Israel Bans International Media from Gaza,

RolandTD20Kdrummer

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

Hamas can renounce violence and vow to stop all rocket attacks into Israel.

You don't think they've tried this avenue of peaceful negotiations?

It's happened many many times.

The end result is the Israeli "we take the divine right" agenda goes forward same as before....take another gouge out of the West Bank, and again the entire process starts anew.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

I read plenty about this situation. sounds to me if Hamas vowed to stop rocket attacks the situation would be different.

Right, so if I came to your house with 20 other guys, killed half of your family, kicked you out, built a crummy little fenced-in shack out in the back yard for you to live in while me and my guys moved into your house, then accuse you of terrorism every time you try to fight back, you think that'd be reasonable? You'd think it'd be reasonable for me to say "well, if you'd just stop firing rockets at us, everything would be fine"? No, you'd tell me to go to hell just like I'd tell you if the situation were reversed.

Again, your perspective on what's happened over there is skewed. Keep reading.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

I'm not defending Israel. the international community should condemn the acts of Israel

They DO...all the time. They've brought dozens of resolutions to the UN Security Council over the years...the U.S. just always vetoes them. Look it up.

pearljamfan1212

Saturnal wrote:

They DO...all the time. They've brought dozens of resolutions to the UN Security Council over the years...the U.S. just always vetoes them. Look it up.

I said namely the US. looks like you missed that. how about you stop being condescending ?

pearljamfan1212

Saturnal wrote:

Right, so if I came to your house with 20 other guys, killed half of your family, kicked you out, built a crummy little fenced-in shack out in the back yard for you to live in while me and my guys moved into your house, then accuse you of terrorism every time you try to fight back, you think that'd be reasonable? You'd think it'd be reasonable for me to say "well, if you'd just stop firing rockets at us, everything would be fine"? No, you'd tell me to go to hell just like I'd tell you if the situation were reversed.

Again, your perspective on what's happened over there is skewed. Keep reading.

cute analogy. violence is still not the answer.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

I said namely the US. looks like you missed that. how about you stop being condescending ?

I know, but my point is that these small-scale attacks from Hamas aren't inhibiting any criticism of Israel in the international community....the U.S. is doing that. That's why focusing on this story and trying to use it to say "well if Hamas would just cut the crap, maybe things would be different" is way off-base. That's what everyone here is trying to tell you.

pearljamfan1212

Saturnal wrote:

I know, but my point is that these small-scale attacks from Hamas aren't inhibiting any criticism of Israel in the international community....the U.S. is doing that. That's why focusing on this story and trying to use it to say "well if Hamas would just cut the crap, maybe things would be different" is way off-base. That's what everyone here is trying to tell you.

well sure is worth a shot on Hamas's part. firing rockets into Israel does nothing expect give Israel an excuse to put the fucking smack down on them.

Byrnzie

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

well sure is worth a shot on Hamas's part. firing rockets into Israel does nothing expect give Israel an excuse to put the fucking smack down on them.

True. Although if the Israeli's can't use rockets as an excuse then they'll find another excuse like they did last week; I.e, tunnels which may be used to abduct IDF soldiers.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

well sure is worth a shot on Hamas's part. firing rockets into Israel does nothing expect give Israel an excuse to put the fucking smack down on them.

But Israel is laying the smack down on them anyways regardless of whether they're firing rockets or not. They're under occupation. That's why it's silly for you to talk about the issue the way you do...you keep talking about what Hamas has to do or what Hamas should do. We should be focused on telling Israel what it needs to do. We shouldn't excuse anyone for any sort of terrorist activity, but in a situation where both sides are committing terrorism, we should focus more on the side that's carrying out majority of it...and that side is Israel without a doubt.

fuck

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

I read plenty about this situation. sounds to me if Hamas vowed to stop rocket attacks the situation would be different.

sounds to me like you have no fucking clue about what a "truce" is.

you see, there was a truce agreed upon 5 months ago or so where both Hamas and Israel said they would stop attacking eachother (ie. stop rocket attacks). clearly that wasn't enough for Israel since they still killed plenty of Gazans. And after they break the truce and Hamas fires back with any rockets, they're fucking surprised?? so they implemented the blockade BECAUSE of this?? do you think you are making any sense because I don't think you are. perhaps in a fantasy world where your distractions and irrelevant news are considered necessary facts to this situation, it would matter. at the end of the day, to say something as ignorant as "if hamas stopped rocket attacks, the gazans could live" is just pure fabrication and a lame attempt at lifting the blame off israel.

pearljamfan1212

_outlaw wrote:

sounds to me like you have no fucking clue about what a "truce" is.

you see, there was a truce agreed upon 5 months ago or so where both Hamas and Israel said they would stop attacking eachother (ie. stop rocket attacks). clearly that wasn't enough for Israel since they still killed plenty of Gazans. And after they break the truce and Hamas fires back with any rockets, they're fucking surprised?? so they implemented the blockade BECAUSE of this?? do you think you are making any sense because I don't think you are. perhaps in a fantasy world where your distractions and irrelevant news are considered necessary facts to this situation, it would matter. at the end of the day, to say something as ignorant as "if hamas stopped rocket attacks, the gazans could live" is just pure fabrication and a lame attempt at lifting the blame off israel.

so you feel Hamas should continue the rocket attacks?

fuck

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

so you feel Hamas should continue the rocket attacks?

this extended talk about these weak, homemade rockets is irrelevant. if you think these rocket attacks are so bad, you should see how an ACTUAL military (Israel) fights when it kills civilians. if you want peace, Israel must step up first. the rocket attacks are the least of anyone's worries.

pearljamfan1212

_outlaw wrote:

this extended talk about these weak, homemade rockets is irrelevant. if you think these rocket attacks are so bad, you should see how an ACTUAL military (Israel) fights when it kills civilians. if you want peace, Israel must step up first. the rocket attacks are the least of anyone's worries.

Israel is using them as an excuse to do what it does. everything is in response to rocket attacks from gaza. how you can say they are irrelevant is beyond me.

fuck

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

Israel is using them as an excuse to do what it does. everything is in response to rocket attacks from gaza. how you can say they are irrelevant is beyond me.

they've had several excuses for YEARS. you think these rocket attacks are what started everything? byrnzie already showed you how they would make up more excuses like the whole nonsense about the tunnel. do you have short-term memory loss or weak reading comprehension?

pearljamfan1212

_outlaw wrote:

they've had several excuses for YEARS. you think these rocket attacks are what started everything? byrnzie already showed you how they would make up more excuses like the whole nonsense about the tunnel. do you have short-term memory loss or weak reading comprehension?

yes the tunnel was another excuse. ok shut down the tunnel too. point is, rocket attacks are used the MAJORITY of the time as an excuse...and specifically for the current blockade that is causing so much misery. stop denying that. I've already mentioned the solution many times but I'll say it again since you reading comprehension is lacking.

hamas can renounce violence and vow to stop rocket attacks from Gaza.

my money says aid would start flowing in if that happens. or we can do it your way and encourage more rocket attacks. you know, because they work so well.

pearljamfan1212

_outlaw wrote:

they've had several excuses for YEARS. you think these rocket attacks are what started everything? byrnzie already showed you how they would make up more excuses like the whole nonsense about the tunnel. do you have short-term memory loss or weak reading comprehension?

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=28945&Cr=palestin&Cr1=

Ban calls for end to rocket attacks from Gaza, Israeli resumption of fuel, aid flows

14 November 2008 – United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon today called for an end to rocket attacks from Gaza against Israel and called on Israel to allow urgently a steady and sufficient supply of fuel and humanitarian aid to the Strip.

“The Secretary-General is deeply concerned at the deterioration of the humanitarian and security situation in Gaza and southern Israel, and at the potential for further suffering and violence,” a statement issued by his spokesperson said. “He calls on all parties to uphold international humanitarian and human rights law.”

The Office of the UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process (UNSCO) reported that all crossings into Gaza were closed today, including for fuel and aid workers. It has now been nine days in a row that commercial and humanitarian food deliveries have been kept out of Gaza.

Reiterating his condemnation of rocket attacks, Mr. Ban called for them to end and urged full respect by all parties of the calm that has been in effect since 19 June.

“The Secretary-General is concerned that food and other life-saving assistance is being denied to hundreds of thousands of people, and emphasizes that measures which increase the hardship and suffering of the civilian population of the Gaza Strip as a whole are unacceptable and should cease immediately,” the statement said.

“In particular, he calls on Israel to allow urgently, the steady and sufficient supply of fuel and humanitarian assistance. He also calls on Israel to resume facilitating the activities of the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) and all humanitarian agencies, including through unimpeded access for UN officials and humanitarian workers.”

Because the fuel pipelines into the Strip were blocked today, parts of Gaza are now experiencing power cuts of 8 to 12 hours a day, UNSCO said. Among the items that UNRWA is trying to get into Gaza is wool for a rehabilitation centre where blind women knit sweaters.

Yesterday UNRWA was forced to suspend food distributions to half of Gaza''s 1.5 million residents as the continued border closures prevented delivery of vital supplies.

In a separate statement, the UN Bureau of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People voiced its “utmost alarm” about the humanitarian situation in Gaza, condemned Israel''s decision to close all crossings and expressed alarm at the renewed violence, including Palestinian rocket fire into Israel and Israeli air strikes at Gaza.

fuck

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=28945&Cr=palestin&Cr1=

[random article]

what's your point? I can pull up random articles about Israel's incursions being unprovoked all day.

pearljamfan1212

_outlaw wrote:

what's your point? I can pull up random articles about Israel's incursions being unprovoked all day.

sigh. whats my point? how many times would you like me to repeat it? and you knocked me for reading comprehension skills eh? ok here goes....

Hamas should vow to END all rocket attacks against Israel. in return aid will start flowing back into Gaza.


but no, last night more rockets were fired by hamas and the blockade went back up.

was firing those rockets really worth it? to you the answer is obviously yes. but for me, I think the aid flowing is a better alternative.

fuck

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

sigh. whats my point? how many times would you like me to repeat it? and you knocked me for reading comprehension skills eh? ok here goes....

Hamas should vow to END all rocket attacks against Israel. in return aid will start flowing back into Gaza.

lol.

wow, you're hilariously horrible at this.

let me break it down for you:
- The blockade has been up since 2006.
- Hamas and Israel signed a truce. Hamas stopped rocket attacks for MONTHS.
- Israel performed an unprovoked incursion into Gaza. Blockade became more strict.
- Hamas retaliates with a few rockets that do virtually nothing.

do you see why your point is irrelevant? do you need me to go into further detail?

but no, last night more rockets were fired by hamas and the blockade went back up.

the blockade didn't go "back up", its been up for years. It was loosened to allow in a few supplies, but it was not tightened again due to the rocket attacks, they've been doing that regardless of the fact.

GET IT?!!??!??

was firing those rockets really worth it? to you the answer is obviously yes. but for me, I think the aid flowing is a better alternative.

for me, the two are unrelated.

pearljamfan1212

_outlaw wrote:

lol.

wow, you're hilariously horrible at this.

let me break it down for you:
- The blockade has been up since 2006.
- Hamas and Israel signed a truce. Hamas stopped rocket attacks for MONTHS.

yes I know. it was nice wasn't it?

_outlaw wrote:

- Israel performed an unprovoked incursion into Gaza. Blockade became more strict.

unprovoked? according to who. you? according to many sources this was the reason...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians

Israeli troops crossed into the Gaza Strip late last night near the town of Deir al-Balah. The Israeli military said the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away. Four Israeli soldiers were injured in the operation, two moderately and two lightly, the military said.

---

maybe they shouldnt have dug that tunnel eh?

_outlaw wrote:

- Hamas retaliates with a few rockets that do virtually nothing.

then why shoot them? all they do is give Israel a reason to retaliate

_outlaw wrote:

do you see why your point is irrelevant? do you need me to go into further detail?

you can try I guess but I dont see much good it will do. my point still stands.

_outlaw wrote:

the blockade didn't go "back up", its been up for years. It was loosened to allow in a few supplies, but it was not tightened again due to the rocket attacks, they've been doing that regardless of the fact.

yes it was!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7747363.stm

Israel has resealed a border crossing with the Gaza Strip that it had temporarily opened to allow in a limited amount of food and fuel.

Israeli officials said they took the step after a rocket was fired at Israel late on Monday.

aid was going through which means it was down. rockets were fired. it was closed. I'm trying to explain this to you in painful detail because you are having a hard time following.

_outlaw wrote:

for me, the two are unrelated.

as soon as you figure out they are related the better.