How to Stump an Atheist

catefrances

CorporateWhore wrote:

Yer goin' tah hell mbangel10.

In the same way that you cannot disprove the flying spaghetti monster, you cannot disprove God.

But, if God does exist, then yer screwed.

Hence, I'm a paschal man, among others.

Paschal's Wager:

If God exists and you believe in him, you will probably go to heaven.

If God exists and you do not believe in him, you will probably not go to heaven.

If God doesn't exist and you believe in him, you are no worse off for having believed in him.

If God doesn't exist and you didn't believe in him, you have the fortune of saying "I was right!" when you're dead.

Theoretically, this wager should cause you to conclude that it is advantageous to bet that God exists. You have everything to win and nothing to lose.

I am not convinced that God does not exist. I take the optimist's view: if God didn't exist, there'd be a lot more pain and suffering than there is. So God must exist, because he limits our pain and suffering. Plenty of people point to God when they say that they were healed.

oh my my my... i am not a gambling person. hell i wont even buy insurance, so theres no way on earth i could contemplate considering that God exists just in case. that is a weak argument imo.
fyi... for me, God doesnt exist and when im dead i wont know anyway, cause I'LL BE DEAD!!! as will all my senses that would enable me to detect the non existence of God(which i can already do btw )

mbangel10

CorporateWhore wrote:

Yer goin' tah hell mbangel10.

In the same way that you cannot disprove the flying spaghetti monster, you cannot disprove God.

But, if God does exist, then yer screwed.

Hence, I'm a paschal man, among others.

Paschal's Wager:

If God exists and you believe in him, you will probably go to heaven.

If God exists and you do not believe in him, you will probably not go to heaven.

If God doesn't exist and you believe in him, you are no worse off for having believed in him.

If God doesn't exist and you didn't believe in him, you have the fortune of saying "I was right!" when you're dead.

Theoretically, this wager should cause you to conclude that it is advantageous to bet that God exists. You have everything to win and nothing to lose.

I am not convinced that God does not exist. I take the optimist's view: if God didn't exist, there'd be a lot more pain and suffering than there is. So God must exist, because he limits our pain and suffering. Plenty of people point to God when they say that they were healed.

Or, if a God does in fact exist and all this time you were praying to the wrong one. Oops, now you're dead and you have to answer to a pissed off Zeus.

mbangel10

LongRd. wrote:

mbangel10, did you not read the text of that message?

The author is saying that Atheist don't believe in God yet they believe in aliens, but he argues that God is an alien so therefore Atheists are hypocrites.

But the author's theory doesn't EVEN make any sense. And how does he know that all Atheists believe in aliens.

I've read that message 5 times and have no idea what the author is trying to prove.

That's exactly my point. It's a Christian extremist argument that is only put out there so God fearing people will say "See! Now you have to believe in God!!" and every one else with a shred of common sense says, "WTF? Is this guy serious?"

If you are familiar with any other Christian extremist arguments, none of them have any logic behind them. You can't reason with people which have the same mentality as the author of that above argument.

In lieu of reason, there is faith.

CorporateWhore

catefrances wrote:

oh my my my... i am not a gambling person. hell i wont even buy insurance, so theres no way on earth i could contemplate considering that God exists just in case. that is a weak argument imo.
fyi... for me, God doesnt exist and when im dead i wont know anyway, cause I'LL BE DEAD!!! as will all my senses that would enable me to detect the non existence of God(which i can already do btw )

If God doesn't exist then there's no reason not to gamble

The paradoxical logic of that statement just made my head explode.

CorporateWhore

mbangel10 wrote:

Or, if a God does in fact exist and all this time you were praying to the wrong one. Oops, now you're dead and you have to answer to a pissed off Zeus.

My conception of God looks a lot like Zeus:

http://www.beliefnet.com/imgs/lede/christ_basilica2.jpg

Extra ecclesiam nulla salus!

paige_peach

CorporateWhore wrote:

Yer goin' tah hell mbangel10.

In the same way that you cannot disprove the flying spaghetti monster, you cannot disprove God.

But, if God does exist, then yer screwed.

Hence, I'm a paschal man, among others.

Paschal's Wager:

If God exists and you believe in him, you will probably go to heaven.

If God exists and you do not believe in him, you will probably not go to heaven.

If God doesn't exist and you believe in him, you are no worse off for having believed in him.

If God doesn't exist and you didn't believe in him, you have the fortune of saying "I was right!" when you're dead.

Theoretically, this wager should cause you to conclude that it is advantageous to bet that God exists. You have everything to win and nothing to lose.

I am not convinced that God does not exist. I take the optimist's view: if God didn't exist, there'd be a lot more pain and suffering than there is. So God must exist, because he limits our pain and suffering. Plenty of people point to God when they say that they were healed.

But what if you believe God due to this logic... is it really truly believing then? If you're only believing to get to heaven, isn't that selfish, therefore, unchristian?

And, if every different sect of Christianity claims they are the only ones who are going to heaven and everyone else is wrong, does that mean there will be a lot of people going to hell? That is, if there is such a thing as heaven and hell?

catefrances

CorporateWhore wrote:

If God doesn't exist then there's no reason not to gamble

The paradoxical logic of that statement just made my head explode.

and theres also no reason TO gamble.

South of Seattle

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

That's why "smart" people simply say they are "agnostic".

let the mystery be.

Exactly. Agnostics learn to not care about it. I'm too busy living and enjoying what I have. Sundays are for relaxing.

electronblue

Smellyman wrote:

I just got dumber reading this thread..

LOL...~

Cosmo

Bottom line...
WHO REALLY GIVES A FUCK WHAT SOMEONE ELSE BELIEVES?
...
God or No God... seriously... is your belief system so fucking weak that you need to prove others wrong... because you cannot prove you are right?
Have faith in your own PERSONAL beliefs and let it be.

CorporateWhore

paige_peach wrote:

But what if you believe God due to this logic... is it really truly believing then? If you're only believing to get to heaven, isn't that selfish, therefore, unchristian?

Nay. Doing what is best for yourself is not always selfish. For instance, it is not selfish to take showers or brush your teeth. These are necessities to stay healthy.

Knowing the Lord is essential to your spiritual health. It's not selfish to desire the good.

And, if every different sect of Christianity claims they are the only ones who are going to heaven and everyone else is wrong, does that mean there will be a lot of people going to hell? That is, if there is such a thing as heaven and hell?

Every different sect of Christianity doesn't claim they are the only ones going to heaven. I would be careful about those who do, because they are likely cults.

A lot of people will be going to hell, no doubt. I make no presumptions about who those people will or will not be - that's God's judgment. He's given us some obvious indicators though...

CorporateWhore

catefrances wrote:

and theres also no reason TO gamble.

Depends on yer odds

Model Roll Model

in_hiding79 wrote:

There is no evidence of GOD, ALIENS, or the TOOTH FAIRY!! Once you get or find the evidence, pm me and let me know!

i have a quarter from the tooth fairy

---

is that evidence enough????

Cosmo

paige_peach wrote:

But what if you believe God due to this logic... is it really truly believing then? If you're only believing to get to heaven, isn't that selfish, therefore, unchristian?

And, if every different sect of Christianity claims they are the only ones who are going to heaven and everyone else is wrong, does that mean there will be a lot of people going to hell? That is, if there is such a thing as heaven and hell?

...
The logic used to employ that Paschal's Wager is...
It is belief... just in case there is a God... so He won't be pissed at me.
Sufficient grounds for a belief system? I guess it all depends on the believer.

sweetpotato

mbangel10 wrote:

"Ask an atheist if he or she believes in the existence of aliens? If they answer, "no," then ask them how do they know that? Have they gone to all the other galaxies throughout the universe? The truth is that no atheist can reasonably deny the existence of alien life. To do so would be utter ignorance. If an atheist answers, "yes," then they have contradicted their claim that there is no God. Is not God an Alien? By every definition of the word, God is an alien, i.e., He is not of this earth. For an atheist to profess believe is alien life, while simultaneously denying the existence of God, is utter hypocrisy and foolishness."

so, you want us to just agree that god is an alien, then? will that make you feel better? will you feel more validated in your beliefs if we agree to that?

hell, i'm game!

one question, first- can we please, please now have a debate over whether he's actually green with three heads and prefers to go by the name of Zoog? because that debate would be just as sensible and useful as the one you're proposing.

fanch75

mbangel10 wrote:

The belief in the Christian God however, can never be proven. It is the equivalent of a fairy tale derived from a fictional book that the Christian religion uses as a "pick and choose" guide to manipulate others into acting the way that they see fit.

Science can prove that life on other planets exist but science cannot prove the existence of the Christian God.

This is what makes all the difference, and also makes the argument posted an easy win for any atheist or agnostic.

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/18/2-religions-that-their-parents-dont-belong-to

Stuff White People Like - Religions Their Parents Don't Belong To

White people will often say they are “spiritual” but not religious. This usually means that they will believe in any religion that doesn’t involve Jesus. The most popular choices include Buddhism, Hinduism, Kabbalah, and, to a lesser extent, Scientology. A few even dip into Islam, but that’s much rarer, since you have to make real sacrifices and actually go to a mosque.

For the most part, white people prefer religions that produce artifacts and furniture that fit into their home or wardrobe. They are also particularly drawn to religions that do not require a lot of commitment or donations.

When a white person tells you “I’m a Buddhist/Hindu/Kabbalahist,” the best thing to do is ask how they arrived at their religious decision. The story will likely involve a trip to Thailand or a college class on religion.

mbangel10

fanch75 wrote:

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/18/2-religions-that-their-parents-dont-belong-to

Stuff White People Like - Religions Their Parents Don't Belong To

White people will often say they are “spiritual” but not religious. This usually means that they will believe in any religion that doesn’t involve Jesus. The most popular choices include Buddhism, Hinduism, Kabbalah, and, to a lesser extent, Scientology. A few even dip into Islam, but that’s much rarer, since you have to make real sacrifices and actually go to a mosque.

For the most part, white people prefer religions that produce artifacts and furniture that fit into their home or wardrobe. They are also particularly drawn to religions that do not require a lot of commitment or donations.

When a white person tells you “I’m a Buddhist/Hindu/Kabbalahist,” the best thing to do is ask how they arrived at their religious decision. The story will likely involve a trip to Thailand or a college class on religion.

I have a problem with organized religion but I respect an individuals right to worship whatever they want. If it makes them feel better about themselves, more power to them.

The majority of my criticism though is against many factions of the Christian faith. I'm not against the individual believer. I am against all of the organizations that are trying to strip away our constitution and intertwine church and state.

It's those Christians that are pushing their belief in the Christian God on the rest of us and attempting to create laws or change current ones to fit into their belief system.

The author of the original quote is going so far as to state that if you believe in the possibility of an alien life form existing you must believe in God. That way of thinking is just lunacy; it's like saying that evolution is not science but a religion. These people will argue that scientists are really trying to push their religious agenda in schools behind the guise of science, so therefore Intelligent Design should be there too.

Who here can make any sense of THAT one? It all completely bewilders me.

callen

LongRd. wrote:

The author is saying that Atheist don't believe in God yet they believe in aliens, but he argues that God is an alien so therefore Atheists are hypocrites.

But the author's theory doesn't EVEN make any sense. And how does he know that all Atheists believe in aliens.

I've read that message 5 times and have no idea what the author is trying to prove.

Its okay to be confused...really.

in_hiding79

Model~Roll Model wrote:

i have a quarter from the tooth fairy

---

is that evidence enough????

HOLY SHIT THERE IS A GOD!!!!! :eek:


Close, but not so much!!

Collin

CorporateWhore wrote:

Yer goin' tah hell mbangel10.

In the same way that you cannot disprove the flying spaghetti monster, you cannot disprove God.

But, if God does exist, then yer screwed.

Hence, I'm a paschal man, among others.

Paschal's Wager:

If God exists and you believe in him, you will probably go to heaven.

If God exists and you do not believe in him, you will probably not go to heaven.

If God doesn't exist and you believe in him, you are no worse off for having believed in him.

If God doesn't exist and you didn't believe in him, you have the fortune of saying "I was right!" when you're dead.

Theoretically, this wager should cause you to conclude that it is advantageous to bet that God exists. You have everything to win and nothing to lose.

I am not convinced that God does not exist. I take the optimist's view: if God didn't exist, there'd be a lot more pain and suffering than there is. So God must exist, because he limits our pain and suffering. Plenty of people point to God when they say that they were healed.

Do you have any idea how many religions with different gods exist? Don't fool yourself. There's no safe bet.