So you trust that NK would destroy all of their nukes if we did as well? How do we make certain all nukes worldwide have been destroyed? Because if just one of our enemies hides a few away after we've destroyed all of ours then we have no viable deterrent. Maybe you aren't concerned about our own safety or you're just nieve?
Which takes us back to jlews statement. You really dont see the fundamental difference between north korea (really one guy kim jong il) and the US having nukes.
As for your other knee jerk statement about the last country that used a nuke. I believe it to have been the North Koreans. Refer to UN Resolution 1718. We have used atomic weaponry in warfare, yes. But using your previous logic, "... you tell me who is the one who has actually dropped them before. Then you can get back with me on who is the biggest threat to the world..." At that time we used atomic weaponry against the biggest threat remaining in the world at that time. It was either a million American casualties, or total victory without further American bloodshed. I'll leave the morality of that up to you.
As for this statement. The only concievable reason you would ask such a question is that you believe the United States to be fundamentally evil. Or, you have some sort of evidence that we have used nuclear weaponry in a reckless manor. Seeing that your only decision can be based on the fact that we used atomic weaponry against the imperial japanese in 1945, I'll await your answer.
The Japanese were already finished. They were made an example of....a power play, pure and simple. A million Americans were never endanger of being killed by the Japanese without the bomb.
I don't believe in evil. Living a life based on fear of another turns you into what you hate. Bombs pointed at everyone else out of fear.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i was surprised it did not get played sooner than page 2. those guys must be slipping today.
by the way, the US has dropped an atomic bomb on civillian populations TWICE. just pointing that out.....i would think that it would be a safe bet that if you do something more than once without negative consequences, it might make you more likely to engage in that behavior again over someone who has never done it.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"As for this statement. The only concievable reason you would ask such a question is that you believe the United States to be fundamentally evil."
Is that not the reason? If not, what is the reason for making the moral equivalency that it's OK for North Korea to have nukes if the US has them. And if it's OK for North Korea to have nukes would it then be OK for the US to have nukes? Is the rest of the world simply defending themselves from the United States by having nukes? Again, I apologize for that line in my last post because it's lead you away from the entire post. And again, I'll ask, if eradicating all nukes worldwide is your objective, how do we make certain all nukes worldwide have been destroyed? I mean, show a little thought beyond trying to proclaim world peace. How are you going to go about achieving it? You are a bit more intellectually stemulating than Diane Lang I would suppose.
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
i would think that it would be a safe bet that if you do something more than once without negative consequences, it might make you more likely to engage in that behavior again over someone who has never done it.
Well... Very observant. It might. But has it? Would it be reasonable to say that you should be thankful that we beat the Germans to the technology or it may have been us the first atomic weapons were used against?
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Well, it's not the just the US, right? Kudos to all of them.
I still think it's hypocritical, though.
Well to be accurate, the other parties were just facilitators. The deal was to give N. Korea assurances of no invasion and money Im sure. The only party who they had to worry about was us. So, Kudos to us, since it will be our money. How many Russian rubles are being given I wonder?
The inability to respect and acknowledge the US doing something good is appalling.
When we do something significant you let me know. We are on a path toward just sticking it out in Iraq until it gets so bad we can't take it anymore. Then we will slowly leave. And gradually Iran, Saudi, Al Qaeda, and the people of Iraq will fight it out. We will leave it to them once we lose the will to fight - but refuse to work with them now. That is appauling.
Well to be accurate, the other parties were just facilitators. The deal was to give N. Korea assurances of no invasion and money Im sure. The only party who they had to worry about was us. So, Kudos to us, since it will be our money. How many Russian rubles are being given I wonder?
How many Red Chinese have a hand in the pocket? Sometimes I forget it's only fashionable to fantasize about American corruption.
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Well look at that. I am amazed at what talks and not bombs can do. Good on all the countries that participated, and hammered a deal out. Until NK runs this new chapter of money into the ground and pipe up with somemore outrageous demands. Didn't Clinton appease them not too long ago. Of course with money and not bombs, but how long can the cycle continue. Again, good that there were no shots fired.
You actually think this is a good thing? What does this tell the world, just build a bomb and we'll buy you out. Wonderful message. Further, the deal is on paper only. Let's see where this thing is in 6 months time. Don't hold your breath on the North Koreans allowing inspectors back any time soon. If they do, ILL start agreeing with Byrnzie, and then, you will be sure...the apocalypse is upon us...
When we do something significant you let me know. We are on a path toward just sticking it out in Iraq until it gets so bad we can't take it anymore. Then we will slowly leave. And gradually Iran, Saudi, Al Qaeda, and the people of Iraq will fight it out. We will leave it to them once we lose the will to fight - but refuse to work with them now. That is appauling.
One has to believe things are as bad you say they are in order to make that assumption.
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Regarding your first paragraph, i don't understand it. 'People on this board weren't distributing the blame'? Distributing what blame? And against who should blame have been distributed?
Regarding your second paragraph, a group of countries, some of which have more influence on Korea than America - i.e, Japan - got together and negotiated with North Korea to accept a deal whereby it would gain a quantity of fuel in return for shutting down one of it's reactors. This is a good move, but it will do nothing to reduce the quantity of nuclear arms in the world. North Korea will never completely disarm because it's leaders aren't suicidal. This is a token gesture to attempt to restore some semblance of harmony in that region. The fact is that this deal probably benefits Japan more than it benefits the U.S.
Dont forget our favorite American currently living in exhile..Ahnimus
Ah yes....Ahnimus--he's actually in my neck of the woods, an hour away. Are you telling me he's an American by proxy, or something?? An American in Canadian clothing??
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Ah yes....Ahnimus--he's actually in my neck of the woods, an hour away. Are you telling me he's an American by proxy, or something?? An American in Canadian clothing??
What exactly defines Canadian clothing?
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
And for us to have them...First, you have to be on crack if you think that any country that already has nuclear weapons is just going to give them back. Not going to happen. The best we can do is prevent any more countries from obtaining them.
But just a little refresher on that Korean War thing. North Korea did not surrender. 30,000 americans died there. The war ended not with an unconditional surrender, it ended with an armistice. Does anyone know the difference? Besides Byrnzie...I know he knows.
The difference is that technically there is still a state of war with North Korea. That war ended with the status quo being preserved, not a capitulation. As a result, a million many army stand on the border with South Korea.
This same country is trying (and fortunately failing) to build rockets capable of hitting the West Coast. I live in Los Angeles. Therefore, for me, it is definitely NOT ok for North Korea to have weapons to tip those missiles.
For the Europeans and "other North Americans" on this board who don't get it,
try living in our shoes. It's about survival. That's why its ok for US to have them, and THEM not to. End of story.
We wear parkas for a start. And apparently some Canadians--girls, no less--ones who shall remain nameless, tend to walk around in this frigid temperature without underwear!! You'll have to check the AET for that thread. Oh, and tuques. Yes, we also wear tuques. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tuque)
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Two thumbs up for Nuclear blackmail....Wonder what the cost will be for Iran?
...
Cost to Iran?
Nothing.
They are unrelated and very different situations. Iran is holding the upper hand right now. The Shi'ite majority Iraq is theirs for the taking... and they won't even have to fire a shot. All they have to do is sit tight and let the Americans build the Iraqi forces to be able to stand for themselves. Once established, the Shi'ite lead government could simply order that the Americans leave their soil. They can then align themselves with Iran and control their 'Sunni Problem', making the Iran/Iraq block a powerful... if not THE most powerful Muslim coalition in the region.
Look at what's happening in Iraq... not just Baghdad (which is getting all of the headlines), but the North, like Tirkrit, where Arabs and Kurds are starting to kill each other. It places our troops in an even tougher situation because we either side with the Kurds (which won't go well with our NATO Ally, Turkey... or with the Iraqi Arabs, in which case, we go against our Kurdish allies in Iraq.
Iran right now has nothing to lose... if we attack Iran... we place our troops, occupying Iraq, in extreme danger because they are in close quarters with Iraqi Shi'ites. If we nuke them... we validate our perceived image as the one true evil in the world. If we do nothing... Iran gets free reign on what they want.
The going in, guns blazing, foriegn policy is for idiots and fools who will ultimately bring down America's stature as the world leader and relegate it to the position of the New Soviet Union. Our best bet is to sit down with Iran and talk to them. It's a lot tougher than going in and blowing up the place... but, at least it allows the issue to be manageable.
Iran has nothing to do with North Korea and vice-versa... except in the mind of President Bush. North Korea and Iran couldn't care less about each other except in their shared hatred of Western (American) power. Buying into the 'Axis Of Evil' is for fools... it has already shown itself in the realities that occur on the ground in Iraq.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
We wear parkas for a start. And apparently some Canadians--girls, no less--ones who shall remain nameless, tend to walk around in this frigid temperature without underwear!! You'll have to check the AET for that thread. Oh, and tuques. Yes, we also wear tuques. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tuque)
Yes, yes and yes.
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
I wouldn't be more happier seeing you stroll up wearing those two articles of clothing. And only those two articles!
Riiiggggghht, okay. When you say "you", I expect that you mean Ahnimus. We are talking about Ahnimus here, remember??? And if you are paying attention and do in fact refer to Ahnimus, you're starting to frighten me, Sunshine!
Although I think he'd look a little better with the underwear on. And if I recall correctly from the thread on the AET, he is one of the Canadian underwear-wearers--well, he has been as an adult.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Riiiggggghht, okay. When you say "you", I expect that you mean Ahnimus. We are talking about Ahnimus here, remember??? And if you are paying attention and do in fact refer to Ahnimus, you're starting to frighten me, Sunshine!
Although I think he'd look a little better with the underwear on. And if I recall correctly from the thread on the AET, he is one of the Canadian underwear-wearers--well, he has been as an adult.
No. That comment was directed at you. Quite directly.
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
No. That comment was directed at you. Quite directly.
You are nothing if not direct, Sunshine. The fact of the matter is that I don't wear a tuque. You'll just have to find yourself another fantasy Canadian!
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Comments
The Japanese were already finished. They were made an example of....a power play, pure and simple. A million Americans were never endanger of being killed by the Japanese without the bomb.
I don't believe in evil. Living a life based on fear of another turns you into what you hate. Bombs pointed at everyone else out of fear.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well, it's all they've got. As soon as it comes up, I know they just couldn't come up with anything better.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
great minds....;)
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i was surprised it did not get played sooner than page 2. those guys must be slipping today.
by the way, the US has dropped an atomic bomb on civillian populations TWICE. just pointing that out.....i would think that it would be a safe bet that if you do something more than once without negative consequences, it might make you more likely to engage in that behavior again over someone who has never done it.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"As for this statement. The only concievable reason you would ask such a question is that you believe the United States to be fundamentally evil."
Is that not the reason? If not, what is the reason for making the moral equivalency that it's OK for North Korea to have nukes if the US has them. And if it's OK for North Korea to have nukes would it then be OK for the US to have nukes? Is the rest of the world simply defending themselves from the United States by having nukes? Again, I apologize for that line in my last post because it's lead you away from the entire post. And again, I'll ask, if eradicating all nukes worldwide is your objective, how do we make certain all nukes worldwide have been destroyed? I mean, show a little thought beyond trying to proclaim world peace. How are you going to go about achieving it? You are a bit more intellectually stemulating than Diane Lang I would suppose.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
I apologize. I assumed it was understood that two atomic bombs were dropped.
Well... Very observant. It might. But has it? Would it be reasonable to say that you should be thankful that we beat the Germans to the technology or it may have been us the first atomic weapons were used against?
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
Well to be accurate, the other parties were just facilitators. The deal was to give N. Korea assurances of no invasion and money Im sure. The only party who they had to worry about was us. So, Kudos to us, since it will be our money. How many Russian rubles are being given I wonder?
When we do something significant you let me know. We are on a path toward just sticking it out in Iraq until it gets so bad we can't take it anymore. Then we will slowly leave. And gradually Iran, Saudi, Al Qaeda, and the people of Iraq will fight it out. We will leave it to them once we lose the will to fight - but refuse to work with them now. That is appauling.
How many Red Chinese have a hand in the pocket? Sometimes I forget it's only fashionable to fantasize about American corruption.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
You actually think this is a good thing? What does this tell the world, just build a bomb and we'll buy you out. Wonderful message. Further, the deal is on paper only. Let's see where this thing is in 6 months time. Don't hold your breath on the North Koreans allowing inspectors back any time soon. If they do, ILL start agreeing with Byrnzie, and then, you will be sure...the apocalypse is upon us...
One has to believe things are as bad you say they are in order to make that assumption.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
What exactly defines Canadian clothing?
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
But just a little refresher on that Korean War thing. North Korea did not surrender. 30,000 americans died there. The war ended not with an unconditional surrender, it ended with an armistice. Does anyone know the difference? Besides Byrnzie...I know he knows.
The difference is that technically there is still a state of war with North Korea. That war ended with the status quo being preserved, not a capitulation. As a result, a million many army stand on the border with South Korea.
This same country is trying (and fortunately failing) to build rockets capable of hitting the West Coast. I live in Los Angeles. Therefore, for me, it is definitely NOT ok for North Korea to have weapons to tip those missiles.
For the Europeans and "other North Americans" on this board who don't get it,
try living in our shoes. It's about survival. That's why its ok for US to have them, and THEM not to. End of story.
He is a Candian with an American inside of him somewhere trying to get out : )
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Cost to Iran?
Nothing.
They are unrelated and very different situations. Iran is holding the upper hand right now. The Shi'ite majority Iraq is theirs for the taking... and they won't even have to fire a shot. All they have to do is sit tight and let the Americans build the Iraqi forces to be able to stand for themselves. Once established, the Shi'ite lead government could simply order that the Americans leave their soil. They can then align themselves with Iran and control their 'Sunni Problem', making the Iran/Iraq block a powerful... if not THE most powerful Muslim coalition in the region.
Look at what's happening in Iraq... not just Baghdad (which is getting all of the headlines), but the North, like Tirkrit, where Arabs and Kurds are starting to kill each other. It places our troops in an even tougher situation because we either side with the Kurds (which won't go well with our NATO Ally, Turkey... or with the Iraqi Arabs, in which case, we go against our Kurdish allies in Iraq.
Iran right now has nothing to lose... if we attack Iran... we place our troops, occupying Iraq, in extreme danger because they are in close quarters with Iraqi Shi'ites. If we nuke them... we validate our perceived image as the one true evil in the world. If we do nothing... Iran gets free reign on what they want.
The going in, guns blazing, foriegn policy is for idiots and fools who will ultimately bring down America's stature as the world leader and relegate it to the position of the New Soviet Union. Our best bet is to sit down with Iran and talk to them. It's a lot tougher than going in and blowing up the place... but, at least it allows the issue to be manageable.
Iran has nothing to do with North Korea and vice-versa... except in the mind of President Bush. North Korea and Iran couldn't care less about each other except in their shared hatred of Western (American) power. Buying into the 'Axis Of Evil' is for fools... it has already shown itself in the realities that occur on the ground in Iraq.
Hail, Hail!!!
I guess you've figured it out. This must be the reason I can't understand.
Yes, yes and yes.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
No need to be edgy. I just don't believe Iraq is the horrorshow you believe it is. We have differing opinions.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I wouldn't be more happier seeing you stroll up wearing those two articles of clothing. And only those two articles!
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
Although I think he'd look a little better with the underwear on. And if I recall correctly from the thread on the AET, he is one of the Canadian underwear-wearers--well, he has been as an adult.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
No. That comment was directed at you. Quite directly.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!