Obama picks Biden for VP

fuck

cutback wrote:

he would have gotten my vote...and i'm not kidding

agreed, he can make a rap video and trash McCain.

fuck

Another Democratic Defeat. The choice of Biden as VP is dumb. But then again: Democrats are most skillful in losing election. They are not even smart enough to realize maybe if you pick a politician from a Republican or on-the-edge state and who can carry, you enhance your chances. But Obama picks somebody from...Delaware. How many electoral votes does Delaware have? Whopping three. That would make for a victory, I am sure. Biden is the man who thinks he is a foreign policy expert because he wants to divide Iraq into three mini-states. Oh, yeah? How would he like it if an Arab proposes to divide his precious Delaware into three mini-states? Also, he is like other Senators: a predictable Zionist fanatic. A colleague of mine was once invited to testify before his committee. Biden asked him to join him for lunch afterwards. I asked the colleague if Biden sounded different on Israel in private. He said: no. He was as bad in private as he sound in public. Obama is doing everything possible to get...McCain elected as president.

Anon

_outlaw wrote:

sorry, I didn't mean you, I was mainly talking about catch22 and other people making comments like that.

yeah, i've been thinking about that, too... but I just keep thinking: how can I cast a vote for Obama/Biden and then go to my friends living in Gaza and the West Bank and look at them straight in the face like I didn't just vote for a guy who vowed to make their next 4 years a living hell?

I'm on the same page as you in relation to the Israel issue. I don't find what the israelis are doing acceptable. I believe that they are the instigators of the continuing violence. They can make things better there but they choose not to. They will not bend an inch. It seems simple to me, Israel has to withdraw from the occupied territories. Then they can work on the other problems.

Can you tell me why you think the palestinians and israelis will be better off under McCain?

fuck

Pj_Gurl wrote:

Can you tell me why you think the palestinians and israelis will be better off under McCain?

Obama has gone farther than any other president in history - he promised ALL of Jerusalem to Israel.

Anon

_outlaw wrote:

Obama has gone farther than any other president in history - he promised ALL of Jerusalem to Israel.

link?

Anon

from a reputable source......
thanks.

fuck

Pj_Gurl wrote:

link?

"Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91150432

have you not read/heard this speech? it's quite jaw-dropping.

Anon

_outlaw wrote:

"Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91150432

have you not read/heard this speech? it's quite jaw-dropping.

Yes i have read that before.

As a Obama supporter, I think I can honestly say the undivided Jersulem issue is a backtrack in positions.

He made it seem like the Middle East was open for negotiations. He also made it seem like he understood what was at the heart of the matter. One issue is Israel. If he is going to hold firm with the current obvious politics, then I don't see how he is going to get any movement there. If he comes into the negotiation with one firm position like undivided Jerusalem as a precondition, how does he expect anyone to be willing to talk to him? No one wants to talk just to talk, they want a settlement of some kind.

I am disappointed with Obama's middle east statements after all the rhetoric about fairness and fresh starts. The conflict will not end without US pressure, and it seems like none will come from Obama if he personally believes that Arab East Jerusalem should just be gifted to Israel. This is one of the main issues, and these statements show either his inexperience, or his willingness to trade principles for votes.

Is Israel the 51st State in America ? Why do we always have to act like we are the be all and end all. Our own country is in a big enough mess as it is. Why don't we consider the interests of other nations in the world instead of playing (..what others may see as ) favoritism to a particular country?

You said yesterday that you were thinking of supporting Obama until Biden was announced as the VP. Obama gave this speech in June 08?

Also, as much as it troubles me with what's happening to the palestinian people, i don't think that it is something that will be up the top of peoples 'why i am or are not voting for a certain cadidate.' They have bigger issues closer to home. We can't be everything to everyone and the sooner we realize that, the better. I know that probably sounds selfish, but we have to start looking after number one sometime yes?

fuck

Pj_Gurl wrote:

As a Obama supporter, I think I can honestly say the undivided Jersulem issue is a backtrack in positions.

He made it seem like the Middle East was open for negotiations. He also made it seem like he understood what was at the heart of the matter. One issue is Israel. If he is going to hold firm with the current obvious politics, then I don't see how he is going to get any movement there. If he comes into the negotiation with one firm position like undivided Jerusalem as a precondition, how does he expect anyone to be willing to talk to him? No one wants to talk just to talk, they want a settlement of some kind.

I am disappointed with Obama's middle east statements after all the rhetoric about fairness and fresh starts. The conflict will not end without US pressure, and it seems like none will come from Obama if he personally believes that Arab East Jerusalem should just be gifted to Israel. This is one of the main issues, and these statements show either his inexperience, or his willingness to trade principles for votes.

Is Israel the 51st State in America ? Why do we always have to act like we are the be all and end all. Our own country is in a big enough mess as it is. Why don't we consider the interests of other nations in the world instead of playing (..what others may see as ) favoritism to a particular country?

yeah, his speech is ridiculous...

other than this speech, though, things he said about Palestinians include him saying something along the lines of the Palestinian suffering being self-inflicted.

You said yesterday that you were thinking of supporting Obama until Biden was announced as the VP. Obama gave this speech in June 08?

I was hoping for a VP who was not so radically supportive of Israel. we got Biden, though.

Also, as much as it troubles me with what's happening to the palestinian people, i don't think that it is something that will be up the top of peoples 'why i am or are not voting for a certain cadidate.' They have bigger issues closer to home. We can't be everything to everyone and the sooner we realize that, the better. I know that probably sounds selfish, but we have to start looking after number one sometime yes?

it's a shame, seeing as how you can't deny the fact that the Middle East, northern Africa, the Islamic world, etc etc etc depends heavily on our role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict...

Anon

_outlaw wrote:

it's a shame, seeing as how you can't deny the fact that the Middle East, northern Africa, the Islamic world, etc etc etc depends heavily on our role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict...

I agree with you outlaw.

NMyTree

MrBrian wrote:

Ok let me put it this way,

I worry that when the time comes (and it will) when America is at the Point of attacking another country (probably Iran) Biden and the rest of America will once again (like they so often do) fall for the drama.

Another attack in america like 9/11 and you will see how quickly the American people will dumb themselves down and follow whatever the leader on the TV say's.

I remember clearly how sheep like Americans were after 9/11. I remember it well.

Bingo!

And you couldn't convince anyone that invading Iraq was a HUGE mistake.

No matter what I said, or how much I said; they all simply parroted the White House Press Releases and pointed to 9/11 as a reason to invade Iraq.


Many of us were completely against the invasion of Iraq. Many, many Americans. But the majority were all standing around glassy-eyed, mesmerized and dumbed-down, while waiting for their cues from the White House.

Because as well know, it was Saddam and Iraq that attacked us on 9/11:rolleyes:

Oh wait, it was Saudia Arabia, Pakistan and Syria who attacked us on 9/11. Nevermind.

The true funny part is Russia being in support of the invasion of Iraq and "sharing" their "intelligence" with us:rolleyes:

Face it people, our goverment either got played like a pawn or they were in fact complict in 9/11 and the Iraq " faulty-intelligence".

Russia and several others either set us up or our government was a part of it all.

Unfortunately, in this scenario there truely are no other possibilities or variables.

And a majority of Americans got suckered-in and completely duped on both. Those Americans should be ashamed of themselves.

decides2dream

i am simply happy it is settled...and it is not hillary.

jhinkle1114

I have no real problem with Biden. He's said some stupid stuff in the past, but we all have. Obama needed someone with strong foreign policy experience. Both to help win, and to have next to him as an adviser if he wins.

As for the sheep comment, that was definitely true. Fear puts a lot of power in the governments hands.

But I do find it ironic here when so many people followed Ed sheepishly and voted for Nader the past couple of elections--most of them without really looking up the issues and seeing if they actually agreed with Nader. I didn't, and I was happy as hell Ed didn't endorse him again so I didn't have to hear him promoting him in the PJ and solo shows this summer.

fuck

Pj_Gurl wrote:

I agree with you outlaw.

Ok, I appreciate that. however, how can you agree with me and still vote for Obama? you agree that the situation is very important, you saw for yourself that obama and biden are not particularly 'strong' in that area... why would you still vote for them?

catch22

_outlaw wrote:

Ok, I appreciate that. however, how can you agree with me and still vote for Obama? you agree that the situation is very important, you saw for yourself that obama and biden are not particularly 'strong' in that area... why would you still vote for them?

because who else are you going to vote for? the guy that is going to do a lot WORSE in this area, or the guy that might draw enough votes to make sure the guy that is going to do a lot worse gets elected?

catch22

_outlaw wrote:

sorry, I didn't mean you, I was mainly talking about catch22 and other people making comments like that.

yeah, i've been thinking about that, too... but I just keep thinking: how can I cast a vote for Obama/Biden and then go to my friends living in Gaza and the West Bank and look at them straight in the face like I didn't just vote for a guy who vowed to make their next 4 years a living hell?

what friends in gaza?

you look them in the face and say you kept mccain out of office, who would have made the next 4 years of their lives even worse than hell.

fuck

catch22 wrote:

because who else are you going to vote for? the guy that is going to do a lot WORSE in this area, or the guy that might draw enough votes to make sure the guy that is going to do a lot worse gets elected?

have you not been reading my previous posts? Obama has clearly shown he'll do worse in Israel/Palestine.

actually, I guess I can't necessarily make that claim yet. If McCain picks Lieberman, then the Palestinians are just fucked.

catch22

_outlaw wrote:

have you not been reading my previous posts? Obama has clearly shown he'll do worse in Israel/Palestine.

actually, I guess I can't necessarily make that claim yet. If McCain picks Lieberman, then the Palestinians are just fucked.

mccain won't pick lieberman, it'd be suicide.

but i must have missed those posts. i missed the middle part of the thread. im intruged though and will have to get to that tomorrow, because i cannot even imagine a universe where anyone thinks obama would somehow be worse than mccain when it comes to supporting israel and being pro-war.

fuck

...
just got off the phone with my dad, looks like Obama it is...

drew0

pjalive21 wrote:

Biden, everything Obama has been bashing the administration for this whole time..a "typical" Washington old head...30 years in Washington..so this is the Hope and Change Obama wanted???

piss poor choice...this guarantees a McCain victory in November

bonehead move Obama

Are you serious?

Simply because someone has years and years of experience doesn't mean they can't bring "change" & "hope" to Washington. Is Biden a corrupt politician that puts partisanship before doing what is right for America? Is he some politician with oil companies in his pockets that is screwing over America? Biden is one of the most independent, outspoken voices in the Senate - he will say what he thinks, no matter what side of the aisle he falls and and who he pisses off. He is a middle-class man - his net-worth is well under a million. You have to be politically ignorant if you call Joe Biden "typical". Experience doesn't nullify change.