't mean the candlelit dinner date thing. I mean the era. The era in the history of literature and fiction. It lives with us still. I don't knock it. I do say it's mostly fiction. Media becomes us. It has for thousands of years. It's in the storytelling. You're a storyteller, as am I. I'm citing the influence of your prediliction to the romantic philosophy.
or...it could be my background in psychology! :rolleyes:
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
or...it could be my background in psychology! :rolleyes:
And psychology reared its head into the mainstream through the efforts of a hedonistic sexpot named Freud. Romance, the fiction and literary philosophy, is most likely rooted in Hedonism.
Where's Finsbury when you need him? My instincts are phenomenol, I just don't have the schoolin.
Ok - I'm a long way removed from being 14 - but I can guarandamntee you that there was no way my parents could have stopped me from listening to any music that I wanted to hear. And that was waaay back in the day before Ipods and music downloads. I'd take my transistor radio, shove it in my pocket, hide under the stairs and let the good times roll. Hell, I even had access to one of them new fangled tape recorders. I'd place the mic right by the radio speaker and tape all the bad evil mind altering rock I could get my hands on.
Parents - clue phone - you can't stop kids from playing games and listening to music that you find offensive. Why do you think they do it - cause it pisses you off!!!!! But the music/games isn't what sends them off the deep end to commit murder. These are just a convenient place to lay the blame.
Anyone who would knowingly take the life of another human being is deeply troubled and more than likely would have committed these acts with or without evil games/music. Negative influences desensitize them.
Maybe it's the news media's obsessive coverage of school killings that gives birth to these kid's twisted ideas.
Well, I'm off to light candles and worship at my Eddie Vedder altar. Look out, I might hug a tree to death:)
Which is a wonderful point. Media is providing the catalyst these "troubled" children need to "go off the deep end".
Tell me, from a psychological standpoint, what do things like violence/drugs/rape/criminal activity/etc. in movies, music, books etc. do for the human psyche? How do they benefit a person? Of what use is their content?
When put into the perspective that power of suggestion draws people to certain behaviors, certainly you can see their negative influence. Even the most healthy of minds is affected.
Just as a child exhibits what they live in their family life, they exhibit what they feed their minds. Every experience a child has in life molds their personality. It presents them with ideas. Plants seeds of thought.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
I blame the Transformers movie. Damn machines fighting and killing each other....talking in a robotic tone. I'm shocked there hasnt been more school violence because of those bastardos.
Which is a wonderful point. Media is providing the catalyst these "troubled" children need to "go off the deep end".
Tell me, from a psychological standpoint, what do things like violence/drugs/rape/criminal activity/etc. in movies, music, books etc. do for the human psyche? How do they benefit a person? Of what use is their content?
When put into the perspective that power of suggestion draws people to certain behaviors, certainly you can see their negative influence. Even the most healthy of minds is affected.
Just as a child exhibits what they live in their family life, they exhibit what they feed their minds. Every experience a child has in life molds their personality. It presents them with ideas. Plants seeds of thought.
It may present a kid with ideas, however, I have seen that even the most maladjusted kids are quite aware of the difference between reality and TV. The malady isn't within the ideas the kids are getting from sub-standard run-of-the-mill television/media programming, it is in the fact that media and television has become a babysitter to a generation of children. Their own creativite ideas are sound. It is the absenteeism created by the fact that both parents have to work sustain a family that is the by-product of the rhetoric of which you espouse. You, and that rhetoric are contributing to the problem. It is the times we live in.
I dislike your fingerpointing attitude immensley. As if it is crime to want to raise a family this day and age. It is a sacrifice now, beyond belief for the working men and women of this country. Why are those that put muscle into their living being punished? Why are those with the dirty jobs that are necessary for a community to thrive being paid the lowest wages and paying the highest rent?
It may present a kid with ideas, however, I have seen that even the most maladjusted kids are quite aware of the difference between reality and TV. The malady isn't within the ideas the kids are getting from sub-standard run-of-the-mill television/media programming, it is in the fact that media and television has become a babysitter to a generation of children. Their own creativite ideas are sound. It is the absenteeism created by the fact that both parents have to work sustain a family that is the by-product of the rhetoric of which you espouse. You, and that rhetoric are contributing to the problem. It is the times we live in.
I dislike your fingerpointing attitude immensley. As if it is crime to want to raise a family this day and age. It is a sacrifice now, beyond belief for the working men and women of this country. Why are those that put muscle into their living being punished? Why are those with the dirty jobs that are necessary for a community to thrive being paid the lowest wages and paying the highest rent?
Which is why there needs to be acceptance of the reality that society as a whole needs to go back to the concept of actually "raising" their family. That means the knowledge and responsibility to make good choices. Including an honest assessment of the benefit to having children in the first place if you as the parent cannot provide a positive, loving, warm, thriving environment to "raise" them in.
Furthermore, I disagree with the comment that hard workers are "punished". Are you insinuating that they should be given less responsibility in regards to parenting because they make less money? That is putting them in a light of intellectual ignorance which we both know doesn't necessarily equate with poverty. Being poor doesnt mean we should generalize accross the board that they are inherently "bad parents" or "less capable". It does mean however that they have to live up to their choices. If they choose to have children, they don't get to live by a different set of standards in regards raising of children.
All kids need specific things in their lives in order to thrive in a positive manner. Being rich, poor, white, black, short, tall or otherwise doesn't factor into this reality.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
Which is why there needs to be acceptance of the reality that society as a whole needs to go back to the concept of actually "raising" their family. That means the knowledge and responsibility to make good choices. Including an honest assessment of the benefit to having children in the first place if you as the parent cannot provide a positive, loving, warm, thriving environment to "raise" them in.
Furthermore, I disagree with the comment that hard workers are "punished". Are you insinuating that they should be given less responsibility in regards to parenting because they make less money? That is putting them in a light of intellectual ignorance which we both know doesn't necessarily equate with poverty. Being poor doesnt mean we should generalize accross the board that they are inherently "bad parents" or "less capable". It does mean however that they have to live up to their choices. If they choose to have children, they don't get to live by a different set of standards in regards raising of children.
All kids need specific things in their lives in order to thrive in a positive manner. Being rich, poor, white, black, short, tall or otherwise doesn't factor into this reality.
You missed the whole idea.
Less time to spend as a family is what I was getting at. That is the reality of trying to raise a family from the bottom up in this day and age.
You know the old saying, money doesn't grow on trees. Meeting a mate you want to raise a family together with faces the reality in the structures that exist that: you either castrate yourself from the idea from raising a family because it isn't economically feasible, or give it the best you can with the money you have because this opportunity is unlikely to come around again anytime soon.
You missed the whole idea.
Less time to spend as a family is what I was getting at. That is the reality of trying to raise a family from the bottom up in this day and age.
You know the old saying, money doesn't grow on trees. Meeting a mate you want to raise a family together with faces the reality in the structures that exist that: you either castrate yourself from the idea from raising a family because it isn't economically feasible, or give it the best you can with the money you have because this opportunity is unlikely to come around again anytime soon.
So you don't even consider the concept that it isn't fair to the potential children?
People choose not to have children for a plethora of feasible reasons. Why shouldn't finances be one of them?
In my opinion, if you cannot make enough money to provide for your family wihtout having to skimp on quality time together or involved parenting, you should not have them.
***Please note that this does not factor into the scenerio where unforseen lifestyle changes enter in. Such as major disease, death of a mate or unwanted divorce etc.***
Someone has to be responsible.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
So you don't even consider the concept that it isn't fair to the potential children?
People choose not to have children for a plethora of feasible reasons. Why shouldn't finances be one of them?
In my opinion, if you cannot make enough money to provide for your family wihtout having to skimp on quality time together or involved parenting, you should not have them.
***Please note that this does not factor into the scenerio where unforseen lifestyle changes enter in. Such as major disease, death of a mate or unwanted divorce etc.***
Someone has to be responsible.
And it becomes a quiet genocide for those who are perfectly hard-working and capable of raising a family if not for the continued negligence of those same people who do the jobs that are needed most to grease the wheels of this society.
You're not realistic.
When two people meet and want to spend their life together and have a child...they're going to do it. In spite of any obstacles.
And it becomes a quiet genocide for those who are perfectly hard-working and capable of raising a family if not for the continued negligence of those who do the jobs that are needed most to grease the wheels of this society.
no, thats like saying it is the dealers fault if your car breaks down because you are too busy working to change the oil, filters or lube it regularly.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
no, thats like saying it is the dealers fault if your car breaks down because you are too busy working to change the oil, filters or lube it regularly.
Wow.
Wow.
You really are a 'droid.
This discussion is probably over. You are without a human soul.
Inadequate parental involvement. Which leads the child on a path riddled with a lack of supervision, lack of education, lack of responsibility, lack of standards etc. It is really quite simple. A stable family life requires the parent to be pro-active in rearing the child and most definitely not absent.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
Inadequate parental involvement. Which leads the child on a path riddled with a lack of supervision, lack of education, lack of responsibility, lack of standards etc. It is really quite simple. A stable family life requires the parent to be pro-active in rearing the child.
And you think you can determine if the garbageman is capable of handling that with his convenience store clerk wife?
And you think you can determine if the garbageman is capable of handling that with his convenience store clerk wife?
Fuck you.
That is NOT what I said. What I said was, if specific jobs require them to be lacking in parenting skills because they are too tired, busy or absent...then NO they are not capable of handing a child correctly.
Your direction of this thread was that parents who work hard long hours should not be penalized for slacking off on parenting. My response is that they are just as accountable as any other parent.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
Inadequate parental involvement. Which leads the child on a path riddled with a lack of supervision, lack of education, lack of responsibility, lack of standards etc. It is really quite simple. A stable family life requires the parent to be pro-active in rearing the child and most definitely not absent.
Following this line of discussion, in real life, the garbageman should slit you from crotch to earlobe if you gave that answer to my question to his face.
at what cost to the parents when you are 70 and wished you'd started a family but didn't have the money? Kids are tough. They can survive more than we give them credit for.
Geez, its not always about the children, sometimes its about being a human being.
at what cost to the parents when you are 70 and wished you'd started a family but didn't have the money? Kids are tough. They can survive more than we give them credit for.
Geez, its not always about the children, sometimes its about being a human being.
That's right. It is always about being a human being.
Comments
not that i'm a fan of Marilyn Manson or his music. but I would not have cared if either of my kids had ever wanted to listen to it. it's not as if they had listened to his music that they would've grabbed a gun and headed to school to shoot the place up. a good parent doesn't censor the music that their kid listens to. this kid was fucked up, he'd would've been regardless of the music he listened to.
since when do you get to decide what is considered "negative music?"
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
jeeesus fucking christ, you are insane
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
My personal experience is that I deal with the after effects of this "matter" when these same parents lose control over their children because they were too self absorbed and uneducated to raise them properly.
Ineffective or absent parenting is to blame. Not the schools, not the doctors, not the other students, not the government etc.
I accept that reply.
Thank you.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
you said "parenting is an enormous social ill" perhaps if you had said that "bad parenting is an enormous social ill" you'd at least make a little sense. but you can't not blame everything on parenting good or bad...there are many social ills that have nothing to do with how good or bad one's parents are/were.
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
There is no insanity here. Is there MS?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
You realize that's the romance in your head, don't you?
I don't mean the candlelit dinner date thing. I mean the era. The era in the history of literature and fiction. It lives with us still. I don't knock it. I do say it's mostly fiction. Media becomes us. It has for thousands of years. It's in the storytelling. You're a storyteller, as am I. I'm citing the influence of your prediliction to the romantic philosophy.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Parents - clue phone - you can't stop kids from playing games and listening to music that you find offensive. Why do you think they do it - cause it pisses you off!!!!! But the music/games isn't what sends them off the deep end to commit murder. These are just a convenient place to lay the blame.
Anyone who would knowingly take the life of another human being is deeply troubled and more than likely would have committed these acts with or without evil games/music.
Maybe it's the news media's obsessive coverage of school killings that gives birth to these kid's twisted ideas.
Well, I'm off to light candles and worship at my Eddie Vedder altar. Look out, I might hug a tree to death:)
Where's Finsbury when you need him? My instincts are phenomenol, I just don't have the schoolin.
And I kinda like that about myself.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Which is a wonderful point. Media is providing the catalyst these "troubled" children need to "go off the deep end".
Tell me, from a psychological standpoint, what do things like violence/drugs/rape/criminal activity/etc. in movies, music, books etc. do for the human psyche? How do they benefit a person? Of what use is their content?
When put into the perspective that power of suggestion draws people to certain behaviors, certainly you can see their negative influence. Even the most healthy of minds is affected.
Just as a child exhibits what they live in their family life, they exhibit what they feed their minds. Every experience a child has in life molds their personality. It presents them with ideas. Plants seeds of thought.
It may present a kid with ideas, however, I have seen that even the most maladjusted kids are quite aware of the difference between reality and TV. The malady isn't within the ideas the kids are getting from sub-standard run-of-the-mill television/media programming, it is in the fact that media and television has become a babysitter to a generation of children. Their own creativite ideas are sound. It is the absenteeism created by the fact that both parents have to work sustain a family that is the by-product of the rhetoric of which you espouse. You, and that rhetoric are contributing to the problem. It is the times we live in.
I dislike your fingerpointing attitude immensley. As if it is crime to want to raise a family this day and age. It is a sacrifice now, beyond belief for the working men and women of this country. Why are those that put muscle into their living being punished? Why are those with the dirty jobs that are necessary for a community to thrive being paid the lowest wages and paying the highest rent?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Furthermore, I disagree with the comment that hard workers are "punished". Are you insinuating that they should be given less responsibility in regards to parenting because they make less money? That is putting them in a light of intellectual ignorance which we both know doesn't necessarily equate with poverty. Being poor doesnt mean we should generalize accross the board that they are inherently "bad parents" or "less capable". It does mean however that they have to live up to their choices. If they choose to have children, they don't get to live by a different set of standards in regards raising of children.
All kids need specific things in their lives in order to thrive in a positive manner. Being rich, poor, white, black, short, tall or otherwise doesn't factor into this reality.
You missed the whole idea.
Less time to spend as a family is what I was getting at. That is the reality of trying to raise a family from the bottom up in this day and age.
You know the old saying, money doesn't grow on trees. Meeting a mate you want to raise a family together with faces the reality in the structures that exist that: you either castrate yourself from the idea from raising a family because it isn't economically feasible, or give it the best you can with the money you have because this opportunity is unlikely to come around again anytime soon.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
So you don't even consider the concept that it isn't fair to the potential children?
People choose not to have children for a plethora of feasible reasons. Why shouldn't finances be one of them?
In my opinion, if you cannot make enough money to provide for your family wihtout having to skimp on quality time together or involved parenting, you should not have them.
***Please note that this does not factor into the scenerio where unforseen lifestyle changes enter in. Such as major disease, death of a mate or unwanted divorce etc.***
Someone has to be responsible.
And it becomes a quiet genocide for those who are perfectly hard-working and capable of raising a family if not for the continued negligence of those same people who do the jobs that are needed most to grease the wheels of this society.
You're not realistic.
When two people meet and want to spend their life together and have a child...they're going to do it. In spite of any obstacles.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
You tell me.
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Wow.
Wow.
You really are a 'droid.
This discussion is probably over. You are without a human soul.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
And you think you can determine if the garbageman is capable of handling that with his convenience store clerk wife?
Fuck you.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Your direction of this thread was that parents who work hard long hours should not be penalized for slacking off on parenting. My response is that they are just as accountable as any other parent.
Following this line of discussion, in real life, the garbageman should slit you from crotch to earlobe if you gave that answer to my question to his face.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Geez, its not always about the children, sometimes its about being a human being.
That's right. It is always about being a human being.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.