Hilton slammed in Oslo for Cuba embargo

jlew24asu

MrBrian wrote:

again, you seem so obsessed with proximity.

because its very relevant

MrBrian wrote:

So what if pakistan is whatever many miles away, the fact is american companies pay child workers 1 dollar an hour to make clothes, fair? I call that fucking with them. even our medical tools are maid by fucking kids. I also many times gave examples of american companies in cuba, one of the reasons for the revolution.

the cost of living in those countries determines what they are paid. abuse of child labor is not the fault of american companies. its the countries fault for not enforcing or even making laws against it. and for non children workers, those people im sure are happy to have a job.

MrBrian wrote:

yes, bahams are doing well, but what makes you think the cubans will want cuba to turn into another fucking bahamas?

because the bahmas makes billions from america and the quality of life is much better in the bahmas then cuba

MrBrian wrote:

let them decide their own fate.

great, sadly with a dictator, they cant.

MrBrian wrote:

china with it's huge amounts of human rights violations, bad eh? yet american companies spend billions in china which helps these things go on.

so this is america's fault? doesnt china hold responsiblity for human rights violations?

El_Kabong

jlew24asu wrote:

because the bahmas makes billions from america and the quality of life is much better in the bahmas then cuba


so this is america's fault? doesnt china hold responsiblity for human rights violations?

have ya thought the bahamas is better b/c they don't we have an embargo and give aid to others if they do the same, which is what we did w/ the organization of american states...what we did w/ the coilition of the willing...if you took part you could get new/increased aid, debts forgiven...

china is responsible, but why fund and support something?

jlew24asu

El_Kabong wrote:

have ya thought the bahamas is better b/c they don't we have an embargo and give aid to others if they do the same, which is what we did w/ the organization of american states...what we did w/ the coilition of the willing...if you took part you could get new/increased aid, debts forgiven...

this makes no sense. try again. im interested

MrBrian wrote:

china is responsible, but why fund and support something?

we arent funding or supporting anything.

MrBrian

jlew24asu wrote:

because its very relevant



the cost of living in those countries determines what they are paid. abuse of child labor is not the fault of american companies. its the countries fault for not enforcing or even making laws against it. and for non children workers, those people im sure are happy to have a job.



because the bahmas makes billions from america and the quality of life is much better in the bahmas then cuba



great, sadly with a dictator, they cant.



so this is america's fault? doesnt china hold responsiblity for human rights violations?

yes it is relevant, but you also can not ignore that it is systematic the way these companies work. that's why it's imporant when speaking about them to include as many examples as possible.

If a company is aware of such practices, they should stop doing business with them, it's greed that keeps american companies in those places, if they made americans sew those soccer balls it would mean less profit for the company, so yes fault does lay with the american companies.

yes the bahamas makes lot's of money, so do many other countries that are not americas tourist bitch.

and yes of course china does hold responsibilty for the human rights violations, so do the people who help fund it. you can't supply a killer a gun and bullets, then when that killer goes around shooting people say "hey, I did'nt pull the trigger".

mammasan

jlew24asu wrote:

who's fault is that? castro or america business?



I agree. I do not want US intervention. let cubans figure out shit themselves.




pre-castro days was 50 years ago. times have changed. regardless of what you think or what has happened pre-castro (a long long time ago), american business and investment would do a great deal of good for cuba and the cuban people.

its almost entirly dependent on what type of government and society cubans want for themselves.

First off I walking talking pre-Castro. When the US put pressure on the Cuban government to sell coffee beans, sugar, and fruit at below market price to US corporations so that they could increase their profit. this wasn't benefiting Cubans. It benefited the corrupt Cuban government and it's immediate associates. They where filling their pockets while the average Cuban laborer and small farm owner was getting the shaft. Even after Fidel took over the government the US still fucked over Cubans by initiating hostilities towards the Castro government. Castro had never intended his revolution to be a communist take over of the country. He and his brother, Raul, along with Camillo Cienfuegos had leftist ideals but where not communist. they wanted an agrarian revolution where the farmer owner was in control of setting the price for their goods. After their victory and the souring of relations with the US, which by the way US policy towards Cuba was defined at the time by rich Cuban exiles who prospered under Batistas regime, Castro (with much pressure from Che) finally turned to the Soviet Union for help. Not that I support Castro's decision but when you have 1 of the 2 superpowers threatening you what other option do you have than to turn to the other for help. Had the US not turned hostile and attempted to work with the Castro government we could have averted the Pay of Pigs invasion, the Cuban Missle Crisis, the Cuban Embargo, and we could all be enjoying a mojito on some of the most prestine and beautiful beaches the world has to offer.

jlew24asu

MrBrian wrote:

yes it is relevant, but you also can not ignore that it is systematic the way these companies work. that's why it's imporant when speaking about them to include as many examples as possible.

ok

MrBrian wrote:

If a company is aware of such practices, they should stop doing business with them, it's greed that keeps american companies in those places, if they made americans sew those soccer balls it would mean less profit for the company, so yes fault does lay with the american companies.

I wont say american companies could be more morally responsible about it, but its still the fault of the country for allowing it to happen. american companies brings opportunities to those workers. they are forced to work.

MrBrian wrote:

yes the bahamas makes lot's of money, so do many other countries that are not americas tourist bitch.

not in the Caribbean. hence why proximity is so important

jlew24asu

mammasan wrote:

First off I walking talking pre-Castro. When the US put pressure on the Cuban government to sell coffee beans, sugar, and fruit at below market price to US corporations so that they could increase their profit. this wasn't benefiting Cubans. It benefited the corrupt Cuban government and it's immediate associates.

exactly, governments fault. not america

mammasan wrote:

They where filling their pockets while the average Cuban laborer and small farm owner was getting the shaft. Even after Fidel took over the government the US still fucked over Cubans by initiating hostilities towards the Castro government. Castro had never intended his revolution to be a communist take over of the country. He and his brother, Raul, along with Camillo Cienfuegos had leftist ideals but where not communist. they wanted an agrarian revolution where the farmer owner was in control of setting the price for their goods. After their victory and the souring of relations with the US, which by the way US policy towards Cuba was defined at the time by rich Cuban exiles who prospered under Batistas regime, Castro (with much pressure from Che) finally turned to the Soviet Union for help.

that was then. 50 years ago. I may be wrong but I think things would be different now.

mammasan wrote:

Not that I support Castro's decision but when you have 1 of the 2 superpowers threatening you what other option do you have than to turn to the other for help. Had the US not turned hostile and attempted to work with the Castro government we could have averted the Pay of Pigs invasion, the Cuban Missle Crisis, the Cuban Embargo, and we could all be enjoying a mojito on some of the most prestine and beautiful beaches the world has to offer.

I wish as much as you that I could enjoy a mojito on the beach. cuba is a beatiful place. I want the embargo to end.

the only point I am trying to make in this thread is that american investment you greatly benefit the cuban economy. it would trickle down to many cubans. IF they have a free capitalistic economy. thats up to them, I hope. with a dictator, however, that will never happen.

mammasan

jlew24asu wrote:

the only point I am trying to make in this thread is that american investment you greatly benefit the cuban economy. it would trickle down to many cubans. IF they have a free capitalistic economy. thats up to them, I hope. with a dictator, however, that will never happen.

The problem is that Cuba has never had a free capitalist economy. They where always at the mercy of a greater power. First it was Spain, then the US, and finally the Soviet Union. Cuba has always been someone's bitch, I guess that's the best way I can describe it. You made a point that it was the Cuban governments cfault that the Cuban people where taken advantage of, but that government was enabled by US support. And yes that was 50 years ago and things may have changed, but I'm unwilling to take the chance. Like I said in an earlier post Cuba for Cubans. Cuban owned business, with cubans controlling their economy without undue foreign influence. I also see a renewed interest in Cuba by our government not because of some need to spread democracy but because of a large oil reserve found in the North Cuba Basin.

When the embardgo is lifted maybe we can all catch a PJ show at the Teatro Garcia Lorca in Havana and then head to the beach at Varadero for those mojitos.

jlew24asu

mammasan wrote:

The problem is that Cuba has never had a free capitalist economy. They where always at the mercy of a greater power. First it was Spain, then the US, and finally the Soviet Union. Cuba has always been someone's bitch, I guess that's the best way I can describe it. You made a point that it was the Cuban governments cfault that the Cuban people where taken advantage of, but that government was enabled by US support. And yes that was 50 years ago and things may have changed, but I'm unwilling to take the chance. Like I said in an earlier post Cuba for Cubans. Cuban owned business, with cubans controlling their economy without undue foreign influence. I also see a renewed interest in Cuba by our government not because of some need to spread democracy but because of a large oil reserve found in the North Cuba Basin.

When the embardgo is lifted maybe we can all catch a PJ show at the Teatro Garcia Lorca in Havana and then head to the beach at Varadero for those mojitos.

I'll be there dude. Mojitos on me

mammasan

jlew24asu wrote:

I'll be there dude. Mojitos on me

Deal and I'll treat to some ropa veija con congre and yuca.

MrBrian

jlew24asu wrote:

with a dictator, however, that will never happen.

Yes of course.

flywallyfly

jlew24asu wrote:

bullshit. if americans did business with cuba alot of cubans would be much better off financially.

I guess you support Sheehan since she is spending dollars for the trickle down effect you are all on about! Jlew and Sheehan have common ground, who woulda known.

HAVANA, Cuba (AP) -- American "peace mom" Cindy Sheehan called for the closure of the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as she and other activists arrived in Cuba on Saturday to draw attention to the nearly 400 terror suspects held at the remote site.

Sheehan is among 12 human rights and anti-war activists who will travel across this Caribbean island next week, arriving at the main gate of the Guantanamo base in eastern Cuba on Thursday -- five years after the first prisoners were flown in.

"Anyone who knows me knows that I am not afraid of anything," Sheehan said when asked about the possibility of U.S. sanctions for traveling to communist-run Cuba, which remains under an American trade embargo.

"What is more important is the inhumanity that my government is perpetrating at Guantanamo," she told reporters.

Sheehan, 49, of Vacaville, California, became an anti-war activist known as the "peace mom" after losing her 24-year-old son, Casey, in Iraq in April 2004.

She drew international attention after camping outside President Bush's Texas ranch to protest the war in Iraq, and has been arrested numerous times for trespassing.

Sheehan arrived in Havana early Saturday evening with trip organizer Medea Benjamin of the California nonprofit groups Global Exchange and CODEPINK: Women for Peace.

Benjamin said group members believed they were exempt from U.S. travel restrictions on Cuba because they were traveling as professional human rights activists who will attend a daylong international conference in the Cuban city of Guantanamo on Wednesday, the eve of their protest.

The U.S. military still holds about 395 men on suspicion of links to al Qaeda or the Taliban, including about 85 who have been cleared to be released or transferred to other countries.

El_Kabong

El_Kabong wrote:

well, in india us companies privatize water so it's illegal to even collect rain water...that's just for starters...then there's how comapnies like coke have severely polluted the water system there and this is a country where some ppl wash their clothes in the river...

nothing to say, jlew?

jlew24asu

El_Kabong wrote:

well, in india us companies privatize water so it's illegal to even collect rain water...that's just for starters...then there's how comapnies like coke have severely polluted the water system there and this is a country where some ppl wash their clothes in the river...

you are wasting my time but since you require a response from me i will amuse you.

I can make up bullshit too. none of this is fact. spare me the 911research.net quote ok

El_Kabong wrote:

what does it matter how much 'aid' we give?

it should matter. we give alot

El_Kabong wrote:

it's just a bribe to keep things running the way they are supposed to ie; us companies profit. we give over a billion in 'aid' to colombia, yet their military has a loooot of rape cases against it....hmmm, raping while holding us weapons...but it's only saddam's rape's we need worry about, right? the aid is payment to keep letting us oil companies make the profits while the ppl whose land it is gets treated like shit, like peasants....

you really dont care about people. you are only interested in making the US look bad in whatever they do.

why do you live here? you obviously are not proud to call yourself an american.

I sure am.

El_Kabong wrote:

i think you need to get over yourself, dude, you act so hostile and dismissive to any point of view that contradicts your own.

get some tissues at walmart on me ok.

jlew24asu

flywallyfly wrote:

I guess you support Sheehan since she is spending dollars for the trickle down effect you are all on about! Jlew and Sheehan have common ground, who woulda known.

more proof of the lack of intelligence on this board. cindy has nothing to do with any discussion about cuba. stop wasting my time. its worth alot more then yours

flywallyfly

jlew24asu wrote:

move proof of the lack of intelligence on this board.

This quote stands by itself.

jlew24asu wrote:

cindy has nothing to do with any discussion about cuba. stop wasting my time. its worth alot more then yours

LMAO at you. You sure do think you are better than everyone on this board. Arrogance doesnt equal worth. As for wasting your valuable time -- (1) I do not believe anyone on here has forced you to respond to any comments
(2) You sure do spend a ton of time on here posting at a record rate.

jlew24asu

flywallyfly wrote:

This quote stands by itself.



LMAO at you. You sure do think you are better than everyone on this board. Arrogance doesnt equal worth. As for wasting your valuable time -- (1) I do not believe anyone on here has forced you to respond to any comments
(2) You sure do spend a ton of time on here posting at a record rate.

sorry im in a bad mood today

El_Kabong

jlew24asu wrote:

you are wasting my time but since you require a response from me i will amuse you.

I can make up bullshit too. none of this is fact. spare me the 911research.net quote ok

here,s a whole list of sites on it
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=india+privatize+water

<hmmm, very first hit is 'Privatization of Water in India Ignites Water Wars'>

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=india+privatization+water

i'm sure none of these links will be enough for you, you'll claim their all biased or making up lies like you just did to me...on the 2nd link on the 2nd page is something from Stanford College on it...on hte 3rd page something from the University of Texas, something else from University of Michigan...

they even tried to do it in Bolivia

the fact is nothing will ever be good enough for you and it's obvious you never look into things...amazing what you can find just by googling 'india privatize water'

jlew24asu wrote:

it should matter. we give alot

so they should not care that they water is owned by US companies <when they did this in Bolivia prices rose 500%> b/c their government receives aid??? that makes no sense at all

jlew24asu wrote:

you really dont care about people. you are only interested in making the US look bad in whatever they do.

wow, you have me figured out :rolleyes:

jlew24asu wrote:

why do you live here? you obviously are not proud to call yourself an american.

I sure am.

to piss you off

jlew24asu wrote:

get some tissues at walmart on me ok.

if you need me to pick you up some tissues i'd be happy to, but not from wal-mart

El_Kabong

flywallyfly wrote:

This quote stands by itself.



LMAO at you. You sure do think you are better than everyone on this board. Arrogance doesnt equal worth. As for wasting your valuable time -- (1) I do not believe anyone on here has forced you to respond to any comments
(2) You sure do spend a ton of time on here posting at a record rate.

tell me about it! they can never debate the points, they can only make little personal attacks

mammasan

El_Kabong wrote:

tell me about it! they can never debate the points, they can only make little personal attacks

You know what I find interesting. All of this renewed interest in Cuba and our altruistic mission to bring democracy to these people just happens to coincide with the discovery of a large oil field in the North Cuban Basin. I'm sure that the discovery of this oil field has nothing to do with our foreign policy in relation to Cuba.